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Maybe in the end, Oda will reveal that the reason shanks lost his arm is because he was in the sea.... meaning he actually kept his DF a secret and as a trump card in a final battle. Just saying why not right? It could be a Deus Ex Machina type skills where wants to use it in a worst case scenario of no win, no re as it is "too devastating".
Maybe.. just maybe. I don't see much reason why it wouldn't make sense as people can keep secrets anyway even from their crew.
It's a stretch, but that would make Shanks losing his arm make a bit more sense in the overall theme of the world in my mind. =)
Cheers!
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At the time he already traveled the grand line as part of te strongest crew in the world. Even as a cabin boy i expect him to easily destroy a little east blue seaking with 1 finger. Obviously oda didn't intend to make him one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world in the very first chapter.
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On January 17 2014 19:04 Omnishroud wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 17:23 RenSC2 wrote:On January 17 2014 17:08 DODswe4 wrote:On January 17 2014 16:28 Incognoto wrote:On January 17 2014 08:23 Mataza wrote:On January 17 2014 05:21 PVJ wrote:On January 16 2014 04:41 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2014 04:16 sumsaR wrote:On January 16 2014 04:03 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2014 00:40 playnice wrote:
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Yes.
But the translation is really off though. The part about her insisting DD breaking the alliance is like the complete opposite of the Chinese translation. Yes, I'm kind of confused about this page as doesn't it imply viola is still working for DD and planning to backstab the strawhats? No, he's just saying that it was she who insisted he should break the alliance (assumably) to spite King Riku (in essence how bad his daughter has become under Dofla's command). At the time she was on his side. It's only recently she switched. On January 16 2014 04:37 shark. wrote:
I took it as DD's way of saying Viola had betrayed him which would lead to him defeating the strawhats and by her betrayal this would be absolute. So as in the twisted way DD likes to spin things he saying that her betrayal means hes paying more attention and has a greater want to destroy the Alliance and that by her betrayal she almost wants him to crush them.
I'm finding it difficult to put into words, sorry. I just clicked on the page again to reread and the translation for the last part has been updated and corrected, so no more confusion! http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/734/2212/18Original translation - "She's the one who insisted I break it!" New translation - "She's betting everything on it to defeat me!" This totally clears it up now as the two translations have complete opposite meanings. Thank god viola isn't a double double agent as that would break sanji's heart!  People should get the idea now that mangastream, mangapanda are shit. Here's a translation which isn't rushed and makes things quite clear: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/218558/one-piece_ch734_by_powermanga2 things; 1) What's happening to Franky? Is he jumping back on his feet, or getting drowned by the swamp thing? 2) When was Cavendish exactly introduced? I'm just trying to put a timeframe on how far ahead does Oda has to plan, at least. Great chapter although a bit disappointing ending. Hey, Mangastream is good enough. Even though they tend to choose certain kind of juvenile phrasing from time to time. Franky is still being supplexed by the ground swimming guy. Cavendish was introduced shortly before the fighting tournament. Oda certainly plans way more ahead than that though. Its safe to say that all the events of this arc are already planned in detail. One of Odas more amazing pieces of foreshadowing was the mentioning of "Smile" on the Shabaody Archipelago before the timeskip. There are more cases like this that each have hundreds of chapters inbetween and still are absolutely seamless. The biggest sign of Odas planning though is the entire lack of contradictions. The biggest plothole One Piece has to date is the fact that Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was a kid. And it's been reported that Oda has laid out all the major plot points until the very end of the manga to a select few people in case he dies before he can complete it himself. I'm curious as to how that's a plot hole? The anime has a few plot holes but the manga doesn't as far as I know. I think maybe one but I can't think about it. I've definitely seen Chopper eat two Rumbles in less than 6 hours in the anime before, before the Water 7 arc. its a plot hole because if luffy could blow the sea king away when he started hes journey, there is no way shanks would lose an arm Yeah, it's considered a plot hole because of how strong Shanks turns out to be. We're not sure if he was a Yonko at the time, but he was definitely extremely powerful and was a dueling partner of Mihawk before he lost his arm. We also later learned that he was a master of Haki, so it'd be pretty surprising for a Sea King to sneak up on him like that. We could write it off as an extraordinary Sea King, except that Luffy knocks it out with one punch on his way off the island. So really, it seems like a plot hole, but possibly the only major plothole in the entire manga. As for last chapter, I was a little dissapointed in how the arena turned out. I guess all that theorizing not panning out was a letdown and Meadows just turned out to be a chump. At least Oda didn't randomly bring a whole new character in that we had no chance at guessing. He also found a way for Rebecca to move on, without her actually being out of place on the power scale. Finally, he showed why Cavendish has such a high bounty, despite Luffy easily being able to stop Cavendish's sword with his bare hands. I'm glad that Cavendish turned out to be more than just a chump, otherwise bounty inflation would get silly. So overall, the conclusion of block D made sense, even if Mr. Split personality kinda came out of nowhere unless you got the reference to Cavendish Square from Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. It will be interesting to see when Hakuba comes out next. edit: and yes, the Power Manga translation seems to be the best for clarity. Mangastream is pretty good and fast. Mangapanda is usually okay and it's the fastest, but sometimes can totally change the meaning of a sentence during translation which leads to a lot of confusion. Ive seen this "plot hole" come up alot. Is it not just possible that luffy was about to get munched by a sea king when shanks wasn't paying attention / was too far away that all he could do was throw himself in front of its mouth in time? I cant remember the specifics about the scenes from the manga / anime but it seems a logical explanation to me. Whenever we saw shanks in luffy's flashbacks he is just relaxing and having a good time so probably wasn't paying much attention to focusing his haki on threats. We also can't know for sure how strong he was during that period, look at the growth in luffy in just 2 years wasn't the incident something like ~12-15 years before the present / pre-timeskip? He could have been many many times weaker then he is now. This is including mihawk too, considering the only solid proof we have of his strength is him being a sparring partner of mihawk. Where is the information that states these two were badass 12 years ago? Afterall, him and buggy were probably comparable to the weakest members of the strawhat crew on rogers ship.
Whitebeard mentions how everyone was surprised Shanks returned missing an arm and asked what kind of enemy he lost it to. While it may be difficult to estimate Shanks' strength at the time, he was at least strong enough that Whitebeard recognized his strength.
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On January 17 2014 18:51 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 18:00 sc2holar wrote:
The story of the dressrosa arc is explosive and compelling. Doflamingo is a great villain and sabos reveal and upcoming battle against burgess is super exciting. But the narrative structive has been all over the place and chaotic to say the least. My two cents is that Oda should have stuck to either dwarves or toys, having both is overkill imo and has split up the narrative into at least 6 parts (law, luffy, rebecca, sunny, toys anf dwarves) constantly Jumping all over the place and neither storyline recieving proper screentime to really feel developed or interesting. It's Alabasta all over again. Although I suspect that that the subplots will decrease towards the end of the arc. At least I hope that the splitting up of the story doesn't increase as it did in Alabasta. If you think about what we know of the architecture, everyone (except the people on the sunny) is basically advancing towards the same location: The palace/toyhouse/colosseum I would say that Luffy will get stalled in some way in the palace, then we will see the harbour with Usopp, Robin, the dwarves and later Franky play out, then the fighting tournament will finish, leading Rebecca and whoever else matters through the toyhouse to the palace and when everyone else is finished we will have the Luffy/Law vs. Doflamingo fight as the big finish. At least it would make the most sense to me to do it in that order.
Well, i see your point. But in alabasta i felt a lot more tension, since there was alot more at stake: We had Luffy confronting a Schichibukai for the first time, a situation were victory would shoot up the strawhats ten notches in terms of reputation and achievements, and a loss would mean the annihalation of Alabasta, wich i at least personally had grown to care about since Vivi had been with the strawhats for 50% of the printed chapters at that time. The Strawhats had grown very attatched to her at that point, so they had a good reason to go out of their way to help her.
Two chapters of king riku/doffy flashbacks with throw-away scenes of post-timeskip clown franky crying like a baby just isnt the same. I would honestly be more invested, and less distracted if the sole purpose of getting into the royal palace was to save law.
I honestly dont really care about the Riku family, toys or gnomes. They have recieved so little exposition and in the case of the dwarves, are simply dull and monotone (in my humble opinion). Wich is ironical, considering Doflamingo has been around for more than a DECADE so despite his horrific actions, i find myself actually rooting for him. I dont want to lose a great recurring villain that i have been curious about since his debut when i was 11 years old, just to see a bunch of dwarves that have barely recieved 40 pagees of screentime over a timespan of about 6 months celebrate.
The fact that it has been pretty clear from the begining that the entire arc is pretty much just a dragging speedbump on the SH+HP alliance way to Kaido also takes away from much of the dramatic climax.
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This is different from Alabasta. This time the Straw Hats stumbled upon a takeover that already took place; there's also a lot of exposition which makes me interested with the Riku family, the Celestial Dragons (and DDs relationship to them), hearing more about Sabo and so on. Alabasta was the first Sichibukai Luffy took out, this is the first time Luffy is going to take on the combined strength of an Admiral and a highly renowned pirate. We're also stumbling onto Norland, AGAIN. We're also going to learn more about DD. Law's past as well.
I love this arc, it's very stacked, it's unpredictable, it's a lot of fun to read.
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On January 17 2014 19:32 Incognoto wrote:
This is different from Alabasta. This time the Straw Hats stumbled upon a takeover that already took place; there's also a lot of exposition which makes me interested with the Riku family, the Celestial Dragons (and DDs relationship to them), hearing more about Sabo and so on. Alabasta was the first Sichibukai Luffy took out, this is the first time Luffy is going to take on the combined strength of an Admiral and a highly renowned pirate. We're also stumbling onto Norland, AGAIN. We're also going to learn more about DD. Law's past as well.
I love this arc, it's very stacked, it's unpredictable, it's a lot of fun to read.
I agree about Sabo, Doffy and Laws past. Wich is why i honestly think it should have been the sole focus of the Arc (colosseum+law and DD backstory+more information about the Celestial dragons and possibly the void century).
The Dwarves and Toys have pretty much felt like unnessecary "filler material" from the start and i have often found myself skipping over those pages on my first chapter readthroughs simply to get to the actual exciting part.
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They're the natural residents of Dressrosa and they're relevant to the story. Dressrosa would be a lot more bland if not for them.
The Toys are more the result of Dofla's crew being scary imo. Dofla is a like a businessman, these toys are more a part of Dofla's business than Dressrosa itself. It's how Dofla took over the country.
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If mute purple flying pigs in diapers were natural residents of dressrosa and opressed by the Donquixote family, they would be relevant to the story too. Does that mean i would have to like them?
To clarify, i dont really mind the concept of people being turned into toy slaves. Neither to i mind the concept of a dwarf race (especially not considering the norland foreshadowing in jaya). But having them both shoved into an already massivley stacked story arc, with an overblown relevance to the story compared to the actual exposition and development they have recieved, it does make them feels too much like a "Give the rest of the SHs something to do-device".
If the dwarves had more distinguisible individual design and personalities, i might have liked them. But as it stands i really cant tell one from another. They are painfully underdeveloped and monotone compared to, for example, the "angels" of skypeia, and the reason is painfully obvious: There has not been enough space for oda to really focus his attention on them because there is so much else going on in this arc. I hold firmly to the belief that if you cant do a concept proper justice, you might aswell not include it at all and save the idea for a better moment, because otherwise it just turns into a distraction.
To quote Shakespear: "Brevity is the soul of wit." Dont waste my time, keep things nice and simple. shoving as many elements and factions as possible into a story without proper exposition and screentime is not a very good idea and it is somewhat uncharacteristic of Oda.
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On January 17 2014 19:16 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 19:04 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 17:23 RenSC2 wrote:On January 17 2014 17:08 DODswe4 wrote:On January 17 2014 16:28 Incognoto wrote:On January 17 2014 08:23 Mataza wrote:On January 17 2014 05:21 PVJ wrote:On January 16 2014 04:41 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2014 04:16 sumsaR wrote:On January 16 2014 04:03 Canucklehead wrote:
[quote]
Yes, I'm kind of confused about this page as doesn't it imply viola is still working for DD and planning to backstab the strawhats? No, he's just saying that it was she who insisted he should break the alliance (assumably) to spite King Riku (in essence how bad his daughter has become under Dofla's command). At the time she was on his side. It's only recently she switched. On January 16 2014 04:37 shark. wrote:
I took it as DD's way of saying Viola had betrayed him which would lead to him defeating the strawhats and by her betrayal this would be absolute. So as in the twisted way DD likes to spin things he saying that her betrayal means hes paying more attention and has a greater want to destroy the Alliance and that by her betrayal she almost wants him to crush them.
I'm finding it difficult to put into words, sorry. I just clicked on the page again to reread and the translation for the last part has been updated and corrected, so no more confusion! http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/734/2212/18Original translation - "She's the one who insisted I break it!" New translation - "She's betting everything on it to defeat me!" This totally clears it up now as the two translations have complete opposite meanings. Thank god viola isn't a double double agent as that would break sanji's heart! People should get the idea now that mangastream, mangapanda are shit. Here's a translation which isn't rushed and makes things quite clear: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/218558/one-piece_ch734_by_powermanga2 things; 1) What's happening to Franky? Is he jumping back on his feet, or getting drowned by the swamp thing? 2) When was Cavendish exactly introduced? I'm just trying to put a timeframe on how far ahead does Oda has to plan, at least. Great chapter although a bit disappointing ending. Hey, Mangastream is good enough. Even though they tend to choose certain kind of juvenile phrasing from time to time. Franky is still being supplexed by the ground swimming guy. Cavendish was introduced shortly before the fighting tournament. Oda certainly plans way more ahead than that though. Its safe to say that all the events of this arc are already planned in detail. One of Odas more amazing pieces of foreshadowing was the mentioning of "Smile" on the Shabaody Archipelago before the timeskip. There are more cases like this that each have hundreds of chapters inbetween and still are absolutely seamless. The biggest sign of Odas planning though is the entire lack of contradictions. The biggest plothole One Piece has to date is the fact that Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was a kid. And it's been reported that Oda has laid out all the major plot points until the very end of the manga to a select few people in case he dies before he can complete it himself. I'm curious as to how that's a plot hole? The anime has a few plot holes but the manga doesn't as far as I know. I think maybe one but I can't think about it. I've definitely seen Chopper eat two Rumbles in less than 6 hours in the anime before, before the Water 7 arc. its a plot hole because if luffy could blow the sea king away when he started hes journey, there is no way shanks would lose an arm Yeah, it's considered a plot hole because of how strong Shanks turns out to be. We're not sure if he was a Yonko at the time, but he was definitely extremely powerful and was a dueling partner of Mihawk before he lost his arm. We also later learned that he was a master of Haki, so it'd be pretty surprising for a Sea King to sneak up on him like that. We could write it off as an extraordinary Sea King, except that Luffy knocks it out with one punch on his way off the island. So really, it seems like a plot hole, but possibly the only major plothole in the entire manga. As for last chapter, I was a little dissapointed in how the arena turned out. I guess all that theorizing not panning out was a letdown and Meadows just turned out to be a chump. At least Oda didn't randomly bring a whole new character in that we had no chance at guessing. He also found a way for Rebecca to move on, without her actually being out of place on the power scale. Finally, he showed why Cavendish has such a high bounty, despite Luffy easily being able to stop Cavendish's sword with his bare hands. I'm glad that Cavendish turned out to be more than just a chump, otherwise bounty inflation would get silly. So overall, the conclusion of block D made sense, even if Mr. Split personality kinda came out of nowhere unless you got the reference to Cavendish Square from Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. It will be interesting to see when Hakuba comes out next. edit: and yes, the Power Manga translation seems to be the best for clarity. Mangastream is pretty good and fast. Mangapanda is usually okay and it's the fastest, but sometimes can totally change the meaning of a sentence during translation which leads to a lot of confusion. Ive seen this "plot hole" come up alot. Is it not just possible that luffy was about to get munched by a sea king when shanks wasn't paying attention / was too far away that all he could do was throw himself in front of its mouth in time? I cant remember the specifics about the scenes from the manga / anime but it seems a logical explanation to me. Whenever we saw shanks in luffy's flashbacks he is just relaxing and having a good time so probably wasn't paying much attention to focusing his haki on threats. We also can't know for sure how strong he was during that period, look at the growth in luffy in just 2 years wasn't the incident something like ~12-15 years before the present / pre-timeskip? He could have been many many times weaker then he is now. This is including mihawk too, considering the only solid proof we have of his strength is him being a sparring partner of mihawk. Where is the information that states these two were badass 12 years ago? Afterall, him and buggy were probably comparable to the weakest members of the strawhat crew on rogers ship. Whitebeard mentions how everyone was surprised Shanks returned missing an arm and asked what kind of enemy he lost it to. While it may be difficult to estimate Shanks' strength at the time, he was at least strong enough that Whitebeard recognized his strength.
Im still not really buying it, being surprised someone lost an arm? If your mother wheeled herself out the kitchen tomorrow with no legs im pretty sure you'd be surprised (god forbid). Granted its the OP universe but the point remains, anybody you know losing a bodypart is pretty wtf.
Whitebeard was Rogers rival, he fought him countless times, he's sure enough to know shanks just through that. Asking how shanks lost his arm isnt really recognising his strength at all, its asking how someone you know lost their arm. Im not saying he didnt but it isnt proof.
On January 17 2014 19:14 AsnSensation wrote:
At the time he already traveled the grand line as part of te strongest crew in the world. Even as a cabin boy i expect him to easily destroy a little east blue seaking with 1 finger. Obviously oda didn't intend to make him one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world in the very first chapter.
Would you expect all of the strawhat crew to be able to defeat a sea king easily? I dont think nami or ussop could flick their fingers and make one drop as it was lunging to attack.
AFAIK a "cabin boy" or poop deck assistant is a pretty lowly role on a pirate ship, we dont know how many members were a part of rogers crew (in fact its mentioned fairly often how small the SH crew is by comparison to pretty much all other crews) and i highly doubt that two (buggy) would be made cabin boy's without all other major roles of a ship being filled, they would have to be extremely weak in comparison to the top-brass. Remembering that nami and ussop are by far the weakest of the strawhat crew and still hold titles of navigator and marksmen because of their outstanding talents.
Buggy is another anomaly. He held the same status as shanks, they were/are as brothers. Yet he is one of the first enemies defeated by luffy (and didnt pose much of a challenge either.) when he begins his journey. The incident with the sea king happened ~12 years prior to this as i mentioned (rough estimate, a good few years at least as its prior to sabo/ace/luffy flashback.), granted shanks vastly outgrows buggy to a massive extent due to buggys lack of commitment and he has Haki but do you really think he could be so absurdly overpowered via comparison to buggy 12 years prior? When buggy himself gets a pretty huge "power up" at impel down after a short period of time.
Also do we know that shanks even had his conq. haki under control at the time or that it was an outburst a-la Luffy pre-timeskip?
Im looking at this from a completely different perspective to you all but i think i raise very valid points (and alot of them too) as to why shanks losing his arm isnt exactly unfeasible and a definite plot hole.
Dont think im trying to instigate anything more then a good discussion on the topic because its been bothering me for a while how you all 100% think its a plothole when i dont think it is at all.
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You're in the minority sc2holar (you too Omnishroud, but I won't bother replying because others will point out the flaws in your "valid points"). The dwarves bring lots of background to the story. How else would we have found out about the country's several hundred year old past otherwise? They're an amazing plot device, and the force that is necessary for the revolution against DD. That particular subplot wouldn't be possible without them, instead having to rely on a bunch of weak commoners after they've turned back to human form.
As for not recognizing them, how long have they been around? Not very long. Skypie initially had like sub 5 "important" skypeia characters. Not too hard to keep track of after many chapters. It's on a whole another scale. Just give it time and don't skip stuff (how are you expected to know when you've admitted to not bothering to read it?), and it'll come to you too.
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On January 17 2014 22:32 Omnishroud wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2014 19:16 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 19:04 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 17:23 RenSC2 wrote:On January 17 2014 17:08 DODswe4 wrote:On January 17 2014 16:28 Incognoto wrote:On January 17 2014 08:23 Mataza wrote:On January 17 2014 05:21 PVJ wrote:On January 16 2014 04:41 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2014 04:16 sumsaR wrote:On January 16 2014 04:03 Canucklehead wrote:
[quote]
Yes, I'm kind of confused about this page as doesn't it imply viola is still working for DD and planning to backstab the strawhats? No, he's just saying that it was she who insisted he should break the alliance (assumably) to spite King Riku (in essence how bad his daughter has become under Dofla's command). At the time she was on his side. It's only recently she switched. On January 16 2014 04:37 shark. wrote:
I took it as DD's way of saying Viola had betrayed him which would lead to him defeating the strawhats and by her betrayal this would be absolute. So as in the twisted way DD likes to spin things he saying that her betrayal means hes paying more attention and has a greater want to destroy the Alliance and that by her betrayal she almost wants him to crush them.
I'm finding it difficult to put into words, sorry. I just clicked on the page again to reread and the translation for the last part has been updated and corrected, so no more confusion! http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/734/2212/18Original translation - "She's the one who insisted I break it!" New translation - "She's betting everything on it to defeat me!" This totally clears it up now as the two translations have complete opposite meanings. Thank god viola isn't a double double agent as that would break sanji's heart! People should get the idea now that mangastream, mangapanda are shit. Here's a translation which isn't rushed and makes things quite clear: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/218558/one-piece_ch734_by_powermanga2 things; 1) What's happening to Franky? Is he jumping back on his feet, or getting drowned by the swamp thing? 2) When was Cavendish exactly introduced? I'm just trying to put a timeframe on how far ahead does Oda has to plan, at least. Great chapter although a bit disappointing ending. Hey, Mangastream is good enough. Even though they tend to choose certain kind of juvenile phrasing from time to time. Franky is still being supplexed by the ground swimming guy. Cavendish was introduced shortly before the fighting tournament. Oda certainly plans way more ahead than that though. Its safe to say that all the events of this arc are already planned in detail. One of Odas more amazing pieces of foreshadowing was the mentioning of "Smile" on the Shabaody Archipelago before the timeskip. There are more cases like this that each have hundreds of chapters inbetween and still are absolutely seamless. The biggest sign of Odas planning though is the entire lack of contradictions. The biggest plothole One Piece has to date is the fact that Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was a kid. And it's been reported that Oda has laid out all the major plot points until the very end of the manga to a select few people in case he dies before he can complete it himself. I'm curious as to how that's a plot hole? The anime has a few plot holes but the manga doesn't as far as I know. I think maybe one but I can't think about it. I've definitely seen Chopper eat two Rumbles in less than 6 hours in the anime before, before the Water 7 arc. its a plot hole because if luffy could blow the sea king away when he started hes journey, there is no way shanks would lose an arm Yeah, it's considered a plot hole because of how strong Shanks turns out to be. We're not sure if he was a Yonko at the time, but he was definitely extremely powerful and was a dueling partner of Mihawk before he lost his arm. We also later learned that he was a master of Haki, so it'd be pretty surprising for a Sea King to sneak up on him like that. We could write it off as an extraordinary Sea King, except that Luffy knocks it out with one punch on his way off the island. So really, it seems like a plot hole, but possibly the only major plothole in the entire manga. As for last chapter, I was a little dissapointed in how the arena turned out. I guess all that theorizing not panning out was a letdown and Meadows just turned out to be a chump. At least Oda didn't randomly bring a whole new character in that we had no chance at guessing. He also found a way for Rebecca to move on, without her actually being out of place on the power scale. Finally, he showed why Cavendish has such a high bounty, despite Luffy easily being able to stop Cavendish's sword with his bare hands. I'm glad that Cavendish turned out to be more than just a chump, otherwise bounty inflation would get silly. So overall, the conclusion of block D made sense, even if Mr. Split personality kinda came out of nowhere unless you got the reference to Cavendish Square from Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. It will be interesting to see when Hakuba comes out next. edit: and yes, the Power Manga translation seems to be the best for clarity. Mangastream is pretty good and fast. Mangapanda is usually okay and it's the fastest, but sometimes can totally change the meaning of a sentence during translation which leads to a lot of confusion. Ive seen this "plot hole" come up alot. Is it not just possible that luffy was about to get munched by a sea king when shanks wasn't paying attention / was too far away that all he could do was throw himself in front of its mouth in time? I cant remember the specifics about the scenes from the manga / anime but it seems a logical explanation to me. Whenever we saw shanks in luffy's flashbacks he is just relaxing and having a good time so probably wasn't paying much attention to focusing his haki on threats. We also can't know for sure how strong he was during that period, look at the growth in luffy in just 2 years wasn't the incident something like ~12-15 years before the present / pre-timeskip? He could have been many many times weaker then he is now. This is including mihawk too, considering the only solid proof we have of his strength is him being a sparring partner of mihawk. Where is the information that states these two were badass 12 years ago? Afterall, him and buggy were probably comparable to the weakest members of the strawhat crew on rogers ship. Whitebeard mentions how everyone was surprised Shanks returned missing an arm and asked what kind of enemy he lost it to. While it may be difficult to estimate Shanks' strength at the time, he was at least strong enough that Whitebeard recognized his strength. Im still not really buying it, being surprised someone lost an arm? If your mother wheeled herself out the kitchen tomorrow with no legs im pretty sure you'd be surprised (god forbid). Granted its the OP universe but the point remains, anybody you know losing a bodypart is pretty wtf. Whitebeard was Rogers rival, he fought him countless times, he's sure enough to know shanks just through that. Asking how shanks lost his arm isnt really recognising his strength at all, its asking how someone you know lost their arm. Im not saying he didnt but it isnt proof. On January 17 2014 19:14 AsnSensation wrote:
At the time he already traveled the grand line as part of te strongest crew in the world. Even as a cabin boy i expect him to easily destroy a little east blue seaking with 1 finger. Obviously oda didn't intend to make him one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world in the very first chapter. Would you expect all of the strawhat crew to be able to defeat a sea king easily? I dont think nami or ussop could flick their fingers and make one drop as it was lunging to attack. AFAIK a "cabin boy" or poop deck assistant is a pretty lowly role on a pirate ship, we dont know how many members were a part of rogers crew (in fact its mentioned fairly often how small the SH crew is by comparison to pretty much all other crews) and i highly doubt that two (buggy) would be made cabin boy's without all other major roles of a ship being filled, they would have to be extremely weak in comparison to the top-brass. Remembering that nami and ussop are by far the weakest of the strawhat crew and still hold titles of navigator and marksmen because of their outstanding talents. Buggy is another anomaly. He held the same status as shanks, they were/are as brothers. Yet he is one of the first enemies defeated by luffy (and didnt pose much of a challenge either.) when he begins his journey. The incident with the sea king happened ~12 years prior to this as i mentioned (rough estimate, a good few years at least as its prior to sabo/ace/luffy flashback.), granted shanks vastly outgrows buggy to a massive extent due to buggys lack of commitment and he has Haki but do you really think he could be so absurdly overpowered via comparison to buggy 12 years prior? When buggy himself gets a pretty huge "power up" at impel down after a short period of time. Also do we know that shanks even had his conq. haki under control at the time or that it was an outburst a-la Luffy pre-timeskip? Im looking at this from a completely different perspective to you all but i think i raise very valid points (and alot of them too) as to why shanks losing his arm isnt exactly unfeasible and a definite plot hole. Dont think im trying to instigate anything more then a good discussion on the topic because its been bothering me for a while how you all 100% think its a plothole when i dont think it is at all.
Definitely, you raise some interesting points. The way I always saw it is that it is THE very first chapter, published 17 years ago. For us Oda-Sensei is a god and obviously does a lot of longterm planning. But I'm sure it wasn't planned in 1997 to make Shanks a Top 4 Pirate ruling a greater part of the Ocean but more of a Idol figure for Luffy and average pirate who enjoys the sea and has fun with his nakama. Obviously him losing his arm for Luffy vs an East Blue "seaking" seems weird after we got to know more and more about his background and position in the world but back then it was to emphasize Luffy's motivation to become a pirate like Shanks.
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On January 17 2014 22:45 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 22:32 Omnishroud wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2014 19:16 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 19:04 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 17:23 RenSC2 wrote:On January 17 2014 17:08 DODswe4 wrote:On January 17 2014 16:28 Incognoto wrote:On January 17 2014 08:23 Mataza wrote:On January 17 2014 05:21 PVJ wrote:On January 16 2014 04:41 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2014 04:16 sumsaR wrote:On January 16 2014 04:03 Canucklehead wrote:
[quote]
Yes, I'm kind of confused about this page as doesn't it imply viola is still working for DD and planning to backstab the strawhats? No, he's just saying that it was she who insisted he should break the alliance (assumably) to spite King Riku (in essence how bad his daughter has become under Dofla's command). At the time she was on his side. It's only recently she switched. On January 16 2014 04:37 shark. wrote:
I took it as DD's way of saying Viola had betrayed him which would lead to him defeating the strawhats and by her betrayal this would be absolute. So as in the twisted way DD likes to spin things he saying that her betrayal means hes paying more attention and has a greater want to destroy the Alliance and that by her betrayal she almost wants him to crush them.
I'm finding it difficult to put into words, sorry. I just clicked on the page again to reread and the translation for the last part has been updated and corrected, so no more confusion! http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/734/2212/18Original translation - "She's the one who insisted I break it!" New translation - "She's betting everything on it to defeat me!" This totally clears it up now as the two translations have complete opposite meanings. Thank god viola isn't a double double agent as that would break sanji's heart! People should get the idea now that mangastream, mangapanda are shit. Here's a translation which isn't rushed and makes things quite clear: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/218558/one-piece_ch734_by_powermanga2 things; 1) What's happening to Franky? Is he jumping back on his feet, or getting drowned by the swamp thing? 2) When was Cavendish exactly introduced? I'm just trying to put a timeframe on how far ahead does Oda has to plan, at least. Great chapter although a bit disappointing ending. Hey, Mangastream is good enough. Even though they tend to choose certain kind of juvenile phrasing from time to time. Franky is still being supplexed by the ground swimming guy. Cavendish was introduced shortly before the fighting tournament. Oda certainly plans way more ahead than that though. Its safe to say that all the events of this arc are already planned in detail. One of Odas more amazing pieces of foreshadowing was the mentioning of "Smile" on the Shabaody Archipelago before the timeskip. There are more cases like this that each have hundreds of chapters inbetween and still are absolutely seamless. The biggest sign of Odas planning though is the entire lack of contradictions. The biggest plothole One Piece has to date is the fact that Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was a kid. And it's been reported that Oda has laid out all the major plot points until the very end of the manga to a select few people in case he dies before he can complete it himself. I'm curious as to how that's a plot hole? The anime has a few plot holes but the manga doesn't as far as I know. I think maybe one but I can't think about it. I've definitely seen Chopper eat two Rumbles in less than 6 hours in the anime before, before the Water 7 arc. its a plot hole because if luffy could blow the sea king away when he started hes journey, there is no way shanks would lose an arm Yeah, it's considered a plot hole because of how strong Shanks turns out to be. We're not sure if he was a Yonko at the time, but he was definitely extremely powerful and was a dueling partner of Mihawk before he lost his arm. We also later learned that he was a master of Haki, so it'd be pretty surprising for a Sea King to sneak up on him like that. We could write it off as an extraordinary Sea King, except that Luffy knocks it out with one punch on his way off the island. So really, it seems like a plot hole, but possibly the only major plothole in the entire manga. As for last chapter, I was a little dissapointed in how the arena turned out. I guess all that theorizing not panning out was a letdown and Meadows just turned out to be a chump. At least Oda didn't randomly bring a whole new character in that we had no chance at guessing. He also found a way for Rebecca to move on, without her actually being out of place on the power scale. Finally, he showed why Cavendish has such a high bounty, despite Luffy easily being able to stop Cavendish's sword with his bare hands. I'm glad that Cavendish turned out to be more than just a chump, otherwise bounty inflation would get silly. So overall, the conclusion of block D made sense, even if Mr. Split personality kinda came out of nowhere unless you got the reference to Cavendish Square from Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. It will be interesting to see when Hakuba comes out next. edit: and yes, the Power Manga translation seems to be the best for clarity. Mangastream is pretty good and fast. Mangapanda is usually okay and it's the fastest, but sometimes can totally change the meaning of a sentence during translation which leads to a lot of confusion. Ive seen this "plot hole" come up alot. Is it not just possible that luffy was about to get munched by a sea king when shanks wasn't paying attention / was too far away that all he could do was throw himself in front of its mouth in time? I cant remember the specifics about the scenes from the manga / anime but it seems a logical explanation to me. Whenever we saw shanks in luffy's flashbacks he is just relaxing and having a good time so probably wasn't paying much attention to focusing his haki on threats. We also can't know for sure how strong he was during that period, look at the growth in luffy in just 2 years wasn't the incident something like ~12-15 years before the present / pre-timeskip? He could have been many many times weaker then he is now. This is including mihawk too, considering the only solid proof we have of his strength is him being a sparring partner of mihawk. Where is the information that states these two were badass 12 years ago? Afterall, him and buggy were probably comparable to the weakest members of the strawhat crew on rogers ship. Whitebeard mentions how everyone was surprised Shanks returned missing an arm and asked what kind of enemy he lost it to. While it may be difficult to estimate Shanks' strength at the time, he was at least strong enough that Whitebeard recognized his strength. Im still not really buying it, being surprised someone lost an arm? If your mother wheeled herself out the kitchen tomorrow with no legs im pretty sure you'd be surprised (god forbid). Granted its the OP universe but the point remains, anybody you know losing a bodypart is pretty wtf. Whitebeard was Rogers rival, he fought him countless times, he's sure enough to know shanks just through that. Asking how shanks lost his arm isnt really recognising his strength at all, its asking how someone you know lost their arm. Im not saying he didnt but it isnt proof. On January 17 2014 19:14 AsnSensation wrote:
At the time he already traveled the grand line as part of te strongest crew in the world. Even as a cabin boy i expect him to easily destroy a little east blue seaking with 1 finger. Obviously oda didn't intend to make him one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world in the very first chapter. Would you expect all of the strawhat crew to be able to defeat a sea king easily? I dont think nami or ussop could flick their fingers and make one drop as it was lunging to attack. AFAIK a "cabin boy" or poop deck assistant is a pretty lowly role on a pirate ship, we dont know how many members were a part of rogers crew (in fact its mentioned fairly often how small the SH crew is by comparison to pretty much all other crews) and i highly doubt that two (buggy) would be made cabin boy's without all other major roles of a ship being filled, they would have to be extremely weak in comparison to the top-brass. Remembering that nami and ussop are by far the weakest of the strawhat crew and still hold titles of navigator and marksmen because of their outstanding talents. Buggy is another anomaly. He held the same status as shanks, they were/are as brothers. Yet he is one of the first enemies defeated by luffy (and didnt pose much of a challenge either.) when he begins his journey. The incident with the sea king happened ~12 years prior to this as i mentioned (rough estimate, a good few years at least as its prior to sabo/ace/luffy flashback.), granted shanks vastly outgrows buggy to a massive extent due to buggys lack of commitment and he has Haki but do you really think he could be so absurdly overpowered via comparison to buggy 12 years prior? When buggy himself gets a pretty huge "power up" at impel down after a short period of time. Also do we know that shanks even had his conq. haki under control at the time or that it was an outburst a-la Luffy pre-timeskip? Im looking at this from a completely different perspective to you all but i think i raise very valid points (and alot of them too) as to why shanks losing his arm isnt exactly unfeasible and a definite plot hole. Dont think im trying to instigate anything more then a good discussion on the topic because its been bothering me for a while how you all 100% think its a plothole when i dont think it is at all. Definitely, you raise some interesting points. The way I always saw it is that it is THE very first chapter, published 17 years ago. For us Oda-Sensei is a god and obviously does a lot of longterm planning. But I'm sure it wasn't planned in 1997 to make Shanks a Top 4 Pirate ruling a greater part of the Ocean but more of a Idol figure for Luffy and average pirate who enjoys the sea and has fun with his nakama. Obviously him losing his arm for Luffy vs an East Blue "seaking" seems weird after we got to know more and more about his background and position in the world but back then it was to emphasize Luffy's motivation to become a pirate like Shanks.
Yeah, a few things i said may have been off-point, i just read / watch i dont do in-depth research or anything but even after posting i was thinking up more and more bits and pieces that could be used in defense of shanks losing his arm.
It could very well be a plothole but there is more then enough information and backstory to back-up him legitimately losing it at that period of time.
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On January 17 2014 22:45 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 22:32 Omnishroud wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2014 19:16 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 19:04 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 17:23 RenSC2 wrote:On January 17 2014 17:08 DODswe4 wrote:On January 17 2014 16:28 Incognoto wrote:On January 17 2014 08:23 Mataza wrote:On January 17 2014 05:21 PVJ wrote:On January 16 2014 04:41 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2014 04:16 sumsaR wrote:On January 16 2014 04:03 Canucklehead wrote:
[quote]
Yes, I'm kind of confused about this page as doesn't it imply viola is still working for DD and planning to backstab the strawhats? No, he's just saying that it was she who insisted he should break the alliance (assumably) to spite King Riku (in essence how bad his daughter has become under Dofla's command). At the time she was on his side. It's only recently she switched. On January 16 2014 04:37 shark. wrote:
I took it as DD's way of saying Viola had betrayed him which would lead to him defeating the strawhats and by her betrayal this would be absolute. So as in the twisted way DD likes to spin things he saying that her betrayal means hes paying more attention and has a greater want to destroy the Alliance and that by her betrayal she almost wants him to crush them.
I'm finding it difficult to put into words, sorry. I just clicked on the page again to reread and the translation for the last part has been updated and corrected, so no more confusion! http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/734/2212/18Original translation - "She's the one who insisted I break it!" New translation - "She's betting everything on it to defeat me!" This totally clears it up now as the two translations have complete opposite meanings. Thank god viola isn't a double double agent as that would break sanji's heart! People should get the idea now that mangastream, mangapanda are shit. Here's a translation which isn't rushed and makes things quite clear: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/218558/one-piece_ch734_by_powermanga2 things; 1) What's happening to Franky? Is he jumping back on his feet, or getting drowned by the swamp thing? 2) When was Cavendish exactly introduced? I'm just trying to put a timeframe on how far ahead does Oda has to plan, at least. Great chapter although a bit disappointing ending. Hey, Mangastream is good enough. Even though they tend to choose certain kind of juvenile phrasing from time to time. Franky is still being supplexed by the ground swimming guy. Cavendish was introduced shortly before the fighting tournament. Oda certainly plans way more ahead than that though. Its safe to say that all the events of this arc are already planned in detail. One of Odas more amazing pieces of foreshadowing was the mentioning of "Smile" on the Shabaody Archipelago before the timeskip. There are more cases like this that each have hundreds of chapters inbetween and still are absolutely seamless. The biggest sign of Odas planning though is the entire lack of contradictions. The biggest plothole One Piece has to date is the fact that Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was a kid. And it's been reported that Oda has laid out all the major plot points until the very end of the manga to a select few people in case he dies before he can complete it himself. I'm curious as to how that's a plot hole? The anime has a few plot holes but the manga doesn't as far as I know. I think maybe one but I can't think about it. I've definitely seen Chopper eat two Rumbles in less than 6 hours in the anime before, before the Water 7 arc. its a plot hole because if luffy could blow the sea king away when he started hes journey, there is no way shanks would lose an arm Yeah, it's considered a plot hole because of how strong Shanks turns out to be. We're not sure if he was a Yonko at the time, but he was definitely extremely powerful and was a dueling partner of Mihawk before he lost his arm. We also later learned that he was a master of Haki, so it'd be pretty surprising for a Sea King to sneak up on him like that. We could write it off as an extraordinary Sea King, except that Luffy knocks it out with one punch on his way off the island. So really, it seems like a plot hole, but possibly the only major plothole in the entire manga. As for last chapter, I was a little dissapointed in how the arena turned out. I guess all that theorizing not panning out was a letdown and Meadows just turned out to be a chump. At least Oda didn't randomly bring a whole new character in that we had no chance at guessing. He also found a way for Rebecca to move on, without her actually being out of place on the power scale. Finally, he showed why Cavendish has such a high bounty, despite Luffy easily being able to stop Cavendish's sword with his bare hands. I'm glad that Cavendish turned out to be more than just a chump, otherwise bounty inflation would get silly. So overall, the conclusion of block D made sense, even if Mr. Split personality kinda came out of nowhere unless you got the reference to Cavendish Square from Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. It will be interesting to see when Hakuba comes out next. edit: and yes, the Power Manga translation seems to be the best for clarity. Mangastream is pretty good and fast. Mangapanda is usually okay and it's the fastest, but sometimes can totally change the meaning of a sentence during translation which leads to a lot of confusion. Ive seen this "plot hole" come up alot. Is it not just possible that luffy was about to get munched by a sea king when shanks wasn't paying attention / was too far away that all he could do was throw himself in front of its mouth in time? I cant remember the specifics about the scenes from the manga / anime but it seems a logical explanation to me. Whenever we saw shanks in luffy's flashbacks he is just relaxing and having a good time so probably wasn't paying much attention to focusing his haki on threats. We also can't know for sure how strong he was during that period, look at the growth in luffy in just 2 years wasn't the incident something like ~12-15 years before the present / pre-timeskip? He could have been many many times weaker then he is now. This is including mihawk too, considering the only solid proof we have of his strength is him being a sparring partner of mihawk. Where is the information that states these two were badass 12 years ago? Afterall, him and buggy were probably comparable to the weakest members of the strawhat crew on rogers ship. Whitebeard mentions how everyone was surprised Shanks returned missing an arm and asked what kind of enemy he lost it to. While it may be difficult to estimate Shanks' strength at the time, he was at least strong enough that Whitebeard recognized his strength. Im still not really buying it, being surprised someone lost an arm? If your mother wheeled herself out the kitchen tomorrow with no legs im pretty sure you'd be surprised (god forbid). Granted its the OP universe but the point remains, anybody you know losing a bodypart is pretty wtf. Whitebeard was Rogers rival, he fought him countless times, he's sure enough to know shanks just through that. Asking how shanks lost his arm isnt really recognising his strength at all, its asking how someone you know lost their arm. Im not saying he didnt but it isnt proof. On January 17 2014 19:14 AsnSensation wrote:
At the time he already traveled the grand line as part of te strongest crew in the world. Even as a cabin boy i expect him to easily destroy a little east blue seaking with 1 finger. Obviously oda didn't intend to make him one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world in the very first chapter. Would you expect all of the strawhat crew to be able to defeat a sea king easily? I dont think nami or ussop could flick their fingers and make one drop as it was lunging to attack. AFAIK a "cabin boy" or poop deck assistant is a pretty lowly role on a pirate ship, we dont know how many members were a part of rogers crew (in fact its mentioned fairly often how small the SH crew is by comparison to pretty much all other crews) and i highly doubt that two (buggy) would be made cabin boy's without all other major roles of a ship being filled, they would have to be extremely weak in comparison to the top-brass. Remembering that nami and ussop are by far the weakest of the strawhat crew and still hold titles of navigator and marksmen because of their outstanding talents. Buggy is another anomaly. He held the same status as shanks, they were/are as brothers. Yet he is one of the first enemies defeated by luffy (and didnt pose much of a challenge either.) when he begins his journey. The incident with the sea king happened ~12 years prior to this as i mentioned (rough estimate, a good few years at least as its prior to sabo/ace/luffy flashback.), granted shanks vastly outgrows buggy to a massive extent due to buggys lack of commitment and he has Haki but do you really think he could be so absurdly overpowered via comparison to buggy 12 years prior? When buggy himself gets a pretty huge "power up" at impel down after a short period of time. Also do we know that shanks even had his conq. haki under control at the time or that it was an outburst a-la Luffy pre-timeskip? Im looking at this from a completely different perspective to you all but i think i raise very valid points (and alot of them too) as to why shanks losing his arm isnt exactly unfeasible and a definite plot hole. Dont think im trying to instigate anything more then a good discussion on the topic because its been bothering me for a while how you all 100% think its a plothole when i dont think it is at all. Definitely, you raise some interesting points. The way I always saw it is that it is THE very first chapter, published 17 years ago. For us Oda-Sensei is a god and obviously does a lot of longterm planning. But I'm sure it wasn't planned in 1997 to make Shanks a Top 4 Pirate ruling a greater part of the Ocean but more of a Idol figure for Luffy and average pirate who enjoys the sea and has fun with his nakama. Obviously him losing his arm for Luffy vs an East Blue "seaking" seems weird after we got to know more and more about his background and position in the world but back then it was to emphasize Luffy's motivation to become a pirate like Shanks.
I wouldnt be so sure. Remember, Rayleigh is featured in the first Buggy-shanks flashback in volume 2 (i think?) so never underestimate Odas planning. He gone on record to say that he had the whole story mapped out in broad terms since he first started writing.
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On January 17 2014 22:45 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 22:32 Omnishroud wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2014 19:16 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 19:04 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 17:23 RenSC2 wrote:On January 17 2014 17:08 DODswe4 wrote:On January 17 2014 16:28 Incognoto wrote:On January 17 2014 08:23 Mataza wrote:On January 17 2014 05:21 PVJ wrote:On January 16 2014 04:41 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2014 04:16 sumsaR wrote:On January 16 2014 04:03 Canucklehead wrote:
[quote]
Yes, I'm kind of confused about this page as doesn't it imply viola is still working for DD and planning to backstab the strawhats? No, he's just saying that it was she who insisted he should break the alliance (assumably) to spite King Riku (in essence how bad his daughter has become under Dofla's command). At the time she was on his side. It's only recently she switched. On January 16 2014 04:37 shark. wrote:
I took it as DD's way of saying Viola had betrayed him which would lead to him defeating the strawhats and by her betrayal this would be absolute. So as in the twisted way DD likes to spin things he saying that her betrayal means hes paying more attention and has a greater want to destroy the Alliance and that by her betrayal she almost wants him to crush them.
I'm finding it difficult to put into words, sorry. I just clicked on the page again to reread and the translation for the last part has been updated and corrected, so no more confusion! http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/734/2212/18Original translation - "She's the one who insisted I break it!" New translation - "She's betting everything on it to defeat me!" This totally clears it up now as the two translations have complete opposite meanings. Thank god viola isn't a double double agent as that would break sanji's heart! People should get the idea now that mangastream, mangapanda are shit. Here's a translation which isn't rushed and makes things quite clear: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/218558/one-piece_ch734_by_powermanga2 things; 1) What's happening to Franky? Is he jumping back on his feet, or getting drowned by the swamp thing? 2) When was Cavendish exactly introduced? I'm just trying to put a timeframe on how far ahead does Oda has to plan, at least. Great chapter although a bit disappointing ending. Hey, Mangastream is good enough. Even though they tend to choose certain kind of juvenile phrasing from time to time. Franky is still being supplexed by the ground swimming guy. Cavendish was introduced shortly before the fighting tournament. Oda certainly plans way more ahead than that though. Its safe to say that all the events of this arc are already planned in detail. One of Odas more amazing pieces of foreshadowing was the mentioning of "Smile" on the Shabaody Archipelago before the timeskip. There are more cases like this that each have hundreds of chapters inbetween and still are absolutely seamless. The biggest sign of Odas planning though is the entire lack of contradictions. The biggest plothole One Piece has to date is the fact that Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was a kid. And it's been reported that Oda has laid out all the major plot points until the very end of the manga to a select few people in case he dies before he can complete it himself. I'm curious as to how that's a plot hole? The anime has a few plot holes but the manga doesn't as far as I know. I think maybe one but I can't think about it. I've definitely seen Chopper eat two Rumbles in less than 6 hours in the anime before, before the Water 7 arc. its a plot hole because if luffy could blow the sea king away when he started hes journey, there is no way shanks would lose an arm Yeah, it's considered a plot hole because of how strong Shanks turns out to be. We're not sure if he was a Yonko at the time, but he was definitely extremely powerful and was a dueling partner of Mihawk before he lost his arm. We also later learned that he was a master of Haki, so it'd be pretty surprising for a Sea King to sneak up on him like that. We could write it off as an extraordinary Sea King, except that Luffy knocks it out with one punch on his way off the island. So really, it seems like a plot hole, but possibly the only major plothole in the entire manga. As for last chapter, I was a little dissapointed in how the arena turned out. I guess all that theorizing not panning out was a letdown and Meadows just turned out to be a chump. At least Oda didn't randomly bring a whole new character in that we had no chance at guessing. He also found a way for Rebecca to move on, without her actually being out of place on the power scale. Finally, he showed why Cavendish has such a high bounty, despite Luffy easily being able to stop Cavendish's sword with his bare hands. I'm glad that Cavendish turned out to be more than just a chump, otherwise bounty inflation would get silly. So overall, the conclusion of block D made sense, even if Mr. Split personality kinda came out of nowhere unless you got the reference to Cavendish Square from Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. It will be interesting to see when Hakuba comes out next. edit: and yes, the Power Manga translation seems to be the best for clarity. Mangastream is pretty good and fast. Mangapanda is usually okay and it's the fastest, but sometimes can totally change the meaning of a sentence during translation which leads to a lot of confusion. Ive seen this "plot hole" come up alot. Is it not just possible that luffy was about to get munched by a sea king when shanks wasn't paying attention / was too far away that all he could do was throw himself in front of its mouth in time? I cant remember the specifics about the scenes from the manga / anime but it seems a logical explanation to me. Whenever we saw shanks in luffy's flashbacks he is just relaxing and having a good time so probably wasn't paying much attention to focusing his haki on threats. We also can't know for sure how strong he was during that period, look at the growth in luffy in just 2 years wasn't the incident something like ~12-15 years before the present / pre-timeskip? He could have been many many times weaker then he is now. This is including mihawk too, considering the only solid proof we have of his strength is him being a sparring partner of mihawk. Where is the information that states these two were badass 12 years ago? Afterall, him and buggy were probably comparable to the weakest members of the strawhat crew on rogers ship. Whitebeard mentions how everyone was surprised Shanks returned missing an arm and asked what kind of enemy he lost it to. While it may be difficult to estimate Shanks' strength at the time, he was at least strong enough that Whitebeard recognized his strength. Im still not really buying it, being surprised someone lost an arm? If your mother wheeled herself out the kitchen tomorrow with no legs im pretty sure you'd be surprised (god forbid). Granted its the OP universe but the point remains, anybody you know losing a bodypart is pretty wtf. Whitebeard was Rogers rival, he fought him countless times, he's sure enough to know shanks just through that. Asking how shanks lost his arm isnt really recognising his strength at all, its asking how someone you know lost their arm. Im not saying he didnt but it isnt proof. On January 17 2014 19:14 AsnSensation wrote:
At the time he already traveled the grand line as part of te strongest crew in the world. Even as a cabin boy i expect him to easily destroy a little east blue seaking with 1 finger. Obviously oda didn't intend to make him one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world in the very first chapter. Would you expect all of the strawhat crew to be able to defeat a sea king easily? I dont think nami or ussop could flick their fingers and make one drop as it was lunging to attack. AFAIK a "cabin boy" or poop deck assistant is a pretty lowly role on a pirate ship, we dont know how many members were a part of rogers crew (in fact its mentioned fairly often how small the SH crew is by comparison to pretty much all other crews) and i highly doubt that two (buggy) would be made cabin boy's without all other major roles of a ship being filled, they would have to be extremely weak in comparison to the top-brass. Remembering that nami and ussop are by far the weakest of the strawhat crew and still hold titles of navigator and marksmen because of their outstanding talents. Buggy is another anomaly. He held the same status as shanks, they were/are as brothers. Yet he is one of the first enemies defeated by luffy (and didnt pose much of a challenge either.) when he begins his journey. The incident with the sea king happened ~12 years prior to this as i mentioned (rough estimate, a good few years at least as its prior to sabo/ace/luffy flashback.), granted shanks vastly outgrows buggy to a massive extent due to buggys lack of commitment and he has Haki but do you really think he could be so absurdly overpowered via comparison to buggy 12 years prior? When buggy himself gets a pretty huge "power up" at impel down after a short period of time. Also do we know that shanks even had his conq. haki under control at the time or that it was an outburst a-la Luffy pre-timeskip? Im looking at this from a completely different perspective to you all but i think i raise very valid points (and alot of them too) as to why shanks losing his arm isnt exactly unfeasible and a definite plot hole. Dont think im trying to instigate anything more then a good discussion on the topic because its been bothering me for a while how you all 100% think its a plothole when i dont think it is at all. Definitely, you raise some interesting points. The way I always saw it is that it is THE very first chapter, published 17 years ago. For us Oda-Sensei is a god and obviously does a lot of longterm planning. But I'm sure it wasn't planned in 1997 to make Shanks a Top 4 Pirate ruling a greater part of the Ocean but more of a Idol figure for Luffy and average pirate who enjoys the sea and has fun with his nakama. Obviously him losing his arm for Luffy vs an East Blue "seaking" seems weird after we got to know more and more about his background and position in the world but back then it was to emphasize Luffy's motivation to become a pirate like Shanks.
how dare you insinuate oda is wrong after you defended him every time someone mention he was wrong. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
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On January 17 2014 23:04 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 22:45 AsnSensation wrote:On January 17 2014 22:32 Omnishroud wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2014 19:16 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 19:04 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 17:23 RenSC2 wrote:On January 17 2014 17:08 DODswe4 wrote:On January 17 2014 16:28 Incognoto wrote:On January 17 2014 08:23 Mataza wrote:On January 17 2014 05:21 PVJ wrote:On January 16 2014 04:41 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2014 04:16 sumsaR wrote:On January 16 2014 04:03 Canucklehead wrote:
[quote]
Yes, I'm kind of confused about this page as doesn't it imply viola is still working for DD and planning to backstab the strawhats? No, he's just saying that it was she who insisted he should break the alliance (assumably) to spite King Riku (in essence how bad his daughter has become under Dofla's command). At the time she was on his side. It's only recently she switched. On January 16 2014 04:37 shark. wrote:
I took it as DD's way of saying Viola had betrayed him which would lead to him defeating the strawhats and by her betrayal this would be absolute. So as in the twisted way DD likes to spin things he saying that her betrayal means hes paying more attention and has a greater want to destroy the Alliance and that by her betrayal she almost wants him to crush them.
I'm finding it difficult to put into words, sorry. I just clicked on the page again to reread and the translation for the last part has been updated and corrected, so no more confusion! http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/734/2212/18Original translation - "She's the one who insisted I break it!" New translation - "She's betting everything on it to defeat me!" This totally clears it up now as the two translations have complete opposite meanings. Thank god viola isn't a double double agent as that would break sanji's heart! People should get the idea now that mangastream, mangapanda are shit. Here's a translation which isn't rushed and makes things quite clear: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/218558/one-piece_ch734_by_powermanga2 things; 1) What's happening to Franky? Is he jumping back on his feet, or getting drowned by the swamp thing? 2) When was Cavendish exactly introduced? I'm just trying to put a timeframe on how far ahead does Oda has to plan, at least. Great chapter although a bit disappointing ending. Hey, Mangastream is good enough. Even though they tend to choose certain kind of juvenile phrasing from time to time. Franky is still being supplexed by the ground swimming guy. Cavendish was introduced shortly before the fighting tournament. Oda certainly plans way more ahead than that though. Its safe to say that all the events of this arc are already planned in detail. One of Odas more amazing pieces of foreshadowing was the mentioning of "Smile" on the Shabaody Archipelago before the timeskip. There are more cases like this that each have hundreds of chapters inbetween and still are absolutely seamless. The biggest sign of Odas planning though is the entire lack of contradictions. The biggest plothole One Piece has to date is the fact that Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was a kid. And it's been reported that Oda has laid out all the major plot points until the very end of the manga to a select few people in case he dies before he can complete it himself. I'm curious as to how that's a plot hole? The anime has a few plot holes but the manga doesn't as far as I know. I think maybe one but I can't think about it. I've definitely seen Chopper eat two Rumbles in less than 6 hours in the anime before, before the Water 7 arc. its a plot hole because if luffy could blow the sea king away when he started hes journey, there is no way shanks would lose an arm Yeah, it's considered a plot hole because of how strong Shanks turns out to be. We're not sure if he was a Yonko at the time, but he was definitely extremely powerful and was a dueling partner of Mihawk before he lost his arm. We also later learned that he was a master of Haki, so it'd be pretty surprising for a Sea King to sneak up on him like that. We could write it off as an extraordinary Sea King, except that Luffy knocks it out with one punch on his way off the island. So really, it seems like a plot hole, but possibly the only major plothole in the entire manga. As for last chapter, I was a little dissapointed in how the arena turned out. I guess all that theorizing not panning out was a letdown and Meadows just turned out to be a chump. At least Oda didn't randomly bring a whole new character in that we had no chance at guessing. He also found a way for Rebecca to move on, without her actually being out of place on the power scale. Finally, he showed why Cavendish has such a high bounty, despite Luffy easily being able to stop Cavendish's sword with his bare hands. I'm glad that Cavendish turned out to be more than just a chump, otherwise bounty inflation would get silly. So overall, the conclusion of block D made sense, even if Mr. Split personality kinda came out of nowhere unless you got the reference to Cavendish Square from Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. It will be interesting to see when Hakuba comes out next. edit: and yes, the Power Manga translation seems to be the best for clarity. Mangastream is pretty good and fast. Mangapanda is usually okay and it's the fastest, but sometimes can totally change the meaning of a sentence during translation which leads to a lot of confusion. Ive seen this "plot hole" come up alot. Is it not just possible that luffy was about to get munched by a sea king when shanks wasn't paying attention / was too far away that all he could do was throw himself in front of its mouth in time? I cant remember the specifics about the scenes from the manga / anime but it seems a logical explanation to me. Whenever we saw shanks in luffy's flashbacks he is just relaxing and having a good time so probably wasn't paying much attention to focusing his haki on threats. We also can't know for sure how strong he was during that period, look at the growth in luffy in just 2 years wasn't the incident something like ~12-15 years before the present / pre-timeskip? He could have been many many times weaker then he is now. This is including mihawk too, considering the only solid proof we have of his strength is him being a sparring partner of mihawk. Where is the information that states these two were badass 12 years ago? Afterall, him and buggy were probably comparable to the weakest members of the strawhat crew on rogers ship. Whitebeard mentions how everyone was surprised Shanks returned missing an arm and asked what kind of enemy he lost it to. While it may be difficult to estimate Shanks' strength at the time, he was at least strong enough that Whitebeard recognized his strength. Im still not really buying it, being surprised someone lost an arm? If your mother wheeled herself out the kitchen tomorrow with no legs im pretty sure you'd be surprised (god forbid). Granted its the OP universe but the point remains, anybody you know losing a bodypart is pretty wtf. Whitebeard was Rogers rival, he fought him countless times, he's sure enough to know shanks just through that. Asking how shanks lost his arm isnt really recognising his strength at all, its asking how someone you know lost their arm. Im not saying he didnt but it isnt proof. On January 17 2014 19:14 AsnSensation wrote:
At the time he already traveled the grand line as part of te strongest crew in the world. Even as a cabin boy i expect him to easily destroy a little east blue seaking with 1 finger. Obviously oda didn't intend to make him one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world in the very first chapter. Would you expect all of the strawhat crew to be able to defeat a sea king easily? I dont think nami or ussop could flick their fingers and make one drop as it was lunging to attack. AFAIK a "cabin boy" or poop deck assistant is a pretty lowly role on a pirate ship, we dont know how many members were a part of rogers crew (in fact its mentioned fairly often how small the SH crew is by comparison to pretty much all other crews) and i highly doubt that two (buggy) would be made cabin boy's without all other major roles of a ship being filled, they would have to be extremely weak in comparison to the top-brass. Remembering that nami and ussop are by far the weakest of the strawhat crew and still hold titles of navigator and marksmen because of their outstanding talents. Buggy is another anomaly. He held the same status as shanks, they were/are as brothers. Yet he is one of the first enemies defeated by luffy (and didnt pose much of a challenge either.) when he begins his journey. The incident with the sea king happened ~12 years prior to this as i mentioned (rough estimate, a good few years at least as its prior to sabo/ace/luffy flashback.), granted shanks vastly outgrows buggy to a massive extent due to buggys lack of commitment and he has Haki but do you really think he could be so absurdly overpowered via comparison to buggy 12 years prior? When buggy himself gets a pretty huge "power up" at impel down after a short period of time. Also do we know that shanks even had his conq. haki under control at the time or that it was an outburst a-la Luffy pre-timeskip? Im looking at this from a completely different perspective to you all but i think i raise very valid points (and alot of them too) as to why shanks losing his arm isnt exactly unfeasible and a definite plot hole. Dont think im trying to instigate anything more then a good discussion on the topic because its been bothering me for a while how you all 100% think its a plothole when i dont think it is at all. Definitely, you raise some interesting points. The way I always saw it is that it is THE very first chapter, published 17 years ago. For us Oda-Sensei is a god and obviously does a lot of longterm planning. But I'm sure it wasn't planned in 1997 to make Shanks a Top 4 Pirate ruling a greater part of the Ocean but more of a Idol figure for Luffy and average pirate who enjoys the sea and has fun with his nakama. Obviously him losing his arm for Luffy vs an East Blue "seaking" seems weird after we got to know more and more about his background and position in the world but back then it was to emphasize Luffy's motivation to become a pirate like Shanks. how dare you insinuate oda is wrong after you defended him every time someone mention he was wrong. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
He didn't say that Oda is wrong. He merely said that it is possible that Oda, at the time, hadn't yet decided the full extent of Shanks character. Since it is a well established fact that Oda does indeed regret chopping off Shanks arm, i find it to be quite possible that Shanks character wasen't fully developed at the time.
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^romanian?
am i doing this right?
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On January 18 2014 00:40 Incognoto wrote:
^romanian?
am i doing this right?
Explain yourself
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On January 17 2014 17:39 sc2holar wrote:Oda has come forth and explained that shanks losing his arm is his biggest regret of the series; but there is an explanation. In the early drafts of volume 1, shanks was not concieved and it was actually garp who lost his arm and gave luffy his strawhat. When garp was swapped for shanks and Oda grudingly left the arm-sacrifisr in there because the sacrifise had recived tons of critical acclaim from various editors for its dramatic impact wich was though to grant the debut of the series a powerful sentimental startoff wich would attract more readers, something oda needed for the series to be picked up by shounen jump. So he caved in and ironicly made a sacrifise himself by making shanks give up hhis arm. You could indeed say he made a bet on the next era  Look up romance dawn v. 2 on one piece wikia
I still haven't seen a source for this. It seems like something fans have made exaggerated from "maybe Oda didn't intend for Shanks to be that strong early on" to "Oda actually said he made a mistake." The Romance Dawn version 2 features Garp to keep Shanks a surprise, but it doesn't change anything about why would Shanks lose an arm to a weak sea king.
Romanian is an inside TL joke where people are called such when they don't get sarcasm.
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On January 18 2014 00:40 Incognoto wrote:
^romanian?
am i doing this right?
I think you didn't read who post the previous post. It's rei, AKA the guy who says Oda is wrong every 10 pages.
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On January 18 2014 03:38 Faust852 wrote:I think you didn't read who post the previous post. It's rei, AKA the guy who says Oda is wrong every 10 pages.
i was doing it wrong q_q
sorry i thought rei's post was friendly sarcasm. i'm romanian. some things never change
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EPT
