EPT[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1706
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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On September 06 2017 22:01 aseq wrote: Haha ok, you got me there! But the curved thing still stands. I thought this was the 'bash GoT for it's flaws'-thread. But apparently, it's only for unclear timelines, not obvious physics flaws. Unclear timelines, lacking character motivation and rampant deus ex machinas (among other things) are much worse than the obvious physics flaws (which I just laugh at and move on). I don't deny the criticism, though. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 06 2017 23:43 Plansix wrote: My metric for nitpicking is if it sounds like something the Simpsons Comic book guy would say. Or if I think it would be on Cinema Sins. I mean in general you don't seem to acknowledge any criticism tbh. GoT has really big flaws compared to before, if you think all of that is on nitpick level then it's only logical that there won't ever be something we agree on. Though it boils down to your art pov, everything is subjective. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 06 2017 23:50 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean in general you don't seem to acknowledge any criticism tbh. GoT has really big flaws compared to before, if you think all of that is on nitpick level then it's only logical that there won't ever be something we agree on. Though it boils down to your art pov, everything is subjective. I acknowledge plenty of criticism when it isn’t presented in a condescending, pretentious tone with rife unearned authority. Presentation and tone matter, which is a criticism you often disregard by claiming “but the criticisms are valid” as some sort of talismanic shield. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Some of it is fairly reasonable in tone, usually you then come in with a nitpick argument to devalue the legit one. Making fun of every criticism to imply no criticism in this thread is reasonable. And sure i can see that some stuff migth be condescending, but there is a point where i simply cannot even fantasize how someone can not see the flaw and rather defends the show for the xth time. You will say it's because every criticism is subjective, i say sometimes it's simple fanboyism in the sense of "hey i liked the show therefore everything it does is good". Believe it or not, i like the show as well. That's the reason i watch it. I don't like it anymore for the writing though and yes i think pointing out the inconsistencies and flaws is legit. When i then read quotes of the director saying stuff like "hey there are dragons who cares how fast a raven can fly" then i think it's the prime example for the writing quality of the show these days. Again, the red wedding happened because people cared before about these things. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 07 2017 00:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: It's not like every post of mine (or here in this thread in general) are "GoT sucks!!!" Some of it is fairly reasonable in tone, usually you then come in with a nitpick argument to devalue the legit one. Making fun of every criticism to imply no criticism in this thread is reasonable. And sure i can see that some stuff migth be condescending, but there is a point where i simply cannot even fantasize how someone can not see the flaw and rather defends the show for the xth time. You will say it's because every criticism is subjective, i say sometimes it's simple fanboyism in the sense of "hey i liked the show therefore everything it does is good". Believe it or not, i like the show as well. That's the reason i watch it. I don't like it anymore for the writing though and yes i think pointing out the inconsistencies and flaws is legit. When i then read quotes of the director saying stuff like "hey there are dragons who cares how fast a raven can fly" then i think it's the prime example for the writing quality of the show these days. Again, the red wedding happened because people cared before about these things. First off: I am not the only one who has critiqued the negative tone in this thread and its most prolific posters. It is a complain that is often met with derision or claims that criticism isn’t allowed. As if tone and criticism directly linked, Second: Honestly, I was of the opinion you watched the show just to complain about it. The way you present your critiques does not convey your enjoyment. You would not be the first person on the internet I have met that watched something simply to rip it apart on the internet, just for the joy of watching fans respond. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 07 2017 00:45 Plansix wrote: First off: I am not the only one who has critiqued the negative tone in this thread and its most prolific posters. It is a complain that is often met with derision or claims that criticism isn’t allowed. As if tone and criticism directly linked, Second: Honestly, I was of the opinion you watched the show just to complain about it. The way you present your critiques does not convey your enjoyment. You would not be the first person on the internet I have met that watched something simply to rip it apart on the internet, just for the joy of watching fans respond. And i am not the only one who criticizes the show for its writing. So? Why am i not praising the things i like every time? Because it's basically always the same, the production value, the acting, etc. When something is better than that "good standard" i actually still mention it. What most people talk about here though is the plot and thus writing. That's the weak point of the show though. If the guys here would talk more about the technical filming aspects which are still good then i would probably mention it more as well simply because there would be a discussion about it. About your second point, i don't think these people really exist. At least not nearly to the extent you would believe. Personally i loved the first few seasons and now i just enjoy it enough to keep going. It's still "good" because it's an HBO show with lots of production value, if we take that away it wouldn't be worth watching anymore. Thank god that stuff actually matters in a visual medium, though the writing is still the most important part arguably, at least for a show like GoT where smart writing was the inital reason for most people to watch it and fall in love with it. On September 07 2017 00:46 ComaDose wrote: reading this thread definitely made me more jaded watching the show. beyond the wall transportation was painful but i still enjoyed the finale. biggest complaint with it was the tyrion cercie convo. do you guys think tyrion told her to just lie? No i think there won't be any twist regarding this cut. Whatever happened offscreen isn't important, that is all. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 07 2017 00:56 The_Red_Viper wrote: And i am not the only one who criticizes the show for its writing. So? Why am i not praising the things i like every time? Because it's basically always the same, the production value, the acting, etc. When something is better than that "good standard" i actually still mention it. What most people talk about here though is the plot and thus writing. That's the weak point of the show though. If the guys here would talk more about the technical filming aspects which are still good then i would probably mention it more as well simply because there would be a discussion about it. About your second point, i don't think these people really exist. At least not nearly to the extent you would believe. Personally i loved the first few seasons and now i just enjoy it enough to keep going. It's still "good" because it's an HBO show with lots of production value, if we take that away it wouldn't be worth watching anymore. Thank god that stuff actually matters as well though in a visual medium, though the writing is still the most important part arguably, at least for a show like GoT where smart writing was the inital reason for most people to watch it and fall in love with it. Those people are very real. They are the internet version of the people who only listen to under ground bands you likely have not heard of. As for the rest, you can take my criticism or leave it. I criticize this show too, but I prefer to mock it and or pair my criticism with praise. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Though at the same time one would probably think i hate the show from reading mine. In general i do not believe that there are lots of people who can hate a show enough to keep watching it and then even take part of an online community to discuss it, no. At the end of the day you only have so much time for entertainment, GoT has to compete against other shows, time to read books, time to watch esports, time to watch some movies, etc. If i wouldn't get enough pleasure out of it to justify the hour each week i wouldn't watch it. Though talking about it certainly adds value, knowing the books and being tired of waiting for the last ones adds incentive as well, etc. So sure maybe there are some people who wouldn't watch the show anymore if not for the time you already "had to" invest, that's a valid perspective i guess. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9246 Posts
I think I used to complain about the show much more in the past. Now I just keep repeating that silly shit stopped bothering me, as I no longer consider the show top tier and just want it to be a fun time-killer in its last few seasons. Probably most of my posts are still negative in their tone, but that's because there isn't much to talk about. Euron's motivations are like the only things that still intrigue me in the show. That doesn't mean I dislike everything else. I like other things like better dragon CGI, Davos having funny lines or Euron being a badass. I don't mention them in my posts because there is nothing to discuss about them. The only way this show could make me mad is Dexter-tier finale or some idiotic "great reveal" of something that would invalidate everything that happened in the past e.g. "Bran is actually the Night King who planned this all along and he mind-raped the Mad King to make him mad because reasons". Predictable holywood ending with Dany and Jon flying toward the sunset on their dragon(s) after destroying the forces of evil will satisfy me. On September 07 2017 00:46 ComaDose wrote: reading this thread definitely made me more jaded watching the show. beyond the wall transportation was painful but i still enjoyed the finale. biggest complaint with it was the tyrion cercie convo. do you guys think tyrion told her to just lie? No, I'm pretty sure she convinced herself to lie. Keep in mind that she already had the Tyrell gold and the Iron Bank's support, so she probably had her plan ready by the time Dany's entourage showed up in KL. Tyrion was there just to create an emotional clash for the viewers. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
In general, I find the complaints about being predictable to be a product of Martin’s conflicting goals. He made series rooted in human interests and goals, but then put ice zombies and dragons in it. And called it a song of fire and ice. He put two likeable characters on opposite ends of the world, one in fire, the other in ice. This problem is further punctuated by Martins inability to write these books, given fans endless time to comb over the series and speculate. The best theories became well known fan theories long before the TV show started. I’ve been hearing people speculate about ice dragons since 2000-2002. It is a million monkeys on keyboards and then youtube, leading to us guessing the end long before we reached this season. I have my own feelings on Martin and his love of cliff hangers and killing characters. It was enjoyable and shocking at first and revealing the second time(red wedding). But at some point the length of time between books and his constant glee about fans unhappiness with the direction of characters had this abusive tone. By book 5, I was pretty done with his dithering and lack of direction for the series. For this season, I was not overtly critical of the arya plot this season, but did say that I felt it could have been handled better. I understood the need for the trip to the north, though I had problems with the way that episode was handled. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I never liked that system  | ||
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
Now the show is mostly fan service like The Force Awakens was. Not bad, but not great. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 07 2017 01:40 The_Red_Viper wrote: Oh i understand that you enjoy it, but that's vague at best. I have no idea how much you like it, or how highly you would rate it, etc. Though i guess you don't think about it that way, it's more of the rotten tomatoe system where it's either enjoying it or disliking it. I never liked that system I don’t really rate shows against each other. I dislike trying to find some quantifiable scale to my enjoyment. I find it gets in the way of me understanding why I enjoy something. I enjoy Game of Thrones for a lot of reasons, but mostly because it deconstructs legend, myth and reality. It feeds into my background in history. One of my favorite moments is Bri betting Jamie in a straight duel. A guy known for his skill with the blade beaten handily by an unknown woman trying to become a knight. That his fame had merit, but was nowhere near objective truth. | ||
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TMG26
Portugal2017 Posts
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9246 Posts
On September 07 2017 01:47 Sakat wrote: Well the writing certainly got worse since season 4, but in my mind that is to be expected as we are nearing the third act and there are no more books to adapt. Now the show is mostly fan service like The Force Awakens was. Not bad, but not great. I have a vague memory of someone complaining about the show being "slow" in s2 "because" the writers tried to stick to the books instead of giving us more action. I miss those days. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On September 07 2017 00:23 Plansix wrote: I acknowledge plenty of criticism when it isn’t presented in a condescending, pretentious tone with rife unearned authority. Presentation and tone matter, which is a criticism you often disregard by claiming “but the criticisms are valid” as some sort of talismanic shield. And yet you make up alternative facts such as "money doesn't matter anymore - there are no mercanaries left" in order to deflect criticism of the show. Not just was this proven wrong, but you presented it as if it was a fact even though it was complete speculation from your side. Or what about comparing decisions made under WW2 to the bad councilling by Tyrion while offering no deeper analysis or showing no real understanding on why decisions were made under WW2. I think it's obvious that your mind is predetermined to reflect all types of criticism regardless of its valid or not. Presentation and tone matter, which is a criticism you often disregard by claiming “but the criticisms are valid” as some sort of talismanic shield. Which shouldn't matter when it comes to whether the criticism is valid or not. I guess whenever someone questions authority in a condescending matter, you jump to the defense - while never actually looking at the arguments presented by the person. I read over a thousands of your post rejecting criticism - yet I can't remember a single time where you attempted to asses all of the arguments by the poster and explain why they were wrong. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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