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I've just read ep 20 review of FSN on ANN. What the actual fuck. How do you even get from UBW to wherever she went to. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
I really don't see how fate is about gender. Never mind the fact that feminism isn't even that big of a force over there.
People are literally making up their own head canon about the Fate/ franchise and they're especially doing it with fate/zero. Considering that fate/zero was released after Fate/stay night and thus can't really be compared since fate/stay wasn't made with zero in mind.
Oh but does anyone know if the heaven's feel realta nua version was co-written by Hikaru Sakurai and Hoshizora Meteor with Nasu? I'm surprised it's the highest rated VN on EGS even over Muv Luv Alternative.
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Fate being about gender? If anything the Fate route would make a feminist's blood boil with how Shirou initially treats Saber.
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Shirou's an idiot though. And the VN points him being an idiot out, multiple times. It's not like the story portrays his behavior as something good, clever or even sensible.
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Another thing, why does she evaluate UBW alone without Heaven's feel considering that they are suppose to be together, not separate. The only reason all three routes aren't jammed into one anime series is because of out-of-control reasons. She even admits that shirou becomes a better guy lol
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@Icehism:
It's not actually about headcanon. The thing that she's doing is she's basically viewing the series from the perspective of feminist literary theory/criticism. When you see it through that lens (or any other), everything becomes centered around the main tenets of the theory she's invoking, which is why you see her describing Shirou as a beta male and the Church as a patriarchal institution (lol). Personally I think she's wrong for doing it like this, and I'm honestly disappointed that since we've parted ways she's decided to embrace everything that I dislike about academia (namely the attention on identity politics).
At least her writing is decent though.
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On May 27 2015 05:23 Zergneedsfood wrote:
@Icehism:
It's not actually about headcanon. The thing that she's doing is she's basically viewing the series from the perspective of feminist literary theory/criticism. When you see it through that lens (or any other), everything becomes centered around the main tenets of the theory she's invoking, which is why you see her describing Shirou as a beta male and the Church as a patriarchal institution (lol). Personally I think she's wrong for doing it like this, and I'm honestly disappointed that since we've parted ways she's decided to embrace everything that I dislike about academia (namely the attention on identity politics).
At least her writing is decent though.
There isn't anything wrong with using a certain perspective when viewing a series, as long as you are upfront with your perspective and acknowledge that it isn't the only lens to view it through. Identity is an important and worthwhile pursuit in the social sciences, though I would agree that it has shifted where it has become the dominant topic that perhaps overshadows other topics since it has become the topic that has more recently come to the forefront.
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Well I think there's a lot right about what she's saying but unfortunately she's viewing it from a particularly perspective instead of just a blank slate which distorts it. A lot of people that read the VN tend to excuse the faults of a route by saying it's that you need to continue on with the other routes but that doesn't really eliminate the faults of the route itself. Anyway aside from her warped perspective she's also giving Nasu way too much credit. F/SN is just not that well written or good of a story, especially when you compare it to F/Z. People keep trying to shove in deeper meaning when really it just isn't there.
The difference in medium also greatly helps F/Z over F/SN. Making such a terrible main character your viewport into the narrative really shits on the rest of the story. One could argue that the story itself is about his journey as a character but that only really works if he's worthwhile as a character(He isn't).
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The thing I dislike the most is how she constantly make a point of having played the game and is well versed with the story, then turn around act surprised when things happen like they happen in the game, and get basic fact wrong. Seems like she tried to be smart and edgy earlier in the review and messed up, got flack for it, then just went full rage yolo mode.
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On May 27 2015 05:33 Numy wrote:
Well I think there's a lot right about what she's saying but unfortunately she's viewing it from a particularly perspective instead of just a blank slate which distorts it. A lot of people that read the VN tend to excuse the faults of a route by saying it's that you need to continue on with the other routes but that doesn't really eliminate the faults of the route itself. Anyway aside from her warped perspective she's also giving Nasu way too much credit. F/SN is just not that well written or good of a story, especially when you compare it to F/Z. People keep trying to shove in deeper meaning when really it just isn't there.
The difference in medium also greatly helps F/Z over F/SN. Making such a terrible main character your viewport into the narrative really shits on the rest of the story. One could argue that the story itself is about his journey as a character but that only really works if he's worthwhile as a character(He isn't).
To be fair I think the MC in F/Z is just as big of an idiot as Shirou is.
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I don't particularly like the MC in F/Z but because it's not a VN and the story isn't given solely from his perspective it doesn't really influence the overall story as much. He's merely one of the main characters. I think only the day 0 was from someone else's POV(Rin) but it's been ages since I played.
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On May 27 2015 05:23 Zergneedsfood wrote:
@Icehism:
It's not actually about headcanon. The thing that she's doing is she's basically viewing the series from the perspective of feminist literary theory/criticism. When you see it through that lens (or any other), everything becomes centered around the main tenets of the theory she's invoking, which is why you see her describing Shirou as a beta male and the Church as a patriarchal institution (lol). Personally I think she's wrong for doing it like this, and I'm honestly disappointed that since we've parted ways she's decided to embrace everything that I dislike about academia (namely the attention on identity politics).
At least her writing is decent though.
I don't think there is anything wrong with identity politics or a feminist lens. But using it on F/SN is just asking to get disappointed and is probably not the best approach. I could get any sort of media and i can probably find a particular lens to view it through to make it look like as if it was total shit. Lastly, the analysis just doesn't hold up with the context of what F/SN was written for. You could argue that author's intent doesn't matter but i guess i'll have to agree to disagree with that.
but hey, we should get a feminist perspective on Mahoyo and see how that holds up lol. Nasu has improved a lot imo.
Also, she used Shirou's quote "Just because you are correct, doesn't mean you are right." While the meaning could be construed to what he said in japanese, i don't think it was the proper translation in that case.
On May 27 2015 05:33 Numy wrote:
The difference in medium also greatly helps F/Z over F/SN. Making such a terrible main character your viewport into the narrative really shits on the rest of the story. One could argue that the story itself is about his journey as a character but that only really works if he's worthwhile as a character(He isn't).
I think standout VNs in general are better written than standout LNs in general actually. Especially in the action genre. Heck, Urobuchi is mainly an eroge writer.
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On May 27 2015 03:43 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 21:21 Miragee wrote:On May 26 2015 20:58 Sentenal wrote:On May 26 2015 16:18 Miragee wrote:
So what I heared about Shiki was right afterall. Nice.
//Oh man Jojo. The first trash fight is already being dragged over 3 episodes? I'm really not liking this so far. : / Trash fight...? Idk what you think Jojo is about, but it really is about the fights. Especially part 3. So if you are expecting something real story driven, the you might be watching the wrong thing. Nah, with trash fights I mean fights against trash enemies I don't care about. I don't suddenly care about enemies only because they throw in 3 minutes of backround story during the fight, lol. You aren't supposed to care about the enemies, mostly. You are supposed to care about the protagonist and how the battles play out. Thats what I mean about how its about the fights.
I could live with that even though I like it way more if I care about the enemy. The problem is, I don't care about the main character enough yet, either. But maybe that will change.
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On May 27 2015 05:33 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 05:23 Zergneedsfood wrote:
@Icehism:
It's not actually about headcanon. The thing that she's doing is she's basically viewing the series from the perspective of feminist literary theory/criticism. When you see it through that lens (or any other), everything becomes centered around the main tenets of the theory she's invoking, which is why you see her describing Shirou as a beta male and the Church as a patriarchal institution (lol). Personally I think she's wrong for doing it like this, and I'm honestly disappointed that since we've parted ways she's decided to embrace everything that I dislike about academia (namely the attention on identity politics).
At least her writing is decent though. There isn't anything wrong with using a certain perspective when viewing a series, as long as you are upfront with your perspective and acknowledge that it isn't the only lens to view it through. Identity is an important and worthwhile pursuit in the social sciences, though I would agree that it has shifted where it has become the dominant topic that perhaps overshadows other topics since it has become the topic that has more recently come to the forefront.
Sure. I should have specified that what I really meant was specific to literary/film theory, where I feel people are getting too much into trying to get every work to be politically correct rather than talking about the literary merits/faults of the work in question.
On May 27 2015 05:50 IceHism wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 05:23 Zergneedsfood wrote:
@Icehism:
It's not actually about headcanon. The thing that she's doing is she's basically viewing the series from the perspective of feminist literary theory/criticism. When you see it through that lens (or any other), everything becomes centered around the main tenets of the theory she's invoking, which is why you see her describing Shirou as a beta male and the Church as a patriarchal institution (lol). Personally I think she's wrong for doing it like this, and I'm honestly disappointed that since we've parted ways she's decided to embrace everything that I dislike about academia (namely the attention on identity politics).
At least her writing is decent though. I don't think there is anything wrong with identity politics or a feminist lens.
I don't think so either. My post is just lamenting that there's too much of it.
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Eh, mostly a run of the mill action harem show. It gets points for style though.
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I don't really know what other VN/LN have to do with Fate series. To me F/SN feels like a story that was written for a different medium then cut up and shoved into a VN. There's no real reason to split his development over 3 separate routes that all begin at the same point. The fact that you have to "repeat" the story 3 times to finally get resolution for him just feels odd. If it was one story than the development would be more coherent and satisfying to read. Instead it gets all muddled up by splitting it over 3 alternate parallel stories. At the same time the idea of having alternate parallel stories is pretty cool but it's not really explored in F/SN, it's more an afterthought than the main purpose I feel. I don't know if he set out to make a VN and just didn't do that great a job or if it was something that changed later.
The VN medium itself I think is perfectly fine and there are a lot of really well done VN out there. F/SN to me just isn't one of the really well written ones. I like the story, I like the world and I like some of the characters but overall I can't say it's that great. That doesn't mean the medium itself can't be good if something is written and designed for it.
LN I can't really rate that well. Most of what I read I find pretty poorly written but I don't know if that's just due to the nature of translating it or if it's actually poor. Could also be the stuff I've been reading has generally been pretty trashy lol. I think Horizon is the best I've read and that I largely got annoyed at the translation.
@ZNF - Only noticed your signature now :<. No wonder I'm getting warnings, Neo-senpai lurks in the shadows.
On May 27 2015 05:59 Sentenal wrote:Eh, mostly a run of the mill action harem show. It gets points for style though.
As long as it's stylish trashy fun I can handle.
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On May 27 2015 06:04 Numy wrote:@ZNF - Only noticed your signature now :<. No wonder I'm getting warnings, Neo-senpai lurks in the shadows.
It made me laugh. Good post bruh :3
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On May 27 2015 06:04 Numy wrote:I don't really know what other VN/LN have to do with Fate series. To me F/SN feels like a story that was written for a different medium then cut up and shoved into a VN. There's no real reason to split his development over 3 separate routes that all begin at the same point. The fact that you have to "repeat" the story 3 times to finally get resolution for him just feels odd. If it was one story than the development would be more coherent and satisfying to read. Instead it gets all muddled up by splitting it over 3 alternate parallel stories. At the same time the idea of having alternate parallel stories is pretty cool but it's not really explored in F/SN, it's more an afterthought than the main purpose I feel. I don't know if he set out to make a VN and just didn't do that great a job or if it was something that changed later. The VN medium itself I think is perfectly fine and there are a lot of really well done VN out there. F/SN to me just isn't one of the really well written ones. I like the story, I like the world and I like some of the characters but overall I can't say it's that great. That doesn't mean the medium itself can't be good if something is written and designed for it. LN I can't really rate that well. Most of what I read I find pretty poorly written but I don't know if that's just due to the nature of translating it or if it's actually poor. Could also be the stuff I've been reading has generally been pretty trashy lol. I think Horizon is the best I've read and that I largely got annoyed at the translation. @ZNF - Only noticed your signature now :<. No wonder I'm getting warnings, Neo-senpai lurks in the shadows. Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 05:59 Sentenal wrote:Eh, mostly a run of the mill action harem show. It gets points for style though. As long as it's stylish trashy fun I can handle.
Its visually stylish. You'll see when/if you watch it.
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On May 27 2015 06:04 Numy wrote:I don't really know what other VN/LN have to do with Fate series. To me F/SN feels like a story that was written for a different medium then cut up and shoved into a VN. There's no real reason to split his development over 3 separate routes that all begin at the same point. The fact that you have to "repeat" the story 3 times to finally get resolution for him just feels odd. If it was one story than the development would be more coherent and satisfying to read. Instead it gets all muddled up by splitting it over 3 alternate parallel stories. At the same time the idea of having alternate parallel stories is pretty cool but it's not really explored in F/SN, it's more an afterthought than the main purpose I feel. I don't know if he set out to make a VN and just didn't do that great a job or if it was something that changed later. The VN medium itself I think is perfectly fine and there are a lot of really well done VN out there. F/SN to me just isn't one of the really well written ones. I like the story, I like the world and I like some of the characters but overall I can't say it's that great. That doesn't mean the medium itself can't be good if something is written and designed for it. LN I can't really rate that well. Most of what I read I find pretty poorly written but I don't know if that's just due to the nature of translating it or if it's actually poor. Could also be the stuff I've been reading has generally been pretty trashy lol. I think Horizon is the best I've read and that I largely got annoyed at the translation. @ZNF - Only noticed your signature now :<. No wonder I'm getting warnings, Neo-senpai lurks in the shadows. Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 05:59 Sentenal wrote:Eh, mostly a run of the mill action harem show. It gets points for style though. As long as it's stylish trashy fun I can handle.
I do think it was made to be a VN since type moon was just a small doujin group at the time. What were they gonna sell if it wasn't a manga? And i don't think Nasu likes to write mangas that much.
And i do think that the parallel story thing was a huge oversight and was a mistake that nasu realized later.
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Canada4481 Posts
Yamada-kun so gud. Feels like it's going a mile a minute though. Sarushima and Shiraiashi :3
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7 episodes into Zankyou no Terror and wtf am I watching? lol
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EPT
