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[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1346

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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed.
ShurykaN
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States338 Posts
May 11 2015 06:55 GMT
#26901
I don't understand why Stannis and the Boltons have to fight; couldn't Stannis ask them to join his army? It seems like their alliance with the Lannisters isn't very strong at the moment.
Hyperbola
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2554 Posts
May 11 2015 07:00 GMT
#26902
Why not cut that chunk of your arm off? Or just the entire arm? He's right-handed and its his left arm so nothing of value is lost.
####
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
May 11 2015 07:01 GMT
#26903
On May 11 2015 15:52 Steveling wrote:
Oh, I forgot to write my original comment.
Wtf half the season is gone and -still- no major characters dead? This is getting boring.


White Rat was killed
AKMU / IU
Twoflowers
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany241 Posts
May 11 2015 07:38 GMT
#26904
On May 11 2015 16:00 Hyperbola wrote:
Why not cut that chunk of your arm off? Or just the entire arm? He's right-handed and its his left arm so nothing of value is lost.


Cutting off the arm probably doesn't heal the infection.
dbizzle
Profile Joined May 2010
United States395 Posts
May 11 2015 07:57 GMT
#26905
On May 11 2015 15:55 ShurykaN wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis and the Boltons have to fight; couldn't Stannis ask them to join his army? It seems like their alliance with the Lannisters isn't very strong at the moment.


So some one backstabs your good friend's family, murders them at their wedding, takes their home, skin their people and backs up the lannisters and you wonder why he wants to get rid of them?
Alethios
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
New Zealand2765 Posts
May 11 2015 08:25 GMT
#26906
On May 11 2015 16:57 dbizzle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2015 15:55 ShurykaN wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis and the Boltons have to fight; couldn't Stannis ask them to join his army? It seems like their alliance with the Lannisters isn't very strong at the moment.


So some one backstabs your good friend's family, murders them at their wedding, takes their home, skin their people and backs up the lannisters and you wonder why he wants to get rid of them?

Not to mention Stannis is all into that honour shit. Furthermore, he wouldn't necessarily know that the Bolton/Lannister alliance isn't as strong as it publicly seems.
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love.
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-11 09:31:48
May 11 2015 09:30 GMT
#26907
a pretty slow episode, i was looking forward to seeing the fighting pits.

also wtf dany gonna marry a slave master? i think maybe she has something up her sleeve.
savior did nothing wrong
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22664 Posts
May 11 2015 11:20 GMT
#26908
On May 11 2015 13:58 Zooper31 wrote:
Shit, Drogon gets around. Dude alrdy flying around Valyria. Then again I don't have a huge understanding of the map and how far that actually is from Mereen.

http://quartermaester.info/
The map has no spoilers so long as you don't touch the menu on the right.
Scroll east to find where Danny is.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Spaylz
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan1743 Posts
May 11 2015 11:56 GMT
#26909
On May 11 2015 16:57 dbizzle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2015 15:55 ShurykaN wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis and the Boltons have to fight; couldn't Stannis ask them to join his army? It seems like their alliance with the Lannisters isn't very strong at the moment.


So some one backstabs your good friend's family, murders them at their wedding, takes their home, skin their people and backs up the lannisters and you wonder why he wants to get rid of them?


Stannis is hardly a friend to the Starks. He "wished" for Robb Stark's death when Melisandre did the leech trick with Gendry. He's evolved since then I think, but I wouldn't consider Stannis a "friend" to the Starks, merely an ally.

I believe he wants to fight and oust the Boltons for several reasons:

- He wants to be king, and they are in the way
- He knows what they are, and what they stand for
- They are allies to the Lannister, and by extension, his ennemies
- They have Sansa Stark (although I don't think he knows?), so it could help him rally the North
I like words.
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-11 14:18:11
May 11 2015 13:56 GMT
#26910
At least dany adresses what a lot of viewers were thinking, that ser barristan the bold died in a fucking backalley.

Funny to see stannis being a grammar nazi. It has probably happened a few times in the series but i cant remember.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22664 Posts
May 11 2015 14:05 GMT
#26911
I know people dont die like they deserve in Game of Thrones but after spending 4 seasons hyping him up Barristan Selmy deserved more then he got. Maybe the book does him more justice but that's not something we can discuss her.

Cant help but think the master that Danny is marrying is a dead man.
Nice touch to have Drogon hang out at his ancestral roots but overall an uneventful episode that is just setting up for later events.

oh and yes the Grey Worm love story is cringe worthy.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
May 11 2015 14:09 GMT
#26912
Missandei is a qutie tho
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
May 11 2015 15:28 GMT
#26913
On May 11 2015 15:55 ShurykaN wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis and the Boltons have to fight; couldn't Stannis ask them to join his army? It seems like their alliance with the Lannisters isn't very strong at the moment.


Would you want to ally with someone who betrayed their own allies in the war against the lannisters? I mean he personally stuck a dagger through Rob Stark's heart and he was from the north. Stannis isn't from the North, I wouldn't trust the boltons ever just because they've already betrayed their own because it was starting to look bad.
When I think of something else, something will go here
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
May 11 2015 15:53 GMT
#26914
I like stannis a lot now, I want him to conquer the iron throne.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
May 11 2015 16:40 GMT
#26915
On May 12 2015 00:28 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2015 15:55 ShurykaN wrote:
I don't understand why Stannis and the Boltons have to fight; couldn't Stannis ask them to join his army? It seems like their alliance with the Lannisters isn't very strong at the moment.


Would you want to ally with someone who betrayed their own allies in the war against the lannisters? I mean he personally stuck a dagger through Rob Stark's heart and he was from the north. Stannis isn't from the North, I wouldn't trust the boltons ever just because they've already betrayed their own because it was starting to look bad.


Stannis also has a really strong sense of duty and justice, while not really holding a grudge. This means he is ok with making Hand of the King the guy he cut off the fingers of for smuggling. He thinks Rob was a traitor for betraying the realm, and he thinks the Boltons are murderers for wiping out half the nobility of the North out of petty vengeance. It'll be ugly what happens to Walder Frey if Stannis gets that far south. The real problem for him is there aren't a lot of people he could really ally with:

-Littlefinger could be a temporary ally against the Boltons, but he's not temperamentally suited to being a long-term Stannis ally.
-The Tyrells haven't done anything that offends his sense of justice beyond temporary alliances with two of his enemies, but they're basically in control of the throne he wants now, so barring a really good royal marriage that's out of the question.
-The Dornish could theoretically work. Mostly the two are united by hatred of the Lannisters. Dorne does seem to kinda want to keep out of all of it though.
-Lannisters are obviously out of the question, unless that guy in King's Landing turns out to really hate Cersei that much.
-Probably the best candidate is the "Brotherhood without Banners." Same religion, concern for justice, hatred of Lannisters, admiration of Ned Stark. Not sure how militarily strong they are though.

The religion thing is an impediment, but perhaps not terminal. On the one hand, if Stannis just goes the religious tolerance route (I don't see him trying to convert Jon Snow terribly hard), he could just add a third religion to the two alreay flourishing. Another possibility exist too: the Faith of the Seven doesn't actually seem to be taken seriously by many people, and the fanatics of the Faith Militant could theoretically poison the reputation of the religion as a whole just enough for Stannis to step in and clean things up.
Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
May 11 2015 18:25 GMT
#26916
Maybe the remaining Stark bannermen would help Stannis against Bolton and Frey as revenge for the Red Wedding and in exchange for a pardon for their earlier treason.
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
May 11 2015 18:28 GMT
#26917
Does Tyrion have greyscale now? Not sure if he didn't remember because he was unconcious and almost drowing but one of the stone men most definitely grabbed him underwater and from his tone and demeanour it seemed like he was lying to Jorah. But then it again it didn't look like direct contact but he was only touched on his boot/pants.
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3819 Posts
May 11 2015 20:33 GMT
#26918
On May 08 2015 01:45 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2015 22:04 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Yep, it was Bronn, he exactly described the strategy he could to win vs mountain, and the same strat was picked by Oberyn.
Considering Oberyns past I think he was like S+ fighter overall, while Bronn somewhere near S or A+
emotions killed the viper

just my personal tier list of fighters based in our show so far:

S+
+ Show Spoiler +
Jaime (when he had both hands)
Oberyn
Jaqen Hagar (arguably, and I agree with Spaylz post)


S
+ Show Spoiler +
The Mountain
Bronn
Ned Stark
Ser Baristan Selmy
Khal Drogo
Dario Naharis
Brienne
Grey Worm


A
+ Show Spoiler +
Jon Snow
Ser Jorah Mormont
Ser Aliser Torne
Syrio Forel
The Hound
Ser Loras Tyrell
Berik Dondarrion


B
+ Show Spoiler +
Ser Merin Trant


probably i forgot someone



Yeah obviously tier lists are a silly exercise, if fun.

What really matters is different expertise, and how it matters in practice and as regards the character. Brienne is insanely good at dueling--she's repeatedly taken on the best in Westeros and beaten them in swordplay with efficient bladework and skillful disarms. But we have no idea what she's like in a battle. The Mountain would be a terror on the battlefield, capable of cleaving through groups of enemies, but his relative lack of finesse made him vulnerable in 1v1. Oberyrn was an insane fighter, who ended up biting it because of overconfidence. Bronn would probably be up there for generally being useful in any situation.

Or how about this situation: who loses in a one-on-one in an open field against a competent archer? That's actually bad news for a few of the best: Snow, Oberyn, and Bronn are all probably hosed. Loras, Brienne, and even fucking Tywin might well make it.

Show nested quote +
On May 07 2015 20:01 TMG26 wrote:
On May 06 2015 04:09 Mafe wrote:

Also, should Tommen and Myrcella die, nobody should have any legitimate reason to dispute Stannis' claim to the throne (even though I don't see Cersei, Jaime, and maybe even the Tyrells accepting this at all)?!


Stannis next in line after Myrcella. Assuming Tommen and Myrcella are legitimate.


Normally, heritage has children before brothers and then uncles, Tyrion should have been the current Lannister top dog, but he is exiled, that means Cersei is in charge (Males only take priority over Females in the same generation, so Cersei comes before Tywin's Brother). Shall Cersei die, Castle Rock should go to Tommen, and so the Lannister heritage falls to Baratheon name.

But since relationships are good between Tommen and Tywin's Brother, Tommen might as well pass it to him.

The Sand Snakes should just make sure that Tommen produces no heirs, and Myrcella is next in line for both the Iron Throne and the Rock. Myrcella sons will have the last name Martell because Tyrion in season 2 shipped her to Dorne to marry the Martell heir.


Still claims are claims, if if legitimate, wars were fought for less.


This is a good analysis. I'm not sure the Sand Snakes are that rational, but if I were Doran, I'd be explaining this to them, and set them off to take out Tommen, not harm their only hope out of a silly idea of revenge.

Also, there's a chance that Stannis would have his claim considered disqualified by some on the grounds of his religion. We haven't seen clear laws on this in Westeros, but I can easily imagine that somebody could oppose it on religious grounds (heck, most viewers do).

Religion doesn't matter when you have the bigger army.

Robert won the throne by conquest, so can Stannis.
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
Warfie
Profile Joined February 2009
Norway2849 Posts
May 11 2015 20:56 GMT
#26919
On May 12 2015 03:28 AsnSensation wrote:
Does Tyrion have greyscale now? Not sure if he didn't remember because he was unconcious and almost drowing but one of the stone men most definitely grabbed him underwater and from his tone and demeanour it seemed like he was lying to Jorah. But then it again it didn't look like direct contact but he was only touched on his boot/pants.

I think it's direct skin contact, which didn't happen. Would be totally mind fuck since Jorah already 'showed' the viewers he has it hehe
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
May 11 2015 21:26 GMT
#26920
On May 12 2015 05:33 Grovbolle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2015 01:45 Yoav wrote:
On May 07 2015 22:04 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Yep, it was Bronn, he exactly described the strategy he could to win vs mountain, and the same strat was picked by Oberyn.
Considering Oberyns past I think he was like S+ fighter overall, while Bronn somewhere near S or A+
emotions killed the viper

just my personal tier list of fighters based in our show so far:

S+
+ Show Spoiler +
Jaime (when he had both hands)
Oberyn
Jaqen Hagar (arguably, and I agree with Spaylz post)


S
+ Show Spoiler +
The Mountain
Bronn
Ned Stark
Ser Baristan Selmy
Khal Drogo
Dario Naharis
Brienne
Grey Worm


A
+ Show Spoiler +
Jon Snow
Ser Jorah Mormont
Ser Aliser Torne
Syrio Forel
The Hound
Ser Loras Tyrell
Berik Dondarrion


B
+ Show Spoiler +
Ser Merin Trant


probably i forgot someone



Yeah obviously tier lists are a silly exercise, if fun.

What really matters is different expertise, and how it matters in practice and as regards the character. Brienne is insanely good at dueling--she's repeatedly taken on the best in Westeros and beaten them in swordplay with efficient bladework and skillful disarms. But we have no idea what she's like in a battle. The Mountain would be a terror on the battlefield, capable of cleaving through groups of enemies, but his relative lack of finesse made him vulnerable in 1v1. Oberyrn was an insane fighter, who ended up biting it because of overconfidence. Bronn would probably be up there for generally being useful in any situation.

Or how about this situation: who loses in a one-on-one in an open field against a competent archer? That's actually bad news for a few of the best: Snow, Oberyn, and Bronn are all probably hosed. Loras, Brienne, and even fucking Tywin might well make it.

On May 07 2015 20:01 TMG26 wrote:
On May 06 2015 04:09 Mafe wrote:

Also, should Tommen and Myrcella die, nobody should have any legitimate reason to dispute Stannis' claim to the throne (even though I don't see Cersei, Jaime, and maybe even the Tyrells accepting this at all)?!


Stannis next in line after Myrcella. Assuming Tommen and Myrcella are legitimate.


Normally, heritage has children before brothers and then uncles, Tyrion should have been the current Lannister top dog, but he is exiled, that means Cersei is in charge (Males only take priority over Females in the same generation, so Cersei comes before Tywin's Brother). Shall Cersei die, Castle Rock should go to Tommen, and so the Lannister heritage falls to Baratheon name.

But since relationships are good between Tommen and Tywin's Brother, Tommen might as well pass it to him.

The Sand Snakes should just make sure that Tommen produces no heirs, and Myrcella is next in line for both the Iron Throne and the Rock. Myrcella sons will have the last name Martell because Tyrion in season 2 shipped her to Dorne to marry the Martell heir.


Still claims are claims, if if legitimate, wars were fought for less.


This is a good analysis. I'm not sure the Sand Snakes are that rational, but if I were Doran, I'd be explaining this to them, and set them off to take out Tommen, not harm their only hope out of a silly idea of revenge.

Also, there's a chance that Stannis would have his claim considered disqualified by some on the grounds of his religion. We haven't seen clear laws on this in Westeros, but I can easily imagine that somebody could oppose it on religious grounds (heck, most viewers do).

Religion doesn't matter when you have the bigger army.

Robert won the throne by conquest, so can Stannis.


Winning the throne is different than being able to rule. If religion was taken seriously, it might be a problem. However, for reasons outlined above, I think he may be able to overcome the fact that his religion involves burning people alive for not joining up.

/*This is, incidentally, a way more aggressive attitude than Christianity or Islam took at pretty much any point; apostasy has often been punished, particularly in the Muslim world where the religion has explicit rules against it, but failure to convert is usually just dealt with via social pressure or heavier taxation (again, particularly the latter in Muslim territories). Even Spain was more liberal than the Red God's guys... the expulsion was just that, and the violent persecution largely targeted those who either secretly practiced other faiths or, or converted to them afterward. Violent witch hunts of heretics or infidels are historically mostly just mob violence, relatively rarely conducted from on high.*/
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