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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
United States41950 Posts
On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere.
In the months before Robert's Rebellion the Starks went through a bit of a purging. Ned's father and brother were burned alive, his sister was abducted and died, his other brother ended up on the wall (we don't know the context behind that). Robb has no cousins on the Stark side that we know of, we'd have to go to second or third cousins. His closest relatives were the Tully's where he had first cousins.
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On May 06 2015 23:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere. In the months before Robert's Rebellion the Starks went through a bit of a purging. Ned's father and brother were burned alive, his sister was abducted and died, his other brother ended up on the wall (we don't know the context behind that). Robb has no cousins on the Stark side that we know of, we'd have to go to second or third cousins. His closest relatives were the Tully's where he had first cousins.
Actually on the wall went Ned's younger brother
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United States41950 Posts
On May 06 2015 23:52 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 23:51 KwarK wrote:On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere. In the months before Robert's Rebellion the Starks went through a bit of a purging. Ned's father and brother were burned alive, his sister was abducted and died, his other brother ended up on the wall (we don't know the context behind that). Robb has no cousins on the Stark side that we know of, we'd have to go to second or third cousins. His closest relatives were the Tully's where he had first cousins. Actually on the wall went Ned's younger brother
That's what I said.
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On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere.
Considering the Stark name goes back 3000 years, meaning 120 generations (25 years per generation), everyone in westeros has "Stark blood" (each living being has 2^120 entries in his family tree at that date, which means a lot of duplicates and almost certainly a stark, given that there are more than 0 living starks today).
As for "close" cousins, the only information in the show is that there are no other living heirs up to Ned's father (considering bran/rickon/arya/robb/benjen/lyanna/brandon dead and john a bastard in the night's watch).
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On May 06 2015 23:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere. In the months before Robert's Rebellion the Starks went through a bit of a purging. Ned's father and brother were burned alive, his sister was abducted and died, his other brother ended up on the wall (we don't know the context behind that). Robb has no cousins on the Stark side that we know of, we'd have to go to second or third cousins. His closest relatives were the Tully's where he had first cousins.
I guess the Stark question specifically can be explained by saying they lost a lot in the two wars and the associated murders. Any distant cousins probably keeping their head down for now while, and are basically irrelevant now that actual Stark kids are turning up.
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On May 07 2015 00:33 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 23:51 KwarK wrote:On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere. In the months before Robert's Rebellion the Starks went through a bit of a purging. Ned's father and brother were burned alive, his sister was abducted and died, his other brother ended up on the wall (we don't know the context behind that). Robb has no cousins on the Stark side that we know of, we'd have to go to second or third cousins. His closest relatives were the Tully's where he had first cousins. I guess the Stark question specifically can be explained by saying they lost a lot in the two wars and the associated murders. Any distant cousins probably keeping their head down for now while, and are basically irrelevant now that actual Stark kids are turning up.
Yeah if there are some Starks running around I doubt they are bragging about it until this whole thing settles out. Or at least until Sansa gives them something to fight for.
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United States41950 Posts
Jon should totally take the legitimacy anyway though. He doesn't have to leave the wall just because he's not a Snow anymore.
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On May 07 2015 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 00:33 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:51 KwarK wrote:On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere. In the months before Robert's Rebellion the Starks went through a bit of a purging. Ned's father and brother were burned alive, his sister was abducted and died, his other brother ended up on the wall (we don't know the context behind that). Robb has no cousins on the Stark side that we know of, we'd have to go to second or third cousins. His closest relatives were the Tully's where he had first cousins. I guess the Stark question specifically can be explained by saying they lost a lot in the two wars and the associated murders. Any distant cousins probably keeping their head down for now while, and are basically irrelevant now that actual Stark kids are turning up. Yeah if there are some Starks running around I doubt they are bragging about it until this whole thing settles out. Or at least until Sansa gives them something to fight for.
The North remembers.
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On May 07 2015 00:36 KwarK wrote:
Jon should totally take the legitimacy anyway though. He doesn't have to leave the wall just because he's not a Snow anymore.
Stannis would likely revoke it if he backed off on his conditions of being legitimated, though.
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Even if there were Starks running around they may not even know they're Starks. I'm sure most of Robert's bastards weren't aware they were his, so imagine if those bastards had children who had more children. I doubt their children's children would be aware of their roots.
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On May 07 2015 01:14 killa_robot wrote:
Even if there were Starks running around they may not even know they're Starks. I'm sure most of Robert's bastards weren't aware they were his, so imagine if those bastards had children who had more children. I doubt their children's children would be aware of their roots.
Right but we're talking distant legitimate relatives, and in a Feudal society where it's very important to keep track of such things.
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Canada8157 Posts
That frenzy at the end.. what a massacre
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My memory for minor details isnt that good :p
Thought it was from the 3 eyed raven Bran saw
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On May 07 2015 00:03 Oshuy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere. Considering the Stark name goes back 3000 years, meaning 120 generations (25 years per generation), everyone in westeros has "Stark blood" (each living being has 2^120 entries in his family tree at that date, which means a lot of duplicates and almost certainly a stark, given that there are more than 0 living starks today). As for "close" cousins, the only information in the show is that there are no other living heirs up to Ned's father (considering bran/rickon/arya/robb/benjen/lyanna/brandon dead and john a bastard in the night's watch).
but bran, rickon and arya are not dead at all?
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Most everyone thinks they're dead.
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On May 07 2015 10:09 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 00:03 Oshuy wrote:On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere. Considering the Stark name goes back 3000 years, meaning 120 generations (25 years per generation), everyone in westeros has "Stark blood" (each living being has 2^120 entries in his family tree at that date, which means a lot of duplicates and almost certainly a stark, given that there are more than 0 living starks today). As for "close" cousins, the only information in the show is that there are no other living heirs up to Ned's father (considering bran/rickon/arya/robb/benjen/lyanna/brandon dead and john a bastard in the night's watch). but bran, rickon and arya are not dead at all?
As viewers, we know that all three are alive, but almost everyone within the GoT world thinks they're dead.
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On May 07 2015 11:43 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 10:09 Frolossus wrote:On May 07 2015 00:03 Oshuy wrote:On May 06 2015 23:42 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 23:38 ZasZ. wrote:On May 06 2015 23:23 Yoav wrote:On May 06 2015 18:19 zatic wrote:On May 06 2015 17:48 -Archangel- wrote:
I don't think Tommen gets it, he is officially a Baratheon, not Lannister. Oh, right. So it's Kevan right now and unless there are other sons of his we don't know about after him it looks grim for the Lannister line of succession. Yeah, I mean, I'm still a little confused by the way royal families work in this universe. Any real family can keep backing up generations to find more relatives, even if they have a different family name. Sometimes, as when the British had disqualified Catholic succession, you can jump to somebody who was 50-something on the list. But, barring bad bookkeeping, you should always be able to find someone. I'm sure they'd be able to find someone but when you go that deep on the succession list the claims get weaker and weaker and there are more and more people in a similar position as you. Even in the most stable systems this causes conflict and Westeros is anything but stable. Letting succession fall that far down the line is a surefire way to get another war in this universe. Fair enough, but it's just odd to me that everyone's treating Sansa like she's the "last Stark" when surely there are dozens of them running around somewhere. Considering the Stark name goes back 3000 years, meaning 120 generations (25 years per generation), everyone in westeros has "Stark blood" (each living being has 2^120 entries in his family tree at that date, which means a lot of duplicates and almost certainly a stark, given that there are more than 0 living starks today). As for "close" cousins, the only information in the show is that there are no other living heirs up to Ned's father (considering bran/rickon/arya/robb/benjen/lyanna/brandon dead and john a bastard in the night's watch). but bran, rickon and arya are not dead at all? As viewers, we know that all three are alive, but almost everyone within the GoT world thinks they're dead.
I suppose the Lannisters might have a hunch Arya could be alive since she escaped them. But as for Bran/Rickon definitely dead.
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I want some goddamned flying Bran soon!!!!
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The Boltons know about Bran and Rickon, right? While being tortured, Theon admitted the two burned bodies were random farmer's boys.
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EPT
