EPTThe Liquid`TLO Fan Club - Page 10
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LF9
United States537 Posts
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On March 28 2010 06:58 LF9 wrote: I hope he proves me wrong. I am quite sure you hope he doesn't prove you wrong | ||
CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
On March 28 2010 06:40 LF9 wrote: I wasn't aware that tone was conveyed via black and white text. feel free to start posting in white. plenty of us would be grateful, since it would be easier to skip over your nonsense | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
This is TLO fanclub thread. Get your hate outa here. I am in love with TheLittleOne. | ||
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Spike
United States1392 Posts
LF9 - What is your ladder id? | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On March 28 2010 06:55 LF9 wrote: The advantage of random applies even if you play safe; one might argue it is even more pronounced in this case. The random player plays solid macro game, knowing his opponents race, and the other guy attempts to do the same but naturally MUST invest a bit more into scouting and preparation for the myriad of possibilities that accompany playing random. The random player knows his gameplan and can invest all his resources into executing it, while the other guy is playing in the dark and must prepare for the worst. What don't you guys understand about this? What do you diagree on? Are you saying that there is no advantage to random? I don't play with a maphack, sorry. When I play against a random player I have no idea what race he is until I get a scout into his base. I agree that it gives an advantage, but let's stop the exaggerations shall we? All the players in this tourney, although hand-picked were actually good, and they all wanted to win. If random was a considerable enough advantage in this game then they would have picked random. Maybe one day when the game is already released, and much more is understood about standard play Random will become an issue, but while so few have gotten to the top of either tournaments OR ladders by going random, I'd say that this is evidence that the current difficulty to knowing how to play all 3 factions is at least statistically outweighing the advantage provided by random, which makes your attempts to discredit his skills and those of his competition unwarranted at best, and imo pretty pathetic. | ||
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
On March 28 2010 06:55 LF9 wrote: The advantage of random applies even if you play safe; one might argue it is even more pronounced in this case. The random player plays solid macro game, knowing his opponents race, and the other guy attempts to do the same but naturally MUST invest a bit more into scouting and preparation for the myriad of possibilities that accompany playing random. The random player knows his gameplan and can invest all his resources into executing it, while the other guy is playing in the dark and must prepare for the worst. What don't you guys understand about this? What do you diagree on? Are you saying that there is no advantage to random? I don't play with a maphack, sorry. When I play against a random player I have no idea what race he is until I get a scout into his base. I think you're putting to much value in what the players lost against TLO when they had to scout earlier to find his race. Random does give TLO some surprise factor, but I don't think TLO did it to do any random cheese move to win a quick game. Also the other players scouted him well enough so he couldn't really do any super cheese move to win a quick game. I do understand what you are arguing, and I do see where your argument can be viable, but watching the games I didn't really feel like they were playing super safe or super cheese strategies. I think TLO did a good job of being random without cheesing. I respectfully disagree :/ | ||
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a11
Germany300 Posts
On March 28 2010 06:55 LF9 wrote: The advantage of random applies even if you play safe; one might argue it is even more pronounced in this case. The random player plays solid macro game, knowing his opponents race, and the other guy attempts to do the same but naturally MUST invest a bit more into scouting and preparation for the myriad of possibilities that accompany playing random. The random player knows his gameplan and can invest all his resources into executing it, while the other guy is playing in the dark and must prepare for the worst. What don't you guys understand about this? What do you diagree on? Are you saying that there is no advantage to random? I don't play with a maphack, sorry. When I play against a random player I have no idea what race he is until I get a scout into his base. If you play safe, your standard play has to excel in nine matchups instead of three. I think the amount of additional time required to acquire this excellence outweighs the advantage you mention by a significant margin. Otherwise, as was already mentioned, Brood War Progamers would certainly play random, wouldn't they? The only way, to make random still work, seems to be - and this is, why there is a bunch of quite amazed people right now - to have such an amazing mind that you can compete without having all the standard builds down cold. That you can exploit all the tiny and unusual chances which open up in a match. Not saying he didn't do any mistakes, like that pylon in the last game etc., but still, in most of his matches he made things work you usually only dream of. edit: Oh well, I'm slow and also writing replies as long as fellow Alou's ones - good night everyone. | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
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AskJoshy
United States1625 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On March 28 2010 07:08 a11 wrote: If you play safe, your standard play has to excel in nine matchups instead of three. I think the amount of additional time required to acquire this excellence outweighs the advantage you mention by a significant margin. Otherwise, as was already mentioned, Brood War Progamers would certainly play random, wouldn't they? The only way, to make random still work, seems to be - and this is, why there is a bunch of quite amazed people right now - to have such an amazing mind that you can compete without having all the standard builds down cold. That you can exploit all the tiny and unusual chances which open up in a match. Not saying he didn't do any mistakes, like that pylon in the last game etc., but still, in most of his matches he made things work you usually only dream of. I think one of the main arguments in play is that this is only truly viable early on in this game. People haven't perfected counters, openers, timings, etc... so nobody is polished enough yet where playing random is such a hindrance because nobody is top tier in terms of their 1 race. If this weren't the beta and instead a year after its release I'd agree with you, but not right now. | ||
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a11
Germany300 Posts
On March 28 2010 07:12 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I think one of the main arguments in play is that this is only truly viable early on in this game. People haven't perfected counters, openers, timings, etc... so nobody is polished enough yet where playing random is such a hindrance because nobody is top tier in terms of their 1 race. If this weren't the beta and instead a year after its release I'd agree with you, but not right now. Still then, he must have a quicker grasp on counters and stuff than anybody else, or not? Many of Boxer's tricks might be pretty weak these days, but still we admire him for having thought of them when there was less of a standard play, don't we? Not saying ZOMG TLO IS AS GOOD AS BOXER, I just find such virtuosity admirable.  | ||
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qaswedfr25
United States212 Posts
On March 28 2010 07:12 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I think one of the main arguments in play is that this is only truly viable early on in this game. People haven't perfected counters, openers, timings, etc... so nobody is polished enough yet where playing random is such a hindrance because nobody is top tier in terms of their 1 race. If this weren't the beta and instead a year after its release I'd agree with you, but not right now. Well he's brought nine matchups up to par with people who've practiced three. That's still pretty good, beta or not. | ||
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whiterabbit
2675 Posts
Also I can understand some of points "haters" are making but still, I was pretty impressed by his games. And what's even more important, I enjoyed them more then most of games I watched on streams/replays. Only that, at least for me, is enough to "join" his "fanclub", why? I am not like some here pretending to be "pro" who would take games of some people from tournament we watched, I am not pretending to pwn ladder up and down. I am playing this game casually to entertain myself and have fun. I also watch replays and streams because of same urge. Did TLO delivered that? Yes he did. He did deliver more then any player I watched by now. | ||
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ColorsOfRainbow
Germany354 Posts
learn to play 9 matchups then talk again ... | ||
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Razamataz
Canada135 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On March 28 2010 06:42 Jibba wrote: I really like TLO's creativity, but I don't know how to talk about his skill level because I'm a bit intimidated by the experts like LF9 and CharlieMurphy. oh great, i'm a meme now. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On March 28 2010 07:10 APurpleCow wrote: I agree 100% with NoNy and LF9. He is a rather creative player, but he doesn't seem to understand the game very well nor does he seem to be solid. What do they mean with "doesn't understand the game very well"? I think to ability to play creatively needs a lot of understanding of the game... Btw. I've watched his VoD's and he doesn't really cheese, in fact, many games are quite drawn-out macro games and it's those games were he really shined and where the "advantage" of playing random doesn't play a big factor anymore IMHO. Watching his VoD's, I was really impressed with his macro-ability, his Map-control, scouting and the way he reacted on what the opponent did. In addition, he played really creative and used his Units to the fullest of their potential. I was kinda skeptical too and it's a viable question whether he'll be as successful in the future (that depends mostly on how much he actually trains n' stuff), but now, I think he is quite solid and one of the best players out there. | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On March 28 2010 07:00 Spike wrote: Man, a lot of bickering. LF9 - What is your ladder id? I'd like to lol at his ladder ID too. | ||
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