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On January 18 2014 14:34 sumsaR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 12:39 Slaughter wrote:On January 18 2014 08:34 sumsaR wrote:On January 18 2014 07:42 Slaughter wrote:
Luffy is stronger then Ace was when he died simply because he knows and used Haki. Ace never showed any use of Haki in his short amount of time seen fighting (besides showing he had conquers haki in a flashback). That's a flawed argument considering Ace primarily used fire-based attacks when fighting — just like I can't remember ever seeing Aokiji using Haki, though he (and Ace) most certainly possesses the means to. His fight with BB showed that he clearly did not have much experience against those who would be capable of hitting him aka haki users. You can use haki for defense and observation too ya know. What's to say Ace didn't have good haki for defensive purposes? Blackbeard said that it must have been a long time since he was last hit (due to his logia), and if you take Akainu into consideration, whose logia still worked against haki attacks, you could imagine that Ace could have had a similar proficiency against haki attacks. Especially at his level (like for Akainu), not getting hit for a long time, would imply a good defense even against haki users. The fact of the matter is that it was Blackbeard's darkness fruit that nullified Ace's logia entirely, and his punch (maybe haki-infused? Oda did not draw haki-infused attacks differently back then) connected due to that (maybe haki defense being overpowered by haki offense? We cannot know at this point with just the art as evidence, because back then there was no difference as I previously stated). Plausible, right?
Its plausible but as was mentioned just below your post we really don't have enough information to determine either way. My theory is just based on the fact that at Ace's stage of development he didn't need to develop haki so didn't train for it because he was a logia. It has been said by a few characters that logias tend to neglect other skills because of their fruit. Plus putting Ace relative to the other WB commanders I don't see anything that would say "he uses haki" because imo if he did use haki at lets say Luffy's current level I think he would have been stronger (like how you mentioned the Admirals who were logias + haki) and you can't honestly say Ace was at Admiral level when he died. Luffy trained for TWO years to get his haki skills up, and I wonder when Ace would of had the time do dedicate to it, especially if the need never came up specifically. We all know he knows what it is and that he has the capability himself. I also think that if he had lived he would have become a very powerful character, he just died early.
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Though it has also been said that those of vice-admiral level can use haki. I'm fairly certain Ace was vice-admiral level, and if the analog is true then that would imply Ace could use atleast one color of haki (other than Conq).
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You can be at a certain level without having to defeat others at that level. For instance Kadiou Big Mom and Shanks are all Yonkous and so was Whitebeard. This does not mean that they could beat Whitebeard but you would expect them to be in the same field of class. Just because Ace could not defeat Sakazuki does not necessarily mean he is not in the same ball park as the Admirals. Jozu and Marco were shown as being able to briefly defeat and injure Admirals but many would still bet against them. Ace isn't some nobody who was new to the world, he was experienced and respected in the most dangerous sea with the most dangerous and powerful of Pirates and Marines. It would be incredibly stupid to suggest he was incapable of using and or defeating those who possess Haki tbh.
Also I would wager alot to say that if Ace was part of the Colosseum battles everyone there would be running for their lives including the "Big shots". I don't know why but something russles me inside when people claim Luffy = Ace at this point. Haki is really overrated IMO. It seems that people think because of Haki Luffy can take anyone.
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http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Portgas_D._Ace
From Ace's wiki:
1) his crew (Spade pirates) and him made it through the first half of the Grand Line
2) 2nd commander of the Whitebeard Pirates
3) was asked to become a Shichibukai, but refused
4) Luffy never beat Ace in a fight (that was when Luffy had Gomu Gomu no Mi (Ace did not have his fire fruit at that point)
5) Blackbeard had a bounty of 0 and joined the Shichibukai after defeating Ace
6) had a bounty of 550,000,000, highest amount shown thus far in One Piece
7) Tied in a five day fight with Jinbe
So I would say that his battle strength/reputation is really strong. I would put him just above or tied with Luffy (as of now). But that is just a subjective point of view and I can't prove that or make a strong case.
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pretty sure a person with a 550 million bounty knew how to use haki...
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Pretty sure part of the reason for his bounty was that Gol D Roger is his father.
Like Robin had an 80 Million bounty for having lived on Ohara, with the difference that Ace's strength was actually relevant when he got his bounty.
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On January 19 2014 05:42 Mataza wrote:
Pretty sure part of the reason for his bounty was that Gol D Roger is his father.
Like Robin had an 80 Million bounty for having lived on Ohara, with the difference that Ace's strength was actually relevant when he got his bounty.
Ace being the son of Gol D Roger was never published or known outside the very top of the marine. So no, I dont believe that
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Ace is a strong Motherfucker guys
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I would say that if you were to put a bounty on Rogers son it would be the highest bounty out there on the seas giving the extent that they went to eradicating anyone to do with Roger. I am pretty sure he earn't his bounty and if it were based purely om(or had relevance to) his lineage it would be alot higher.
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On January 19 2014 05:26 Sharkey wrote:http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Portgas_D._AceFrom Ace's wiki: 1) his crew (Spade pirates) and him made it through the first half of the Grand Line 2) 2nd commander of the Whitebeard Pirates 3) was asked to become a Shichibukai, but refused 4) Luffy never beat Ace in a fight (that was when Luffy had Gomu Gomu no Mi (Ace did not have his fire fruit at that point) 5) Blackbeard had a bounty of 0 and joined the Shichibukai after defeating Ace 6) had a bounty of 550,000,000, highest amount shown thus far in One Piece 7) Tied in a five day fight with Jinbe So I would say that his battle strength/reputation is really strong. I would put him just above or tied with Luffy (as of now). But that is just a subjective point of view and I can't prove that or make a strong case.
The fact that he got tied with Jinbe is a bit lackluster though lol
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akainu killed ace, then beat jimbei and took off half of whitebeards head. Called marco and vista annoying because they used haki but thats it. Then took out iva and the rest. The world tried to stop him and pretty much no one could. BB(who beat ace) lost to whitebead and sengoku (who one shot the entire bb crew). Ace was a joke compared to the top fighters but was decent considering everything.
Bounty and status can be for any reason, political power like DF, crew strength like buggy or threat to peace like kid since he kills civilians. Its about power, not strength.
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Garp knew and I think some other characters knew as well.
The world Government is evil, not stupid.
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On January 19 2014 06:04 Chro wrote:
akainu killed ace, then beat jimbei and took off half of whitebeards head. Called marco and vista annoying because they used haki but thats it. Then took out iva and the rest. The world tried to stop him and pretty much no one could. BB(who beat ace) lost to whitebead and sengoku (who one shot the entire bb crew). Ace was a joke compared to the top fighters but was decent considering everything.
Bounty and status can be for any reason, political power like DF, crew strength like buggy or threat to peace like kid since he kills civilians. Its about power, not strength.
Then why has Luffy only got 440million bounty. The world knows about his heritage and everything he has done with declaring war on the world government, Celestial dragons, impel down, War of the Best, crocodile etc. Surely that would make him worth alot more than over 100 million less than Ace??????
People seem to hate on Aces strength because of being Rogers son but forget that despite Luffys achievements hes still not worth as much as Ace was and luffy has pissed off alot more people.
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New world bounties have not been updated, have they?
(I may have said this before in this thread but I believe the 'power level ' idea behind bounties is no longer relevant for part 2 of OP and was probably primarily used as an explanation mechanism for Oda early on. You can tell considering how much emphasis was put on every new character appearing and their bounty in the early to mid parts of the series.)
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I'm pretty certain Luffys' bounty is updated to his most recent feats before the timeskip hence the 440m ish million bounty (though that might be laws). If anything I would think bounties mean more now as we have reached the "serious" part of the seas. The rest of the seas and the first half of the grand line are considered "Paradise" and fodder compared to what we are about to witness. I imagine the worth of a person to be FAR MORE highly viewed than in the (how i like to name them) fodder lands of the Pre-timeskip ways (in prespective ofc).
Like Pekom has the same bounty as DD did before it was frozen.
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Luffy is 400m right now, I think.
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On January 19 2014 07:59 Sentenal wrote:
Luffy is 400m right now, I think.
And will probably increase now when he's known to still be alive and entered the New World.
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I thought Luffy was at 415M at the moment.
edit: yeah that's right, Luffy is 400M and Kid is 415M.
So we're approaching Ace's level.
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On January 19 2014 09:10 Incognoto wrote:
I thought Luffy was at 415M at the moment.
edit: yeah that's right, Luffy is 400M and Kid is 415M.
So we're approaching Ace's level.
Not quite, we need to adjust for inflation.
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I don't get why the bounty needs to be a reflection of actual fighting level/power?
Isn't the bounty related to the threat "level" or significance of the person?
I mean, take a look at Buggy, he may be looked at as a joke, but he has the ability to "gather" comrades who are above him in terms of power levels just because of his stories or how he "inspires" them in a twisted sense.
I thought that was already made clear in the OP-verse.
Also, the higher bounty of Ace of 550m belli may or may not be related to the higher ups keeping Ace's bloodline from getting out without actually announcing it. That's a maybe, just like how Robin has a bounty before (Even as a kid) but not really everyone knew why, they just knew she had a bounty and must be feared (kind of like a stamp of armed and dangerous for the general public with just how "high" the bounty is)
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EPT
