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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18572 Posts
On July 23 2016 13:37 BlackMagister wrote: No, it just proves that Luffy is weaker than DD since he needed a lot of help to win. Luffy beat DD, how does that make him weaker? His allies and ability to inspire others to help him are part of his strength. | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On July 23 2016 15:37 sharkie wrote: Luffy beat DD, how does that make him weaker? His allies and ability to inspire others to help him are part of his strength. In a one on one fight with nobody around to help he would have gotten killed because he wouldn't have had help recovering after Gear 4 wore off. So on his own he is weaker than DD. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18572 Posts
On July 23 2016 17:24 Elentos wrote: In a one on one fight with nobody around to help he would have gotten killed because he wouldn't have had help recovering after Gear 4 wore off. So on his own he is weaker than DD. But Luffy is not alone. So whats your point? | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
that he couldn't beat DD on his own and friendship, in fact, is not a super power | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
thats pretty much the entire reason why he is later going to be able to take on the WG. hes not gonna rock up with the thousand sunny and be like "yo marine fags lets settle this shit with a series of 1v1s. i fight akainu, zoro fights fuji and sanji fights kizaru. everyone else just grab your popcorn and watch pls" | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On July 23 2016 09:48 Forikorder wrote: shrinking could work too, its also possible he could burn off the strings with his fire kicks IMO Sanji could never break the strings since Fujitora, Zoro, couldn't do it | ||
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Rehio
United States1718 Posts
On July 23 2016 18:28 Ej_ wrote: that he couldn't beat DD on his own and friendship, in fact, is not a super power Why are Luffy's relationships and the advantage that gives him not considered a part of his "strength?" Why arbitrarily decide that two characters can only be compared in a 1v1 fight? It's like saying "1 on 1 Sanji is stronger than Zoro without his swords." | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On July 24 2016 07:40 Rehio wrote: Why are Luffy's relationships and the advantage that gives him not considered a part of his "strength?" Why arbitrarily decide that two characters can only be compared in a 1v1 fight? It's like saying "1 on 1 Sanji is stronger than Zoro without his swords." You're comparing an integral part of one's fighting style to the interference of other people that can't always be called upon, you know. Why would anyone even try to argue that Luffy himself isn't weaker than DD? That's not something bad, it leaves him room for growth. And it also means Oda still has room for villains that aren't quite as strong as DD in a direct fight but still a challenge for Luffy. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
But another way to look at it is look what all Luffy had to go through to even get to Doflamingo. Doflamingo was just chilling on top of his palace through virtually the whole climax until Luffy and Law made it to him. So an argument could be made that Luffy wasn't 100% when he got to Doflamingo, and perhaps things could have gone easier if it truly was a 1v1 without interference, since both characters received plentiful outside help during and prior to their fight. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On July 24 2016 09:03 Sentenal wrote: As far as Luffy vs Doflamingo goes, I don't think who is stronger 1v1 is really clear. Once Luffy finally got to Doflamingo and their proper fight started, Doflamingo would have surely won if Luffy hadn't had help. But another way to look at it is look what all Luffy had to go through to even get to Doflamingo. Doflamingo was just chilling on top of his palace through virtually the whole climax until Luffy and Law made it to him. So an argument could be made that Luffy wasn't 100% when he got to Doflamingo, and perhaps things could have gone easier if it truly was a 1v1 without interference, since both characters received plentiful outside help during and prior to their fight. really no argument there, Luffy got a huge hit on him thanks to law and then law tore apart his organs and DD took it all like a champ, not to mention he endured a long one sided beating from Gear 4 i dont think anyone can argue that Luffy was beaten up more then DD was when there 1v1 started, at least not so much more that it could be considered a handicap plus DD was maintaining the birdcage, controlling citizens and fighting with his string clone just as much as Luffy was expending effort getting to him | ||
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SkrollK
France580 Posts
On July 23 2016 17:24 Elentos wrote: In a one on one fight with nobody around to help he would have gotten killed because he wouldn't have had help recovering after Gear 4 wore off. So on his own he is weaker than DD. Ok, so by your logic, Sugar is stronger than Luffy. Cause in a 1v1, she would have tricked him, touched him, turn him into a toy and that's it. | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On July 24 2016 19:12 SkrollK wrote: Ok, so by your logic, Sugar is stronger than Luffy. Cause in a 1v1, she would have tricked him, touched him, turn him into a toy and that's it. You can't possibly be serious. | ||
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SkrollK
France580 Posts
I think it might be your logic that isnt really serious. You're basically saying that strength have to be mesured in 1on1 without any exterior alements, purely based on who wins. I'm a just following your logic. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
There is nothing in Elentos's logic to suggest such a sequence of events. There is nothing in the story Oda has written to suggest such a sequence of events. So, there is no logic to which SkrollK is following at all. | ||
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SkrollK
France580 Posts
On July 24 2016 21:54 Dangermousecatdog wrote: You aren't following logic at all in your imaginary Sugar v Luffy fight. It's just a random sequence of events where Sugar defeats Luffy. There is nothing in Elentos's logic to suggest such a sequence of events. There is nothing in the story Oda has written to suggest such a sequence of events. So, there is no logic to which SkrollK is following at all. Did you even read the pages before ? Elentos said that the only way to mesure the strength of any character in OP was straight 11 without any disturbance by anyone, and focusing only on combat skill, with such things as Conqueror's Haki not even being part of the equation (it's not a combat skill apparently). So, by his logic, since it has been pointed out by Oda (http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/758/13), using the conditions and hypothesis that Elentos stated before to mesure the strength of characters in OP, Sugar would have pretty high odds to be able to touch Luffy at least once, therefore turning him into a toy, therefore winning the duel, therefore being stronger than Luffy. I fail to see what you can't understand... | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On July 24 2016 22:10 SkrollK wrote: Did you even read the pages before ? Elentos said that the only way to mesure the strength of any character in OP was straight 11 without any disturbance by anyone, and focusing only on combat skill, with such things as Conqueror's Haki not even being part of the equation (it's not a combat skill apparently). I didn't say that but whatever. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
You also trivialize the fights of the series by not including context and including instant gib powers like Perona, Hancock and Sugar. If there was a page where Perona used her DF on Mihawk than obviously Ussop>Perona>Mihawk>Zoro. Which nobody thinks and you don't need to say. The Luffy vs DD fight is used to estimate Luffy's fighting strength, there is disagreement on if Luffy actually is weaker than DD, but it is clear Luffy needed to borrow the strength of others to win. Anyways point is Sanji is still a ways off in strength, at least in display strength, from the rest when he needed help just to live vs DD. Which is not the same as Luffy needing help to defeat a serious and enraged DD. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2547 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18572 Posts
On July 25 2016 04:06 Hyperbola wrote: Actually, no, One Piece is strictly about 1v1 fights. Every arc is just a bunch of filler build up to the fight. If Oda just cut out everything from Dressrosa except for the luffy vs doffy fight then it would be 10x better. That, and add strict power levels for every character, remove all miscellaneous powers except for Haki and just have every character fight hand to hand. Perfect manga right there. lol no, OP is great not only because of its fights but especially because of all the stuff around the fights... | ||
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