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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here.
If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers.
If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. |
On November 06 2014 04:55 ShurykaN wrote:
Why is Forikorder my favorite poster in this thread now..?
He is, when he is not trying to impose his views on others :D
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On November 06 2014 07:58 shell wrote:
The thing is Thomas Mann didn't developed the same story for 17 years, he created various works during his working life, like all of the writers/artists do.
Oda has one story to tell and he is telling it in a weekly chapter with 14 to 20 pages since 1997.. that's impressive and amazing to me!
oh and btw i have no problem to tell my girlfriend that i love a caracter named Luffy that is a rubber man in a japanese comic book... it's just one of my many interests!
First of all Thomas Mann actually did develop Joseph And His Brothers over the course of 16 years. Second of all, the longtivity of One Piece is due to it being a weekly comic, rather than that actual story content. Dressrosa has been going on for more than a year now, and can be read in a couple of hours. There is no denying that what Oda has done is quite an impressive feat, but as i have already mentioned, quantity =/= quality.
Anyway. I think this discussion has gotten out of hand. I enjoy One Piece just as much as anyone else in this thread, but if you believe that One Piece is the greatest thing ever written, and that Oda is a godsend genius, i suggest that you try to expand your literary horizon.
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On November 06 2014 07:59 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 07:47 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:32 Forikorder wrote:No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that there is different factors that comes into play when you qualify the quality of a certain product. The complexity and depth of the characters is one thing that i would consider in any story. Let me give you a couple of examples.
If i were to review a regular book, i would look at the general flow of the language, the composition and the depth of the story. I would however NOT consider the artwork for the cover of the book, because the book is no about the cover. If i were to review a comic, i would also consider the composition and the depth of the story. I would however not expect the same flow of language as in a novel, because comics are made up of short sentences rather than a wall of text. But where as i was indifferent in regards to the artwork of the novel, i would consider the artwork of a comic to be something to consider. but you are saying because the characters are not as complex as they could OP is not a masterpiece No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that individual character development is often times limited to a few arcs, and that after that arc ends there is little to no further character development. My example is Robin - a character that has not seen any development in seven years, in spite of being one of the main characters. And that very lack of continuous development is what i dislike about One Piece. Said lack of development is why i say that One Piece is no masterpiece, especially considering that the individual arcs themselves are nothing spectacular in terms of story telling. One Piece is a wealth of fairly good individual stories that are tied together by Luffy and his crew, but none of the stories themselves are outstanding in any way. i dont see how what you said could meajn anything other then "becuase the main characters are not complex OP is not a masterpiece"
My point is as follows: The lack of character development in a story about character development, is what renders One Piece less than a masterpiece.
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On November 06 2014 08:31 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 07:59 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 07:47 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:32 Forikorder wrote:No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that there is different factors that comes into play when you qualify the quality of a certain product. The complexity and depth of the characters is one thing that i would consider in any story. Let me give you a couple of examples.
If i were to review a regular book, i would look at the general flow of the language, the composition and the depth of the story. I would however NOT consider the artwork for the cover of the book, because the book is no about the cover. If i were to review a comic, i would also consider the composition and the depth of the story. I would however not expect the same flow of language as in a novel, because comics are made up of short sentences rather than a wall of text. But where as i was indifferent in regards to the artwork of the novel, i would consider the artwork of a comic to be something to consider. but you are saying because the characters are not as complex as they could OP is not a masterpiece No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that individual character development is often times limited to a few arcs, and that after that arc ends there is little to no further character development. My example is Robin - a character that has not seen any development in seven years, in spite of being one of the main characters. And that very lack of continuous development is what i dislike about One Piece. Said lack of development is why i say that One Piece is no masterpiece, especially considering that the individual arcs themselves are nothing spectacular in terms of story telling. One Piece is a wealth of fairly good individual stories that are tied together by Luffy and his crew, but none of the stories themselves are outstanding in any way. i dont see how what you said could meajn anything other then "becuase the main characters are not complex OP is not a masterpiece" My point is as follows: The lack of character development in a story about character development, is what renders One Piece less than a masterpiece.
how is it a story about character development? its just a group of people on an adventure
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On November 06 2014 08:32 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 08:31 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:59 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 07:47 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:32 Forikorder wrote:No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that there is different factors that comes into play when you qualify the quality of a certain product. The complexity and depth of the characters is one thing that i would consider in any story. Let me give you a couple of examples.
If i were to review a regular book, i would look at the general flow of the language, the composition and the depth of the story. I would however NOT consider the artwork for the cover of the book, because the book is no about the cover. If i were to review a comic, i would also consider the composition and the depth of the story. I would however not expect the same flow of language as in a novel, because comics are made up of short sentences rather than a wall of text. But where as i was indifferent in regards to the artwork of the novel, i would consider the artwork of a comic to be something to consider. but you are saying because the characters are not as complex as they could OP is not a masterpiece No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that individual character development is often times limited to a few arcs, and that after that arc ends there is little to no further character development. My example is Robin - a character that has not seen any development in seven years, in spite of being one of the main characters. And that very lack of continuous development is what i dislike about One Piece. Said lack of development is why i say that One Piece is no masterpiece, especially considering that the individual arcs themselves are nothing spectacular in terms of story telling. One Piece is a wealth of fairly good individual stories that are tied together by Luffy and his crew, but none of the stories themselves are outstanding in any way. i dont see how what you said could meajn anything other then "becuase the main characters are not complex OP is not a masterpiece" My point is as follows: The lack of character development in a story about character development, is what renders One Piece less than a masterpiece. how is it a story about character development? its just a group of people on an adventure
It is a story about a group of people trying to achieve their dream of becoming something, that they are currently not. Luffy wants to be Pirate King, Zoro wants to be the greatest swordsman in the world, Usopps dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea, Choppers dream is to become a doctor that can cure any illness and so on.
Each of them have a very specific goal, and some very specific obstacles that they have to overcome in order to achieve said goal. During their journey they are furthermore continuously developing new techniques in order to achieve their goal. If that is not about character development, i don't know what it is.
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On November 06 2014 09:05 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 08:32 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 08:31 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:59 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 07:47 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:32 Forikorder wrote:No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that there is different factors that comes into play when you qualify the quality of a certain product. The complexity and depth of the characters is one thing that i would consider in any story. Let me give you a couple of examples.
If i were to review a regular book, i would look at the general flow of the language, the composition and the depth of the story. I would however NOT consider the artwork for the cover of the book, because the book is no about the cover. If i were to review a comic, i would also consider the composition and the depth of the story. I would however not expect the same flow of language as in a novel, because comics are made up of short sentences rather than a wall of text. But where as i was indifferent in regards to the artwork of the novel, i would consider the artwork of a comic to be something to consider. but you are saying because the characters are not as complex as they could OP is not a masterpiece No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that individual character development is often times limited to a few arcs, and that after that arc ends there is little to no further character development. My example is Robin - a character that has not seen any development in seven years, in spite of being one of the main characters. And that very lack of continuous development is what i dislike about One Piece. Said lack of development is why i say that One Piece is no masterpiece, especially considering that the individual arcs themselves are nothing spectacular in terms of story telling. One Piece is a wealth of fairly good individual stories that are tied together by Luffy and his crew, but none of the stories themselves are outstanding in any way. i dont see how what you said could meajn anything other then "becuase the main characters are not complex OP is not a masterpiece" My point is as follows: The lack of character development in a story about character development, is what renders One Piece less than a masterpiece. how is it a story about character development? its just a group of people on an adventure It is a story about a group of people trying to achieve their dream of becoming something, that they are currently not. Luffy wants to be Pirate King, Zoro wants to be the greatest swordsman in the world, Usopps dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea, Choppers dream is to become a doctor that can cure any illness and so on. Each of them have a very specific goal, and some very specific obstacles that they have to overcome in order to achieve said goal. During their journey they are furthermore continuously developing new techniques in order to achieve their goal. If that is not about character development, i don't know what it is.
there character isnt developing, just growing stronger there not looking to change just be who they are but better versions of it they have no need to change in any way to achieve there goal (except usopp)
most of them there goal is to simply to travel from one place to another, Zoro (and usopp) is the only who needs to change (to grow stronger) all of them are strong enough to complete there goal and the story is just what happens as they try to do so
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On November 06 2014 09:31 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 09:05 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 08:32 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 08:31 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:59 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 07:47 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:32 Forikorder wrote:No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that there is different factors that comes into play when you qualify the quality of a certain product. The complexity and depth of the characters is one thing that i would consider in any story. Let me give you a couple of examples.
If i were to review a regular book, i would look at the general flow of the language, the composition and the depth of the story. I would however NOT consider the artwork for the cover of the book, because the book is no about the cover. If i were to review a comic, i would also consider the composition and the depth of the story. I would however not expect the same flow of language as in a novel, because comics are made up of short sentences rather than a wall of text. But where as i was indifferent in regards to the artwork of the novel, i would consider the artwork of a comic to be something to consider. but you are saying because the characters are not as complex as they could OP is not a masterpiece No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that individual character development is often times limited to a few arcs, and that after that arc ends there is little to no further character development. My example is Robin - a character that has not seen any development in seven years, in spite of being one of the main characters. And that very lack of continuous development is what i dislike about One Piece. Said lack of development is why i say that One Piece is no masterpiece, especially considering that the individual arcs themselves are nothing spectacular in terms of story telling. One Piece is a wealth of fairly good individual stories that are tied together by Luffy and his crew, but none of the stories themselves are outstanding in any way. i dont see how what you said could meajn anything other then "becuase the main characters are not complex OP is not a masterpiece" My point is as follows: The lack of character development in a story about character development, is what renders One Piece less than a masterpiece. how is it a story about character development? its just a group of people on an adventure It is a story about a group of people trying to achieve their dream of becoming something, that they are currently not. Luffy wants to be Pirate King, Zoro wants to be the greatest swordsman in the world, Usopps dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea, Choppers dream is to become a doctor that can cure any illness and so on. Each of them have a very specific goal, and some very specific obstacles that they have to overcome in order to achieve said goal. During their journey they are furthermore continuously developing new techniques in order to achieve their goal. If that is not about character development, i don't know what it is. there character isnt developing, just growing stronger there not looking to change just be who they are but better versions of it they have no need to change in any way to achieve there goal (except usopp) most of them there goal is to simply to travel from one place to another, Zoro (and usopp) is the only who needs to change (to grow stronger) all of them are strong enough to complete there goal and the story is just what happens as they try to do so
And you think that growth is totally unrelated to development and change? I feel like we are discussing whether gas is a state of matter again.
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On November 06 2014 09:46 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 09:31 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 09:05 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 08:32 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 08:31 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:59 Forikorder wrote:On November 06 2014 07:47 Prog455 wrote:On November 06 2014 07:32 Forikorder wrote:No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that there is different factors that comes into play when you qualify the quality of a certain product. The complexity and depth of the characters is one thing that i would consider in any story. Let me give you a couple of examples.
If i were to review a regular book, i would look at the general flow of the language, the composition and the depth of the story. I would however NOT consider the artwork for the cover of the book, because the book is no about the cover. If i were to review a comic, i would also consider the composition and the depth of the story. I would however not expect the same flow of language as in a novel, because comics are made up of short sentences rather than a wall of text. But where as i was indifferent in regards to the artwork of the novel, i would consider the artwork of a comic to be something to consider. but you are saying because the characters are not as complex as they could OP is not a masterpiece No that is not what i am saying. I am saying that individual character development is often times limited to a few arcs, and that after that arc ends there is little to no further character development. My example is Robin - a character that has not seen any development in seven years, in spite of being one of the main characters. And that very lack of continuous development is what i dislike about One Piece. Said lack of development is why i say that One Piece is no masterpiece, especially considering that the individual arcs themselves are nothing spectacular in terms of story telling. One Piece is a wealth of fairly good individual stories that are tied together by Luffy and his crew, but none of the stories themselves are outstanding in any way. i dont see how what you said could meajn anything other then "becuase the main characters are not complex OP is not a masterpiece" My point is as follows: The lack of character development in a story about character development, is what renders One Piece less than a masterpiece. how is it a story about character development? its just a group of people on an adventure It is a story about a group of people trying to achieve their dream of becoming something, that they are currently not. Luffy wants to be Pirate King, Zoro wants to be the greatest swordsman in the world, Usopps dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea, Choppers dream is to become a doctor that can cure any illness and so on. Each of them have a very specific goal, and some very specific obstacles that they have to overcome in order to achieve said goal. During their journey they are furthermore continuously developing new techniques in order to achieve their goal. If that is not about character development, i don't know what it is. there character isnt developing, just growing stronger there not looking to change just be who they are but better versions of it they have no need to change in any way to achieve there goal (except usopp) most of them there goal is to simply to travel from one place to another, Zoro (and usopp) is the only who needs to change (to grow stronger) all of them are strong enough to complete there goal and the story is just what happens as they try to do so And you think that growth is totally unrelated to development and change? I feel like we are discussing whether gas is a state of matter again.
my point is there isnt a story of the hero who starts out weak and becomes strong to save the world like naruto its a story of a bunch of friends going on an adventure the goal of the adventure is only important in setting the scene and giving them a reason to band together
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I must defend One Piece's quality in this debate.
At it's heart One Piece is a story about adventure and exloration.
I'm not that knowledgeable in literature, but I am pretty sure Jules Verne is considered a good author. And the most famous of his works had an explorative or at least travel-oriented theme:
20.000 Leagues under the Sea
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Around the World in 80 days
Good stories or works in general don't need to be about the darkness inherent in humanity. Madness, guilt, insecurity, morality or what have you.
I have started reading some books of that kind that are considered classics. And those "deep", philosophical stuff is horribly dull to me. It doesn't make me a better person and it doesn't enrich me with something new, as I had too much opportunity to confront hard truths of life by myself.
My life was grim enough already, I'm happy to get some levity in my free time. One Piece does that, while having many qualities that people tend to overlook because of it's cartoony look.
Just because it is a shonen manga with a rather simple art style doesn't make it a "lesser story".
edit: I'm in dire need of an editor. My post structure is awful.
+ Show Spoiler [original ramble] +I must support One Piece in this regard.
At it's heart One Piece is the story of an adventure/exploration. The protagonist is Luffy and his circle of friends.
I'm not that into literature, but I am quite sure that Jules Verne is considered a good author and he wrote some book that had an explorative theme, like 20.000 leagues below the ocean under the sea, travel to the core of the earth journey to the center of the earth and race around the globe in 80 days around the world in 80 days.
Good stories/books don't need to be about the darkness of the human soul. If you want to read neurotic stuff, try kafka. I can't stand a lot of the "deep" stuff, I tried reading a few. My life is grim enough as it is, I much prefer some levity in my hobbies. One Piece delivers that.
Being a shonen manga doesn't make it a "lesser work" by default.
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Lol, so when does the next chapter come out?
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Probably should be out later today.
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With all these posts in the thread I thought the chapter had come out, how wrong was I.
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Austria24422 Posts
This chapter drought is killing me D:
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Lets just say  . . . Flashback is never ending . . . .
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if you're going to say something about the chapter at least put it in spoilers.+ Show Spoiler + i now already know that the flashback won't end in this chapter.
also I have to go in 25 minutes. i'm literally hoping a translated version gets released in the next 20 minutes, rofl
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such tragic omg D: and that cover tribute to naruto.
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On November 06 2014 21:09 XiaoJoyce- wrote:Lets just say . . . Flashback is never ending . . . .
wtf are you talking about? we obviously have + Show Spoiler + more flashback chapters left. + Show Spoiler + is a stretch. and this flashback has been totally awesome.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51228 Posts
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oh my god the respect from Oda to Kishi
Luffy eating Ramen - Naruto eating meat.
Nami in that smoking hot dress with Konoha symbols
even in the one piece title the O is replaced with the leaf symbol and the character is Naruto instead of Luffy
and of course the chibi fox also dressed in konoha clothes.
+ Show Spoiler +
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if you take a closer look, the person behind nami might actually be naruto himself 
take a look at those shoes and the hem of the top, and his black sleeves
edit: did not see "naruto eating meat" part. i'm blind
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jQ49LcV.jpg)
