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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 03 2013 17:01 Cornstarched wrote:
so now that the intire stark family is dead whats the point of the show again? Oh thats right its basicly over now, besides these side stories that have poped up. This episode ruined the show for me, and i am not watching from this point forward. Killing off the main people in the story like this just seems redundant. Not for me. Great untill this episode, can't belive this actully happend. So unforturate
>the entire stark family
>3 of them
Ok. I guess Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon, and Jon Snow don't exist
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On June 03 2013 16:49 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 16:46 ssxsilver wrote:On June 03 2013 16:36 EthanML wrote:
Are there even any decent "good" characters left other than Tyrion now? -_- I personally found book Tyrion grating. If you want someone to root for however, don't forget about Davos (the onion knight). Guy gets thrown in a cell and he still has nothing but love for his crazy king. he is in love with a religious fanatic who assassinated his brother with a weird shadow baby and burns people he dislikes -- but not even because he per se believes in it but because its the only weapon he has since he is so weak militarily.
Doesn't necessarily make him "bad" though. I mean the only morally "wrong" thing you can really fault him for is being a smuggler, but even then he smuggled food into Storm's End to keep people from starving. He's the only friend to Stannis' daughter.
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Interesting episode. I think this reveals thematic elements regarding George R Martin's story-telling more than anything else. We're all used to the traditional fable with heroic characters that survive in the end - the idea that good wins out and evil is inevitably destroyed. If it wasn't apparent from Martin's earlier treatment of Ned Stark, it should be glaringly apparent now that main characters adored by fans are going to die in Game of Thrones.
I think this episode/chapter is controversial in that most people are subconsciously drawn to traditional moral paradigms in fictional material. It's almost as if knowing that: "in the end things will turn out well" is a source of relief and comfort from our own lives (where outcomes are not predictable and often end badly). What's different here is that Martin had seemingly created a blockbuster fantasy-fiction story. He created dynamic characters, an immersive environment and clear lines between good and evil - all features that voyeurs of traditional fiction and fantasy could relate too. But then the twist is revealed: that our entire concept of what Game of Thrones "is" (in regards to story-telling), is completely wrong. Because today we discovered that this story isn't traditional fiction or high-fantasy at all. Rather, it's a story analogous to our own reality and medieval history. It's "our world" grafted onto a fantasy-environment.
I think there is an important question that remains to be answered after tonight. Will this kind of unpredictable, reality-driven story-telling be what the greater audience actually wants to experience? After all, Martin just recently stated in an interview that [even as it is not yet written] the ending of the story may be "bittersweet". Knowing that "bittersweet" could end up being the primary theme of the entire story, will it still appeal to you? How would you feel in the end if things turned out for the worst?
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The ending isn't what its about, its the journey there. People get so worked up about HOW WILL IT END.
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I just saw the leeches get fed to the fire last episode and knew it those three were most likely going to die soon, I don't know what I expected but I'm still in a total wtf right now.
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On June 03 2013 17:07 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 16:49 Sub40APM wrote:On June 03 2013 16:46 ssxsilver wrote:On June 03 2013 16:36 EthanML wrote:
Are there even any decent "good" characters left other than Tyrion now? -_- I personally found book Tyrion grating. If you want someone to root for however, don't forget about Davos (the onion knight). Guy gets thrown in a cell and he still has nothing but love for his crazy king. he is in love with a religious fanatic who assassinated his brother with a weird shadow baby and burns people he dislikes -- but not even because he per se believes in it but because its the only weapon he has since he is so weak militarily. Doesn't necessarily make him "bad" though. I mean the only morally "wrong" thing you can really fault him for is being a smuggler, but even then he smuggled food into Storm's End to keep people from starving. He's the only friend to Stannis' daughter.
Its like being a really really nice fascist underling. Yes, he is the nicest person in the world but the guy he serves so far seems like a pretty big dick. Not as big as most of the Lannisters but still, pretty terrible. Wanting to kill Robb just because Robb rebelled against the Throne held by Joffrey for example is ultra dick.
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Can someone plz explain to me the scene with Cat and the traitor guy just before the executioning? The traitor guy was pulling Cat's sleeves off her wrist or something, and Cat looked like she knew something bad was gonna happen. I don't understand the meaning of that.
And how many seasons are there gonna be in total for GoT? just wondering
User was banned for this post. (PBU)
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On June 03 2013 17:12 iam12andwhatisthis wrote:
Can someone plz explain to me the scene with Cat and the traitor guy just before the executioning? The traitor guy was pulling Cat's sleeves off her wrist or something, and Cat looked like she knew something bad was gonna happen. I don't understand the meaning of that.
And how many seasons are there gonna be in total for GoT? just wondering
it first happened with some guy in hood/armor closed the door. then the song "rain of castamere" played which is a song about a house/family being wiped out. then roose bolton is wearing chainmail armor underneath, now, why would he be wearing chainmail at a friendly wedding?
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On June 03 2013 17:12 iam12andwhatisthis wrote:
Can someone plz explain to me the scene with Cat and the traitor guy just before the executioning? The traitor guy was pulling Cat's sleeves off her wrist or something, and Cat looked like she knew something bad was gonna happen. I don't understand the meaning of that.
And how many seasons are there gonna be in total for GoT? just wondering
She saw he was wearing chainmail meaning there was getting ready for a fight.
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On June 03 2013 17:12 iam12andwhatisthis wrote:
Can someone plz explain to me the scene with Cat and the traitor guy just before the executioning? The traitor guy was pulling Cat's sleeves off her wrist or something, and Cat looked like she knew something bad was gonna happen. I don't understand the meaning of that.
And how many seasons are there gonna be in total for GoT? just wondering
Cat pulled Bolton's sleeves off and saw he had armor on so she knew something was going to happen because theres no reason to have armor on unless he was planning to fight. Thats what I saw at least.
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On June 03 2013 17:15 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 17:12 iam12andwhatisthis wrote:
Can someone plz explain to me the scene with Cat and the traitor guy just before the executioning? The traitor guy was pulling Cat's sleeves off her wrist or something, and Cat looked like she knew something bad was gonna happen. I don't understand the meaning of that.
And how many seasons are there gonna be in total for GoT? just wondering it first happened with some guy in hood/armor closed the door. then the song "rain of castamere" played which is a song about a house/family being wiped out. then roose bolton is wearing chainmail armor underneath, now, why would he be wearing chainmail at a friendly wedding?
On June 03 2013 17:16 ChaosTriggeR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 17:12 iam12andwhatisthis wrote:
Can someone plz explain to me the scene with Cat and the traitor guy just before the executioning? The traitor guy was pulling Cat's sleeves off her wrist or something, and Cat looked like she knew something bad was gonna happen. I don't understand the meaning of that.
And how many seasons are there gonna be in total for GoT? just wondering Cat pulled Bolton's sleeves off and saw he had armor on so she knew something was going to happen because theres no reason to have armor on unless he was planning to fight. Thats what I saw at least.
ahhh that explains it, ty
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It's great the impact this show has on people. It's a real credit to the show that it can make people hate it so much.
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Cat noticed that Bolton (traitor guy) was wearing chain-mail under his clothes. That combined with the music that was being played, she knew that Bolton betrayed them.
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On June 03 2013 17:10 Shaella wrote:
The ending isn't what its about, its the journey there. People get so worked up about HOW WILL IT END.
I think people consume fiction for a variety of different reasons. I understand that people should get worked up over this - after all, they may have felt stringed-along by the traditional elements in Martin's story. I don't think Martin did this intentionally, as fully developing his characters was a requirement to get the effect he openly claims to be aiming for. That being shock, drama and story that is analogous to the horrors that we experience in our own world. Not everyone wants to watch/read this kind of thing - many people have had more than enough "reality" in their own lives and would prefer something uplifting.
It's fair that some people enjoy emotional challenges (or perhaps don't get attached to characters), just as it's fair that some people do not enjoy those challenges.
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On June 03 2013 14:32 fishjie wrote:
i am enjoying the collection of all these tears. achievement unlocked!
fb status update:
arent weddings lovely?
The Rains of Castemere, the song to add to all wedding playlists <3
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On June 03 2013 17:12 iam12andwhatisthis wrote:
Can someone plz explain to me the scene with Cat and the traitor guy just before the executioning? The traitor guy was pulling Cat's sleeves off or something, and Cat looked like she knew something bad was gonna happen. I don't understand the meaning of that.
And how many seasons are there gonna be in total for GoT? just wondering
The music played right before the massacre was "The Rains of Castamere", which describes the execution of House Castamere by the Lannisters. Cat recognized the music, and also saw Bolton looking at the knife on Cat's plate. Cat then pulled up Bolton's sleeve, which showed that he was wearing a chainmail. After that, what's left to do is just to add the pieces together.
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On June 03 2013 17:07 SCST wrote:
Interesting episode. I think this reveals thematic elements regarding George R Martin's story-telling more than anything else. We're all used to the traditional fable with heroic characters that survive in the end - the idea that good wins out and evil is inevitably destroyed. If it wasn't apparent from Martin's earlier treatment of Ned Stark, it should be glaringly apparent now that main characters adored by fans are going to die in Game of Thrones.
I think this episode/chapter is controversial in that most people are subconsciously drawn to traditional moral paradigms in fictional material. It's almost as if knowing that: "in the end things will turn out well" is a source of relief and comfort from our own lives (where outcomes are not predictable and often end badly). What's different here is that Martin had seemingly created a blockbuster fantasy-fiction story. He created dynamic characters, an immersive environment and clear lines between good and evil - all features that voyeurs of traditional fiction and fantasy could relate too. But then the twist is revealed: that our entire concept of what Game of Thrones "is" (in regards to story-telling), is completely wrong. Because today we discovered that this story isn't traditional fiction or high-fantasy at all. Rather, it's a story analogous to our own reality and medieval history. It's "our world" grafted onto a fantasy-environment.
I think there is an important question that remains to be answered after tonight. Will this kind of unpredictable, reality-driven story-telling be what the greater audience actually wants to experience? After all, Martin just recently stated in an interview that [even as it is not yet written] the ending of the story may be "bittersweet". Knowing that "bittersweet" could end up being the primary theme of the entire story, will it still appeal to you? How would you feel in the end if things turned out for the worst?
I dont have a problem with a realistic setting, where bad guys might win and good guys might lose. What I have a problem with the entire Martin approach to things is the amazing plot armor all his bad guys have while all the good guys cant wait to step into shitty decisions. And I dont mean shitty decisions that are caused by their high morals -- Jon Snow choosing to not personally kill a person who was clearly about to die, and thus expose the Night's Watch to danger and disobey a direct order -- but just because of dumb stuff. "Lol Robb, you crushed 3 armies but you get no benefit from it because...well we dont know why but ya!" or "lol Ned, your wife is actually retarded and started a war while you were stranded way behind enemy lines" or "lol Ned, your wife's ex-boyfriend is going to betray you but you dont see it because you are a dumb northerner" or "lol Robb, the Islanders burned down your castle because 20 pirates walked 100 kms to your castle and no one saw them coming but those but those are the breaks" or "lol renly, your brother is going to use magic to kill you and thus take out the biggest and most powerful army that also happens to be allied to the Starks because magic!'
In the meantime the Lannister family breeds an entire generation of incestuous children, the King drinks himself into stupor and doesnt care that his father in law has littered his court with Lanisters or that his son is a total psychopath. Or even the way Robert fortuitously gets gored by a boar just in time to keep ned from telling him about the incest which would have inevitably led to a war that anihilated every lannister alive.
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Today has inspired me to read the books, not necessarily because I would rather read it than watch, but because this episode was spoiled for me in the form of pirate bay torrent comments about 2 hours before I watched it...
Pretty damn angry right now. Probably the best 'holy shit' of the show since Ned's death in season 1.
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On June 03 2013 17:11 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 17:07 ssxsilver wrote:On June 03 2013 16:49 Sub40APM wrote:On June 03 2013 16:46 ssxsilver wrote:On June 03 2013 16:36 EthanML wrote:
Are there even any decent "good" characters left other than Tyrion now? -_- I personally found book Tyrion grating. If you want someone to root for however, don't forget about Davos (the onion knight). Guy gets thrown in a cell and he still has nothing but love for his crazy king. he is in love with a religious fanatic who assassinated his brother with a weird shadow baby and burns people he dislikes -- but not even because he per se believes in it but because its the only weapon he has since he is so weak militarily. Doesn't necessarily make him "bad" though. I mean the only morally "wrong" thing you can really fault him for is being a smuggler, but even then he smuggled food into Storm's End to keep people from starving. He's the only friend to Stannis' daughter. Its like being a really really nice fascist underling. Yes, he is the nicest person in the world but the guy he serves so far seems like a pretty big dick. Not as big as most of the Lannisters but still, pretty terrible. Wanting to kill Robb just because Robb rebelled against the Throne held by Joffrey for example is ultra dick.
Hmm I guess our disconnect is just from how we view Stannis. I can certainly understand Stannis=bad, but I always thought of him being more a big stickler for law. Remember he is the rightful heir to Westeros and his first option wasn't to kill Renly/Robb (think back to the parlay scene). Basically the only way he's going to win the Iron Throne is through war and he has the smallest army of all the powers in play.
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On June 03 2013 16:36 EthanML wrote:
Are there even any decent "good" characters left other than Tyrion now? -_-
Tyrion, Arya, and Jamie are the best characters in the show.
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EPT
