On May 19 2014 15:01 Steveling wrote: Don't know man, Arya Stark is missing and he suddenly meets a well brought up, studied, mannered northern girl and he's like all happy-go-lucky "yeah I'll believe this garbage for an excuse you are telling me".
You didn't say anything about Tyrion btw. He is extremely skilled and Tywin who's supposed to value competence and results shuns him. And he's doing that hoping he will govern through Tommen. But Tywin, get a grip you doddering old fool, you will live for 10 years more max and you will be lucky if you don't go alzheimers meanwhile. So who's next after he dies of old age like the iron bank scene also implied? The batshit crazy Cercei.
I thought we were talking about Stannis. Are you trying to change the subject and avoid my points because defending stannis as a Leader (and im talking about leader as in king, or principal lord - not battle commander) is next to impossible at this point?
1. At that point Tywin thought Arya Stark was held captive in kings landing. Baelish lied to his face and claimed that Tyrion had arranged for an exchange - Sansa and Arya for Jaime.
2. Tywin has recognized Tyrions competence on several occasions, namely when he named him hand of the king and recognized his efforts during the battle of blackwater. The reason he shuns Tyrion is because he is an alcoholic whoremonger wich brings shame on the entire Lannister family. Do you really forget all this so easy?
3. Stannis has no male heir and his daughter has a terminall illness. So even if he managed to take the throne, it would be passed down to Tommens or his son upon his death. He might have a few more years left than Tywin but his wife is already too old to ever grant him an heir so the realm would fall into turmoil after his death.
1. So why would Tywin believe littlefinger of all people? xD
2. Really? Tyrion brings shame to the family because he visits brothels and the sickly disgusting twins don't? And tywin damn knows about them.
3. I don't think that disease is terminal? I think it's a coinflip between just carrying it and being terminal. Anyway, even if it is, Stannis is no bitch, if he has no legit heirs he will gladly give the throne to tommen.
Littlefinger sits on the small council and was sent on an official mission by Tywins son and daughter. Tywin had zero reason to distrust him. He is one of the most skilled players in the series. He is not considered to be a suspect or devious character by anyone at court. That would be varys.
Yes. Remember the conversation between Ros and Tyrion in the first episode? The entire realm has heard of "The Imp" and his decadence. If you know anything about feudal/medieval history you would know how important honour and reputation is, and how having a "Sinner" like Tyrion is a nightmare for a family of the Lannisters standing. Tywin has even commented on this issue on a couple of occasions.
Now let me hear you defend stannis plan to fight renly on the field of battle, aswell as his awful sense of strategy by refusing to make any attempt at forging an alliance. Saying that its "a character flaw" or whatever simply proves my point.
Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
Its not his choice. He cant decide after he is dead. The rest of the realm doesnt believe/care that tommen is inbred. There would be no other option, the other houses would most certainly back Tommen to avoid chaos and an all out war.
why do you keep avoiding my points? just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Oh, and lets talk about Stannis tendency to burn his noble bannermen alive. You know who else had a thing for that, right? Yeah, the mad king. Stannis Baratheon, truly a noble and wise leader.
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Yeah alright, since you say so.
No, since you pretty much cant defend a single one of Stannis actions that i have brought up so far. You have pointed fingers at Robb and called Renly incompetent (incorrect) and brought up JOFFREY to make stannis look better by comparison. And you imply that Tywin should distrust Baelish wich shows just how much you understand the series. Way to go brother.
Im just as invested as you are. The difference is that while i reply to every single one of your "arguments", you simply ignore every point i make and dance around the subject. What you are doing is basicly borderline trolling. Why are you so commited to defending Stannis when you cant come up with a sensible defense for any of his many mistakes, and has to bring up joffrey to make Stannis look good by comparison?
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Yeah alright, since you say so.
No, since you pretty much cant defend a single one of Stannis actions that i have brought up so far. You have pointed fingers at Robb and called Renly incompetent (incorrect) and brought up JOFFREY to make stannis look better by comparison. And you imply that Tywin should distrust Baelish wich shows just how much you understand the series. Way to go brother.
Renly was incompetent, he was basically strutting around playing war with his big ass host, instead of actually winning the throne.
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Yeah alright, since you say so.
No, since you pretty much cant defend a single one of Stannis actions that i have brought up so far. You have pointed fingers at Robb and called Renly incompetent (incorrect) and brought up JOFFREY to make stannis look better by comparison. And you imply that Tywin should distrust Baelish wich shows just how much you understand the series. Way to go brother.
Renly was incompetent, he was basically strutting around playing war with his big ass host, instead of actually winning the throne.
No, Go watch S2 again. Renly and the Tyrells were blocking off the food supplies to Kings Landing to starve out the city. If you read through some history books you will find that this has been a common method of warfare, and naturally a better option than a direct siege since you will largely reduce the amount of casualities when you do decide to finaly strike, and the commoners will greet you as a hero when you finally come and deliver food supplies.
Remember the mob attack on Joffrey after myrcellas departure in S2? that was caused by hunger, and it was Renlys work. It is a brilliant strategy, because the common people will turn on the current leaders out of desperation.
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Yeah alright, since you say so.
No, since you pretty much cant defend a single one of Stannis actions that i have brought up so far. You have pointed fingers at Robb and called Renly incompetent (incorrect) and brought up JOFFREY to make stannis look better by comparison. And you imply that Tywin should distrust Baelish wich shows just how much you understand the series. Way to go brother.
Renly was incompetent, he was basically strutting around playing war with his big ass host, instead of actually winning the throne.
No, Go watch S2 again. Renly and the Tyrells were blocking off the food supplies to Kings Landing to starve out the city. If you read through some history books you will find that this has been a common method of warfare, and naturally a better option than a direct siege since you will largely reduce the amount of casualities when you do decide to finaly strike, and the commoners will greet you as a hero when you finally come and deliver food supplies.
Remember the mob attack on Joffrey after myrcellas departure in S2? that was caused by hunger, and it was Renlys work. It is a brilliant strategy, because the common people will turn on the current leaders out of desperation.
I am not entirely sure, but I don't remember it was ever said Renly blocked the food supply. The way it was depicted in the show it was more the all out war in the Riverlands that caused the mass refugees and the famine.
Renly was definitely shown as completely incompetent in warfare. On screen he was vain, arrogant, and naive. He was sitting around with his huge army holding tournaments and fucking his lover instead of marching on the undefended capital. Ned, Catelyn, Lady Olenna, Jaimie all spoke of him as a fool in a game way over his head - which he was.
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Yeah alright, since you say so.
No, since you pretty much cant defend a single one of Stannis actions that i have brought up so far. You have pointed fingers at Robb and called Renly incompetent (incorrect) and brought up JOFFREY to make stannis look better by comparison. And you imply that Tywin should distrust Baelish wich shows just how much you understand the series. Way to go brother.
Renly was incompetent, he was basically strutting around playing war with his big ass host, instead of actually winning the throne.
No, Go watch S2 again. Renly and the Tyrells were blocking off the food supplies to Kings Landing to starve out the city. If you read through some history books you will find that this has been a common method of warfare, and naturally a better option than a direct siege since you will largely reduce the amount of casualities when you do decide to finaly strike, and the commoners will greet you as a hero when you finally come and deliver food supplies.
Remember the mob attack on Joffrey after myrcellas departure in S2? that was caused by hunger, and it was Renlys work. It is a brilliant strategy, because the common people will turn on the current leaders out of desperation.
I am not entirely sure, but I don't remember it was ever said Renly blocked the food supply. The way it was depicted in the show it was more the all out war in the Riverlands that caused the mass refugees and the famine.
Renly was definitely shown as completely incompetent in warfare. On screen he was vain, arrogant, and naive. He was sitting around with his huge army holding tournaments and fucking his lover instead of marching on the undefended capital. Ned, Catelyn, Lady Olenna, Jaimie all spoke of him as a fool in a game way over his head - which he was.
It was mentioned.
If you go back and watch the episode were Cat first meets with Renly, You will notice that Loras starts of by asking her if Robb has Marched on Tywin yet. This strongly implies that The Tyrell/Baratheon host is were not aware of the current location of the Lannister Host, and if the capital was undefended. waiting for the right moment to strike, aka when the Lannister Forces are busy fighting off the Starks so that Renly can take Kings Landing without facing the entire westerlands host garrisoned behind its walls. I assume that i dont have to explain the concept of a multipronged attack on a Starcraft messageboard.
And as you might notice, Renly had another reason to remain in the stormlands. He was to meet up with Stannis and settle things. But after making the pact with Cat, I believe Renly openly states that he will march on kings landing after the Battle with Stannis the day after, knowing that he now had the starks on his side and that they are keeping Tywin Lannister occupied.
This is all open to a bit of interpretation but there is really nothing that backs up the claim that Renly was just biding his time. Nor can you claim that he was incompetent since he managed to convince both the Stormlands and Reach to fight for him, and strike an Alliance with the North. This proves that he at least had a good mind for politics and diplomancy, and the fact that he made the Starks swear the same oath to him that Ned made to Robert, while at the same time allowing robb to call himself the king in the north shows that he was far from naive.
If it wasnt for the cheap shadow assasin thing, i think its safe to assume that Renly would have come out victorious in the War of the Five Kings. At the time, Joffrey had only Tywins army backing him, and i dont think the bannermen sworn to Casterly Rock would have been nearly enough to hold of the Stark, Tyrell and Baratheon Hosts.
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Yeah alright, since you say so.
No, since you pretty much cant defend a single one of Stannis actions that i have brought up so far. You have pointed fingers at Robb and called Renly incompetent (incorrect) and brought up JOFFREY to make stannis look better by comparison. And you imply that Tywin should distrust Baelish wich shows just how much you understand the series. Way to go brother.
Renly was incompetent, he was basically strutting around playing war with his big ass host, instead of actually winning the throne.
No, Go watch S2 again. Renly and the Tyrells were blocking off the food supplies to Kings Landing to starve out the city. If you read through some history books you will find that this has been a common method of warfare, and naturally a better option than a direct siege since you will largely reduce the amount of casualities when you do decide to finaly strike, and the commoners will greet you as a hero when you finally come and deliver food supplies.
Remember the mob attack on Joffrey after myrcellas departure in S2? that was caused by hunger, and it was Renlys work. It is a brilliant strategy, because the common people will turn on the current leaders out of desperation.
"Go read some history books". Yeah I don't want to discuss with you.
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Yeah alright, since you say so.
No, since you pretty much cant defend a single one of Stannis actions that i have brought up so far. You have pointed fingers at Robb and called Renly incompetent (incorrect) and brought up JOFFREY to make stannis look better by comparison. And you imply that Tywin should distrust Baelish wich shows just how much you understand the series. Way to go brother.
Renly was incompetent, he was basically strutting around playing war with his big ass host, instead of actually winning the throne.
No, Go watch S2 again. Renly and the Tyrells were blocking off the food supplies to Kings Landing to starve out the city. If you read through some history books you will find that this has been a common method of warfare, and naturally a better option than a direct siege since you will largely reduce the amount of casualities when you do decide to finaly strike, and the commoners will greet you as a hero when you finally come and deliver food supplies.
Remember the mob attack on Joffrey after myrcellas departure in S2? that was caused by hunger, and it was Renlys work. It is a brilliant strategy, because the common people will turn on the current leaders out of desperation.
I am not entirely sure, but I don't remember it was ever said Renly blocked the food supply. The way it was depicted in the show it was more the all out war in the Riverlands that caused the mass refugees and the famine.
Renly was definitely shown as completely incompetent in warfare. On screen he was vain, arrogant, and naive. He was sitting around with his huge army holding tournaments and fucking his lover instead of marching on the undefended capital. Ned, Catelyn, Lady Olenna, Jaimie all spoke of him as a fool in a game way over his head - which he was.
It was mentioned.
If you go back and watch the episode were Cat first meets with Renly, You will notice that Loras starts of by asking her if Robb has Marched on Tywin yet. This strongly implies that The Tyrell/Baratheon host is waiting for the right moment to strike, aka when the Lannister Forces are busy fighting off the Starks so that Renly can take Kings Landing without facing the entire westerlands host garrisoned behind its walls. I assume that i dont have to explain the concept of a multipronged attack on a Starcraft messageboard.
And as you might notice, Renly had another reason to remain in the stormlands. He was to meet up with Stannis and settle things. But after making the pact with Cat, I believe Renly openly states that he will march on kings landing after the Battle with Stannis the day after, knowing that he now had the starks on his side and that they are keeping Tywin Lannister occupied.
This is all open to a bit of interpretation but there is really nothing that backs up the claim that Renly was just biding his time. Nor can you claim that he was incompetent since he managed to convince both the Stormlands and Reach to fight for him, and strike an Alliance with the North. This proves that he at least had a good mind for politics and diplomancy, and the fact that he made the Starks swear the same oath to him that Ned made to Robert, while at the same time allowing robb to call himself the king in the north shows that he was far from naive.
If it wasnt for the cheap shadow assasin thing, i think its safe to assume that Renly would have come out victorious in the War of the Five Kings. At the time, Joffrey had only Tywins army backing him, and i dont think the bannermen sworn to Casterly Rock would have been nearly enough to hold of the Stark, Tyrell and Baratheon Hosts.
The Reach was Loras' doing more than anything. I agree with the Stormlands though.
On May 19 2014 15:43 Steveling wrote: Btw what was that about Tommen, it was so stupid that I didn't think this through, lol. Why the fuck would Stannis accept Tommen since he knows he's a bastard inbred?
just give it up. Stannis is portrayed as a stubborn man terrible at politics and a very incompetent leader when it comes to strategy.
Yeah alright, since you say so.
No, since you pretty much cant defend a single one of Stannis actions that i have brought up so far. You have pointed fingers at Robb and called Renly incompetent (incorrect) and brought up JOFFREY to make stannis look better by comparison. And you imply that Tywin should distrust Baelish wich shows just how much you understand the series. Way to go brother.
Renly was incompetent, he was basically strutting around playing war with his big ass host, instead of actually winning the throne.
No, Go watch S2 again. Renly and the Tyrells were blocking off the food supplies to Kings Landing to starve out the city. If you read through some history books you will find that this has been a common method of warfare, and naturally a better option than a direct siege since you will largely reduce the amount of casualities when you do decide to finaly strike, and the commoners will greet you as a hero when you finally come and deliver food supplies.
Remember the mob attack on Joffrey after myrcellas departure in S2? that was caused by hunger, and it was Renlys work. It is a brilliant strategy, because the common people will turn on the current leaders out of desperation.
"Go read some history books". Yeah I don't want to discuss with you.
I didnt mean to come of as arrogant, i just wanted to make a point that this form of siege based on slowy starving and weakening your enemy from a relative distance before you deal the final blow has been a common and often succesfull strategy through history, especially during sieges against well fortified capitol cities.
EPT
