Avilo has definitely wound up in a vicious cycle where his actions bring more and more hate which in turn makes him behave even worse. At this point the only way out for him is to let it all go, walk away and begin again with something else in life. Which might be possible with help from those who truly know him.
The only other constructive intervention actually possible would be that Twitch ban him once and for all - that may sound like punishment, but continuing streaming really only puts Avilo deeper and deeper in the shit. This has to be obvious for anyone who's been following him over the past few years.
Regardless of outer influence and stress from constant troll attacks etc., he actually is committing serious acts of harassment which will only make things worse for himself. During his last stream he even played private voice mail from Atira and screen captured vid from his Discord conversations with her, live in front of hundreds of viewers. No matter how sorry we should be feeling for him, that shit will still be completely unacceptable, and continues to hurt other people.
He needs to first of all get off Twitch, and leave his position as a public person within the gaming community. Then he can address reconstructing his life. Currently there's just too much inertia from his past years as a "controversial" person, I don't see him overcoming that in any other way.
He's certainly not the only one who bears blame in this situation becoming what it is. But as long as he himself doesn't acknowledge the mistakes he actually has made, and forgives himself as well as asks the forgiveness of those he's damaged, he will never break free from this endless cycle of paranoia and self-centredness. Us having pity on him will do part of the job. But the main effort will have to come from himself.
Completely agree with all you're saying. My main point is that the antisocial and sensationalist behavior of some people who are constantly poking him to make fun of his dire situation isn't helping. It makes me a bit angry at them because if they were honest they'd at least admit to their entertainment at his expense since he's become an easy target to dislike in some parts of this community. And that's just disgusting when a bunch of merciless cowards keep kicking and prodding somebody who's already lying on the floor. This is as close as the sc2 community gets to a lynching mob and I don't appreciate our community like this. If you like avilo or not, he clearly deserves better than that. If you want to help him, be kind. If you don't want to be kind, at least ignore the man. If everybody did that, there'd be only people left who can help lift him up to the point where he's gonna be able to help himself better and he would probably have a way easier time stopping that "vicious cycle" stuff that you referred to. Of course his decisions and their consequences are still his responsibility. Still, people can either take a supportive or at least indifferent stance towards him or undermine any kind of development for the better because they're hateful, trolling, baiting, w/e. Unfortunately there's a ton of people who think it's cool to hate on avilo (I know a few of them..) and some are making weird excuses to try and justify their behavior which I find hypocritical. That this attitude of "let's all hate on that one guy" is relatively widespread and surprisingly well-accepted in this community is something that we do have control over and that I argue we should change. Because that's just basic decency and everybody deserves that much when things get serious. And yeah, as much as I enjoyed his sc2 stream when it was about playing the game and accusing people of maphacks it's probably in everybody's best interest if he gave it a permanent or at least prolonged rest until things have changed.
avilo isn't a victim, he's the one that lashes out angrily out at everyone spewing insults and hacking accusations every time he loses, spam harasses females and apparently thinks these said females are his girlfriend, and in general behaves like an ass. so if people crap on him, its cause he brought it on himself. now i agree that avilo is awesome because the "heel" in wrestling is a vital role that brings views to a game, and avilo is a great heel. except it turns out he's not acting, he actually is harassing women, and then his clueless fans like some of the people int his thread think he's innocent and that these women are actually interested in him LOL
avilo is the poor man's idra, except idra was actually successful, has lots more money, doesn't live at home with mom, and doesn't molest women online, and not a virgin
On March 20 2019 06:01 uiotui wrote: atira and avilo are both victims in the ongoing drama of the e-sport -uh- world of 'don't talk during games guys'
Yeah it's getting totally ridiculous that people can't seem to figure out that they're just throwing wood on the fire, and these two are benefiting immensely from it.
I think that's exactly why they do it.
No, it's not. how old are you guys? 15? If you have one active brain cell it should be obvious to you that atira is suffering immensly from this shit... She has two kids. Do you really believe she would let a 31yo unemployed, ruthless, aggressiv momma's boy without any social skills even near her and her kids? A guy who's lost any connection to the real life? A (31yo!!!!) guy who always streams with his door open so his parents can check on him ? (Which they do regularly)
Enough of this defending avilo! He doesnt give a f*** about other human beings. He is abusive and manipulativ. Two days ago he was harassing atira online....again... for hours.. This GIRL HAS TWO KIDS, for god's sake! She called the cops on him! She blocked him everywhere, yet he cant let go!!! And he just cant do all of that in private. NO! He has to put it all online ... Thats what a teenager would do, but not a 31yo adult! It's disgusting (btw: I am 35!)
And one more thing to his starcraft skills / accusations of sniping / cheating: This has guy has been playing sc2 fulltime (!!!!!!) for 8 years and he is stuck at around 5k mmr.... Let ... that.... sink ..... in!!!! If I had spend so much time on sc2 I would be GM for sure (at least on NA, which is relatively easy to do). 8 years of fulltime Sc2. 5k mmr..... Do I have to say more?
If it meant an extra fluid income from a twitch stream, yes i'm sure she wouldn't at all be unhappy about.
But this is the kind of shit I am talking about, you're just making the problem worse buying into this drama.
avilo isn't a victim, he's the one that lashes out angrily out at everyone spewing insults and hacking accusations every time he loses, spam harasses females and apparently thinks these said females are his girlfriend, and in general behaves like an ass. so if people crap on him, its cause he brought it on himself.
He may have made some decisions that people think are bad, including (at a more harmless level) building a stream around the concept of being a whining, flaming, accusing-people-of-hacking mech terran. If you've been playing that role forever like he has then people expect you to consistently behave that way and people tend to fulfil that kind of social expectation, especially because the other people try to actively push them in that role. It's hard to get out of there. And as for the insulting, that's part of what this perceived role now entails. Obviously whoever gets insulted is not gonna like it and some may fire back, perpetuating this kind of destructive exchange. If there's hundreds of viewers at the side who think it's fun and games and spur this kind of behavior further on then that's an exacerbating factor and avilo is definitely a victim of that. It's not like you can't be the culprit in one regard and a victim in another.
Yes, he should stop harrassing and threatening women (or anybody else for that matter) at once. And the community should stop being a pack of hysterical hyenas forming an audience in front of which he feels an expectation to perform. Under that kind of pressure people can get desperate and do even more stupid stuff. It's not helping him or anybody else, the only thing it's good for is for some selfish entertainment. And I don't think it's entertaining seeing people suffer like that.
On April 03 2019 03:42 SoupedUpHellion wrote: Yo, y'all need to add Avilo back to the sidebar....stop being petty.
It has nothing to do with being petty. Its action=reaction, his behaviour caused the removal of his stream, not the otherway around. Im suprised that they even let this topic open...
I used to watch Avilo, really regularly for a period. I enjoyed the heel persona he had, but also he did legitimately play a different style of Terran to most other stuff that I could watch. I was in a pretty bad place at the time, and avilo's 'fuck the world' attitude dovetailed with that considerably.
It appears checking him out recently that this is worse, without excusing what he himself does he's trapped in a loop of negativity where his whining is the draw, maybe he's playing a character, maybe or not and then his audience comes just for that and he's stuck doing it so that it brings the worst out of him.
You see it pretty regularly in folks who form an audience for 'anti SJW' content whereupon it starts attracting people who aren't just there to laugh or get annoyed at the excesses of that group, but more and more people who straight up just don't like certain groups of people. Then said content creator makes a video that goes against the general views of the second group and they go mental (say when some guy Thunderfoot made a video that was pro EU)
I don't know the guy obviously, but I wouldn't really want to be stuck in a loop like that. If I was Grubby, where he's super nice and positive to a fault and his audience usually reflect this, hitting that 'stream now' button would be something I'd look forward to and I'd get to experience the best side of being a public figure in that sense.
Avilo, through his own fault and that of others as well, I'd be bloody dreading hitting that button for another session. I'm with RaccyG in that taking at least a break would probably be the best thing for the guy's headspace right now
On April 05 2019 02:36 Wombat_NI wrote: I used to watch Avilo, really regularly for a period. I enjoyed the heel persona he had, but also he did legitimately play a different style of Terran to most other stuff that I could watch. I was in a pretty bad place at the time, and avilo's 'fuck the world' attitude dovetailed with that considerably.
It appears checking him out recently that this is worse, without excusing what he himself does he's trapped in a loop of negativity where his whining is the draw, maybe he's playing a character, maybe or not and then his audience comes just for that and he's stuck doing it so that it brings the worst out of him.
You see it pretty regularly in folks who form an audience for 'anti SJW' content whereupon it starts attracting people who aren't just there to laugh or get annoyed at the excesses of that group, but more and more people who straight up just don't like certain groups of people. Then said content creator makes a video that goes against the general views of the second group and they go mental (say when some guy Thunderfoot made a video that was pro EU)
I don't know the guy obviously, but I wouldn't really want to be stuck in a loop like that. If I was Grubby, where he's super nice and positive to a fault and his audience usually reflect this, hitting that 'stream now' button would be something I'd look forward to and I'd get to experience the best side of being a public figure in that sense.
Avilo, through his own fault and that of others as well, I'd be bloody dreading hitting that button for another session. I'm with RaccyG in that taking at least a break would probably be the best thing for the guy's headspace right now
This isn't really a chicken or egg scenario. Avilo was a shitter, and this attracted a particular audience. It's not an act, he has always been this way.
On April 05 2019 19:18 StabiloBoss20 wrote: i tend to agree.
… as long as i don’t tune in CNN and see him going into a school with a gun. then it will be all „we should have known“.
Almost all of these kinds of shootings are performed by boys/men growing up in father-less homes. He gets his "violence catharsis experience" by playing video games. If anything, Video Games make people less violent.. not more violent.
Based on my studies of these kinds of shootings and serial murderers such as Ted Bundy, Bruce Maccarthur, and Aileen Wournos I'd say the probability of Avilo becoming a mass murderer is very close to zero.
i think Avilo needs his own theme song. I propose "Don't Stand So Close To Me" by The Police.
TL; DR : don't worry man: Avilo gets off on winning RTS games not physically injuring real-people in the real-world.
yeah right avilo would be a poster child for the "incel" movement. angry, entitled toward women he has never even met in real life, most likely never been with a woman in his entire life, blames all his problems on everyone else. the only thing he has going for him is his stream revenue. if he got banned from stream, he would be unemployed and is basically completely unemployable. i sure as hell wouldn't want him on my team. nobody wants toxic people who stalk women on their teams. so he would totally fit the profile of an incel shooter
On April 05 2019 04:07 ProTech wrote: I genuinely don't understand why you guys are on about the topic of " what kind of person he is "
Why does that matter? If you don't like the stream, ignore it and move on to the next.
The whole idea that someone has to be a decent human being makes absolutely no sense when it comes to twitch. refer to tyler 1
Maybe. Personally I used to watch his stream years and years ago, I only recently reinstalled Twitch so I could watch Grubby on my stream, figured I’d check what some of my old followed streams.
Go to avilo’s and I’m confronted with some drama that I’m completely unaware of and a dude who is obviously distressed about it. Came to this thread out of curiosity to fill in those gaps.
I enjoyed some of the whining, not going to lie about that. I also enjoyed that he stubbornly eschewed conventional wisdom and strats and tried to make his own stubborn desire to make mech work. As an extremely fucking stubborn person myself in pursuing what I think ‘should’ work, I genuinely admired that facet of his approach to an RTS where far too many players just copy convention and sidestep any kind of strategic exploration whatsoever.
I don’t hate the guy at all, I don’t even think he’s necessarily a horrible human at heart or anything like that either. I don’t think being locked into a job that requires you to be toxic, for an audience that want that and are themselves toxic is good for the guy over a sustained period.
Whatever, it’s just my two irrelevant cents, I think the guy needs a break from that loop and it will benefit him mentally, others are free to disagree.
Why shouldn’t being a decent human being come in to it anyway? Having an extremely toxic persona on Twitch maybe, ideally not. If that starts to rope in other people into harassment and other such things then how is that acceptable?
On April 05 2019 04:07 ProTech wrote: I genuinely don't understand why you guys are on about the topic of " what kind of person he is "
Why does that matter? If you don't like the stream, ignore it and move on to the next.
The whole idea that someone has to be a decent human being makes absolutely no sense when it comes to twitch. refer to tyler 1
Maybe. Personally I used to watch his stream years and years ago, I only recently reinstalled Twitch so I could watch Grubby on my stream, figured I’d check what some of my old followed streams.
Go to avilo’s and I’m confronted with some drama that I’m completely unaware of and a dude who is obviously distressed about it. Came to this thread out of curiosity to fill in those gaps.
I enjoyed some of the whining, not going to lie about that. I also enjoyed that he stubbornly eschewed conventional wisdom and strats and tried to make his own stubborn desire to make mech work. As an extremely fucking stubborn person myself in pursuing what I think ‘should’ work, I genuinely admired that facet of his approach to an RTS where far too many players just copy convention and sidestep any kind of strategic exploration whatsoever.
I don’t hate the guy at all, I don’t even think he’s necessarily a horrible human at heart or anything like that either. I don’t think being locked into a job that requires you to be toxic, for an audience that want that and are themselves toxic is good for the guy over a sustained period.
Whatever, it’s just my two irrelevant cents, I think the guy needs a break from that loop and it will benefit him mentally, others are free to disagree.
Why shouldn’t being a decent human being come in to it anyway? Having an extremely toxic persona on Twitch maybe, ideally not. If that starts to rope in other people into harassment and other such things then how is that acceptable?
What people don't understand is that streams get boring in starcraft 2. Everyone is trying to do the same thing as the next and no one is genuinely entertaining.
It's all game commentary and the game itself, this is why avilo has viewers, this is why I do well on my stream.
We give people a different perspective, and that's what starcraft needs to not be in the dumpster when it comes to viewership on twitch.
Now that avilo is gone from TL that drama will no longer be in spotlight and thus killing the overall viewership at a time where starcraft needs all the viewership it can get, GOOD OR NOT.
lol he still can't get the hint. WHY AM I BANNED IN HER CHAT STILL??? he still thinks its the mods and that she wants anything to do with him looooool even after she reported to police
just wow. cept that stalking is not funny. he should be jailed if he keeps up the harassment or tries to harass irl
lol he still can't get the hint. WHY AM I BANNED IN HER CHAT STILL??? he still thinks its the mods and that she wants anything to do with him looooool even after she reported to police
just wow. cept that stalking is not funny. he should be jailed if he keeps up the harassment or tries to harass irl
Just watched a bit of it but he does seem pretty delusional. How does he not get it?
On April 05 2019 04:07 ProTech wrote: I genuinely don't understand why you guys are on about the topic of " what kind of person he is "
Why does that matter? If you don't like the stream, ignore it and move on to the next.
The whole idea that someone has to be a decent human being makes absolutely no sense when it comes to twitch. refer to tyler 1
Maybe. Personally I used to watch his stream years and years ago, I only recently reinstalled Twitch so I could watch Grubby on my stream, figured I’d check what some of my old followed streams.
Go to avilo’s and I’m confronted with some drama that I’m completely unaware of and a dude who is obviously distressed about it. Came to this thread out of curiosity to fill in those gaps.
I enjoyed some of the whining, not going to lie about that. I also enjoyed that he stubbornly eschewed conventional wisdom and strats and tried to make his own stubborn desire to make mech work. As an extremely fucking stubborn person myself in pursuing what I think ‘should’ work, I genuinely admired that facet of his approach to an RTS where far too many players just copy convention and sidestep any kind of strategic exploration whatsoever.
I don’t hate the guy at all, I don’t even think he’s necessarily a horrible human at heart or anything like that either. I don’t think being locked into a job that requires you to be toxic, for an audience that want that and are themselves toxic is good for the guy over a sustained period.
Whatever, it’s just my two irrelevant cents, I think the guy needs a break from that loop and it will benefit him mentally, others are free to disagree.
Why shouldn’t being a decent human being come in to it anyway? Having an extremely toxic persona on Twitch maybe, ideally not. If that starts to rope in other people into harassment and other such things then how is that acceptable?
What people don't understand is that streams get boring in starcraft 2. Everyone is trying to do the same thing as the next and no one is genuinely entertaining.
It's all game commentary and the game itself, this is why avilo has viewers, this is why I do well on my stream.
We give people a different perspective, and that's what starcraft needs to not be in the dumpster when it comes to viewership on twitch.
Now that avilo is gone from TL that drama will no longer be in spotlight and thus killing the overall viewership at a time where starcraft needs all the viewership it can get, GOOD OR NOT.
Starcraft is Starcraft, is it worth keeping alive if it needs such drama to do it?
I do agree with your point, variety is the spice of life after all and especially as many still stream without even a bit of commentary it can get very samey.
The Idra era was great as his foibles were a great counterpoint to many of the conventions of most other notable players at the time. I’m watching WC3 again lately and ToD has some great meltdowns on balance on the regular.
Both of these guys kept most of that purely to the games itself and contributed to the community in various different ways as well. Neither did certain things that avilo does, especially lately.
TL has way stricter moderation standards than most comparable communities, and thus I find is one of the better ones out there, especially the forums.
I’m not even sure how much traffic they’d redirect to scilo’s stream anyway.
On the inverse side, what if someone checks out SC2 for the first time on Twitch and is put off the game entirely? A pure hypothetical but drama isn’t always going to be a net gain for a community as some people actively avoid drama and negativity
EPT
