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Maynarde’s guide to Ladder Anxiety

Forum Index > Community Content
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1 2 Next All
feardragon
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States973 Posts
March 05 2020 20:50 GMT
#1
Maynarde made a really great video on dealing with ladder anxiety. Thought it would be cool to share it here.

Ok Starcraft 2 Commentator
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
March 05 2020 20:57 GMT
#2
Oh cool thanks!
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
kinsky
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany368 Posts
March 05 2020 22:05 GMT
#3
nice! wp maynarde!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26499 Posts
March 05 2020 23:01 GMT
#4
*Obligatory boomer comment*
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
ZugzwangSC
Profile Joined October 2019
87 Posts
March 06 2020 14:55 GMT
#5
Great video Maynarde!

Fear Dragon, when will you stop with the self-deprecation in your sig-line, dude! You da man, man.
www.youtube.com/c/zugzwangstarcraft
capacityex
Profile Joined June 2019
27 Posts
March 06 2020 18:56 GMT
#6
sit ur self down and imagine sitting in a group and the guy/gal next to you says , ye i stopped playing due to ladder anxiety. Then realise these kinds of people may have a job looking after you, teaching you or may have some direct control over your life. christ.

User was warned for this post
Akio
Profile Blog Joined January 2019
Finland1838 Posts
March 06 2020 19:20 GMT
#7
Maynarde makes some excellent gateway-content for newer players. Gj!
Mine gas, build tanks.
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13322 Posts
March 06 2020 19:55 GMT
#8
On March 07 2020 03:56 capacityex wrote:
sit ur self down and imagine sitting in a group and the guy/gal next to you says , ye i stopped playing due to ladder anxiety. Then realise these kinds of people may have a job looking after you, teaching you or may have some direct control over your life. christ.

Jesus, imagine being so dense
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-06 20:40:14
March 06 2020 20:39 GMT
#9
I never understood ladder anxiety.
What is there to be afraid of?
You will lose about 50% of your games no matter if you are good or bad. Improving does not change that, you will just lose 50% of your games against better opponents.

If you lose MMR nothing happens. You will not get more or less money, it will have no impact on you health or well being.

I can understand being nervous in a tournament when lots of money is on the line. But nothing in you life changes if you win or lose more on the ladder.
ThunderJunk
Profile Joined December 2015
United States726 Posts
March 06 2020 20:54 GMT
#10
On March 07 2020 05:39 MockHamill wrote:
I never understood ladder anxiety.
What is there to be afraid of?
You will lose about 50% of your games no matter if you are good or bad. Improving does not change that, you will just lose 50% of your games against better opponents.

If you lose MMR nothing happens. You will not get more or less money, it will have no impact on you health or well being.

I can understand being nervous in a tournament when lots of money is on the line. But nothing in you life changes if you win or lose more on the ladder.


Exactly.
Can't be Thanos if you don't know what it's like to lose.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
March 06 2020 22:01 GMT
#11
On March 07 2020 05:39 MockHamill wrote:
I never understood ladder anxiety.
What is there to be afraid of?
You will lose about 50% of your games no matter if you are good or bad. Improving does not change that, you will just lose 50% of your games against better opponents.

If you lose MMR nothing happens. You will not get more or less money, it will have no impact on you health or well being.

I can understand being nervous in a tournament when lots of money is on the line. But nothing in you life changes if you win or lose more on the ladder.

Jeez, I never understood fear of spiders. you just go near them, pick them up and throw them out of the window! Or fear of hights.

Ladder anxiety isn't rational. People have irrational fears, anxiety, w/e. Imagine some people have anxiety to talk to living people! Imagine that!

So, back to the topic. Yes, they will lose MMR, they will lose points and generally speaking they will lose the will to play the game. Because of the "super uber pro" UI from WoL we lost to ladder anxiety pretty good number of players, that's the reason why w/r is so far hidden and why unranked was added.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
sertman
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States540 Posts
March 06 2020 22:41 GMT
#12
On March 07 2020 05:39 MockHamill wrote:
I never understood ladder anxiety.
What is there to be afraid of?
You will lose about 50% of your games no matter if you are good or bad. Improving does not change that, you will just lose 50% of your games against better opponents.

If you lose MMR nothing happens. You will not get more or less money, it will have no impact on you health or well being.

I can understand being nervous in a tournament when lots of money is on the line. But nothing in you life changes if you win or lose more on the ladder.


Because losing sucks and feels really bad for some people and those with anxiety issues have their anxiety protecting them from those negative feelings (and eventually, the anxiety itself is avoided by not playing). You can't reason with anxiety so spelling it out logically isn't going to help.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-06 23:36:11
March 06 2020 23:31 GMT
#13
If I'd had several good days in a row and my MMR got high, I'd start to feel like I gotta protect the MMR and I'd play on other accounts unless I felt like I was playing my best. Then I'd go play on my main account with all this anxiety and pressure, and I wouldn't play as well. It wasn't a good way to go about it. Just keep grinding and if you tank your MMR one day, that just means you'll have some easier games the next day.

In training for sports, there is usually a pattern of hard days and easy days. In running, for example, you need to get psyched up for a major workout only twice a week or so. The other 5 days are fairly easy running and low stress. But in esports, there's an expectation that you can be "on" all day, day after day, and it's a little ridiculous. Sure, you can practice all the time, and maybe a few very talented people can be very consistent during all that practice. But what happens for most people who practice a lot every day is a natural cycle of peak play followed by some periods of recuperation when performance dips.

Learn to embrace that cycle, not get stressed out about it. Ride the peak as long as you can, but when you finally have an off-day, just grind it out and don't worry about it. Think of it positively, in the sense that once you're recovered you will be ready to play at your highest level again and your MMR has just dropped, so you will get to smash some games soon. If you think of it negatively, then your mind doesn't recover, it's too stressed, and you can have a long slump. But you do have to play through it, otherwise you will go from being overtrained to being rusty. So play through that slump but allow your mind to relax and not stress about it. It is a vital part of training.

If you actually relax enough, you could get back to a state of flow in that same session and start playing your best!
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 07 2020 01:03 GMT
#14
From previous TL threads on ladder anxiety:
Why do we get ladder anxiety?

In psychology, emotions (anxiety) are thought to come from automatic evaluations of consequences, called “appraisals”.

The problem with appraisals is just that - they are automatic. So - when evaluating the concept of ladder play, if the consequences of a "ladder loss" is uncertain in your brain, the appraisals are forced to make something up. For survival reasons, appraisals usually want to be on the safe side. This can result in an "appraisal of doom" - for instance when you think about a ladder loss as a potential disaster. It works the same way with public speeches or exams.

Secondly, we not only expect negative consequences of laddering, but also positive effects (winning and glory) and “cost” effects like exhaustion. All these expectations can combine to create high adrenaline activation before games - especially when you play rarely.

A final irrational factor affecting us, is misunderstanding what emotion you are experiencing - something humans do surprisingly often, especially in combination with adrenaline. We will address this below.

For most people, the combination of doom appraisals and adrenaline activation is probably what constitutes "ladder anxiety". The good news is that these effects are quite normal and quite fixable.

partysnatcher's Psycho approach to ladder anxiety

5.Meditate on your plan. Take thirty seconds before the game and close your eyes. Are you cannon rushing this game? Are you going to do early pressure or early defense? Make each decision before the game has begun and before the loading screen appears. If you have the game in your mind and your opponent doesn't you will own the playing field.

6.Imagine the game as a long term war. If you lose this battle that doesn't mean you've lost the war. The war is ongoing and your units are only meaningful in the way they contribute to that war, not in how they contribute to this battle. If they all die then they died for the cause. Think of the 'Surrender' button in the menu as a 'Retreat' button. You live on to fight another day. You can come back to this battlefield and win the day in the future.

Trap 3.I hate losing so much!- Get on the ladder today and lose 10 games. Do it on purpose. Throw endless waves of units away. Let the enemy straight into your base. Don't build defenses. Let them stomp you and have the win. Then, when they win, go and tell them they're the best player you've ever fought. If they make fun of you or call you names all the better. Tell them they're right. LOSE HARD. If they say 'You suck, faggot' say 'I sucked ten dicks today. Thank you sir, may I have another?'.

Crush Your Ego. You don't deserve to win until you can win without defining yourself based on how much you win.

chessiecat's Creating the Starcraft 2 Head-Space
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
March 07 2020 10:29 GMT
#15
I think esports is pretty nice.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-07 16:40:45
March 07 2020 14:29 GMT
#16
The idea of ladder anxiety is pretty strange phenomenon that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life. There used to be loads of pseudo psychology posts about this phenomenon. It seems unique to SC2 for some reason. Other 1v1 sports like tennis or chess or other online games don't suffer this phenomenon. Is it simply a fear of losing when you should always have a 50% chance of losing? Or fear of losing MMR when you think you have been playing above your usual capabilties? But why would you care about your MMR instead of the skills to gain that MMR in the first place? In the first place for much of SC2, MMR was hidden anyways.

Perhaps that is what it is. The original ladder system of SC2 may have inadvertedly created ladder anxiety from being such a strange system that was supposedly created to psychologically motivate people to play with their system of bonus points. But instead did the opposite and created this odd phenomenon of ladder anxiety.

Or it may have been that there was only 6 leagues, whilst most games have a multiple of three or four as many, so the natural idea of constantly shifting leagues were never gained. Gaining or losing a league were viewed to be drastic changes in skill and selfworth perhaps. Adding to this was introduced that once a rank was gained it could then not be lost, which seemed to do nothing to combat ladder anxiety. As it is, SC2 eventually went to a more normal open system, and ladder anxiety seemed to be consigned to the past as a strange phenomenon.

Or perhaps it was that people who experienced ladder anxiety simply did not enjoy playing the game at all, but their ego, or online boasting does not allow them to lose MMR/league. And so they play 1 game every season, just to keep up appearances. In a way, that exactly what playing with targets do. It fools people who don't enjoy playing the game to force themselves to play by bypassing their concern of essentially doing another activity.

WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26499 Posts
March 07 2020 20:41 GMT
#17
On March 07 2020 19:29 Saechiis wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmOXIG2pLCg

Hahahahahaha
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
March 07 2020 20:44 GMT
#18
Can't become a master without being a fool first. Lose more win more.
Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26499 Posts
March 07 2020 20:44 GMT
#19
On March 07 2020 23:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The idea of ladder anxiety is pretty strange phenomenon that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life. There used to be loads of pseudo psychology posts about this phenomenon. It seems unique to SC2 for some reason. Other 1v1 sports like tennis or chess or other online games don't suffer this phenomenon. Is it simply a fear of losing when you should always have a 50% chance of losing? Or fear of losing MMR when you think you have been playing above your usual capabilties? But why would you care about your MMR instead of the skills to gain that MMR in the first place? In the first place for much of SC2, MMR was hidden anyways.

Perhaps that is what it is. The original ladder system of SC2 may have inadvertedly created ladder anxiety from being such a strange system that was supposedly created to psychologically motivate people to play with their system of bonus points. But instead did the opposite and created this odd phenomenon of ladder anxiety.

Or it may have been that there was only 6 leagues, whilst most games have a multiple of three or four as many, so the natural idea of constantly shifting leagues were never gained. Gaining or losing a league were viewed to be drastic changes in skill and selfworth perhaps. Adding to this was introduced that once a rank was gained it could then not be lost, which seemed to do nothing to combat ladder anxiety. As it is, SC2 eventually went to a more normal open system, and ladder anxiety seemed to be consigned to the past as a strange phenomenon.

Or perhaps it was that people who experienced ladder anxiety simply did not enjoy playing the game at all, but their ego, or online boasting does not allow them to lose MMR/league. And so they play 1 game every season, just to keep up appearances. In a way, that exactly what playing with targets do. It fools people who don't enjoy playing the game to force themselves to play by bypassing their concern of essentially doing another activity.


that isn't experienced widespread anywhere else, whether in gaming or real life.
Are you sure about that or are you just making an assertion?

Personally I don’t have an issue with ladder anxiety, something different entirely, but it seems a pretty common issue.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-08 03:02:11
March 08 2020 03:01 GMT
#20
On March 07 2020 03:56 capacityex wrote:
sit ur self down and imagine sitting in a group and the guy/gal next to you says , ye i stopped playing due to ladder anxiety. Then realise these kinds of people may have a job looking after you, teaching you or may have some direct control over your life. christ.

User was warned for this post


haha this 1000%. How do they function in society. What economic and/or social cost do we pay for their lack of emotional control in their daily life.


User was warned for this post.
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