|
This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here.
If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers.
If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. |
On July 22 2016 15:38 herMan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2016 05:00 Sentenal wrote:
Its just the same "Pirate A" meme squad guys who have been shitposting about that for the last 4 years. Pirate A? I have not heard of this, what are you referring to? And guys, the arc setup is still ongoing so you should know that there are no decisive fights to be fought yet.
There is a certain segment of people in this thread who decided to call Sanji "Pirate A" during Dressrosa, as a joke implying he is both unimportant and weak. I don't think they have actually called him that since the unimportant part became untrue. But the anti-Sanji stuff has been going on for years, and normally by the same people.
|
On July 22 2016 16:38 herMan wrote:
Now that I think of it, did we ever get an explanation on how Rayleigh was able to jimmy the slave collar off Caimie's neck without killing her?
he ripped it off and threw it away so fast it exploded a safe distance away, the bulb was the exploding part not the actual collar
|
|
|
Not sure who you're referring to, but I don't think Sanji is unimportant just that he has been lackluster in his performance as a monster trio member. Of course Sanji has always been weaker than Luffy and Zoro, but he always felt comparable in strength pre-time skip. Post time skip he feels a tier below trading unfavorably with Vergo and getting destroyed by DD who wasn't even serious yet. Luffy would have lost to DD without help and Zoro may have lost 1v1 vs DD too, but they would at least be able to hold him off. Post time skip Sanji has defeated how many named enemies? Px-7, Kracken, Wadatsumi, Sheep-head and Yonji? Luffy and Zoro would have been consistent with their pre-time skip performance defeating the leader and second in command respectively, Sanji has not. One Piece is about more than just fights, but being considered part of the Monster Trio is specifically about fighting.
|
On July 23 2016 00:19 BlackMagister wrote:
Not sure who you're referring to, but I don't think Sanji is unimportant just that he has been lackluster in his performance as a monster trio member. Of course Sanji has always been weaker than Luffy and Zoro, but he always felt comparable in strength pre-time skip. Post time skip he feels a tier below trading unfavorably with Vergo and getting destroyed by DD who wasn't even serious yet. Luffy would have lost to DD without help and Zoro may have lost 1v1 vs DD too, but they would at least be able to hold him off. Post time skip Sanji has defeated how many named enemies? Px-7, Kracken, Wadatsumi, Sheep-head and Yonji? Luffy and Zoro would have been consistent with their pre-time skip performance defeating the leader and second in command respectively, Sanji has not. One Piece is about more than just fights, but being considered part of the Monster Trio is specifically about fighting.
Sanji has basically been used to show how badass other people are...
|
On July 23 2016 00:19 BlackMagister wrote:
Not sure who you're referring to, but I don't think Sanji is unimportant just that he has been lackluster in his performance as a monster trio member. Of course Sanji has always been weaker than Luffy and Zoro, but he always felt comparable in strength pre-time skip. Post time skip he feels a tier below trading unfavorably with Vergo and getting destroyed by DD who wasn't even serious yet. Luffy would have lost to DD without help and Zoro may have lost 1v1 vs DD too, but they would at least be able to hold him off. Post time skip Sanji has defeated how many named enemies? Px-7, Kracken, Wadatsumi, Sheep-head and Yonji? Luffy and Zoro would have been consistent with their pre-time skip performance defeating the leader and second in command respectively, Sanji has not. One Piece is about more than just fights, but being considered part of the Monster Trio is specifically about fighting.
You know the bolded part didn't actually happen, right? He was caught in his strings, but that doesn't mean "destroyed". Same shit happened to Jozu at Marineford, and if hes a weakling too, I dunno what to say. And as for defeated named enemies, its hardly a fair comparison, given Sanji wasn't present for the climax of Dressrosa, and the guy did take on Big Mom's Pirate Ship by himself.
|
That does look pretty sweet. 
|
I don't get the people who think Sanji is somehow weak. Vergo was beating Smoker like nothing and in the end it took both Law and Smoker to defeat him. Doflamingo had to be tag teamed by Law and Luffy before going down. Instead of saying Sanji's trash, maybe it's time to acknowledge that the Straw Hats are taking on some pretty huge opponents. Besides, saying Sanji was gonna be manhandled by Vergo based on that small skirmish is silly as there's been a bunch of fights where the victor starts out with a disadvantage, who knows what could have happened if the fight had gone on.
|
On July 23 2016 01:14 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2016 00:19 BlackMagister wrote:
Not sure who you're referring to, but I don't think Sanji is unimportant just that he has been lackluster in his performance as a monster trio member. Of course Sanji has always been weaker than Luffy and Zoro, but he always felt comparable in strength pre-time skip. Post time skip he feels a tier below trading unfavorably with Vergo and getting destroyed by DD who wasn't even serious yet. Luffy would have lost to DD without help and Zoro may have lost 1v1 vs DD too, but they would at least be able to hold him off. Post time skip Sanji has defeated how many named enemies? Px-7, Kracken, Wadatsumi, Sheep-head and Yonji? Luffy and Zoro would have been consistent with their pre-time skip performance defeating the leader and second in command respectively, Sanji has not. One Piece is about more than just fights, but being considered part of the Monster Trio is specifically about fighting. You know the bolded part didn't actually happen, right? He was caught in his strings, but that doesn't mean "destroyed". Same shit happened to Jozu at Marineford, and if hes a weakling too, I dunno what to say. And as for defeated named enemies, its hardly a fair comparison, given Sanji wasn't present for the climax of Dressrosa, and the guy did take on Big Mom's Pirate Ship by himself.
To be more accurate he was injured by DD and was about to about to get hit by a lethal blow, but was saved by Law. Sanji should have put up a better fight than Jozu did because he has even more mobility than DD and specializes in observation haki. All of the Straw hats have suffered some cheap losses post time skip to Hordy, Yeti bros and Caesar for example, but Sanji's fights against Vergo and DD felt more like he was being walled than tricked. I want to see Sanji be cool and have high hopes for him this arc even though it's a rescue Sanji arc.
|
On July 23 2016 02:13 herMan wrote:
I don't get the people who think Sanji is somehow weak. Vergo was beating Smoker like nothing and in the end it took both Law and Smoker to defeat him. Doflamingo had to be tag teamed by Law and Luffy before going down. Instead of saying Sanji's trash, maybe it's time to acknowledge that the Straw Hats are taking on some pretty huge opponents. Besides, saying Sanji was gonna be manhandled by Vergo based on that small skirmish is silly as there's been a bunch of fights where the victor starts out with a disadvantage, who knows what could have happened if the fight had gone on.
Law, weakened from having his heart crushed and being beaten down while unable to fight back utterly destroyed Vergo once he got his heart back, he only needed Smoker to get his heart back, not to help in the fight. So not being able to beat Vergo is kinda shit for Sanji.
Sanji had Jimbei's help to beat Wadatsumi, really the only person Sanji has beaten in a 1v1 fight post time skip is Yonji and that was off panel.
Sanji is not weak, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying its shit that he hasn't done Anything even remotely impressive in a fight in a long ass time. He is beyond overdue for an epic fight and to kick some serious ass. If he is to be considered a part of the Monster Trio he can't just keep losing or getting draws.
|
On July 23 2016 02:31 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2016 02:13 herMan wrote:
I don't get the people who think Sanji is somehow weak. Vergo was beating Smoker like nothing and in the end it took both Law and Smoker to defeat him. Doflamingo had to be tag teamed by Law and Luffy before going down. Instead of saying Sanji's trash, maybe it's time to acknowledge that the Straw Hats are taking on some pretty huge opponents. Besides, saying Sanji was gonna be manhandled by Vergo based on that small skirmish is silly as there's been a bunch of fights where the victor starts out with a disadvantage, who knows what could have happened if the fight had gone on.
Law, weakened from having his heart crushed and being beaten down while unable to fight back utterly destroyed Vergo once he got his heart back, he only needed Smoker to get his heart back, not to help in the fight. So not being able to beat Vergo is kinda shit for Sanji. Sanji had Jimbei's help to beat Wadatsumi, really the only person Sanji has beaten in a 1v1 fight post time skip is Yonji and that was off panel. Sanji is not weak, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying its shit that he hasn't done Anything even remotely impressive in a fight in a long ass time. He is beyond overdue for an epic fight and to kick some serious ass. If he is to be considered a part of the Monster Trio he can't just keep losing or getting draws.
Vergo was an idiot and took Laws big attack head on, Sanji fought even with him but neither was really in a position to commit since the entire area literally had poison gas being pumped into it
neither of them got serious
|
On July 23 2016 02:22 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2016 01:14 Sentenal wrote:On July 23 2016 00:19 BlackMagister wrote:
Not sure who you're referring to, but I don't think Sanji is unimportant just that he has been lackluster in his performance as a monster trio member. Of course Sanji has always been weaker than Luffy and Zoro, but he always felt comparable in strength pre-time skip. Post time skip he feels a tier below trading unfavorably with Vergo and getting destroyed by DD who wasn't even serious yet. Luffy would have lost to DD without help and Zoro may have lost 1v1 vs DD too, but they would at least be able to hold him off. Post time skip Sanji has defeated how many named enemies? Px-7, Kracken, Wadatsumi, Sheep-head and Yonji? Luffy and Zoro would have been consistent with their pre-time skip performance defeating the leader and second in command respectively, Sanji has not. One Piece is about more than just fights, but being considered part of the Monster Trio is specifically about fighting. You know the bolded part didn't actually happen, right? He was caught in his strings, but that doesn't mean "destroyed". Same shit happened to Jozu at Marineford, and if hes a weakling too, I dunno what to say. And as for defeated named enemies, its hardly a fair comparison, given Sanji wasn't present for the climax of Dressrosa, and the guy did take on Big Mom's Pirate Ship by himself. To be more accurate he was injured by DD and was about to about to get hit by a lethal blow, but was saved by Law. Sanji should have put up a better fight than Jozu did because he has even more mobility than DD and specializes in observation haki. All of the Straw hats have suffered some cheap losses post time skip to Hordy, Yeti bros and Caesar for example, but Sanji's fights against Vergo and DD felt more like he was being walled than tricked. I want to see Sanji be cool and have high hopes for him this arc even though it's a rescue Sanji arc.
I figure its pretty normal for shounen manga for characters to take attacks that look to be lethal, take it, and live/keep fighting.
|
Tragic backstory confirmed, Sanji for strawhat
|
On July 23 2016 03:43 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2016 02:22 BlackMagister wrote:On July 23 2016 01:14 Sentenal wrote:On July 23 2016 00:19 BlackMagister wrote:
Not sure who you're referring to, but I don't think Sanji is unimportant just that he has been lackluster in his performance as a monster trio member. Of course Sanji has always been weaker than Luffy and Zoro, but he always felt comparable in strength pre-time skip. Post time skip he feels a tier below trading unfavorably with Vergo and getting destroyed by DD who wasn't even serious yet. Luffy would have lost to DD without help and Zoro may have lost 1v1 vs DD too, but they would at least be able to hold him off. Post time skip Sanji has defeated how many named enemies? Px-7, Kracken, Wadatsumi, Sheep-head and Yonji? Luffy and Zoro would have been consistent with their pre-time skip performance defeating the leader and second in command respectively, Sanji has not. One Piece is about more than just fights, but being considered part of the Monster Trio is specifically about fighting. You know the bolded part didn't actually happen, right? He was caught in his strings, but that doesn't mean "destroyed". Same shit happened to Jozu at Marineford, and if hes a weakling too, I dunno what to say. And as for defeated named enemies, its hardly a fair comparison, given Sanji wasn't present for the climax of Dressrosa, and the guy did take on Big Mom's Pirate Ship by himself. To be more accurate he was injured by DD and was about to about to get hit by a lethal blow, but was saved by Law. Sanji should have put up a better fight than Jozu did because he has even more mobility than DD and specializes in observation haki. All of the Straw hats have suffered some cheap losses post time skip to Hordy, Yeti bros and Caesar for example, but Sanji's fights against Vergo and DD felt more like he was being walled than tricked. I want to see Sanji be cool and have high hopes for him this arc even though it's a rescue Sanji arc. I figure its pretty normal for shounen manga for characters to take attacks that look to be lethal, take it, and live/keep fighting.
DD chose an over the top execution move where just the wind up for the attack was destroying Dressrosa a mile away because Sanji was trapped. I think the move would have killed Sanji even breaking full body haki like Vergo or Pica if it hit. Sure shounen characters can sometimes take attacks that are supposed to be lethal and survive, but it's easier for them to just be saved at the last second like Sanji was.
To counter the string trap either don't get hit, which I think was Sanji's only chance, or have the strength/expansion of a G4 type move to break the string.
|
On July 23 2016 09:30 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2016 03:43 Sentenal wrote:On July 23 2016 02:22 BlackMagister wrote:On July 23 2016 01:14 Sentenal wrote:On July 23 2016 00:19 BlackMagister wrote:
Not sure who you're referring to, but I don't think Sanji is unimportant just that he has been lackluster in his performance as a monster trio member. Of course Sanji has always been weaker than Luffy and Zoro, but he always felt comparable in strength pre-time skip. Post time skip he feels a tier below trading unfavorably with Vergo and getting destroyed by DD who wasn't even serious yet. Luffy would have lost to DD without help and Zoro may have lost 1v1 vs DD too, but they would at least be able to hold him off. Post time skip Sanji has defeated how many named enemies? Px-7, Kracken, Wadatsumi, Sheep-head and Yonji? Luffy and Zoro would have been consistent with their pre-time skip performance defeating the leader and second in command respectively, Sanji has not. One Piece is about more than just fights, but being considered part of the Monster Trio is specifically about fighting. You know the bolded part didn't actually happen, right? He was caught in his strings, but that doesn't mean "destroyed". Same shit happened to Jozu at Marineford, and if hes a weakling too, I dunno what to say. And as for defeated named enemies, its hardly a fair comparison, given Sanji wasn't present for the climax of Dressrosa, and the guy did take on Big Mom's Pirate Ship by himself. To be more accurate he was injured by DD and was about to about to get hit by a lethal blow, but was saved by Law. Sanji should have put up a better fight than Jozu did because he has even more mobility than DD and specializes in observation haki. All of the Straw hats have suffered some cheap losses post time skip to Hordy, Yeti bros and Caesar for example, but Sanji's fights against Vergo and DD felt more like he was being walled than tricked. I want to see Sanji be cool and have high hopes for him this arc even though it's a rescue Sanji arc. I figure its pretty normal for shounen manga for characters to take attacks that look to be lethal, take it, and live/keep fighting. DD chose an over the top execution move where just the wind up for the attack was destroying Dressrosa a mile away because Sanji was trapped. I think the move would have killed Sanji even breaking full body haki like Vergo or Pica if it hit. Sure shounen characters can sometimes take attacks that are supposed to be lethal and survive, but it's easier for them to just be saved at the last second like Sanji was. To counter the string trap either don't get hit, which I think was Sanji's only chance, or have the strength/expansion of a G4 type move to break the string.
shrinking could work too, its also possible he could burn off the strings with his fire kicks
|
On July 23 2016 09:30 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2016 03:43 Sentenal wrote:On July 23 2016 02:22 BlackMagister wrote:On July 23 2016 01:14 Sentenal wrote:On July 23 2016 00:19 BlackMagister wrote:
Not sure who you're referring to, but I don't think Sanji is unimportant just that he has been lackluster in his performance as a monster trio member. Of course Sanji has always been weaker than Luffy and Zoro, but he always felt comparable in strength pre-time skip. Post time skip he feels a tier below trading unfavorably with Vergo and getting destroyed by DD who wasn't even serious yet. Luffy would have lost to DD without help and Zoro may have lost 1v1 vs DD too, but they would at least be able to hold him off. Post time skip Sanji has defeated how many named enemies? Px-7, Kracken, Wadatsumi, Sheep-head and Yonji? Luffy and Zoro would have been consistent with their pre-time skip performance defeating the leader and second in command respectively, Sanji has not. One Piece is about more than just fights, but being considered part of the Monster Trio is specifically about fighting. You know the bolded part didn't actually happen, right? He was caught in his strings, but that doesn't mean "destroyed". Same shit happened to Jozu at Marineford, and if hes a weakling too, I dunno what to say. And as for defeated named enemies, its hardly a fair comparison, given Sanji wasn't present for the climax of Dressrosa, and the guy did take on Big Mom's Pirate Ship by himself. To be more accurate he was injured by DD and was about to about to get hit by a lethal blow, but was saved by Law. Sanji should have put up a better fight than Jozu did because he has even more mobility than DD and specializes in observation haki. All of the Straw hats have suffered some cheap losses post time skip to Hordy, Yeti bros and Caesar for example, but Sanji's fights against Vergo and DD felt more like he was being walled than tricked. I want to see Sanji be cool and have high hopes for him this arc even though it's a rescue Sanji arc. I figure its pretty normal for shounen manga for characters to take attacks that look to be lethal, take it, and live/keep fighting. DD chose an over the top execution move where just the wind up for the attack was destroying Dressrosa a mile away because Sanji was trapped. I think the move would have killed Sanji even breaking full body haki like Vergo or Pica if it hit. Sure shounen characters can sometimes take attacks that are supposed to be lethal and survive, but it's easier for them to just be saved at the last second like Sanji was. To counter the string trap either don't get hit, which I think was Sanji's only chance, or have the strength/expansion of a G4 type move to break the string.
I feel like it comes down to people making assumptions on both sides. Its just the assumptions being made from your point of view are all against Sanji. Shounen manga are often characterized by its heroes unexpectedly turning the tables, or overcoming adversity. Your assumptions would have neither of those common shounen traits happen, and instead would have the hero lose, and possibly die.
|
I know about that troope, but what could Sanji have used to turn that situation around? I doubt he could use Diamble to burn the string (the string is practically unbreakable) or have enough force with his kicks while constrained to break free. Oda could write in that he has a new move from his time skip training, but instead Oda made Sanji get saved. Maybe Sanji is saving this move for the Year of Sanji arc, but without a new move Sanji does seem done for.
The hero being saved at the last minute by an ally is also a troope, maybe not the most common one in One Piece, but it does happen. The whole Sabaody arc was about "Just in time" saves. Zoro was not about to overcome Kizaru he was going to die if he wasn't saved by Rayleigh as the rest of the Straw hats were powerless vs Kizaru. Then the entire crew was saved by Kuma in a situation which again they weren't going to overcome. Nobody is ever alone, power of friendship and all that. Sometimes the hero needs help.
|
On July 23 2016 12:52 BlackMagister wrote:
I know about that troope, but what could Sanji have used to turn that situation around? I doubt he could use Diamble to burn the string (the string is practically unbreakable) or have enough force with his kicks while constrained to break free. Oda could write in that he has a new move from his time skip training, but instead Oda made Sanji get saved. Maybe Sanji is saving this move for the Year of Sanji arc, but without a new move Sanji does seem done for.
The hero being saved at the last minute by an ally is also a troope, maybe not the most common one in One Piece, but it does happen. The whole Sabaody arc was about "Just in time" saves. Zoro was not about to overcome Kizaru he was going to die if he wasn't saved by Rayleigh as the rest of the Straw hats were powerless vs Kizaru. Then the entire crew was saved by Kuma in a situation which again they weren't going to overcome. Nobody is ever alone, power of friendship and all that. Sometimes the hero needs help.
Luffy got saved, is he demoted from monster trio as well?
|
No, it just proves that Luffy is weaker than DD since he needed a lot of help to win.
|
sanji pretty much won that fight w/o fighting. the best kind of winning
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
