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Hope so, Adelscott has a weird style you have to adapt to :/
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On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott.
Amen to that.
I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ.
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You can watch it on the millenium web tv( but in french) , + Show Spoiler +won 2-0 , goes in play-off!
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On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ.
Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss.
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And Naniwa takes out Adelscott 2-0! GJ! :D
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On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss.
But it's actually almost impossible withouit an all-in to push a third base for the protoss, which isn't the case for the Zerg.
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On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss.
That's why I said 'sometimes'. I'm not crying op or anything and I realize that zerg is far from unbeatable and most of Naniwa's losses are because of him being actually bad at the matchup compared to his other matchups. What I think is stupid is how many units can zerg safely throw away and remax with a slightly different composition without losing a game. By the time the opponent maxes and gets a favorable comp, zerg can have a completely different army.
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On June 18 2012 04:00 Mindor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss. That's why I said 'sometimes'. I'm not crying op or anything and I realize that zerg is far from unbeatable and most of Naniwa's losses are because of him being actually bad at the matchup compared to his other matchups. What I'm complaining about is how many units can zerg safely throw away and remax with a slightly different composition without losing a game.
Sure a zerg can remax fast. But I hope you are aware of if a zerg just throws his army away he can't often remax fast enough and will often die to the counter push of protoss. Saying that a zerg can just throw army after army and remax which is what you mean by saying that is retarded.
On June 18 2012 03:56 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss. But it's actually almost impossible withouit an all-in to push a third base for the protoss, which isn't the case for the Zerg.
Wrong. A protoss can do light pressure and expand, stargate, stalker zealot and warp prism are examples of such pushes that arn't all-in. Though if a zerg does any pressure that's below 70 drones it's an all-in (qouted by NightEnd.) So if a zerg does the stephano style roach push and the protoss holds it it's not like the zerg hasn't lost anything.
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On June 18 2012 04:01 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 04:00 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss. That's why I said 'sometimes'. I'm not crying op or anything and I realize that zerg is far from unbeatable and most of Naniwa's losses are because of him being actually bad at the matchup compared to his other matchups. What I'm complaining about is how many units can zerg safely throw away and remax with a slightly different composition without losing a game. Sure a zerg can remax fast. But I hope you are aware of if a zerg just throws his army away he can't often remax fast enough and will often die to the counter push of protoss. Saying that a zerg can just throw army after army and remax which is what you mean by saying that is retarded.
A zerg can throw away an army... Spine crawlers good unit. If you save the infestors zerg can continue to throw away armies.
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Let's stop balance discussion, at least in this thread, and let's beeing happy for Naniwa who moves on!
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On June 18 2012 04:03 Abusion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 04:01 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 04:00 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss. That's why I said 'sometimes'. I'm not crying op or anything and I realize that zerg is far from unbeatable and most of Naniwa's losses are because of him being actually bad at the matchup compared to his other matchups. What I'm complaining about is how many units can zerg safely throw away and remax with a slightly different composition without losing a game. Sure a zerg can remax fast. But I hope you are aware of if a zerg just throws his army away he can't often remax fast enough and will often die to the counter push of protoss. Saying that a zerg can just throw army after army and remax which is what you mean by saying that is retarded. A zerg can throw away an army... Spine crawlers good unit. If you save the infestors zerg can continue to throw away armies.
Static defence will never be enough to take on an entire army. Because you have to cover alot of places, their attack speed isn't high enough to benefit as much from being in numbers. Infestors run out of energy and spines and infestors won't be able to hold off a protoss army that has colossi or immortals sprinkled in them.
On June 18 2012 04:08 Lazzi wrote:
Let's stop balance discussion, at least in this thread, and let's beeing happy for Naniwa who moves on!
Yes, who is he up against next if he wins vs adelscott?
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Okay we're going waaaaay offtopic. I don't get how you can argue that zerg has to be as cost efficient as the other 2 races since pretty much every single game with a zerg in it has the zerg sitting on 2 more bases than any other race and that's when they are even...But I retract everything I said, you're right.
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On June 18 2012 04:10 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 04:03 Abusion wrote:On June 18 2012 04:01 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 04:00 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss. That's why I said 'sometimes'. I'm not crying op or anything and I realize that zerg is far from unbeatable and most of Naniwa's losses are because of him being actually bad at the matchup compared to his other matchups. What I'm complaining about is how many units can zerg safely throw away and remax with a slightly different composition without losing a game. Sure a zerg can remax fast. But I hope you are aware of if a zerg just throws his army away he can't often remax fast enough and will often die to the counter push of protoss. Saying that a zerg can just throw army after army and remax which is what you mean by saying that is retarded. A zerg can throw away an army... Spine crawlers good unit. If you save the infestors zerg can continue to throw away armies. Static defence will never be enough to take on an entire army. Because you have to cover alot of places, their attack speed isn't high enough to benefit as much from being in numbers. Infestors run out of energy and spines and infestors won't be able to hold off a protoss army that has colossi or immortals sprinkled in them. Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 04:08 Lazzi wrote:
Let's stop balance discussion, at least in this thread, and let's beeing happy for Naniwa who moves on! Yes, who is he up against next if he wins vs adelscott?
We don't know, if Keen wins against Livezerg , Naniwa finishes first of his group. If Keen loses, Naniwa he's second. Then it depends on his ranking and there will be a play-off with a draw. So we won't know until the whole group stages is finished.
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On June 18 2012 04:01 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 04:00 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss. That's why I said 'sometimes'. I'm not crying op or anything and I realize that zerg is far from unbeatable and most of Naniwa's losses are because of him being actually bad at the matchup compared to his other matchups. What I'm complaining about is how many units can zerg safely throw away and remax with a slightly different composition without losing a game. Sure a zerg can remax fast. But I hope you are aware of if a zerg just throws his army away he can't often remax fast enough and will often die to the counter push of protoss. Saying that a zerg can just throw army after army and remax which is what you mean by saying that is retarded. Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 03:56 Lazzi wrote:On June 18 2012 03:53 Olsson wrote:On June 18 2012 03:44 Mindor wrote:On June 18 2012 03:32 Lazzi wrote:
okay, if Naniwa wins against Adelscott, he goes through, if he loses he's out. But he'll rape Adelscott. Amen to that. I agree that Nani's vZ is a lot less thought out and confident than his vP or vT, but it's still stupid sometimes how zerg just has to rush lategame and a-move some broodlords to win while toss has to scout out the exact army composition and counter it unit by unit to win a late game vZ. Right thats a bold and completely wrong statement. Both sides of the late game are very delicate and sensitive. Protoss needs to hit feedbacks, have a good position and hit the vortex. While zerg needs to move up slowly, keep his units spread, his fungals, target fire and just like the protoss needs to have a good unit mixture, a balance of bl's, corruptors and infestors. Besides from doing that up to the point of getting to the late game you need to survive the death timing push of protoss which is hard to hold, you can't just rush up to hive and get bl's at 15-16 if you're even with a protoss. But it's actually almost impossible withouit an all-in to push a third base for the protoss, which isn't the case for the Zerg. Wrong. A protoss can do light pressure and expand, stargate, stalker zealot and warp prism are examples of such pushes that arn't all-in. Though if a zerg does any pressure that's below 70 drones it's an all-in (qouted by NightEnd.) So if a zerg does the stephano style roach push and the protoss holds it it's not like the zerg hasn't lost anything.
lol, but that is exactly what Zerg metagame is now. You max 200/200 roaches at 12 minutes and start throwing yourself at the Protoss until either he is dead or you get your infestor spine wall up -.-
Oh damnit, i was going to reply awhile ago then i got a ladder game. Then when alt tabbing i instantly hit the reply button without noticing -.- Off topic sorry
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Gl hf naniwa  I think that you're the best player at dh def. and i hope for a win, and i hope you'll beat stephano somewhere along the way too  Go king of the north!
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Canada1169 Posts
Bad news, he plays Slivko tomorrow then either Dima or Protosser if he wins.
Lots of PvZ 
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Ouch, Nani has 8 hours to find his long lost vZ wisdom, he's up against Slivko first...
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I think Naniwa should pull through to at least the semis.
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the problem is that he gets vz in both games before semis
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EPT
