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On February 27 2021 17:35 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2021 16:57 PVJ wrote:
Arent you belittling Robin & Brook when you suppose they will be in 'danger' more than him just because they will have to take a fight they willingly go to help while - as you can see and read it - they are totally aware of the trap and are entirely fine in making this decision? Do you think they were trying to avoid danger and would have succeeded doing so on this island of war? Do you think they can't decide for themselves or do you think whatever they say in their dialogue can't be taken at face value? My answer after reading this chapter is 'no' to all but I might be not entirely neutral, Brook and Robin are my favourite duo, yohohoho! Loyal one piece fans will always protect one piece it seems. Sanji is a joke character now and its painful to even see him like this. Loved the dude pre time skip and his introduction at baratie but its becoming apparent that oda is becoming worse at managing millions of characters and convoluted plotlines. Like i said before, we’re in yonko territory, facing two yonkos at same time. We kept hearing how dangerous grandline was when luffy was just a no name pirate. We kept hearing how everyone gets slapped and rekt in new world because of the yonkos. Yet here we are and not a slightest danger once again. The crew holding on to their outdated shit tier perspective. Sanji still not evolving and not undergoing a complex character development which is needed for the story to be more rich and interesting. Nothing has changed. Sanji will face big mom and see luffy die and won’t even lift a finger. Oh wait luffy can’t die! Even if he faces 4 yonkos he will survive cuz it dont matter. There is no danger! Like Oda seriously? Who gives a shit about robin, nami, and other shit tier characters that are just there to fill needed plot line? You introduced so many characters, focusing soley on non strawhats ever since time skip and then acting like we WANT these scenes to show up again. Majority of one piece viewers no longer give a shit about other strawhats except luffy and zoro. The story is generating interest only when big players show up cuz oda continues to do jack shit to characters like sanji. Everyone else is boring af except big players now.
Honestly my problem is that I don't give a shit about all the characters but the strawhats. Like Killer was such a minor character that I totally forgot he existed and I have almost zero attachment to any of the scabbards or Momosuke. Which is kinda baffling considering that they have like half of the screentime of the arc.
The only Wano characters I somewhat care about are the dead afro guy, the yakuza boss and a little about animal girl. I don't have a lot of attachment to Law and I can't be bothered to remember the other supernova's name.
There are a bunch of other problems, namely that the two weak SHs don't have any role to play, that Kaido is the final boss but not really the antagonist of the arc and that Zoan fruits are almost collectively extremely boring, but I still care very much about the SHs and am pretty happy that Franky, Brook and Robin get into the action.
On a side note Kaido's crew is much better than the Wano cast, Queen and Yamato are very entertaining characters and while Kaido's apparently too dumb to hit anything while in dragon form the form itself is the only Zoan so far that is pretty cool and comes with special abilities.
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Sanji winning matters more because hes part of the Straw Hat's Big Three, noone cares if Robin or Brook wins (though Im very hyped to see Robin get some combat spotlight time, tbh
If he wasn't one of the Big Three then we probably wouldnt be worried about his ass whoopin's, unfortunately he was burdened with power and now must prove to us why
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When Big Mom eventually becomes the Strawhat's ally due to Sanji baking her that Cake, I wonder if people will still not give him credit when its due?
On February 27 2021 17:35 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2021 16:57 PVJ wrote:
Arent you belittling Robin & Brook when you suppose they will be in 'danger' more than him just because they will have to take a fight they willingly go to help while - as you can see and read it - they are totally aware of the trap and are entirely fine in making this decision? Do you think they were trying to avoid danger and would have succeeded doing so on this island of war? Do you think they can't decide for themselves or do you think whatever they say in their dialogue can't be taken at face value? My answer after reading this chapter is 'no' to all but I might be not entirely neutral, Brook and Robin are my favourite duo, yohohoho! Loyal one piece fans will always protect one piece it seems. Sanji is a joke character now and its painful to even see him like this. Loved the dude pre time skip and his introduction at baratie but its becoming apparent that oda is becoming worse at managing millions of characters and convoluted plotlines. Like i said before, we’re in yonko territory, facing two yonkos at same time. We kept hearing how dangerous grandline was when luffy was just a no name pirate. We kept hearing how everyone gets slapped and rekt in new world because of the yonkos. Yet here we are and not a slightest danger once again. The crew holding on to their outdated shit tier perspective. Sanji still not evolving and not undergoing a complex character development which is needed for the story to be more rich and interesting. Nothing has changed. Sanji will face big mom and see luffy die and won’t even lift a finger. Oh wait luffy can’t die! Even if he faces 4 yonkos he will survive cuz it dont matter. There is no danger! Like Oda seriously? Who gives a shit about robin, nami, and other shit tier characters that are just there to fill needed plot line? You introduced so many characters, focusing soley on non strawhats ever since time skip and then acting like we WANT these scenes to show up again. Majority of one piece viewers no longer give a shit about other strawhats except luffy and zoro. The story is generating interest only when big players show up cuz oda continues to do jack shit to characters like sanji. Everyone else is boring af except big players now.
It might be time for you to just move on from One Piece.
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Sanji's schtick of not hitting women is rather tiresome. I can't even remember why he has this rule in a world where there are plenty of women which can casually kill thousands of men without receiving a scratch in return. Something about a promise to his mother I think. It's rather ridiculous when it gets to the point where he is putting his crew, the people who are supposedly the most important to him, in danger. Robin wouldn't die as a consequence of Sanji's selfishness as One Piece is not that kind of manga, but it is so contrived that circumstance always resolves itself in a way that it is fine that he acts this way.
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IIRC it comes from his chef boss, who had a similar "manly" spirit.
I agree though that it's been done to death. I hope he beats Jack in return.
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On March 01 2021 08:53 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Sanji's schtick of not hitting women is rather tiresome. I can't even remember why he has this rule in a world where there are plenty of women which can casually kill thousands of men without receiving a scratch in return. Something about a promise to his mother I think. It's rather ridiculous when it gets to the point where he is putting his crew, the people who are supposedly the most important to him, in danger. Robin wouldn't die as a consequence of Sanji's selfishness as One Piece is not that kind of manga, but it is so contrived that circumstance always resolves itself in a way that it is fine that he acts this way.
yeah i agree that oda is taking this a bit too far. id be happy to see sanji show reluctance but eventually acknowledge the severity of the situation and break his rule, but at the moment its just stupid how hed willingly get beat for his own code.
i kind of understand that oda has to differentiate sanji's views on fighting women with zoro, as zoro is kind of like the above, but it just makes the character seem so stupid
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I think the general weakness is fine, Zorro can't find the right direction to save his life and Luffy often doesn't take things seriously and isn't the brightest. The top3 of the SHs have critical weaknesses and that's imo a good thing.
I just feel like it's overused in Sanji's case and before it was a reason to portray Sanji as the beaten up underdog in his follow up fight, like against the cp9. But Sanji didn't really have any successful follow up fights recently.
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You know what would have worked perfectly? If instead of the power ranger costume Sanji's power up was him going full Okama like this cover page:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/TjIdakE.png)
Then he could have sidestepped his weakness by saying "As a man I could never hit a lady... but just for this moment I'm no longer a man!" Sanji's would put aside his pride and moral hangups to protect his crew, just like Zoro did when he bowed to Mihawk for training. It would be fantastic character development.
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As long as Sanji gets a good showing in a fight this arc its fine.
I am more happy that Robin is looking like she will finally have a proper fight. Its been so long.
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tbh I do wish we'd see some Newkama stuff from Sanji
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On March 01 2021 09:26 Archeon wrote:
IIRC it comes from his chef boss, who had a similar "manly" spirit.
I agree though that it's been done to death. I hope he beats Jack in return. Really? I don't recalled that the chef ever had such a belief. That just makes Sanji's code worse. His code just comes out of nowhere then.
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On March 03 2021 05:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2021 09:26 Archeon wrote:
IIRC it comes from his chef boss, who had a similar "manly" spirit.
I agree though that it's been done to death. I hope he beats Jack in return. Really? I don't recalled that the chef ever had such a belief. That just makes Sanji's code worse. His code just comes out of nowhere then.
Its from Zeff, yes. He literally (in the actual literal sense) beat, "never hit a woman" into Sanji. Just like why his hands are for cooking only, not fighting
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Chivalry and not hitting women is a quaint concept in the One Piece world, where there are zero barriers for women to be deadlier than men. Also pirate women are way more abundant than in the real pirate ages of ours, hence it makes sense that Sanji would be constantly in trouble.
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@Women vs men: With the exception of BM almost all major threats are men and the few women usually play in the bottom half of the crew high tier crew rankings. Like most of the women get defeated by Nami and occasionally Usopp, which tells a lot. Considering that physical prowess plays a larger role than weapons in One Piece I'd argue that women are more dangerous in our world than in One Piece in comparison.
Then again the equivalent to Sanji's code is basically don't shoot an armed woman in a warzone, so it's easy to see how nonsensical that is.
That being said the problem with Sanji is less that he won't hit women and more that he's too dumb to run away instead of towards them apparently. As mentioned my problem is that Sanji somehow is always the guy who runs into one of the few female enemies, while every other crewmember wouldn't have a problem dealing with them. It's simply getting a bit old.
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On March 03 2021 08:47 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 05:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 01 2021 09:26 Archeon wrote:
IIRC it comes from his chef boss, who had a similar "manly" spirit.
I agree though that it's been done to death. I hope he beats Jack in return. Really? I don't recalled that the chef ever had such a belief. That just makes Sanji's code worse. His code just comes out of nowhere then. Its from Zeff, yes. He literally (in the actual literal sense) beat, "never hit a woman" into Sanji. Just like why his hands are for cooking only, not fighting I honestly don't recall any of this. Ironic that apparently Zeff's has problems hitting women, but not defenceless children. Pretty sure I recall Zeff punching Sanji at one point too.
Honestly speaking, being beaten is the worse reason for any set of beliefs, especially when it is an inconsistent set of beliefs. He has utterly no problem with hitting the elderly, or those weaker than he is, or of other people hitting women. The really odd thing is that nobody else seems to particularily care either.
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He's a shonen character. He's a superhero chef that fights only with kicks and has hang ups about women, particularly not fighting them. Its like focusing on Luffy and Goku's huge appetites, Big Mom's hunger pangs, or Hinata's fainting around Naruto. Also, part of it is comedy, and possibly trolling (at this point) people who get upset by it. Oda seems to genuinely enjoy the part where Sanji is ridiculously over the top and wants to write the situations where a woman gets to save him as a "Damsel in Distress" while saving such a damsel is part of Sanji's ethos. He lives for the day that its Nami or Robin stuck in a spider web and he saves them!
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On March 04 2021 05:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 08:47 cLutZ wrote:On March 03 2021 05:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 01 2021 09:26 Archeon wrote:
IIRC it comes from his chef boss, who had a similar "manly" spirit.
I agree though that it's been done to death. I hope he beats Jack in return. Really? I don't recalled that the chef ever had such a belief. That just makes Sanji's code worse. His code just comes out of nowhere then. Its from Zeff, yes. He literally (in the actual literal sense) beat, "never hit a woman" into Sanji. Just like why his hands are for cooking only, not fighting I honestly don't recall any of this. Ironic that apparently Zeff's has problems hitting women, but not defenceless children. Pretty sure I recall Zeff punching Sanji at one point too. Honestly speaking, being beaten is the worse reason for any set of beliefs, especially when it is an inconsistent set of beliefs. He has utterly no problem with hitting the elderly, or those weaker than he is, or of other people hitting women. The really odd thing is that nobody else seems to particularily care either.
in asia we call that disciplining (obviously in real life we dont literally beat the shit out of them like zeff but its a manga)
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On March 04 2021 05:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 08:47 cLutZ wrote:On March 03 2021 05:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 01 2021 09:26 Archeon wrote:
IIRC it comes from his chef boss, who had a similar "manly" spirit.
I agree though that it's been done to death. I hope he beats Jack in return. Really? I don't recalled that the chef ever had such a belief. That just makes Sanji's code worse. His code just comes out of nowhere then. Its from Zeff, yes. He literally (in the actual literal sense) beat, "never hit a woman" into Sanji. Just like why his hands are for cooking only, not fighting I honestly don't recall any of this. Ironic that apparently Zeff's has problems hitting women, but not defenceless children. Pretty sure I recall Zeff punching Sanji at one point too. Honestly speaking, being beaten is the worse reason for any set of beliefs, especially when it is an inconsistent set of beliefs. He has utterly no problem with hitting the elderly, or those weaker than he is, or of other people hitting women. The really odd thing is that nobody else seems to particularily care either.
Chapter 842:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/zDvpWoi.png)
Not sure why Zeff thinks this way since he's been to the grand line and has seen powerful women with his own eyes. Did he never hear about Big Mom, Smoothie, Boa Hancock, or Catarina Devon? Granted, they aren't as common as men in pirate crews, but that doesn't mean you should never fight back when they're attacking you. You know this kinda makes me think that the reason Zeff never made it very far is because he encountered an enemy pirate crew with women in it and they just annihilated his crew because he never fought back.
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On March 04 2021 11:56 Hyperbola wrote:
Not sure why Zeff thinks this way since he's been to the grand line and has seen powerful women with his own eyes. Did he never hear about Big Mom, Smoothie, Boa Hancock, or Catarina Devon? Granted, they aren't as common as men in pirate crews, but that doesn't mean you should never fight back when they're attacking you. You know this kinda makes me think that the reason Zeff never made it very far is because he encountered an enemy pirate crew with women in it and they just annihilated his crew because he never fought back.
Not sure why you think this. "Red Leg" Zeff and his crew spent a year in the Grand Line before returning to East Blue intact. His travels were legendary enough in the East Blue that Krieg wanted to steal his captains log (recall how absolutely devastated Krieg's crew was after a few days). The most likely explanation is that he and the Cooks Pirates made it to Sabody after a year in Paradise before deciding against going to the New World.
Given that the East Blue is the weakest blue, its fairly likely that, aside whatever remnants of Roger's crew that returned to East Blue (and if the Straw Hats ever return), he is most powerful living non-Marine from East Blue (with Garp being easily #1, and likely whoever replaced Smoker being #2).
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On March 04 2021 05:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2021 08:47 cLutZ wrote:On March 03 2021 05:20 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 01 2021 09:26 Archeon wrote:
IIRC it comes from his chef boss, who had a similar "manly" spirit.
I agree though that it's been done to death. I hope he beats Jack in return. Really? I don't recalled that the chef ever had such a belief. That just makes Sanji's code worse. His code just comes out of nowhere then. Its from Zeff, yes. He literally (in the actual literal sense) beat, "never hit a woman" into Sanji. Just like why his hands are for cooking only, not fighting I honestly don't recall any of this. Ironic that apparently Zeff's has problems hitting women, but not defenceless children. Pretty sure I recall Zeff punching Sanji at one point too. Honestly speaking, being beaten is the worse reason for any set of beliefs, especially when it is an inconsistent set of beliefs. He has utterly no problem with hitting the elderly, or those weaker than he is, or of other people hitting women. The really odd thing is that nobody else seems to particularily care either.
Sanji respects Zeff because Zeff cut off his own leg to make sure that Sanji wouldnt starve to death when they were trapped on that island together. Dude was sacrificing himself to save Sanji, its more than reasonable for Sanji to look at Zeff and look up to him, including adopting his beliefs. Zeff beating Sanji's ass is tangential to why Sanji believes in treating women as he does, the important part is that Zeff saved his life and became his father figure.
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EPT
