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On September 03 2012 04:57 ragz_gt wrote:
I'd say Keroro Gunso and Gintama are really good. But yeah, they fail at anything that fail at deep plotline.
Gintama is really easy to copy paste though, anime didn't really have to do much in particular. Keroro Gunso is also in the same boat. Both also have ample amount of time and money pumped into them and don't have much in the ways of pecularity.
If Kyoani can turn down LB because they want to focus on making money with quality moe products, whatever that is, then Sunrise totally can turn down Horizon.
On September 03 2012 04:59 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 04:50 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:39 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:38 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:33 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:24 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:16 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 03:56 Sentenal wrote:
No, it is dialogue-heavy show compared to another anime in general. Not simply Sunrise shows. You would have to be retarded to think otherwise. Also Uta, you are really good at cherry-picking stuff out of discussions and ignoring points. Note how I was specific about how they can't do it when they can't copy and paste the source material. Since you've never seen Seikai's source, you'll just have to take my word for it. They C&P'd it and the source just requires minimal effort to animate well. Seikai is pretty dialogue heavy in general, but in comparison to Horizon lol, it doesn't even compare. All of Seikai stuff out so far are about as long as one vol of Horizon. Alright, I'll take your word on it on Seikai. I still don't see Horizon being rushed the way it is as being the fault of the studio itself, rather than being the fault of the staff chosen to do the animation. If its the studio itself, its sound as if you are saying there is some standard at Sunrise that says "dialogue must be cut for the sake of time!" etc etc. As far as how directors and such move around, they do. The guy directing Horizon is Ono Manabu, right? Prior to Horizon he directed Saki with Gonzo, and A-Channel with Aniplex. Is it Sunrises' fault that they picked this guy to direct it? Yeah, but beyond the actual selection of this dude to direct it, don't you think that more blame for how Horizon has been handled should be given to him, rather than blanket dumping it on the entire studio? So an organization is free of blame for the employee they choose to hire? I like that logic. That's not what I said, and you can even see in that post you quoted they aren't free of blame. I'm saying there should be shared blame, while all of your complaints is practically excusing the employee (the staff they hired in this case) for their work. The employees also share blame in that they are hired by Sunrise and turned the project into fail, happy? I mean, I pretty much hate on the entire Horizon project, what more do you want. Specifically calling out staff names and going omg h4teh4te? Blaming the entire company of stuff you don't like in Horizon is like blaming the studio doing Gundam Unicorn or Age for stuff going bad in Horizon. Thus why I'm like "wtf why are you blaming the entire company". Because the entire company sucks and hasn't really managed to produce anything good that isn't called Gundam? I can respect Gundam, I can't respect anything else they do really, good thing they don't do anything else in particular nowadays. Horizon is a case of horrible project management from Sunrise. I don't know what makes them think that it would be a good idea to do it as one cour show, but they did it anyway. Honestly, if anything, their success w/ Gundam should be used to bitch even more about them. You are doing multiple movie level works in Unicorn, you are doing a ummm...4? cour show in Age. If you are financially limited by that, why do Horizon? If you aren't used to doing shows like Horizon, why pick it up? I might not like the shit that kyoani has been pumping out lately, but I can respect how they refuse to do FMP and LB in order to keep a level of quality for the things that they do animate. You pick what you can do and put the money and effort into it. If you fail to do that, then as an organization you have failed. I'm not even gonna start about the "they can't do anything other than Gundam", which is just untrue lol. Horizon's problems aren't budget problems. Sunrise doesn't even know what a money/budget problems is, with all the different cash cow shows they have (Gundam, Code Geass, Tiger and Bunny). Horizon's problems in direction, not funding or budget. I'll say it again, blaming the entire studio for things you don't like about Horizon is crazy.
You realize that T&B in the end turned into fujyoshi bait, CG is little different from gundam style wise. Great successes with lots of money, why aren't you pumping it back into your new projects?
If they have no budget problems then Horizon should totally be 2 cour at the very least. Why are they going back to single cour late night animes? Studio pay for the amount of airing time they want, at the point that they decided to do 1 cour Horizon for whatever reason, they have failed pretty damned hard. The reason doesn't really matter to me, if they don't have money, they shouldn't have picked up horizon. If they did have money and they didn't blow it on Horizon, what's the good of having money?
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On September 03 2012 04:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i gotta question, is there any anime that doesn't have lame backstories?
like, a character that doesn't have some really lame and really depressing backstory that has to be dwelled upon for like fifteen episodes? or possibly even a show where the really lame and depressing backstories are shown, rather than straight up told?
it just seems like the entire medium is focused around creating a character and then showing me every bad thing that has ever happened to them in long ass, boring flashbacks.
It you want a show without backstories go watch K-on
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On September 03 2012 05:01 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 04:57 ragz_gt wrote:
I'd say Keroro Gunso and Gintama are really good. But yeah, they fail at anything that fail at deep plotline. Gintama is really easy to copy paste though, anime didn't really have to do much in particular. Keroro Gunso is also in the same boat. Both also have ample amount of time and money pumped into them and don't have much in the ways of pecularity. If Kyoani can turn down LB because they want to focus on making money with quality moe products, whatever that is, then Sunrise totally can turn down Horizon. Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 04:59 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:50 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:39 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:38 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:33 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:24 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:16 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 03:56 Sentenal wrote:
No, it is dialogue-heavy show compared to another anime in general. Not simply Sunrise shows. You would have to be retarded to think otherwise. Also Uta, you are really good at cherry-picking stuff out of discussions and ignoring points. Note how I was specific about how they can't do it when they can't copy and paste the source material. Since you've never seen Seikai's source, you'll just have to take my word for it. They C&P'd it and the source just requires minimal effort to animate well. Seikai is pretty dialogue heavy in general, but in comparison to Horizon lol, it doesn't even compare. All of Seikai stuff out so far are about as long as one vol of Horizon. Alright, I'll take your word on it on Seikai. I still don't see Horizon being rushed the way it is as being the fault of the studio itself, rather than being the fault of the staff chosen to do the animation. If its the studio itself, its sound as if you are saying there is some standard at Sunrise that says "dialogue must be cut for the sake of time!" etc etc. As far as how directors and such move around, they do. The guy directing Horizon is Ono Manabu, right? Prior to Horizon he directed Saki with Gonzo, and A-Channel with Aniplex. Is it Sunrises' fault that they picked this guy to direct it? Yeah, but beyond the actual selection of this dude to direct it, don't you think that more blame for how Horizon has been handled should be given to him, rather than blanket dumping it on the entire studio? So an organization is free of blame for the employee they choose to hire? I like that logic. That's not what I said, and you can even see in that post you quoted they aren't free of blame. I'm saying there should be shared blame, while all of your complaints is practically excusing the employee (the staff they hired in this case) for their work. The employees also share blame in that they are hired by Sunrise and turned the project into fail, happy? I mean, I pretty much hate on the entire Horizon project, what more do you want. Specifically calling out staff names and going omg h4teh4te? Blaming the entire company of stuff you don't like in Horizon is like blaming the studio doing Gundam Unicorn or Age for stuff going bad in Horizon. Thus why I'm like "wtf why are you blaming the entire company". Because the entire company sucks and hasn't really managed to produce anything good that isn't called Gundam? I can respect Gundam, I can't respect anything else they do really, good thing they don't do anything else in particular nowadays. Horizon is a case of horrible project management from Sunrise. I don't know what makes them think that it would be a good idea to do it as one cour show, but they did it anyway. Honestly, if anything, their success w/ Gundam should be used to bitch even more about them. You are doing multiple movie level works in Unicorn, you are doing a ummm...4? cour show in Age. If you are financially limited by that, why do Horizon? If you aren't used to doing shows like Horizon, why pick it up? I might not like the shit that kyoani has been pumping out lately, but I can respect how they refuse to do FMP and LB in order to keep a level of quality for the things that they do animate. You pick what you can do and put the money and effort into it. If you fail to do that, then as an organization you have failed. I'm not even gonna start about the "they can't do anything other than Gundam", which is just untrue lol. Horizon's problems aren't budget problems. Sunrise doesn't even know what a money/budget problems is, with all the different cash cow shows they have (Gundam, Code Geass, Tiger and Bunny). Horizon's problems in direction, not funding or budget. I'll say it again, blaming the entire studio for things you don't like about Horizon is crazy. You realize that T&B in the end turned into fujyoshi bait, CG is little different from gundam style wise. If they have no budget problems then Horizon should totally be 2 cour at the very least. Why are they going back to single cour late night animes? Studio pay for the amount of airing time they want, at the point that they decided to do 1 cour Horizon for whatever reason, they have failed pretty damned hard.
Well, I wasn't really commenting on their quality, just that they are cash cows. Which can't really be argued against. Those 3 franchises practically print money for Sunrise.
If you want to see what happens when you actually have a show with budget problems, look at MLA:Total Eclipse. Compare that to Horizon, and the budget of Horizon shits all over TE.
As far as Horizon goes, it is 2 cour. We knew a 2nd cour was coming before the first season was even completed. I dunno why they decided to split them up, but that seems all the rage now day with studios anyway, so meh. The problem with Horizon is that they tryed to cram like 2-3 cour worth of material into the first season, and are doing it again for the next. Which again, is a problem with direction.
If they did have money and they didn't blow it on Horizon, what's the good of having money?
Really?
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On September 03 2012 05:01 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 04:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i gotta question, is there any anime that doesn't have lame backstories?
like, a character that doesn't have some really lame and really depressing backstory that has to be dwelled upon for like fifteen episodes? or possibly even a show where the really lame and depressing backstories are shown, rather than straight up told?
it just seems like the entire medium is focused around creating a character and then showing me every bad thing that has ever happened to them in long ass, boring flashbacks. It you want a show without backstories go watch K-on
warning though it's also a show without plot
+ Show Spoiler +inb4 flame, sweet sweet flame
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On September 03 2012 05:13 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 05:01 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:57 ragz_gt wrote:
I'd say Keroro Gunso and Gintama are really good. But yeah, they fail at anything that fail at deep plotline. Gintama is really easy to copy paste though, anime didn't really have to do much in particular. Keroro Gunso is also in the same boat. Both also have ample amount of time and money pumped into them and don't have much in the ways of pecularity. If Kyoani can turn down LB because they want to focus on making money with quality moe products, whatever that is, then Sunrise totally can turn down Horizon. On September 03 2012 04:59 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:50 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:39 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:38 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:33 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:24 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:16 Ecael wrote:
[quote]
Note how I was specific about how they can't do it when they can't copy and paste the source material. Since you've never seen Seikai's source, you'll just have to take my word for it. They C&P'd it and the source just requires minimal effort to animate well.
Seikai is pretty dialogue heavy in general, but in comparison to Horizon lol, it doesn't even compare. All of Seikai stuff out so far are about as long as one vol of Horizon. Alright, I'll take your word on it on Seikai. I still don't see Horizon being rushed the way it is as being the fault of the studio itself, rather than being the fault of the staff chosen to do the animation. If its the studio itself, its sound as if you are saying there is some standard at Sunrise that says "dialogue must be cut for the sake of time!" etc etc. As far as how directors and such move around, they do. The guy directing Horizon is Ono Manabu, right? Prior to Horizon he directed Saki with Gonzo, and A-Channel with Aniplex. Is it Sunrises' fault that they picked this guy to direct it? Yeah, but beyond the actual selection of this dude to direct it, don't you think that more blame for how Horizon has been handled should be given to him, rather than blanket dumping it on the entire studio? So an organization is free of blame for the employee they choose to hire? I like that logic. That's not what I said, and you can even see in that post you quoted they aren't free of blame. I'm saying there should be shared blame, while all of your complaints is practically excusing the employee (the staff they hired in this case) for their work. The employees also share blame in that they are hired by Sunrise and turned the project into fail, happy? I mean, I pretty much hate on the entire Horizon project, what more do you want. Specifically calling out staff names and going omg h4teh4te? Blaming the entire company of stuff you don't like in Horizon is like blaming the studio doing Gundam Unicorn or Age for stuff going bad in Horizon. Thus why I'm like "wtf why are you blaming the entire company". Because the entire company sucks and hasn't really managed to produce anything good that isn't called Gundam? I can respect Gundam, I can't respect anything else they do really, good thing they don't do anything else in particular nowadays. Horizon is a case of horrible project management from Sunrise. I don't know what makes them think that it would be a good idea to do it as one cour show, but they did it anyway. Honestly, if anything, their success w/ Gundam should be used to bitch even more about them. You are doing multiple movie level works in Unicorn, you are doing a ummm...4? cour show in Age. If you are financially limited by that, why do Horizon? If you aren't used to doing shows like Horizon, why pick it up? I might not like the shit that kyoani has been pumping out lately, but I can respect how they refuse to do FMP and LB in order to keep a level of quality for the things that they do animate. You pick what you can do and put the money and effort into it. If you fail to do that, then as an organization you have failed. I'm not even gonna start about the "they can't do anything other than Gundam", which is just untrue lol. Horizon's problems aren't budget problems. Sunrise doesn't even know what a money/budget problems is, with all the different cash cow shows they have (Gundam, Code Geass, Tiger and Bunny). Horizon's problems in direction, not funding or budget. I'll say it again, blaming the entire studio for things you don't like about Horizon is crazy. You realize that T&B in the end turned into fujyoshi bait, CG is little different from gundam style wise. If they have no budget problems then Horizon should totally be 2 cour at the very least. Why are they going back to single cour late night animes? Studio pay for the amount of airing time they want, at the point that they decided to do 1 cour Horizon for whatever reason, they have failed pretty damned hard. Well, I wasn't really commenting on their quality, just that they are cash cows. Which can't really be argued against. Those 3 franchises practically print money for Sunrise. If you want to see what happens when you actually have a show with budget problems, look at MLA:Total Eclipse. Compare that to Horizon, and the budget of Horizon shits all over TE. As far as Horizon goes, it is 2 cour. We knew a 2nd cour was coming before the first season was even completed. I dunno why they decided to split them up, but that seems all the rage now day with studios anyway, so meh. The problem with Horizon is that they tryed to cram like 2-3 cour worth of material into the first season, and are doing it again for the next. Which again, is a problem with direction. Show nested quote +If they did have money and they didn't blow it on Horizon, what's the good of having money? Really?
Yes, really. Again, look at Kyoani. Take shit source, put effort and moe, get hit. You might not like the shit that they turn out, but they certainly managed to make a success of them. Look at the shit that was Hyouka, now put in eye porn by dumping money into it, put in moe, get great success. That's what good project management is, take shit, polish it up, get better. Sunrise simply hasn't demonstrated any success at the whole polishing part. The things that it manages to do good with has much more to do with source material than it does the studio's efforts. It has some original materials that turned out well, that's great and all, so keep to original stuff and don't bother adapting things you aren't used to doing please.
lol TE budget blows, doesn't really excuse Horizon budget, which is pretty shit too. If you want, go pester uta about how much animation they reuse even from season 1. Season 2 so far has been nonstop rerused frames without even any attempt to disguise them. Though I guess it still looks better than TE, good job, you managed to look better than shit? I really don't give a damn about animation quality as long as it isn't too bad though, so that was one thing I never really complained about personally, more of Uta's thing really. The style doesn't really fit, but whatever, I can live with that.
Cramming 2~3 cours of material into 1 is a problem with everything, except the studio and project management should be responsible for buying airtime. Given how other studios have operated, the completion of animation is well after the decision on both the time slot and length of airing. So the limitation is something that's placed on the project well before anything they can do about it.
To get back more to the original point of what this is all about though. Horizon is foreign territory for Sunrise. Even before season one, my point had been that the studio can turn out things that are fine, it simply can't do well with Horizon. Now 1.75 seasons in, they have managed to break my then low standards to get me into hating them for shitting on a good work. So not only is the studio doing something it isn't used to doing, it is also doing a really shit job of it. Like...what do you want me to blame? The staff obviously sucked for various things from storyboarding to animation. The amount of time given to the show is lacking, and that's something that is decided very early on in a project. There just isn't really an aspect that I can call redeeming about the show other than like, seiyuu. So...what are you going to blame? If there was something easy to blame, like with CG season 1 and 2 and the change of staff, that'd be a pretty good scapegoat. Except Horizon is just low quality throughout. With TV shows, more often than not, the channel/studio gets the blame for everything. If something goes wrong w/ Doctor Who, people will blame BBC unless the problem was specific enough for you to pinpoint it. In the case of an entire project failing though, the organization taking the blame is nothing unreasonable.
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Hyouka is polished shit. I failed miserably at visualizing that thank god.
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On September 03 2012 05:21 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 05:13 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 05:01 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:57 ragz_gt wrote:
I'd say Keroro Gunso and Gintama are really good. But yeah, they fail at anything that fail at deep plotline. Gintama is really easy to copy paste though, anime didn't really have to do much in particular. Keroro Gunso is also in the same boat. Both also have ample amount of time and money pumped into them and don't have much in the ways of pecularity. If Kyoani can turn down LB because they want to focus on making money with quality moe products, whatever that is, then Sunrise totally can turn down Horizon. On September 03 2012 04:59 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:50 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:39 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:38 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:33 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:24 Sentenal wrote:
[quote]
Alright, I'll take your word on it on Seikai. I still don't see Horizon being rushed the way it is as being the fault of the studio itself, rather than being the fault of the staff chosen to do the animation. If its the studio itself, its sound as if you are saying there is some standard at Sunrise that says "dialogue must be cut for the sake of time!" etc etc.
As far as how directors and such move around, they do. The guy directing Horizon is Ono Manabu, right? Prior to Horizon he directed Saki with Gonzo, and A-Channel with Aniplex. Is it Sunrises' fault that they picked this guy to direct it? Yeah, but beyond the actual selection of this dude to direct it, don't you think that more blame for how Horizon has been handled should be given to him, rather than blanket dumping it on the entire studio? So an organization is free of blame for the employee they choose to hire? I like that logic. That's not what I said, and you can even see in that post you quoted they aren't free of blame. I'm saying there should be shared blame, while all of your complaints is practically excusing the employee (the staff they hired in this case) for their work. The employees also share blame in that they are hired by Sunrise and turned the project into fail, happy? I mean, I pretty much hate on the entire Horizon project, what more do you want. Specifically calling out staff names and going omg h4teh4te? Blaming the entire company of stuff you don't like in Horizon is like blaming the studio doing Gundam Unicorn or Age for stuff going bad in Horizon. Thus why I'm like "wtf why are you blaming the entire company". Because the entire company sucks and hasn't really managed to produce anything good that isn't called Gundam? I can respect Gundam, I can't respect anything else they do really, good thing they don't do anything else in particular nowadays. Horizon is a case of horrible project management from Sunrise. I don't know what makes them think that it would be a good idea to do it as one cour show, but they did it anyway. Honestly, if anything, their success w/ Gundam should be used to bitch even more about them. You are doing multiple movie level works in Unicorn, you are doing a ummm...4? cour show in Age. If you are financially limited by that, why do Horizon? If you aren't used to doing shows like Horizon, why pick it up? I might not like the shit that kyoani has been pumping out lately, but I can respect how they refuse to do FMP and LB in order to keep a level of quality for the things that they do animate. You pick what you can do and put the money and effort into it. If you fail to do that, then as an organization you have failed. I'm not even gonna start about the "they can't do anything other than Gundam", which is just untrue lol. Horizon's problems aren't budget problems. Sunrise doesn't even know what a money/budget problems is, with all the different cash cow shows they have (Gundam, Code Geass, Tiger and Bunny). Horizon's problems in direction, not funding or budget. I'll say it again, blaming the entire studio for things you don't like about Horizon is crazy. You realize that T&B in the end turned into fujyoshi bait, CG is little different from gundam style wise. If they have no budget problems then Horizon should totally be 2 cour at the very least. Why are they going back to single cour late night animes? Studio pay for the amount of airing time they want, at the point that they decided to do 1 cour Horizon for whatever reason, they have failed pretty damned hard. Well, I wasn't really commenting on their quality, just that they are cash cows. Which can't really be argued against. Those 3 franchises practically print money for Sunrise. If you want to see what happens when you actually have a show with budget problems, look at MLA:Total Eclipse. Compare that to Horizon, and the budget of Horizon shits all over TE. As far as Horizon goes, it is 2 cour. We knew a 2nd cour was coming before the first season was even completed. I dunno why they decided to split them up, but that seems all the rage now day with studios anyway, so meh. The problem with Horizon is that they tryed to cram like 2-3 cour worth of material into the first season, and are doing it again for the next. Which again, is a problem with direction. If they did have money and they didn't blow it on Horizon, what's the good of having money? Really? Yes, really. Again, look at Kyoani. Take shit source, put effort and moe, get hit. You might not like the shit that they turn out, but they certainly managed to make a success of them. Look at the shit that was Hyouka, now put in eye porn by dumping money into it, put in moe, get great success. That's what good project management is, take shit, polish it up, get better. Sunrise simply hasn't demonstrated any success at the whole polishing part. The things that it manages to do good with has much more to do with source material than it does the studio's efforts. It has some original materials that turned out well, that's great and all, so keep to original stuff and don't bother adapting things you aren't used to doing please. lol TE budget blows, doesn't really excuse Horizon budget, which is pretty shit too. If you want, go pester uta about how much animation they reuse even from season 1. Season 2 so far has been nonstop rerused frames without even any attempt to disguise them. Though I guess it still looks better than TE, good job, you managed to look better than shit? I really don't give a damn about animation quality as long as it isn't too bad though, so that was one thing I never really complained about personally, more of Uta's thing really. The style doesn't really fit, but whatever, I can live with that. Cramming 2~3 cours of material into 1 is a problem with everything, except the studio and project management should be responsible for buying airtime. Given how other studios have operated, the completion of animation is well after the decision on both the time slot and length of airing. So the limitation is something that's placed on the project well before anything they can do about it.
Sunrise is a big studio, and has tons of other projects they are doing other than Horizon, many of which are have a higher priority. Dumping it all on Horizon would have been retarded from a business perspective.
Also, how did the Horizon season 1 BDs sell? I never heard after the first season aired. If Kyoani shows can succeed based off of nothing but pure moe, I'd imagine Horizon can sell well enough based off of tits and ass.
I agree about animation quality (how could I not, I still enjoy TE despite its shoestring budget), but when you start talking about an anime's budget, if there are budget problems, you see most easily in the animation. And Horizon doesn't have nearly the amount of QUALITY that you would expect out of an actual low budget anime.
If Horizon's length was determined long before animation of it was completed (I'll take your word for it, since I'm not an expert on the development cycle for anime), then that sounds all the more like a problem with direction. So if I understand you right, first Sunrise would be responsibly for putting together the staff to make it. And then they buy the airtime for it. But regardless of the order of those two, they happen first. And then they work on animating it, right? If they knew they only had 1-2 seasons worth of episodes, and yet they still decided to cram as much in there as they did, thats the director's fault for being retarded.
To get back more to the original point of what this is all about though. Horizon is foreign territory for Sunrise. Even before season one, my point had been that the studio can turn out things that are fine, it simply can't do well with Horizon. Now 1.75 seasons in, they have managed to break my then low standards to get me into hating them for shitting on a good work. So not only is the studio doing something it isn't used to doing, it is also doing a really shit job of it. Like...what do you want me to blame? The staff obviously sucked for various things from storyboarding to animation. The amount of time given to the show is lacking, and that's something that is decided very early on in a project. There just isn't really an aspect that I can call redeeming about the show other than like, seiyuu. So...what are you going to blame? If there was something easy to blame, like with CG season 1 and 2 and the change of staff, that'd be a pretty good scapegoat. Except Horizon is just low quality throughout. With TV shows, more often than not, the channel/studio gets the blame for everything. If something goes wrong w/ Doctor Who, people will blame BBC unless the problem was specific enough for you to pinpoint it. In the case of an entire project failing though, the organization taking the blame is nothing unreasonable.
Eh... Well, I guess I can sorta see your point. I still think its kinda unfair, but whatever, not really working continuing going around in circles like this, and my initial question has been answered.
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On September 03 2012 04:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i gotta question, is there any anime that doesn't have lame backstories?
like, a character that doesn't have some really lame and really depressing backstory that has to be dwelled upon for like fifteen episodes? or possibly even a show where the really lame and depressing backstories are shown, rather than straight up told?
it just seems like the entire medium is focused around creating a character and then showing me every bad thing that has ever happened to them in long ass, boring flashbacks.
Well, you can go for Lucky Star
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On September 03 2012 05:42 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 05:21 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 05:13 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 05:01 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:57 ragz_gt wrote:
I'd say Keroro Gunso and Gintama are really good. But yeah, they fail at anything that fail at deep plotline. Gintama is really easy to copy paste though, anime didn't really have to do much in particular. Keroro Gunso is also in the same boat. Both also have ample amount of time and money pumped into them and don't have much in the ways of pecularity. If Kyoani can turn down LB because they want to focus on making money with quality moe products, whatever that is, then Sunrise totally can turn down Horizon. On September 03 2012 04:59 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:50 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:39 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:38 Ecael wrote:On September 03 2012 04:35 Sentenal wrote:On September 03 2012 04:33 Ecael wrote:
[quote]
So an organization is free of blame for the employee they choose to hire? I like that logic. That's not what I said, and you can even see in that post you quoted they aren't free of blame. I'm saying there should be shared blame, while all of your complaints is practically excusing the employee (the staff they hired in this case) for their work. The employees also share blame in that they are hired by Sunrise and turned the project into fail, happy? I mean, I pretty much hate on the entire Horizon project, what more do you want. Specifically calling out staff names and going omg h4teh4te? Blaming the entire company of stuff you don't like in Horizon is like blaming the studio doing Gundam Unicorn or Age for stuff going bad in Horizon. Thus why I'm like "wtf why are you blaming the entire company". Because the entire company sucks and hasn't really managed to produce anything good that isn't called Gundam? I can respect Gundam, I can't respect anything else they do really, good thing they don't do anything else in particular nowadays. Horizon is a case of horrible project management from Sunrise. I don't know what makes them think that it would be a good idea to do it as one cour show, but they did it anyway. Honestly, if anything, their success w/ Gundam should be used to bitch even more about them. You are doing multiple movie level works in Unicorn, you are doing a ummm...4? cour show in Age. If you are financially limited by that, why do Horizon? If you aren't used to doing shows like Horizon, why pick it up? I might not like the shit that kyoani has been pumping out lately, but I can respect how they refuse to do FMP and LB in order to keep a level of quality for the things that they do animate. You pick what you can do and put the money and effort into it. If you fail to do that, then as an organization you have failed. I'm not even gonna start about the "they can't do anything other than Gundam", which is just untrue lol. Horizon's problems aren't budget problems. Sunrise doesn't even know what a money/budget problems is, with all the different cash cow shows they have (Gundam, Code Geass, Tiger and Bunny). Horizon's problems in direction, not funding or budget. I'll say it again, blaming the entire studio for things you don't like about Horizon is crazy. You realize that T&B in the end turned into fujyoshi bait, CG is little different from gundam style wise. If they have no budget problems then Horizon should totally be 2 cour at the very least. Why are they going back to single cour late night animes? Studio pay for the amount of airing time they want, at the point that they decided to do 1 cour Horizon for whatever reason, they have failed pretty damned hard. Well, I wasn't really commenting on their quality, just that they are cash cows. Which can't really be argued against. Those 3 franchises practically print money for Sunrise. If you want to see what happens when you actually have a show with budget problems, look at MLA:Total Eclipse. Compare that to Horizon, and the budget of Horizon shits all over TE. As far as Horizon goes, it is 2 cour. We knew a 2nd cour was coming before the first season was even completed. I dunno why they decided to split them up, but that seems all the rage now day with studios anyway, so meh. The problem with Horizon is that they tryed to cram like 2-3 cour worth of material into the first season, and are doing it again for the next. Which again, is a problem with direction. If they did have money and they didn't blow it on Horizon, what's the good of having money? Really? Yes, really. Again, look at Kyoani. Take shit source, put effort and moe, get hit. You might not like the shit that they turn out, but they certainly managed to make a success of them. Look at the shit that was Hyouka, now put in eye porn by dumping money into it, put in moe, get great success. That's what good project management is, take shit, polish it up, get better. Sunrise simply hasn't demonstrated any success at the whole polishing part. The things that it manages to do good with has much more to do with source material than it does the studio's efforts. It has some original materials that turned out well, that's great and all, so keep to original stuff and don't bother adapting things you aren't used to doing please. lol TE budget blows, doesn't really excuse Horizon budget, which is pretty shit too. If you want, go pester uta about how much animation they reuse even from season 1. Season 2 so far has been nonstop rerused frames without even any attempt to disguise them. Though I guess it still looks better than TE, good job, you managed to look better than shit? I really don't give a damn about animation quality as long as it isn't too bad though, so that was one thing I never really complained about personally, more of Uta's thing really. The style doesn't really fit, but whatever, I can live with that. Cramming 2~3 cours of material into 1 is a problem with everything, except the studio and project management should be responsible for buying airtime. Given how other studios have operated, the completion of animation is well after the decision on both the time slot and length of airing. So the limitation is something that's placed on the project well before anything they can do about it. Sunrise is a big studio, and has tons of other projects they are doing other than Horizon, many of which are have a higher priority. Dumping it all on Horizon would have been retarded from a business perspective. Also, how did the Horizon season 1 BDs sell? I never heard after the first season aired. If Kyoani shows can succeed based off of nothing but pure moe, I'd imagine Horizon can sell well enough based off of tits and ass. I agree about animation quality (how could I not, I still enjoy TE despite its shoestring budget), but when you start talking about an anime's budget, if there are budget problems, you see most easily in the animation. And Horizon doesn't have nearly the amount of QUALITY that you would expect out of an actual low budget anime. If Horizon's length was determined long before animation of it was completed (I'll take your word for it, since I'm not an expert on the development cycle for anime), then that sounds all the more like a problem with direction. So if I understand you right, first Sunrise would be responsibly for putting together the staff to make it. And then they buy the airtime for it. But regardless of the order of those two, they happen first. And then they work on animating it, right? If they knew they only had 1-2 seasons worth of episodes, and yet they still decided to cram as much in there as they did, thats the director's fault for being retarded. Show nested quote +To get back more to the original point of what this is all about though. Horizon is foreign territory for Sunrise. Even before season one, my point had been that the studio can turn out things that are fine, it simply can't do well with Horizon. Now 1.75 seasons in, they have managed to break my then low standards to get me into hating them for shitting on a good work. So not only is the studio doing something it isn't used to doing, it is also doing a really shit job of it. Like...what do you want me to blame? The staff obviously sucked for various things from storyboarding to animation. The amount of time given to the show is lacking, and that's something that is decided very early on in a project. There just isn't really an aspect that I can call redeeming about the show other than like, seiyuu. So...what are you going to blame? If there was something easy to blame, like with CG season 1 and 2 and the change of staff, that'd be a pretty good scapegoat. Except Horizon is just low quality throughout. With TV shows, more often than not, the channel/studio gets the blame for everything. If something goes wrong w/ Doctor Who, people will blame BBC unless the problem was specific enough for you to pinpoint it. In the case of an entire project failing though, the organization taking the blame is nothing unreasonable. Eh... Well, I guess I can sorta see your point. I still think its kinda unfair, but whatever, not really working continuing going around in circles like this, and my initial question has been answered.
So take a hint from Kyoani and just don't do Horizon. First you tell me there are no resources problems, now you tell me that they would be dumb to devote the proper level of resources to this project. Make up your mind. In either case, it is shitty project management in a market that's rapidly running out of source materials for projects.
iirc decent sales, not groundbreaking but not shit either, unfortunately this is a niche market so it is hard to judge success with sales. I was rather tempted to get just for the bonus stuff in the author writing random short stories 2x the sizes of most LNs.
Budgeting issues don't have to be just that though, also Sunrise is big enough that animation quality shouldn't be an issue just because there should be mechanisms to apply for more funding on simple things like animation. Time slotting and such though is something that emergency funds don't work for simply because they are established ahead of time. Either way, I think the decision to do 2x1cour was a really bad one.
If anything I'd praise the director for doing 2 vols in 2 cours simply because any other division would have been retarded, hard to follow, and just as disruptive of the experience as cramming content in. There hasn't really been enough studios that are willing to pull out what Shaft and...ummmm, whoever did Oreimo again in fucking with time slots and standard show airing lengths and using unconventional airing methods like streaming to provide for bluray/dvd only materials.
There isn't really just one thing that's wrong, the whole thing is just so off that I consider the entire project pretty much shit. Oh though the music was also pretty good along w/ seiyuu, forgot about that. But yeah, at the point when everything is more or less fucked up, I find it hard to point at just the staff.
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On September 03 2012 06:01 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 04:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i gotta question, is there any anime that doesn't have lame backstories?
like, a character that doesn't have some really lame and really depressing backstory that has to be dwelled upon for like fifteen episodes? or possibly even a show where the really lame and depressing backstories are shown, rather than straight up told?
it just seems like the entire medium is focused around creating a character and then showing me every bad thing that has ever happened to them in long ass, boring flashbacks. Well, you can go for Lucky Star
LOL yeah you're not going to get much time wasted with Lucky Star in that respect.
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Just wanted to say that the first few seconds (piano parts only) from Angel Beats is really amazing! Too bad the rest of the song is meh -.-
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On September 03 2012 08:17 XenOmega wrote:
Just wanted to say that the first few seconds (piano parts only) from Angel Beats is really amazing! Too bad the rest of the song is meh -.-
It's my second fav Lia song... which is a record of biggest discrepancy between best and second song of any singer.
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On September 03 2012 08:17 XenOmega wrote:
Just wanted to say that the first few seconds (piano parts only) from Angel Beats is really amazing! Too bad the rest of the song is meh -.-
I didn't like any of it actually, but on the other hand I really really liked Brave Song.
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On September 03 2012 04:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:
i gotta question, is there any anime that doesn't have lame backstories?
like, a character that doesn't have some really lame and really depressing backstory that has to be dwelled upon for like fifteen episodes? or possibly even a show where the really lame and depressing backstories are shown, rather than straight up told?
it just seems like the entire medium is focused around creating a character and then showing me every bad thing that has ever happened to them in long ass, boring flashbacks.
There are plenty of animes which only barely touch on a character's backstory compared to the ones which just make it the focal point of the plot (cough Naruto cough), but I can't think of too many that both have a good plot and don't touch on a character's backstory at all. If you want an anime that just doesn't have a bad generic backstory (friend died want revenge/terrible past/no friends/etc) then there are plenty of those around (don't ask me about them, I don't watch enough anime to tell you any  )
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Also, I just watched the first episode of .Hack//Sign... Please tell me it gets better.
There was so much introduced, it just got really boring. The main character is looking pretty bad as well, a lot of sulking and confusing emotions (sad to happy to sad way too quickly, and just no reason for it). They also started touching upon the world set-up, but left that as minimal as possible.
I know it was just a first episode, but from the looks of how all over the place it is, is the rest of the anime going to be like that?
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It doesn't seem like Accel World is gonna have any meaningful ending in 24 episodes. Does anyone know if it's going to be continued after that?
I watched it because I liked the synopsis, and I think it was pretty good despite the MC being weird, so I'd be pretty disappointed if there's no end to be found.
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On September 03 2012 11:13 tobi9999 wrote:
It doesn't seem like Accel World is gonna have any meaningful ending in 24 episodes. Does anyone know if it's going to be continued after that?
I watched it because I liked the synopsis, and I think it was pretty good despite the MC being weird, so I'd be pretty disappointed if there's no end to be found.
Reaching level 10 will be the meaningful ending.
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On September 03 2012 11:24 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 11:13 tobi9999 wrote:
It doesn't seem like Accel World is gonna have any meaningful ending in 24 episodes. Does anyone know if it's going to be continued after that?
I watched it because I liked the synopsis, and I think it was pretty good despite the MC being weird, so I'd be pretty disappointed if there's no end to be found. Reaching level 10 will be the meaningful ending.
Yea, but that doesn't seem like it's gonna happen in over 50 episodes, much less 24. I'm just wondering if they're gonna continue it til then.
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On September 03 2012 11:13 tobi9999 wrote:
It doesn't seem like Accel World is gonna have any meaningful ending in 24 episodes. Does anyone know if it's going to be continued after that?
I watched it because I liked the synopsis, and I think it was pretty good despite the MC being weird, so I'd be pretty disappointed if there's no end to be found.
It's probably going to have a second season. From what I've heard, the anime so far is the first four of 11-12 novels.
The noumi arc will reach it's conclusion, but that's about it.
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On September 03 2012 11:13 tobi9999 wrote:
It doesn't seem like Accel World is gonna have any meaningful ending in 24 episodes. Does anyone know if it's going to be continued after that?
I watched it because I liked the synopsis, and I think it was pretty good despite the MC being weird, so I'd be pretty disappointed if there's no end to be found.
Its an on-going LN, so its possible it might never get a meaningful ending.
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EPT
