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On August 04 2015 01:52 kanchome wrote:
What a lot of readers are interpreting wrong is putting their views of what pirate king (with the logical output being the strongest) on luffy's view when it is simply freedom. We already saw the upper limits to luffy's strength and it isn't anywhere near Top level when luffy beat DF the same way he beat every other big name that should have logically crushed him (plot). He isn't going to be the strongest when he becomes PK but he will have the strongest nakama's by the end that crush the WG.
If Onepiece was going to revolve around luffy ending up being the strongest, Zorro would have been a much better candidate as the protaganist because that's exactly what his motive is.
Very good point, but he can't be losing to a Yonkou and still go for being the Pirate King. So by Shounen logic, he'll still be a top contender strongest person. This being, the Captain/Leader will beat the Captain/Leader like a Shounen manga should be.
So in the end, yes very true he doesn't have to be the absolute strongest.
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In shabody arc, Reileigh says that Roger simply deliver himself to the marines since he was about to die anyway from his illness.
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On August 04 2015 07:30 Sableyeah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2015 01:52 kanchome wrote:
What a lot of readers are interpreting wrong is putting their views of what pirate king (with the logical output being the strongest) on luffy's view when it is simply freedom. We already saw the upper limits to luffy's strength and it isn't anywhere near Top level when luffy beat DF the same way he beat every other big name that should have logically crushed him (plot). He isn't going to be the strongest when he becomes PK but he will have the strongest nakama's by the end that crush the WG.
If Onepiece was going to revolve around luffy ending up being the strongest, Zorro would have been a much better candidate as the protaganist because that's exactly what his motive is. Very good point, but he can't be losing to a Yonkou and still go for being the Pirate King. So by Shounen logic, he'll still be a top contender strongest person. This being, the Captain/Leader will beat the Captain/Leader like a Shounen manga should be. So in the end, yes very true he doesn't have to be the absolute strongest.
One piece is of high quality than most shonen.
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Wasnt Kaidou supposed to look like this ?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cuR2KFo.jpg)
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Ah, thanks for the explanation guys
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Don't forget that Silvers was old and rusty and he handled an admiral ezpz
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On August 04 2015 23:11 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't forget that Silvers was old and rusty and he handled an admiral ezpz
i'm not really sure if they are trying kill each other
SilverKing was just stalling Kizaru and Kizaru wasn't really into fighting the old man cause he was trying to arrest the others.
Also even if the silverking is old that does not mean he is shit tier like for example whitebeard he's old but he's not like he forgot how to fight.
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On August 04 2015 23:57 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2015 23:11 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't forget that Silvers was old and rusty and he handled an admiral ezpz i'm not really sure if they are trying kill each other SilverKing was just stalling Kizaru and Kizaru wasn't really into fighting the old man cause he was trying to arrest the others. Also even if the silverking is old that does not mean he is shit tier like for example whitebeard he's old but he's not like he forgot how to fight.
I think that was his point.. if he could do that while being a old guy imagine him in his prime plus his captain!
I'm pretty sure Roger was the "strongest" guy since he could Beat=/=run away from the hero marine Garp many times, plus surviving against WB and shiki many times and probably Kaidou!
And he did become the PK by getting to Raftel
The therory behind Law being able to do something to Kaidou does make some sense, because he has the Ope Ope fruit and since there is the theory that Kaidou had the Ope Ope surgery done on him and that could be how DD got that info and later Law
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On August 05 2015 02:44 shell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2015 23:57 goody153 wrote:On August 04 2015 23:11 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't forget that Silvers was old and rusty and he handled an admiral ezpz i'm not really sure if they are trying kill each other SilverKing was just stalling Kizaru and Kizaru wasn't really into fighting the old man cause he was trying to arrest the others. Also even if the silverking is old that does not mean he is shit tier like for example whitebeard he's old but he's not like he forgot how to fight. I think that was his point.. if he could do that while being a old guy imagine him in his prime plus his captain! I'm pretty sure Roger was the "strongest" guy since he could Beat=/=run away from the hero marine Garp many times, plus surviving against WB and shiki many times and probably Kaidou! And he did become the PK by getting to Raftel The therory behind Law being able to do something to Kaidou does make some sense, because he has the Ope Ope fruit and since there is the theory that Kaidou had the Ope Ope surgery done on him and that could be how DD got that info and later Law
i dont think he got the immortality treatment, there was that bit about ropes he was being hanged on breaking so i think its some meta fruit that stops him from dieing by effecting his surroundings
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The word "prime" is so inconsistently used by fans. The strongest people in OP aren't people in their "prime years" but in their 30s to 50s and a few in their 60s.
Age really hasn't played a factor for older people to fight except in the case of WB who had a terminal illness which has far less to do with age than being sick.
From what we observed mastery of Haki only improves with age (mental factor) and the OP power of the fruits gets unlocked with experience/knowledge. Considering these two augment the persons combat prowess far more so than physical prowess the deterioration of the physical is easily offset by the advancements in the other two.
As someone pointed out OP doesn't strictly follow the shounen rules because every powerful fighter in OP is OLD. There are no top tier fighters amongst people in their 'Prime". Shanks is 37years old, hardly "prime" and from all accounts he is MUCH stronger than he was during his "prime" years back in east blue.
This is contrasted to the average shounen where 15year olds are the the best mech piolets, best tennis stars , best fighters et c.
I'd reason that's the same reason Rayleigh isn't weaker than he was during PK's era and all the self pitying about him being "old" is simply trolling/baiting.
If we take the present example of the top tier fighters all in their late 30s to 60s than either the previous generation was insanely more talented than the present tier who make up a generation of talentless people or we have to simply accept people simply get stronger with age in the world of OP (unless they get ill during old age).
The WG representatives look like they are all in their 70s and clearly are powerhouses and possibly yonkou tier.
As for PK being the strongest, he never was. Rumors were exaggerated about his adventures when he simply wanted to travel the world like Luffy did. PK wasn't a title he sought after nor does everything we know about him suggested he wanted to be strong. Not that he wasn't strong because he was on equal terms with WB/GARP , but readers somehow correlate Pirate king as a title bestowed to the 'king' of the sea when it was bestowed upon him by others based on RUMORS.
Id say given the rayleigh / zorro contrast , rayleigh was actually a better fighter than PK much like I think Zorro would be a better fighter than luffy towards the end(though the differences wouldn't be great).
Luffy can become a PK based on the achievements of his crew just like PK became PK. Zorro can't become the strongest swordsman in the world outside of his own achievements/skill. Luffy and crew could beat the Yonkous and Luffy could claim the title of PK but Zorro can't claim the strongest swordsman title unless he does it himself.
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On August 05 2015 14:04 kanchome wrote:
The word "prime" is so inconsistently used by fans. The strongest people in OP aren't people in their "prime years" but in their 30s to 50s and a few in their 60s.
Age really hasn't played a factor for older people to fight except in the case of WB who had a terminal illness which has far less to do with age than being sick.
From what we observed mastery of Haki only improves with age (mental factor) and the OP power of the fruits gets unlocked with experience/knowledge. Considering these two augment the persons combat prowess far more so than physical prowess the deterioration of the physical is easily offset by the advancements in the other two.
As someone pointed out OP doesn't strictly follow the shounen rules because every powerful fighter in OP is OLD. There are no top tier fighters amongst people in their 'Prime". Shanks is 37years old, hardly "prime" and from all accounts he is MUCH stronger than he was during his "prime" years back in east blue.
This is contrasted to the average shounen where 15year olds are the the best mech piolets, best tennis stars , best fighters et c.
I'd reason that's the same reason Rayleigh isn't weaker than he was during PK's era and all the self pitying about him being "old" is simply trolling/baiting.
If we take the present example of the top tier fighters all in their late 30s to 60s than either the previous generation was insanely more talented than the present tier who make up a generation of talentless people or we have to simply accept people simply get stronger with age in the world of OP (unless they get ill during old age).
The WG representatives look like they are all in their 70s and clearly are powerhouses and possibly yonkou tier.
As for PK being the strongest, he never was. Rumors were exaggerated about his adventures when he simply wanted to travel the world like Luffy did. PK wasn't a title he sought after nor does everything we know about him suggested he wanted to be strong. Not that he wasn't strong because he was on equal terms with WB/GARP , but readers somehow correlate Pirate king as a title bestowed to the 'king' of the sea when it was bestowed upon him by others based on RUMORS.
Id say given the rayleigh / zorro contrast , rayleigh was actually a better fighter than PK much like I think Zorro would be a better fighter than luffy towards the end(though the differences wouldn't be great).
Luffy can become a PK based on the achievements of his crew just like PK became PK. Zorro can't become the strongest swordsman in the world outside of his own achievements/skill. Luffy and crew could beat the Yonkous and Luffy could claim the title of PK but Zorro can't claim the strongest swordsman title unless he does it himself.
Age does matter. It's pretty clear that Don Chinjao is not as strong as he was when he was in his prime. Don Chinjao, Garp, Sengoku and Rayleigh are all from the same generation. Shanks, however, is not. Someone like Shanks is currently in his prime and shouldn't be compared to those who had already established themselves during the PK era. Shanks became a Yonkou after PK was caught.
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On August 05 2015 14:04 kanchome wrote:
The word "prime" is so inconsistently used by fans. The strongest people in OP aren't people in their "prime years" but in their 30s to 50s and a few in their 60s.
Age really hasn't played a factor for older people to fight except in the case of WB who had a terminal illness which has far less to do with age than being sick.
From what we observed mastery of Haki only improves with age (mental factor) and the OP power of the fruits gets unlocked with experience/knowledge. Considering these two augment the persons combat prowess far more so than physical prowess the deterioration of the physical is easily offset by the advancements in the other two.
As someone pointed out OP doesn't strictly follow the shounen rules because every powerful fighter in OP is OLD. There are no top tier fighters amongst people in their 'Prime". Shanks is 37years old, hardly "prime" and from all accounts he is MUCH stronger than he was during his "prime" years back in east blue.
This is contrasted to the average shounen where 15year olds are the the best mech piolets, best tennis stars , best fighters et c.
I'd reason that's the same reason Rayleigh isn't weaker than he was during PK's era and all the self pitying about him being "old" is simply trolling/baiting.
If we take the present example of the top tier fighters all in their late 30s to 60s than either the previous generation was insanely more talented than the present tier who make up a generation of talentless people or we have to simply accept people simply get stronger with age in the world of OP (unless they get ill during old age).
The WG representatives look like they are all in their 70s and clearly are powerhouses and possibly yonkou tier.
As for PK being the strongest, he never was. Rumors were exaggerated about his adventures when he simply wanted to travel the world like Luffy did. PK wasn't a title he sought after nor does everything we know about him suggested he wanted to be strong. Not that he wasn't strong because he was on equal terms with WB/GARP , but readers somehow correlate Pirate king as a title bestowed to the 'king' of the sea when it was bestowed upon him by others based on RUMORS.
Id say given the rayleigh / zorro contrast , rayleigh was actually a better fighter than PK much like I think Zorro would be a better fighter than luffy towards the end(though the differences wouldn't be great).
Luffy can become a PK based on the achievements of his crew just like PK became PK. Zorro can't become the strongest swordsman in the world outside of his own achievements/skill. Luffy and crew could beat the Yonkous and Luffy could claim the title of PK but Zorro can't claim the strongest swordsman title unless he does it himself.
Age DOES effect Haki use. Whitebeard tried to use Conqueror's Haki to save Ace at one point, but his heart acted up, leaving Luffy to bust out his.
By all accounts Shanks is stronger now than he was in East Blue? Sure, if by "all accounts" you mean the opposite. There isn't jack shit comparing Shank's strength now vs then, other than Mihawk not wanting to duel him anymore.
Lol Raleigh being stronger than Roger
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Yea Rayleigh said it himself he isn't as strong anymore back on Seabody. Its true that a lot of older characters are strong but Rogers generation is def on the decline and the Shanks generation controls most of the power ATM. Luffys gen is still up and coming and we don't know how strong they will end up but the kids so to speak still have some catching up to do.
Its a pretty natural progression IMO and Ithink it is being a lot better done then a lot of shows (think of how silly it went in Naruto). It's just Oda being better yet again.
Edit: to add to Sent's point WB himself mentioned Shanks trip to the East Blue and commented how surprised people where when he came back sans an arm so obviously he was a major player in the pirate world even then.
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I have a feeling that blackbeard may be the strongest or one of the strongest to ever exist in One Piece universe. I mean multiple DF's and he has both WB and the yami yami. While he hasn't shown prowness in combat he was still the dude who scarred Shanks in the face as well as you probably can't have extreme resilence to combat if you aren't competent in combat yourself (like he took a point blank range punch from whitebeard and didn't get wrecked .. he also traded with Sengoku after that)
Well you compare which pirate generation is stronger since you have to make them fight to be certain. That has been shown in naruto but that became a trainwreck so fast.
There's prolly a chance the new generation in their prime(note that Strawhats and the other pirates are not certainly not in their prime as it is shown they still have room for improvement but it must be close) is miles stronger than the old generation in their prime or vice versa. And there could be a chance that Whitebeard is one of those few gems that pop out very rarely and it turns out he was born on the older generation and if he was born in the new one he might be stronger.
For me at least i'd like to believe younger and newer generation are usually better than the older generation.
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Well Oda obviously hyped Blackbeard up to be one of the strongest ever alright. He has risen extremely fast through the power rank, and has a unique feature that may make him unstoppable as a multi-fruit user.
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He didn't trade with Sengoku, he just took a blow and didn't get rekt.
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Anime showed that he also traded a shot at Sengoku. Idr if it was the same case in the manga. What i'm sure of is that blackbeard didn't get rekt even after taking point blank range quake from whitebeard (which akainu is the only one shown so far that has survived) and Sengokus full attack.
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While being potentially the strongest right now, BB wasn't before WB died tho. WB was known as the strongest person alive, and it took a shit ton to kill him. BB know that he couldn't kill WB alone so he waited to right moment to go full on his face after WB getting back stab, and fighting with Akainu.
Now, now BB is definitly the strongest because he got one of the strongest fruit, and since he knew WB for a long time, he can mimic his techniques. That and the Yami Yami + potential third fruit theory. (Or four even).
So yeah now BB is probably the strongest man alive
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On August 05 2015 22:47 Faust852 wrote:
While being potentially the strongest right now, BB wasn't before WB died tho. WB was known as the strongest person alive, and it took a shit ton to kill him. BB know that he couldn't kill WB alone so he waited to right moment to go full on his face after WB getting back stab, and fighting with Akainu.
Now, now BB is definitly the strongest because he got one of the strongest fruit, and since he knew WB for a long time, he can mimic his techniques. That and the Yami Yami + potential third fruit theory. (Or four even).
So yeah now BB is probably the strongest man alive
Oda just published a chapter that saying "Kaidou is the strongest living creature" and now you saying BB is probably strongest man alive?
i mean seriously?
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On August 05 2015 22:47 Faust852 wrote:
While being potentially the strongest right now, BB wasn't before WB died tho. WB was known as the strongest person alive, and it took a shit ton to kill him. BB know that he couldn't kill WB alone so he waited to right moment to go full on his face after WB getting back stab, and fighting with Akainu.
Now, now BB is definitly the strongest because he got one of the strongest fruit, and since he knew WB for a long time, he can mimic his techniques. That and the Yami Yami + potential third fruit theory. (Or four even).
So yeah now BB is probably the strongest man alive
It's completely and totally useless to speculate the strongest alive. Considering we haven't seen any of the top contenders actually fight post time skip(Most of which we've never seen fight.) Though according to the last chapter Kaido is currently the strongest alive.
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EPT
