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On November 28 2017 13:24 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 12:45 Sentenal wrote:
Less content cuts is just objectively false, though. If you ever have an instance where there is an anime series of X, and also a movie verison of X, then the anime series will always have more content because even a paltry 12 episodes has more time than an 2 hour movie. The only exception to this is when you start stacking on multiple movies on top of each other, or if its Nanoha the 1st Movie (but thats more because Nanoha s1 was pretty meh) no, to make this as easy to understand as possible after having tried to explain this 3 times in a row already because what I mean with that apparently still hasn't gotten to you guys: LN series adapted into series: 2-4 vols made into a 1cour series LN series adapted into a movie: 1-2 vols made into one movie that's been my experience so far with movies and what I mean with "movies do what they focus on more in detail". Hell, Kizu was 3 movies for 1 vol
Again, Toad, please explain to me how more content can be put into 120 minutes (2 hour movie) of footage vs 240 minutes (12 episode TV series)? Please, I need to know how you are pulling off this time compression, because right now you are reminding me of the end of Final Fantasy 8, and thats not a good thing.
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First of all, I've probably watched more like... 20-30 movies? Arguably still not a lot but with movies I'm a fair bit more picky than with anime series. Watched some a couple times but that probably doesn't count. I tend to forget adding movies to MAL unless I add them before they're even out (and then just now looking at it I can see that I never changed NGNL from "planned" to "watched" etc).
okay nagi, so let's ignore kizu being 3 and let's say it's 1.5 movies because the movies were short if you look at each one by itself. So you pay 15-20$ to watch all 3 in a cinema and you get to watch 3-4 hours Kizu adaptation nonstop. And Kizu is 1vol
Compare that to Bake which animated twice as much content if we're talking about vols, probably closer to 3 or even 4 times as much content if we're talking about a pages. And despite it being 2-4 times as much content it's not even close to being 2-4 times as much runtime.
Take Monogatari 2nd season, that's 2 cour and covers 5 vols (6 if you want to add the dropped vol they did as a special and reduced the episodes in season2 to account for that).
The Kizu example isn't even about it being 3 movies. They're just doing that in much more detail even if you ignore that.
Secondly, I specifically said I'm only talking about movies that you're ignoring: your point 2. Recap movies I don't ever watch so I'm only talking about anime original or stuff that never was adapted as a series in the first place. That's the whole point about why I like them and you ignore it because "those are just few exceptions" and should be ignored.
And idk what's with the "fuck NGNL" comment. That's a recent example that does exactly what I'm talking about even without being one of those 3parters:
NGNL was what? 13 or 12 episodes while covering 2 entire vols (and parts of another at the very end lol). NGNL movie covered 1vol.
You liked Your Name, didn't you? You're discarding it because to you it's an exception because it's anime original when the real solution is to ignore recap movies and only watch stuff that's either anime original or made for movie in the first place. Then you won't be disappointed as far as I'm concerned.
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3-one-hour movies covering what would normally be covered in 3-6 episodes... I wonder which one has a longer runtime... :thinking:
Also, I get the feeling Toad is only talking about Monogatari crap.
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On November 28 2017 14:26 Sentenal wrote:
3-one-hour movies covering what would normally be covered in 3-6 episodes... I wonder which one has a longer runtime... :thinking:
Also, I get the feeling Toad is only talking about Monogatari crap.
you seriously still don't get it... That's EXACTLY my point.
Let's make it 1cour vs 1cour, okay?
12episodes covering 2vols vs 12episodes covering 4vols.
I like the first more because it cuts less content out of the content it does cover even if the 1cour that covers 4vols "covered" twice as much. That usually leaves out important stuff here and there. That's my point about why I like movies (that aren't anime-original)
You're arguing that the 2nd is better because it covers 4 entire vols in the same runtime, but does so with less detail if I'm understanding you correctly?
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So your whole point is comparing apples to oranges? Considering no one else is agreeing with you, I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who is missing the point. If thats actually your point then you aren't even talking about anime vs movies, you're talking about shitty adaptions vs good ones, lol
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Comparing volumes to volumes is silly imo
Volumes are not equal, especially not between series and even within a single series there can be worlds between what content is within a volume
2 volumes over 12 episodes isn't necessarily better than 4 volumes over 12 episodes
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On November 28 2017 14:57 Sentenal wrote:
So your whole point is comparing apples to oranges? Considering no one else is agreeing with you, I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who is missing the point. If thats actually your point then you aren't even talking about anime vs movies, you're talking about shitty adaptions vs good ones, lol
kind of?
On November 28 2017 10:38 Toadesstern wrote:
in my experience movies are way better at adapting source material than single cour seasons. [...] On November 28 2017 11:34 Toadesstern wrote:
I would agree that a 1-cour season covers more but like I said, at least in my experience the stuff it DOES cover is adapted worse due to constraints of 12x20minute. Weird cuts of source to fit everything into an episode rather than having the freedom to manage it reasonably elsewhere. On November 28 2017 12:13 Toadesstern wrote:
[...]
So imo movies are better in both since they tend to focus on just one thing. They cover less source overall but they do the thing they cover in more detail and better executed as long as we're not talking about recap movies or an already existing series made again into a movie.
how in the world did that not get across?
I'd argue that movies are inherently better for adapting one specific, reasonably short part of a maybe longer story, whatever that may be, and it's almost always going to be
a) more detailed (contextwise) by focusing on the one thing they want to tell rather than having to tell 12x20 minute episodes
b) look better (we all expect way more from a movie when it comes to visuals and they do deliver)
so you're less likely to get shitty pacing or stuff getting cut inbetween. Doesn't mean all 1cour series are worse, but it's a more frequent problem for them in my opinion.
I mean look back at what started the discussion: Made In Abyss getting a continuation and people speculating wether or not that's going to be a 2nd season or a movie.
What does bringing up shitty recap movies have to do with that. Or for that matter excluding all stuff that was "intended for movies because that's the exception"... that's exactly the kind of thing we're talking about here. Something that's neither a recap and quite possibly very vell fitting for the format.
On November 28 2017 15:08 Unleashing wrote:
Comparing volumes to volumes is silly imo
Volumes are not equal, especially not between series and even within a single series there can be worlds between what content is within a volume
2 volumes over 12 episodes isn't necessarily better than 4 volumes over 12 episodes
obviously but I'm assuming that as a given. But assuming given source X there is certainly stuff that works better in movie format for me.
Back to NGNL, I think we can all agree that the vol they covered in that movie just flat out doesn't work as a 1cour.
Your Name, if given the option, I would never, ever want to see adapted to a 1cour.
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Except there is nothing inherently better about movies for adapting anything. They could adapt a single volume of something into a 50 episode anime if they really wanted to. They could adapt like 10 LN novels into a single movie. Its not a question of their format that makes them good or not. The format is completely irrelevant to what you have apparently been arguing, and you haven't even seen enough anime movies to know which way they tend to fall!
And btw, there isn't a single difference between anime getting adapted into a movie over a light novel getting adapted into a movie, except for footage already exists for one of them. Like that Gundam Age movie that was super shit. They cut out a hilarious amount of content in their attempt to adapt like 30 episodes into one movie. It wasn't the fault of it being in movie format, it was the fault of "wtf are you people even doing"
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On November 28 2017 15:30 Sentenal wrote:
Except there is nothing inherently better about movies for adapting anything. They could adapt a single volume of something into a 50 episode anime if they really wanted to.
how often have you seen that? They could, but they don't so what's the point of that example?
All I'm saying is that in my opinion movies tend to focus more on that one thing they want to say giving you for the most part more detailed and better thought through adaptations whereas the 12x20 minute format of 1cours makes that a lot harder. Doesn't mean there aren't good 1cour adaptations but I think it's significantly harder to be equal with a movie on that. I'd say that's a pretty fair statement but apparently you guys all disagree with that.
That assumes that there is some narrative to focus on. I wouldn't ever want some 4coma manga turned into a movie either.
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You could be an anime series that covers 1 volume in 1 cour.
See Hibike Euphonium s1 and Rokka No Yuusha. it's objectively more minutes of runtime than if they were a movie. And hibike is fantastic. Why would i want to see it in movie form?
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Rokka no Yuusha was super crap though, I wouldn't want that in either. Kidding, but I didn't like it and it obviously didn't work for me .
It's not about how many numbers of volumes they cover like Unleashing already tried to argue either. It's just the feeling that the 1cour series I'm watching tend to be on the rushed side of things moreso than on the too slow side.
There are exceptions here and there like.grimgar that felt waaaaay too slow for me but overall with the kind of shows I'm watching, if I could choose I'd definitely say that I felt like it should have been more fleshed out and just focused more on a smaller part of it to achieve that. On average.
Doesn't even have to be based on quality of adaptation. SAO first arc is generally considered to be too rushed by a lot of people. That's not an issue of the adaptation but of the source and hence people saying progressive is so much better.
Not as an example for or against anything, just stating that I'm aware that that happens for various reasons before anyone comes in here and says that's the issue I have.
There are good and bad examples on both sides and I'm not arguing against that. It's just that the only bad movie out of 20-30 I've ever seen is the Gundam BL one.
I can name you a shitton more mediocre or bad LN adaptations (speaking percentagewise, not total numbers) that I felt could have been so much better if only it would have been a more focused, concise narrative.
I'll give you that that could very well be a thing specific to the kind of series I tend to watch: a lot of shitty or mediocre LN adaptations. So from my standpoint a movie is almost always superior~
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On November 28 2017 15:38 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 15:30 Sentenal wrote:
Except there is nothing inherently better about movies for adapting anything. They could adapt a single volume of something into a 50 episode anime if they really wanted to. how often have you seen that? They could, but they don't so what's the point of that example? All I'm saying is that in my opinion movies tend to focus more on that one thing they want to say giving you for the most part more detailed and better thought through adaptations whereas the 12x20 minute format of 1cours makes that a lot harder. Doesn't mean there aren't good 1cour adaptations but I think it's significantly harder to be equal with a movie on that. I'd say that's a pretty fair statement but apparently you guys all disagree with that. That assumes that there is some narrative to focus on. I wouldn't ever want some 4coma manga turned into a movie either.
The point of the example is they could just adapt movies based on a relatively short source, but that tends to not happen. Well, unless of course if you just decide the vast majority of anime movies don't actually count.
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Movies have the advantage of a timeline being run continuously without the need for a hook at the end of every 15 min episode. The pacing is generally better throughout the whole movie even if content has been cut. I don't see anything wrong with movie adaptations other than that you have to wait for the sub/dub to come out.
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On November 28 2017 11:37 Sentenal wrote:
The only time movies do it better is either if the anime itself was light on content, or if its several movies. "Weird" cuts>>>>Content cut
Or when the movie is original and not an adaptation of something, like Shinkai or Studio Ghibli films. Can't butcher the source material if the movie IS the source material.
I was going to use Eve no Jikan as an example, but apparently that was even based on a six episode ONA. Didn't even know.
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On November 28 2017 23:48 Ferrose wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 11:37 Sentenal wrote:
The only time movies do it better is either if the anime itself was light on content, or if its several movies. "Weird" cuts>>>>Content cut Or when the movie is original and not an adaptation of something, like Shinkai or Studio Ghibli films. Can't butcher the source material if the movie IS the source material. I was going to use Eve no Jikan as an example, but apparently that was even based on a six episode ONA. Didn't even know.
The movie of time of eve is just a compilation of the 6 ONA’s with one or two extra scenes IIRC.
Anime movies do tend to have more budget and time devoted to them and don’t have to worry about censorship which are big plusses. I still prefer tv adaptations most of the time but in some situations movies are the way to go. Also I find that movie adaptations tend to fare better than Tv adaptations when they take some creative liberties with the source material (GiTS for example)
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On November 28 2017 23:17 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 15:38 Toadesstern wrote:On November 28 2017 15:30 Sentenal wrote:
Except there is nothing inherently better about movies for adapting anything. They could adapt a single volume of something into a 50 episode anime if they really wanted to. how often have you seen that? They could, but they don't so what's the point of that example? All I'm saying is that in my opinion movies tend to focus more on that one thing they want to say giving you for the most part more detailed and better thought through adaptations whereas the 12x20 minute format of 1cours makes that a lot harder. Doesn't mean there aren't good 1cour adaptations but I think it's significantly harder to be equal with a movie on that. I'd say that's a pretty fair statement but apparently you guys all disagree with that. That assumes that there is some narrative to focus on. I wouldn't ever want some 4coma manga turned into a movie either. The point of the example is they could just adapt movies based on a relatively short source, but that tends to not happen. Well, unless of course if you just decide the vast majority of anime movies don't actually count.
the entire discussion was based on someone bringing up Made in Abyss getting a continuation and someone then pointing out that instead of an s2 it might also be a movie instead.
Which resulted in people going "urg... movie" until someone pointed out that it might be well fit for that format. And me saying that movies (again, in context, what this would turn into if it really would end up a movie instead of a s2) are fine as long as they're like this.
A point Nagi and you keep (in your case) ignoring. The likelyhood of this continuation being a recap of s1 in movieform is... low I'd say. So what point in comparing it to a movie like that when noone in here said they think that's what this is about.
Not that it's impossible but unlikely imo. And if it really happens to be a recap we'll all move on without watching it anyways.
And disregarding recap movies in general is fine. I disregard recap episodes in anime as well. Monogatari s2 was innitially supposed to have 4 episodes "more", they decided to cut an arc out of it after already too far into the planning stages and replaces those 4 episodes with recap episodes and delivered the arc that was cut out as a special.
I don't really consider those 4 recap episodes to be a thing either and I'm sure noone (not in the literal sense of things) has watched them.
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You seem to think I'm someone who knows what Made in Abyss even is. All I know is thst anime series tend to be better than movies
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Canada4481 Posts
On November 28 2017 14:06 Toadesstern wrote:
okay nagi, so let's ignore kizu being 3 and let's say it's 1.5 movies because the movies were short if you look at each one by itself. So you pay 15-20$ to watch all 3 in a cinema and you get to watch 3-4 hours Kizu adaptation nonstop. And Kizu is 1vol
You're saying I'm ignoring points, but you yourself are telling me to ignore certain things to fit your argument.
It wouldn't even be paying $15-20 to watch all 3, it would literally be paying almost $45-60 ($15-20x3 movies) to watch all 3 movies. Wouldn't even be all together. Kizu, according to MAL, was released over the course of a year, 6 months apart. So no, you don't get to pay $15 to watch all 3 together. I haven't even watched 2nd and 3rd because of how long it's been, and I don't care much about it any more.
I said other reasons for why movie sucks, but my main reason, which you also ignored, was that they take longer to become available to us to watch. No one is going to make a trip to Japan just to pay $20 to watch a single movie on release date.
Anime movies either suck, or don't suck content wise based on who's making it, and what it even is. But they all will share the fact that no one over here will be able to see it until about a year later and hopefully a group buys the blu ray to sub it.
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On November 29 2017 08:27 Nagisama wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 14:06 Toadesstern wrote:
okay nagi, so let's ignore kizu being 3 and let's say it's 1.5 movies because the movies were short if you look at each one by itself. So you pay 15-20$ to watch all 3 in a cinema and you get to watch 3-4 hours Kizu adaptation nonstop. And Kizu is 1vol
You're saying I'm ignoring points, but you yourself are telling me to ignore certain things to fit your argument. It wouldn't even be paying $15-20 to watch all 3, it would literally be paying almost $45-60 ($15-20x3 movies) to watch all 3 movies. Wouldn't even be all together. Kizu, according to MAL, was released over the course of a year, 6 months apart. So no, you don't get to pay $15 to watch all 3 together. I haven't even watched 2nd and 3rd because of how long it's been, and I don't care much about it any more. I said other reasons for why movie sucks, but my main reason, which you also ignored, was that they take longer to become available to us to watch. No one is going to make a trip to Japan just to pay $20 to watch a single movie on release date. Anime movies either suck, or don't suck content wise based on who's making it, and what it even is. But they all will share the fact that no one over here will be able to see it until about a year later and hopefully a group buys the blu ray to sub it.
I didn't mention it because I agree on that point. Availability kinda suck for movies. But that's a subjective or case by case thing. I've been to Frankfurt, which roughly equates a 20min trip (40 if we're talking house <>cinema), a couple times to see stuff.
For the most time it's been out within a week or so of JP premiere but cases like Kizu2 exist as well that didn't let me watch it until 3 aired.
On the other hand I could argue that actually getting to watch it in a cinema is shittons better than on TV/monitor. With tons of like-minded weebs around you. But that's also pretty case by case and some people prefer watching at home like Miragee.
For me going out to actually see a movie while it's still airing is definitely a huge plus and something I enjoy a lot.
But I agree overall on that, if you don't have that option because you're living hours away from the next best big city or theres some kind of drama around licensing it it sucks.
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Canada4481 Posts
Then Frankfurt has it better. The last movie that even played out here was Your Name during the summer,1 year after world premiere, and maybe 6 months after JP premiere. The last movie before that was probably Madoka 3, and that was only in 1 theatre, on 1 day.
While you might enjoy watching with like minded weebs, watching Madoka 3 in a theatre full of 4ch /a/nons was cringeworthy at best, and at worst distracting and annoying with random comments during the movie.
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