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On November 29 2011 14:44 DystopiaX wrote: TVXQ may be the ONLY exception though. And I like Kanye's music, but mostly the older stuff and the stuff he doesn't promote- much like k-idols, his title tracks may be the catchiest but they're not the best.
Also many kpop songs don't come from Scandinavians- that seems to be mostly SM although others do it too.
And I've said it before, but go back to before Boom Boom Pow and listen to something like "Like That", it's actually not that bad.
edit- also that's just like, your opinion man. The argument started about if kmusic will have mass appeal, and what it comes down to is that it doesn't matter if current kmusic does or not, they can just buy compositions from western composers.
Yeah it is my opinion.
I just find it silly when people start saying things like "oh Kpop is bad musically compared to mainstream American pop music" . . . . like seriously . . .
I don't think its really silly at all when you consider that a big part of Kpop's selling point is the performances on the music shows where as that's just not true with American music. If you can boost up your popularity with performances then your music doesn't need to be as good.
On November 29 2011 14:44 DystopiaX wrote: TVXQ may be the ONLY exception though. And I like Kanye's music, but mostly the older stuff and the stuff he doesn't promote- much like k-idols, his title tracks may be the catchiest but they're not the best.
Also many kpop songs don't come from Scandinavians- that seems to be mostly SM although others do it too.
And I've said it before, but go back to before Boom Boom Pow and listen to something like "Like That", it's actually not that bad.
edit- also that's just like, your opinion man. The argument started about if kmusic will have mass appeal, and what it comes down to is that it doesn't matter if current kmusic does or not, they can just buy compositions from western composers.
Yeah it is my opinion.
I just find it silly when people start saying things like "oh Kpop is bad musically compared to mainstream American pop music" . . . . like seriously . . .
I don't think its really silly at all when you consider that a big part of Kpop's selling point is the performances on the music shows where as that's just not true with American music. If you can boost up your popularity with performances then your music doesn't need to be as good.
I'll point you to all my posts that you've ignored. If they're serious that'll be less important than you think.'
Also live performances are much less influential on sales than you'd think.
I didn't ignore you, I was just arguing a different point.
I agree that if they were serious it won't be a problem. The point is that their current strategy of promoting just won't work at all, since they can't rely on visuals.
Regardless of music quality, the biggest barrier is going to be language.
I am really picky about the lyrical aspect in songs. When I listen to the hit songs from America today, they are all generic and i can pretty much guess every other song is about sex, partying and sex. When I listen to Kpop, since i don't know the language , I can fill in the lyrics myself which makes the songs more enjoyable. This is probably the reason most of us foreigners got into Kpop, besides the babe watching part of course.
On November 29 2011 14:57 Skysec wrote: I didn't ignore you, I was just arguing a different point.
I agree that if they were serious it won't be a problem. The point is that their current strategy of promoting just won't work at all, since they can't rely on visuals.
Regardless of music quality, the biggest barrier is going to be language.
Well then again, you seem to be coming from the standpoint that currently they're all trying to become as big as some of the western artists here- I'd argue that while they'd think that would be nice, their goals are probably much more reasonable- SNSD style, not WG take over the US style.
I honestly think that eventually it could happen, but a LONG time from now. It'll be slow rather than some random breakout, small steps like what the WG are doing with that Teen Nick movie (which I think will be stupid) until the negative stigma attached with being Asian and asian accents goes away. It can happen, and I think it will, but it'll be a long time before any group will reach the kind of success you're talking about.
Now I have an interesting somewhat related question. Is Kpop w/o the korean language and the visuals still Kpop?
Kpop artists that want to promote in America will find it hard to do any of their performances out of concerts. At what point does it just become a Korean person singing songs in english? Also a defining characteristic of Kpop is the seemingly random english thrown in everywhere, how will that work here?
On November 29 2011 15:18 Skysec wrote: Would you consider SNSD's Japanese album jpop then?
I consider it Korean stylistically; I guess I should have rephrased my response. When you were saying singing songs in English, the idea I got was that they were basically taking songs made entirely by western composers and singing them- if the song stylistically and lyrically is western, then it's western pop. What SNSD and most other girl groups have done in Japan, however, is taken songs mostly written by Korean composers/producers or remade their Korean songs, singing in Japanese. Jpop has a distinctly different sound than, say, Mr. Taxi, much like changing the lyrics to Mister didn't make it jpop.
edit- it's not really a language thing as much as it is language and style together. Defining what kpop and jpop is, much like defining different genres of "rock", a generally fuzzy thing with gray area and many elements left largely up to subjective observations.
On November 29 2011 14:15 Skysec wrote: Kpop won't make it big in America because of a few big reasons.
(I'm going to just assume the songs are in English, because LOL if otherwise) 1. They can't speak english for shit. 2. If they do, they have huge accents, and asian accents don't have the "sexy-foreign" allure that european or australian accents do 3. If they mannage to get past all that, they come out as dumb as rocks. I'm sorry, I love these Idols just as much as you, but when 90% of your life is dedicated to singing, looking good, and acting sexy/cute you don't have much time to be intelligent. Of course there's the obvious outliers to all 3 of those points (yes I know Tablo went to Stanford and Sojin has a Mech E major) but the majority of Idols out there couldn't multiply their way out of a paper box. 4. There are still big sterotypes about asians. 5. Americans don't like "cute" music. I really can't think of a really famous artist here currently that's known for being "cute". 6. Americans are pretty big music snobs. You will get wreaked here for putting out shitty music (Rebecca Black, Ke$ha). The really big artists here that are poppy got big because their music was good and listenable. The music industry here is more about the audio then the visual, which cuts out a huge selling point of the Kpop industry, and 75% of Idols can't sing at all and are just there because they can dance or they look good.
Being cute or hot can only take you so far.
And then you have the massive population of total douches who listen to the worst music imaginable.
No joke, I was sitting outside of Starbucks sipping my hot chocolate looking all intellectual and shit, reading a book and shit, thinking "hmm, maybe this place isn't so bad after all" -- when out of nowhere a car pulls up to the stoplight blasting "LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR".
Same thing tonight when I went to get gas, some guy pulls into a parking space in an accord, complete with a spoiler, cranking dat Lollipop by Lil Wayne like its fucking 2008.
Come on guys. This is America. Kpop will never, ever, EVER succeed here.
dis will never be american pop Ya, I just realized how funny it was that I get shit for listening to kpop when they repeatedly sing LMFAO songs all fuckin day if i hear "my hearts a stereo" one more time i am going to kill a kitten
On November 29 2011 14:15 Skysec wrote: Kpop won't make it big in America because of a few big reasons.
(I'm going to just assume the songs are in English, because LOL if otherwise) 1. They can't speak english for shit. 2. If they do, they have huge accents, and asian accents don't have the "sexy-foreign" allure that european or australian accents do 3. If they mannage to get past all that, they come out as dumb as rocks. I'm sorry, I love these Idols just as much as you, but when 90% of your life is dedicated to singing, looking good, and acting sexy/cute you don't have much time to be intelligent. Of course there's the obvious outliers to all 3 of those points (yes I know Tablo went to Stanford and Sojin has a Mech E major) but the majority of Idols out there couldn't multiply their way out of a paper box. 4. There are still big sterotypes about asians. 5. Americans don't like "cute" music. I really can't think of a really famous artist here currently that's known for being "cute". 6. Americans are pretty big music snobs. You will get wreaked here for putting out shitty music (Rebecca Black, Ke$ha). The really big artists here that are poppy got big because their music was good and listenable. The music industry here is more about the audio then the visual, which cuts out a huge selling point of the Kpop industry, and 75% of Idols can't sing at all and are just there because they can dance or they look good.
Being cute or hot can only take you so far.
The really big artists here that are poppy got big because their music was good and listenable?
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this one. Look at some of the biggest "pop" acts active in the US in the past few years . . . Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, Black Eyed Peas, T-pain, Flo-rida, Kanye West . . . .
Their music aren't good and listenable. I'm pretty certain that on average, K-pop idols (male ones at least) are far superior performers and musicians compared to typical "American pop music".
Yeah, it's hard for Asians to be accepted by mainstream America, but the music itself is not bad compared to what Americans get.
this guy actually just said kanye's music is horrible. nbomb is u serious?
lmao
kanye, lady gaga and bep >> anything idols will ever make. sorry bro. they also produce and write their own music. name 3 top idols that do this.
stop dat
They produce and write their own music? Doesn't really matter if it's complete crap. The stuff the average Kpop producer comes out with (Scandinavians!!!!!!) is actually loads higher quality. Have you LISTENED to the stuff the BEP, Kanye, and Lady Gaga have churned out in the past three years?
As for idols producing their own music, that's not their job. They are professional performers and a lot of them are DAMN good at it.
Nevertheless, Teee Veee Ekssss Kyuuuuuuuu >>> any recent American pop act . . . by a lot . . a lot a lot a lot
haha I can't believe people kanye's music is shitty. "lets judge music off radio singles"
seriously if you know anything about hiphop you'd know that college dropout and late registration sets the modern bar for any aspiring underground artists vying for recognition. even now, anyone and everyone in the game raps over beats off of mbdtf.
On November 29 2011 14:44 DystopiaX wrote: TVXQ may be the ONLY exception though. And I like Kanye's music, but mostly the older stuff and the stuff he doesn't promote- much like k-idols, his title tracks may be the catchiest but they're not the best.
Also many kpop songs don't come from Scandinavians- that seems to be mostly SM although others do it too.
And I've said it before, but go back to before Boom Boom Pow and listen to something like "Like That", it's actually not that bad.
edit- also that's just like, your opinion man. The argument started about if kmusic will have mass appeal, and what it comes down to is that it doesn't matter if current kmusic does or not, they can just buy compositions from western composers.
Yeah it is my opinion.
I just find it silly when people start saying things like "oh Kpop is bad musically compared to mainstream American pop music" . . . . like seriously . . .
I think a better way to put it is that kpop is different from western pop music in a way that makes it unappealing to those that like western pop music, and therefore unlikely to be successful.
because kpop is just a rehash of a rehash of a rehash. kpop taking it in new directions with wubstep? nope, britney did that a year or two back. girl's day pioneering with a pinch of eurotrance? nope, already been done by rihanna. etc etc etc.
On November 29 2011 15:33 andyrau wrote: haha I can't believe people kanye's music is shitty. "lets judge music off radio singles"
seriously if you know anything about hiphop you'd know that college dropout and late registration sets the modern bar for any aspiring underground artists vying for recognition. even now, anyone and everyone in the game raps over beats off of mbdtf.
On November 29 2011 14:44 DystopiaX wrote: TVXQ may be the ONLY exception though. And I like Kanye's music, but mostly the older stuff and the stuff he doesn't promote- much like k-idols, his title tracks may be the catchiest but they're not the best.
Also many kpop songs don't come from Scandinavians- that seems to be mostly SM although others do it too.
And I've said it before, but go back to before Boom Boom Pow and listen to something like "Like That", it's actually not that bad.
edit- also that's just like, your opinion man. The argument started about if kmusic will have mass appeal, and what it comes down to is that it doesn't matter if current kmusic does or not, they can just buy compositions from western composers.
Yeah it is my opinion.
I just find it silly when people start saying things like "oh Kpop is bad musically compared to mainstream American pop music" . . . . like seriously . . .
I think a better way to put it is that kpop is different from western pop music in a way that makes it unappealing to those that like western pop music, and therefore unlikely to be successful.
because kpop is just a rehash of a rehash of a rehash. kpop taking it in new directions with wubstep? nope, britney did that a year or two back. girl's day pioneering with a pinch of eurotrance? nope, already been done by rihanna. etc etc etc.
the worst part is that it's a rehash of a rehash of a rehash of a watered down version of real music that only a small portion of "hipsters" and "elitists" listen to. The whole music scene is hilarious if you really think about it, but if you think about most shit in life you'll realize how fucking stupid it all really is. The point is, who gives a fuck, people will like what they like, haters gonna hate, etc etc. Such is life. No one should care whether or not anyone makes it anywhere because it's not gonna change your view of them in reality, so who cares.
btw andy that wasn't just for you, and you're right about kanye, but the whole last page is hilarious.
EPT
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