G'day guys, cheers for posting the video feardragon!
Sick posts from NonY and Danglars for some good anxiety fighting tips. I see some people say they don't get what there is to be anxious about, unfortunately fear / anxiety is rarely rational and is incredibly hard to control. You can't just "logic" away the problem without fighting through that initial barrier and (hopefully through exposure to said fear) eventually overcome it. It's never simple.
I find ladder anxiety a really cool topic for discussion and was more than happy to make a video on it. What concepts would you guys suggest for another one? Looking to make more, similar if not better quality.
SC2 has a stigma of being too complicated and scary to play for regular modern PC gamers, even ones that play high level in other esports, and I'm looking to make more content that helps people try out ladder. Hopefully even only a small percentage become regular ladder grinders I see that as a mission success!
On March 07 2020 03:56 capacityex wrote: sit ur self down and imagine sitting in a group and the guy/gal next to you says , ye i stopped playing due to ladder anxiety. Then realise these kinds of people may have a job looking after you, teaching you or may have some direct control over your life. christ.
User was warned for this post
haha this 1000%. How do they function in society. What economic and/or social cost do we pay for their lack of emotional control in their daily life.
Well I know I pay the cost of having to read comments like this, because TL still doesn't have ignore button
On March 07 2020 23:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The idea of ladder anxiety is pretty strange phenomenon that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life. There used to be loads of pseudo psychology posts about this phenomenon. It seems unique to SC2 for some reason. Other 1v1 sports like tennis or chess or other online games don't suffer this phenomenon. Is it simply a fear of losing when you should always have a 50% chance of losing? Or fear of losing MMR when you think you have been playing above your usual capabilties? But why would you care about your MMR instead of the skills to gain that MMR in the first place? In the first place for much of SC2, MMR was hidden anyways.
Perhaps that is what it is. The original ladder system of SC2 may have inadvertedly created ladder anxiety from being such a strange system that was supposedly created to psychologically motivate people to play with their system of bonus points. But instead did the opposite and created this odd phenomenon of ladder anxiety.
Or it may have been that there was only 6 leagues, whilst most games have a multiple of three or four as many, so the natural idea of constantly shifting leagues were never gained. Gaining or losing a league were viewed to be drastic changes in skill and selfworth perhaps. Adding to this was introduced that once a rank was gained it could then not be lost, which seemed to do nothing to combat ladder anxiety. As it is, SC2 eventually went to a more normal open system, and ladder anxiety seemed to be consigned to the past as a strange phenomenon.
Or perhaps it was that people who experienced ladder anxiety simply did not enjoy playing the game at all, but their ego, or online boasting does not allow them to lose MMR/league. And so they play 1 game every season, just to keep up appearances. In a way, that exactly what playing with targets do. It fools people who don't enjoy playing the game to force themselves to play by bypassing their concern of essentially doing another activity.
that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life. Are you sure about that or are you just making an assertion?
Personally I don’t have an issue with ladder anxiety, something different entirely, but it seems a pretty common issue.
I suspect Dota 2 has an even bigger problem with ladder anxiety than SC, and, as Danglars' post points out, the problem has a lot to do with uncertainty. Though SC is intense, I only have to worry about myself. Most of the anxiety from Dota 2 comes from your teammates. A huge percentage of your games can be ruined from the outset because you didn't get the position you wanted or your teammate didn't and feeds. You can learn from every loss in SC2, but you can win in Dota 2 and learn nothing.
Also, I eat jalapenos straight out of the jar. I don't get why anybody finds them spicy.
On March 07 2020 23:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The idea of ladder anxiety is pretty strange phenomenon that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life.
I overcame my ladder anxiety back in the day with the method Nony described. There'll always be good and bad days. Playing through the bad stretches is stressful in the beginning, but once your brain accepts that there can't be that great adrenaline rush of a win every time, it's time to tackle the game with a mindful attitude. For some people that's easier said than done. Some people get REALLY upset after some losses, because they're thinking that they are just plain bad and won't ever improve at the game, which leads into a downward spiral. They actually like playing, but the fear of facing adversity gets bigger than the will to actually just play the damn game.
What also helped me was setting specific gameplay goals for each ladder session, like not getting supply blocked or having good creep spread. Focusing on specific builds also helps, because it becomes less random if you lose a game. 10000 games later, I'm way beyond ladder anxiety. I just play when I feel like playing.
But overall, it's about that little voice in our heads. Taking a step back and evualating the shit this voice says can be very helpful in real life situations. Irrationality is a part of humans, as is anxiety. Some deal with it easily, others don't. Maynarde's video is a great contribution. You're the man.
On the ladder anxiety thing, I think part of the oddness of the vocabulary come from the fact that psychologic language is a pretty novel thing, before we had people just saying the weren't competitive people, or that they choked under pressure, now it's phrase in a spychological way.
But SC2 is particularly stressfull compare to other competitive game, the fact that it makes your particularly aware that you suck every 30 seconds probably dosen't help
On March 07 2020 23:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The idea of ladder anxiety is pretty strange phenomenon that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life.
Ever heared of stage fright?
What about it? There's a difference between an event important to your livelihood and career and playing a game. People feel anxious when they have to perform to an audience that can decide the fate of their career, and every performance is like an job interview in front of a massive audience. Feeling anxious for a job interview is not ladder anxiety.
When I say real life I am talking about real life sports. Does football experience widespread fear of playing the game? Does this occur in tennis, table tennis, badminton, squash, various ,martial arts, or any number of sports that can be said to encampass 1v1? People feel anxious, but they aren't fearful of playing the game and don't resist playing the game for practice or recreation. There could be andrenaline effects and similar effects when competing, but there isn't the odd phenomenon of "ladder anxiety" where there is fear to play another game, to resist the urge of playing something fun with no consequences. Where videos and pages are written on tl on the idea that one can be fearful of playing SC2 a game with utterly no consequences and this phenomenon seems somewhat widespread among the hobbyist population.
This idea is really strange if any of you play any other sports or games. No other game/sport seems to encounter the idea that one can be fearful of playing the game/sport itself. Perhaps it was that SC2 was hyped as the "first big esports" so people who didn't enjoy the game played it and rationalised not enjoying the game and so not wanting to play as ladder anxiety. Perhaps it was the initial lack of socialisation in SC2 with it the lack of chat rooms that borne ladder anxiety. I think it was the bizarre league and points based system that finally got removed sometime in LotV, because after that nobody really talked about ladder anxiety anymore.
On March 07 2020 23:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The idea of ladder anxiety is pretty strange phenomenon that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life.
Ever heared of stage fright?
What about it? There's a difference between an event important to your livelihood and career and playing a game. People feel anxious when they have to perform to an audience that can decide the fate of their career, and every performance is like an job interview in front of a massive audience. Feeling anxious for a job interview is not ladder anxiety.
When I say real life I am talking about real life sports. Does football experience widespread fear of playing the game? Does this occur in tennis, table tennis, badminton, squash, various ,martial arts, or any number of sports that can be said to encampass 1v1? People feel anxious, but they aren't fearful of playing the game and don't resist playing the game for practice or recreation. There could be andrenaline effects and similar effects when competing, but there isn't the odd phenomenon of "ladder anxiety" where there is fear to play another game, to resist the urge of playing something fun with no consequences. Where videos and pages are written on tl on the idea that one can be fearful of playing SC2 a game with utterly no consequences and this phenomenon seems somewhat widespread among the hobbyist population.
This idea is really strange if any of you play any other sports or games. No other game/sport seems to encounter the idea that one can be fearful of playing the game/sport itself. Perhaps it was that SC2 was hyped as the "first big esports" so people who didn't enjoy the game played it and rationalised not enjoying the game and so not wanting to play as ladder anxiety. Perhaps it was the initial lack of socialisation in SC2 with it the lack of chat rooms that borne ladder anxiety. I think it was the bizarre league and points based system that finally got removed sometime in LotV, because after that nobody really talked about ladder anxiety anymore.
Most people don’t experience stage fright, or anxiety over public speaking in any situation that actually has real long-term life consequences, it’s usually stuff that’s as meaningless as queuing that ladder. I can’t recruit my friend to expand from my current one-man band setup despite her having a music degree and being objectively better than me because she’s too anxious to play with people.
From my days playing field hockey seriously there was a member of our club (and a much better player than I) who would routinely skip training because he didn’t like people watching him doing shooting drills. He was fine in a game environment for whatever reason, but didn’t like being scrutinised for his technique.
I don’t see how this is particularly at all unique to SC2 in any way, maybe the difference is that the community actually talks about it.
There’s probably innumerable people out there who were decent at chess in their youth but don’t play online for the exact kind of anxiety reasons we hear about here, we just don’t hear about them .
On March 07 2020 23:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The idea of ladder anxiety is pretty strange phenomenon that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life.
Ever heared of stage fright?
What about it? There's a difference between an event important to your livelihood and career and playing a game. People feel anxious when they have to perform to an audience that can decide the fate of their career, and every performance is like an job interview in front of a massive audience. Feeling anxious for a job interview is not ladder anxiety. When I say real life I am talking about real life sports. Does football experience widespread fear of playing the game? Does this occur in tennis, table tennis, badminton, squash, various ,martial arts, or any number of sports that can be said to encampass 1v1? People feel anxious, but they aren't fearful of playing the game and don't resist playing the game for practice or recreation. There could be andrenaline effects and similar effects when competing, but there isn't the odd phenomenon of "ladder anxiety" where there is fear to play another game, to resist the urge of playing something fun with no consequences. Where videos and pages are written on tl on the idea that one can be fearful of playing SC2 a game with utterly no consequences and this phenomenon seems somewhat widespread among the hobbyist population.
This idea is really strange if any of you play any other sports or games. No other game/sport seems to encounter the idea that one can be fearful of playing the game/sport itself. Perhaps it was that SC2 was hyped as the "first big esports" so people who didn't enjoy the game played it and rationalised not enjoying the game and so not wanting to play as ladder anxiety. Perhaps it was the initial lack of socialisation in SC2 with it the lack of chat rooms that borne ladder anxiety. I think it was the bizarre league and points based system that finally got removed sometime in LotV, because after that nobody really talked about ladder anxiety anymore.
I found these in 30seconds by typing "tennis anxiety" and "chess anxiety" in google. From this I am inclined to conclude that it is a widespread phenomenon and not in any way restricted to Starcraft.
On March 07 2020 23:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The idea of ladder anxiety is pretty strange phenomenon that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life.
Ever heared of stage fright?
What about it? There's a difference between an event important to your livelihood and career and playing a game. People feel anxious when they have to perform to an audience that can decide the fate of their career, and every performance is like an job interview in front of a massive audience. Feeling anxious for a job interview is not ladder anxiety. When I say real life I am talking about real life sports. Does football experience widespread fear of playing the game? Does this occur in tennis, table tennis, badminton, squash, various ,martial arts, or any number of sports that can be said to encampass 1v1? People feel anxious, but they aren't fearful of playing the game and don't resist playing the game for practice or recreation. There could be andrenaline effects and similar effects when competing, but there isn't the odd phenomenon of "ladder anxiety" where there is fear to play another game, to resist the urge of playing something fun with no consequences. Where videos and pages are written on tl on the idea that one can be fearful of playing SC2 a game with utterly no consequences and this phenomenon seems somewhat widespread among the hobbyist population.
This idea is really strange if any of you play any other sports or games. No other game/sport seems to encounter the idea that one can be fearful of playing the game/sport itself. Perhaps it was that SC2 was hyped as the "first big esports" so people who didn't enjoy the game played it and rationalised not enjoying the game and so not wanting to play as ladder anxiety. Perhaps it was the initial lack of socialisation in SC2 with it the lack of chat rooms that borne ladder anxiety. I think it was the bizarre league and points based system that finally got removed sometime in LotV, because after that nobody really talked about ladder anxiety anymore.
I found these in 30seconds by typing "tennis anxiety" and "chess anxiety" in google. From this I am inclined to conclude that it is a widespread phenomenon and not in any way restricted to Starcraft.
Definitely agree with you, this kind of anxiety is everywhere not just in SC / competitive games. Some people have it and some don't simple as that but they're the same KIND of anxiety and dealt with in a similar way.
Did you read the links or did you just randomly pasted anxiety into google and pulled some links? Because that's what it looks like.
Reading the links, the Tennis is for transfering "their high performance levels from the practice field to the competitive arena", and the Chess one is for a guy who gets anxious during tournaments but has no problem practicing. Most people in the chess thread identifies it not as what we SC2 players would call ladder anxiety, but a different emotion altogether. In essence SC2 ladder is pure practice. None of those are the mindblowing fear that resists people from laddering. The idea that people could fear practicing is not widespread in their communities. For example the Chess forum seems baffled at the poster and most of the advice is simple platitudes about don't worry and play for the love of the game or identify it as social anxiety, whilst in SC2 writing that would be angrily told that it isn't that simple, the response would be to write pages to go through a thousand hoops to psychologically tricking yourself into something you don't want to do.
I think part of the issue of ladder anxiety is that it IS so inconsequential. Most people play SC (ostensibly) for fun, so if you feel any sort of discomfort before queueing, you might just think "well fuck this, this isn't fun". It kind of spirals into this annoying association witih thinking about queueing.
EPT
