|
This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here.
If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers.
If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. |
On February 04 2014 16:21 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 15:53 Slaughter wrote:
Are people saying that Goro Goro No Mi + that ship might be Uranus? I am trying to remember where Enel got the plans for that ship since it seemed tailor made to his power.
I wouldn't be surprised if he came back because Oda doesn't seem to let characters go to waste. I dunno if he would come back in that capacity though, as I would think Oda would want to weave in the last ancient weapon as something completely new and not introduced yet. It's possible that he found the Goro Goro No Mi next to the ship's blueprints on Bilka or something. The location of the blueprints and the devil fruit to be used with it would be located in the same place, that place being a sky island. Poseidon of the sea (Shirahoshi) Pluton of the underworld (iceburg/franky blueprints) Uranus of the sky (goro goro no mi + blue prints found on a sky island) ^Somethings along those lines, really.
that seems pretty convuluted with no foreshadowing since enel never once mentioned blueprints or finding the plans at all
|
On February 04 2014 09:04 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 05:34 EchOne wrote:On February 04 2014 04:05 rei wrote:
Think about how he can instantly discharge his gigantic ball of lightning into the ocean, and wipe out the fishes and destroy the eco-system and have the food web broken to the point of no chance of recovery which will lead to many species going extinct. He doesn't even have to target anywhere near someone with the power to stop him. he can do this in a remote part of the world. rei you seem to like discussing "real world logic" in this thread, so I'll remind you that lightning bolts actually have virtually zero impact on marine ecosystems in real life. Real life lightning bolts are also far stronger than Enel's discharges, which go up to a paltry 200 million volts, whereas actual tall stormclouds can provide voltages of 1 billion. When such bolts are dispersed completely over a few tens of meters of ocean at most, they do little in the grand scheme of the ocean, which has thousands of meters of depth left in it. Of course there's also the fact that the world of One Piece is substantially different from ours. The manga repeatedly reminds us of this fact, almost as if to preclude pointless comparisons or assumptions based on the real world. Enel's max is 200million volts, but maxim's max is well over that. enough to create the Columbus cloud that you are talking about. And on top of that need I remind you in nature Columbus cloud actually creates anti mater during lightning discharge? And he's not discharging this balls of anti matter from a distance, he's crashing that giant ball of antimatter into the island. Do i need to remind you what happens when antimatter and matter comes into contact?
dude that's the real world physics .. You can't mix that with one piece logic.
|
I think this discussuon about 'power levels' should have a distinction.
Is it the fruit's potential the discussion is focusing on?
Or is it the current user's ability to draw on the DF potential, whatever that may be?
Because, if it just focuses on the fruit, then enel's df has a lot of potential that enel has not explored yet nor has he combined it with the other ability in the op'verse, haki.
So the limitation lies with the user.
Found it funny that there was mention of light beating lightning. It is not a energy blast clash we are talking about if it is element vs element in this case for me.
If you delete haki in the equation, i dont know how you can expect one to pierce the other as it is not a natural counter per se.
My two cents on the matter.
The only complaint i have with logia is that they seem to be creating matter/mass outside the limitation of their own mass because they seem to create it from no external sources of matter outside of their own (like the case of magma)
It is not like the limitation given to gaara in the naruto verse where he actually has to carry sand with him or crush rocks under the earth to use in battle.
Hope that made sense.
Kizaru transfers himself or energy thru the beam. Aokiji can freeze water in the air if there is none in liquid form. But for akainu, dont know how it works if he cant access an external source of molten earth to launch big attacks.
|
On February 04 2014 20:57 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I think this discussuon about 'power levels' should have a distinction.
Is it the fruit's potential the discussion is focusing on?
Or is it the current user's ability to draw on the DF potential, whatever that may be?
Because, if it just focuses on the fruit, then enel's df has a lot of potential that enel has not explored yet nor has he combined it with the other ability in the op'verse, haki.
So the limitation lies with the user.
Found it funny that there was mention of light beating lightning. It is not a energy blast clash we are talking about if it is element vs element in this case for me.
If you delete haki in the equation, i dont know how you can expect one to pierce the other as it is not a natural counter per se.
My two cents on the matter.
The only complaint i have with logia is that they seem to be creating matter/mass outside the limitation of their own mass because they seem to create it from no external sources of matter outside of their own (like the case of magma)
It is not like the limitation given to gaara in the naruto verse where he actually has to carry sand with him or crush rocks under the earth to use in battle.
Hope that made sense.
Kizaru transfers himself or energy thru the beam. Aokiji can freeze water in the air if there is none in liquid form. But for akainu, dont know how it works if he cant access an external source of molten earth to launch big attacks.
One piece would be too lame if that would happen. I mean one piece would look like Avatar. I am happy with current state of lugia in one piece. I don't want crocodile to be like gaara.
Most are focusing on the fruits potential . Since you know enel sucks in combat.
|
On February 04 2014 21:06 goody153 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2014 20:57 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I think this discussuon about 'power levels' should have a distinction.
Is it the fruit's potential the discussion is focusing on?
Or is it the current user's ability to draw on the DF potential, whatever that may be?
Because, if it just focuses on the fruit, then enel's df has a lot of potential that enel has not explored yet nor has he combined it with the other ability in the op'verse, haki.
So the limitation lies with the user.
Found it funny that there was mention of light beating lightning. It is not a energy blast clash we are talking about if it is element vs element in this case for me.
If you delete haki in the equation, i dont know how you can expect one to pierce the other as it is not a natural counter per se.
My two cents on the matter.
The only complaint i have with logia is that they seem to be creating matter/mass outside the limitation of their own mass because they seem to create it from no external sources of matter outside of their own (like the case of magma)
It is not like the limitation given to gaara in the naruto verse where he actually has to carry sand with him or crush rocks under the earth to use in battle.
Hope that made sense.
Kizaru transfers himself or energy thru the beam. Aokiji can freeze water in the air if there is none in liquid form. But for akainu, dont know how it works if he cant access an external source of molten earth to launch big attacks. One piece would be too lame if that would happen. I mean one piece would look like Avatar. I am happy with current state of lugia in one piece. I don't want crocodile to be like gaara. Most are focusing on the fruits potential . Since you know enel sucks in combat.
I am not really saying to make it exactly like Gaara for crocodile in that situation, but I actually think for Crocodile it was expounded to be like that as he ruled a country of sand because his powers would be greatest there.
For Enel, near the clouds as well because that where you can "create" lightning externally from him (in a certain sense).
So it was actually shown to be a case of being able to turn yourself into your element and also draw the element of your logia from the surroundings.
The only one who is actually different in this sense is Akainu (as far as I can tell) as he wasn't shown to actually draw from unmolten earth before executing an attack of molten earth. The others you could explain, but his not so much.
It would be a good visual representation if whenever Akainu attacks with matter outside his own, he leaves a crater because that was the source of the earth to be melted. (Hope that made sense).
That's just me.
Also, Crocodile technically can use the dirt/dust in the air to collect as sand, although it would be a slightly slow process, so if he doesn't have the rocks themselves, the air still carries with it particles of earth. hehe!
Just saying.
|
On February 04 2014 20:57 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I think this discussuon about 'power levels' should have a distinction.
Is it the fruit's potential the discussion is focusing on?
Or is it the current user's ability to draw on the DF potential, whatever that may be?
Because, if it just focuses on the fruit, then enel's df has a lot of potential that enel has not explored yet nor has he combined it with the other ability in the op'verse, haki.
So the limitation lies with the user.
Found it funny that there was mention of light beating lightning. It is not a energy blast clash we are talking about if it is element vs element in this case for me.
If you delete haki in the equation, i dont know how you can expect one to pierce the other as it is not a natural counter per se.
My two cents on the matter.
The only complaint i have with logia is that they seem to be creating matter/mass outside the limitation of their own mass because they seem to create it from no external sources of matter outside of their own (like the case of magma)
It is not like the limitation given to gaara in the naruto verse where he actually has to carry sand with him or crush rocks under the earth to use in battle.
Hope that made sense.
Kizaru transfers himself or energy thru the beam. Aokiji can freeze water in the air if there is none in liquid form. But for akainu, dont know how it works if he cant access an external source of molten earth to launch big attacks.
I can see why Akainu's power seem a little more inexplainable compared to the rest. I'd always thought of logia power having at least two distinct levels (of mastery?): one in which you can turn your body into the element or manipulate the element around you, and one where you can just conjure that element out of seemingly nothing, like Akainu with Magma, Magellan with Poison and Kizaru with light beams of condensed energy.
|
I think Fujitora's fruit should be added to the "Most Destructive DFs" list.
Potentially Kumas aswell since the WG seemed confident in his ability to annihilate the entire Thriller Bark ship, wich is the size of an island.
|
On February 04 2014 21:53 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 20:57 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I think this discussuon about 'power levels' should have a distinction.
Is it the fruit's potential the discussion is focusing on?
Or is it the current user's ability to draw on the DF potential, whatever that may be?
Because, if it just focuses on the fruit, then enel's df has a lot of potential that enel has not explored yet nor has he combined it with the other ability in the op'verse, haki.
So the limitation lies with the user.
Found it funny that there was mention of light beating lightning. It is not a energy blast clash we are talking about if it is element vs element in this case for me.
If you delete haki in the equation, i dont know how you can expect one to pierce the other as it is not a natural counter per se.
My two cents on the matter.
The only complaint i have with logia is that they seem to be creating matter/mass outside the limitation of their own mass because they seem to create it from no external sources of matter outside of their own (like the case of magma)
It is not like the limitation given to gaara in the naruto verse where he actually has to carry sand with him or crush rocks under the earth to use in battle.
Hope that made sense.
Kizaru transfers himself or energy thru the beam. Aokiji can freeze water in the air if there is none in liquid form. But for akainu, dont know how it works if he cant access an external source of molten earth to launch big attacks. I can see why Akainu's power seem a little more inexplainable compared to the rest. I'd always thought of logia power having at least two distinct levels (of mastery?): one in which you can turn your body into the element or manipulate the element around you, and one where you can just conjure that element out of seemingly nothing, like Akainu with Magma, Magellan with Poison and Kizaru with light beams of condensed energy.
Magellan is not a Logia user, but Ceasar Clown probably fits the part 
|
I think there are too many inconsistencies to determine the qualities of a logia DF.
|
Indeed I still think Luffy has more Logia characteristics than paramecia :O
|
I think this thread talks more about Enel than Luffy, and it's not really close.
|
On February 04 2014 02:44 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 02:36 Mensol wrote:
Are you kidding me? Do you really think that Oda going to kill main characters such as Usopp?
Also his fruit is better than pika pika or w/e. If Oda made Robin say something like invincible, you can't say that "his fruit is shit kekekekekekek" Its faaaaar from "shit". But there is no way you can argue that the lightning logia is more powerful than the Light logia based on logic, what we have seen in the manga and simple common sense. The lightning Logia has far to many natural weaknesses. Its useless against elements and matter that does not conduct electicity as shown in skypeia arc, and you could add like 70% of all logias to that list. Come on, use some common sense. What Robin said at THAT point in the manga is sort of irrelevant.
You can now stop pulling facts out of your ass. What you are saying is flat out wrong. Period.
You say that 70% of Logias are immune to lightning. Let us check.
Aside from Enel himself, there is currently 8 (known) living Logia users, that being:
- Smoker: Will conduct electricity
- Kuzan: Will conduct electricity
- Blackbeard: Will conduct electricity
- Caribou: Will conduct electricity
There you have it - atleast 50% of the current active Logias will conduct electricity. I didn't care to check for more, since this was enough to prove you wrong. However - regardless of wether sand conducts electricity, it will certainly be affected by the heat. Same goes for gas. Furthermore, each of the other Logias will be affected if the lightning is haki imbued.
Also can you please shut up about magma being stronger than fire, if you are so keen on trying to argue about the strength of Enels fruit based on science. Magma is molten rocks, and will often be about 700-1,400 degrees celcius, based on the type of rock. The temperature of fire depens on the material that is burning, but atleast go as far as 3,000 degrees celcius. Lightning, by the way, have temperatures at up to 54,000 degrees celcius.
In case you didn't know: 1,400 < 3,000 < 54,000.
Conclusion: out of Ace, Akainu and Enel, Akainu has the weaker fruit, which i guess would be a low-tier Logia by your logic.
|
On February 05 2014 01:19 Dreamer.T wrote:
I think there are too many inconsistencies to determine the qualities of a logia DF.
Wow what a nonsense post. Oda has elaborated on this issue on several occasions in the SBS section.
Its actually Very simple. Logias (Wich pretty much translates to "force of nature") can control, conjure and turn their entire body into an element or a natural state of matter. Luffy cannot conjure up rubber out of thin air. Magellan can Conjure poison and even cover his body with it, but he cannot become poison himself. Magellan in particular is a pretty clear case since it has been confirmed by CC that he is a Paramecia user. There are no inconsistencies.
|
On February 05 2014 02:58 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 02:44 sc2holar wrote:On February 04 2014 02:36 Mensol wrote:
Are you kidding me? Do you really think that Oda going to kill main characters such as Usopp?
Also his fruit is better than pika pika or w/e. If Oda made Robin say something like invincible, you can't say that "his fruit is shit kekekekekekek" Its faaaaar from "shit". But there is no way you can argue that the lightning logia is more powerful than the Light logia based on logic, what we have seen in the manga and simple common sense. The lightning Logia has far to many natural weaknesses. Its useless against elements and matter that does not conduct electicity as shown in skypeia arc, and you could add like 70% of all logias to that list. Come on, use some common sense. What Robin said at THAT point in the manga is sort of irrelevant. You can now stop pulling facts out of your ass. What you are saying is flat out wrong. Period. You say that 70% of Logias are immune to lightning. Let us check. Aside from Enel himself, there is currently 8 (known) living Logia users, that being: - Smoker: Will conduct electricity - Kuzan: Will conduct electricity - Blackbeard: Will conduct electricity - Caribou: Will conduct electricity There you have it - atleast 50% of the current active Logias will conduct electricity. I didn't care to check for more, since this was enough to prove you wrong. However - regardless of wether sand conducts electricity, it will certainly be affected by the heat. Same goes for gas. Furthermore, each of the other Logias will be affected if the lightning is haki imbued. Also can you please shut up about magma being stronger than fire, if you are so keen on trying to argue about the strength of Enels fruit based on science. Magma is molten rocks, and will often be about 700-1,400 degrees celcius, based on the type of rock. The temperature of fire depens on the material that is burning, but atleast go as far as 3,000 degrees celcius. Lightning, by the way, have temperatures at up to 54,000 degrees celcius. In case you didn't know: 1,400 < 3,000 < 54,000. Conclusion: out of Ace, Akainu and Enel, Akainu has the weaker fruit, which i guess would be a low-tier Logia by your logic.
Magma has the ability to smother flames, and is not a conduct of electicity. So it beats both Lightning and Fire.
Also, purely elemental/logia based attacks have so far never been imbued with haki so we dont know for a fact if that is possible or not.
|
On February 05 2014 03:01 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 01:19 Dreamer.T wrote:
I think there are too many inconsistencies to determine the qualities of a logia DF. Wow what a nonsense post. Oda has elaborated on this issue on several occasions in the SBS section. Its actually Very simple. Logias (Wich pretty much translates to "force of nature") can control, conjure and turn their entire body into an element or a natural state of matter. Luffy cannot conjure up rubber out of thin air. Magellan can Conjure poison and even cover his body with it, but he cannot become poison himself. Magellan in particular is a pretty clear case since it has been confirmed by CC that he is a Paramecia user. There are no inconsistencies.
He has a point though. The number of inconsistencies between classes of DF and between the comparable properties of each DF is very large.
|
On February 05 2014 03:08 shark. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 03:01 sc2holar wrote:On February 05 2014 01:19 Dreamer.T wrote:
I think there are too many inconsistencies to determine the qualities of a logia DF. Wow what a nonsense post. Oda has elaborated on this issue on several occasions in the SBS section. Its actually Very simple. Logias (Wich pretty much translates to "force of nature") can control, conjure and turn their entire body into an element or a natural state of matter. Luffy cannot conjure up rubber out of thin air. Magellan can Conjure poison and even cover his body with it, but he cannot become poison himself. Magellan in particular is a pretty clear case since it has been confirmed by CC that he is a Paramecia user. There are no inconsistencies. He has a point though. The number of inconsistencies between classes of DF and between the comparable properties of each DF is very large.
Like what inconsistencies? when it comes to Logias at least, there have been none.
|
On February 05 2014 03:06 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 02:58 Prog455 wrote:On February 04 2014 02:44 sc2holar wrote:On February 04 2014 02:36 Mensol wrote:
Are you kidding me? Do you really think that Oda going to kill main characters such as Usopp?
Also his fruit is better than pika pika or w/e. If Oda made Robin say something like invincible, you can't say that "his fruit is shit kekekekekekek" Its faaaaar from "shit". But there is no way you can argue that the lightning logia is more powerful than the Light logia based on logic, what we have seen in the manga and simple common sense. The lightning Logia has far to many natural weaknesses. Its useless against elements and matter that does not conduct electicity as shown in skypeia arc, and you could add like 70% of all logias to that list. Come on, use some common sense. What Robin said at THAT point in the manga is sort of irrelevant. You can now stop pulling facts out of your ass. What you are saying is flat out wrong. Period. You say that 70% of Logias are immune to lightning. Let us check. Aside from Enel himself, there is currently 8 (known) living Logia users, that being: - Smoker: Will conduct electricity - Kuzan: Will conduct electricity - Blackbeard: Will conduct electricity - Caribou: Will conduct electricity There you have it - atleast 50% of the current active Logias will conduct electricity. I didn't care to check for more, since this was enough to prove you wrong. However - regardless of wether sand conducts electricity, it will certainly be affected by the heat. Same goes for gas. Furthermore, each of the other Logias will be affected if the lightning is haki imbued. Also can you please shut up about magma being stronger than fire, if you are so keen on trying to argue about the strength of Enels fruit based on science. Magma is molten rocks, and will often be about 700-1,400 degrees celcius, based on the type of rock. The temperature of fire depens on the material that is burning, but atleast go as far as 3,000 degrees celcius. Lightning, by the way, have temperatures at up to 54,000 degrees celcius. In case you didn't know: 1,400 < 3,000 < 54,000. Conclusion: out of Ace, Akainu and Enel, Akainu has the weaker fruit, which i guess would be a low-tier Logia by your logic. Magma has the ability to smother flames, and is not a conduct of electicity. So it beats both Lightning and Fire. Also, purely elemental/logia based attacks have so far never been imbued with haki so we dont know for a fact if that is possible or not.
None of the Logias so far has been a pure element.
|
On February 05 2014 03:06 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 02:58 Prog455 wrote:On February 04 2014 02:44 sc2holar wrote:On February 04 2014 02:36 Mensol wrote:
Are you kidding me? Do you really think that Oda going to kill main characters such as Usopp?
Also his fruit is better than pika pika or w/e. If Oda made Robin say something like invincible, you can't say that "his fruit is shit kekekekekekek" Its faaaaar from "shit". But there is no way you can argue that the lightning logia is more powerful than the Light logia based on logic, what we have seen in the manga and simple common sense. The lightning Logia has far to many natural weaknesses. Its useless against elements and matter that does not conduct electicity as shown in skypeia arc, and you could add like 70% of all logias to that list. Come on, use some common sense. What Robin said at THAT point in the manga is sort of irrelevant. You can now stop pulling facts out of your ass. What you are saying is flat out wrong. Period. You say that 70% of Logias are immune to lightning. Let us check. Aside from Enel himself, there is currently 8 (known) living Logia users, that being: - Smoker: Will conduct electricity - Kuzan: Will conduct electricity - Blackbeard: Will conduct electricity - Caribou: Will conduct electricity There you have it - atleast 50% of the current active Logias will conduct electricity. I didn't care to check for more, since this was enough to prove you wrong. However - regardless of wether sand conducts electricity, it will certainly be affected by the heat. Same goes for gas. Furthermore, each of the other Logias will be affected if the lightning is haki imbued. Also can you please shut up about magma being stronger than fire, if you are so keen on trying to argue about the strength of Enels fruit based on science. Magma is molten rocks, and will often be about 700-1,400 degrees celcius, based on the type of rock. The temperature of fire depens on the material that is burning, but atleast go as far as 3,000 degrees celcius. Lightning, by the way, have temperatures at up to 54,000 degrees celcius. In case you didn't know: 1,400 < 3,000 < 54,000. Conclusion: out of Ace, Akainu and Enel, Akainu has the weaker fruit, which i guess would be a low-tier Logia by your logic. Magma has the ability to smother flames, and is not a conduct of electicity. So it beats both Lightning and Fire. Also, purely elemental/logia based attacks have so far never been imbued with haki so we dont know for a fact if that is possible or not.
Wow thats pretty impressive how you practically ignored his entire post.
|
On February 05 2014 03:57 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 03:06 sc2holar wrote:On February 05 2014 02:58 Prog455 wrote:On February 04 2014 02:44 sc2holar wrote:On February 04 2014 02:36 Mensol wrote:
Are you kidding me? Do you really think that Oda going to kill main characters such as Usopp?
Also his fruit is better than pika pika or w/e. If Oda made Robin say something like invincible, you can't say that "his fruit is shit kekekekekekek" Its faaaaar from "shit". But there is no way you can argue that the lightning logia is more powerful than the Light logia based on logic, what we have seen in the manga and simple common sense. The lightning Logia has far to many natural weaknesses. Its useless against elements and matter that does not conduct electicity as shown in skypeia arc, and you could add like 70% of all logias to that list. Come on, use some common sense. What Robin said at THAT point in the manga is sort of irrelevant. You can now stop pulling facts out of your ass. What you are saying is flat out wrong. Period. You say that 70% of Logias are immune to lightning. Let us check. Aside from Enel himself, there is currently 8 (known) living Logia users, that being: - Smoker: Will conduct electricity - Kuzan: Will conduct electricity - Blackbeard: Will conduct electricity - Caribou: Will conduct electricity There you have it - atleast 50% of the current active Logias will conduct electricity. I didn't care to check for more, since this was enough to prove you wrong. However - regardless of wether sand conducts electricity, it will certainly be affected by the heat. Same goes for gas. Furthermore, each of the other Logias will be affected if the lightning is haki imbued. Also can you please shut up about magma being stronger than fire, if you are so keen on trying to argue about the strength of Enels fruit based on science. Magma is molten rocks, and will often be about 700-1,400 degrees celcius, based on the type of rock. The temperature of fire depens on the material that is burning, but atleast go as far as 3,000 degrees celcius. Lightning, by the way, have temperatures at up to 54,000 degrees celcius. In case you didn't know: 1,400 < 3,000 < 54,000. Conclusion: out of Ace, Akainu and Enel, Akainu has the weaker fruit, which i guess would be a low-tier Logia by your logic. Magma has the ability to smother flames, and is not a conduct of electicity. So it beats both Lightning and Fire. Also, purely elemental/logia based attacks have so far never been imbued with haki so we dont know for a fact if that is possible or not. None of the Logias so far has been a pure element.
Yes there has.
And i was talking about logia based attacks. Like Ace conjuring up a giant "cloud" of flames or enel shooting lightning bolts. we have never seen these types of moves used in combination with haki
|
omg, hey did anyone watch sunday's last episode?
the anime is atm at the casino where fujitora first appeared and the gravitation only worked AFTER he cut the bad guys
so could his sword have eaten the fruit?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
