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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 23 2014 18:50 Scorch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 18:37 FrogOfWar wrote:On April 23 2014 18:31 Nesserev wrote:
Inbefore Tommen has a thing for combining crossbows and hookers in the bedroom, just like his older brother, lol.
I think Tommen will remain a minor character, that gets a bit of screen time every once in a while to remind people of his existence. He's still way too young to be king, and by the nature of this show, by the time he is old enough, GOT has probably already ended. One thing I didn't quite understand about Tywin's speech is that he said Tommen should follow his advisers until he comes of age, while I thought that until he comes of age, there should be a temporary regent (Cersei?) or protector of the realm in power anyway. Or was it just Robert's will that Joffrey shouldn't rule while underaged, not law? I guess Cersei will be Queen Regent again, but Tywin has her under control anyway. I thought it was quite obvious that Tywin wanted to gain influence over Tommen. Tommen should always follow his advisors' guidance now and even after he comes of age. With Tywin being the most important advisor of course. I'd normally expect more subtlety from Tywin, but perhaps that's not necessary with a little kid like Tommen.
Of course, that Tywin wants to make sure he can control the boy was obvious. I was just wondering what the procedure is, what the law is, whether an underaged king is possible. If he isn't going to rule for four years or so I would find it odd if he had any "advisers" until then. Advisers are for decision-making, but in this case he won't be making any decisions. I'd rather expect him to have teachers.
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On April 24 2014 17:57 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now. Let's say the Iron Bank does comply and gives Stannis the money. If Stannis then defeats the Iron Throne, the bank won't have any chance to get the money back the Iron Throne is owing the bank. Thus, for the bank it would make more sense not to give the money to Stannis.
Well if the current king is not paying than they have a better chance to get money from Stannis if he wins. And the depts are not bound to a person or group but to the whole kingdom, so the depts wont disappear if the lannisters/tyrell lose.
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On April 24 2014 18:11 Nahsom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 17:57 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now. Let's say the Iron Bank does comply and gives Stannis the money. If Stannis then defeats the Iron Throne, the bank won't have any chance to get the money back the Iron Throne is owing the bank. Thus, for the bank it would make more sense not to give the money to Stannis. Well if the current king is not paying than they have a better chance to get money from Stannis if he wins. And the depts are not bound to a person or group but to the whole kingdom, so the depts wont disappear if the lannisters/tyrell lose.
Well, no matter who wins the war, no one has money to pay back the debts.
Especially after a war when the war chests are empty.
If Stannis wins the war, he's gonna have the debts for the troops plus the debts of the Iron Throne.
Since the Lannisters likely get financial support from the Tyrells, the Iron Bank should make sure the Lannisters don't get defeated, by not giving money to Stannis
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On April 24 2014 19:23 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 18:11 Nahsom wrote:On April 24 2014 17:57 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now. Let's say the Iron Bank does comply and gives Stannis the money. If Stannis then defeats the Iron Throne, the bank won't have any chance to get the money back the Iron Throne is owing the bank. Thus, for the bank it would make more sense not to give the money to Stannis. Well if the current king is not paying than they have a better chance to get money from Stannis if he wins. And the depts are not bound to a person or group but to the whole kingdom, so the depts wont disappear if the lannisters/tyrell lose. Well, no matter who wins the war, no one has money to pay back the debts. Especially after a war when the war chests are empty. If Stannis wins the war, he's gonna have the debts for the troops plus the debts of the Iron Throne. Since the Lannisters likely get financial support from the Tyrells, the Iron Bank should make sure the Lannisters don't get defeated, by not giving money to Stannis
Lannisters are the most wealthy family in Westeros. If Stannis wins and sacks Lannister lands he gets all their wealth and can repay all debts. Tyrells have most food and that is the support they give.
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On April 24 2014 19:56 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 19:23 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 18:11 Nahsom wrote:On April 24 2014 17:57 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now. Let's say the Iron Bank does comply and gives Stannis the money. If Stannis then defeats the Iron Throne, the bank won't have any chance to get the money back the Iron Throne is owing the bank. Thus, for the bank it would make more sense not to give the money to Stannis. Well if the current king is not paying than they have a better chance to get money from Stannis if he wins. And the depts are not bound to a person or group but to the whole kingdom, so the depts wont disappear if the lannisters/tyrell lose. Well, no matter who wins the war, no one has money to pay back the debts. Especially after a war when the war chests are empty. If Stannis wins the war, he's gonna have the debts for the troops plus the debts of the Iron Throne. Since the Lannisters likely get financial support from the Tyrells, the Iron Bank should make sure the Lannisters don't get defeated, by not giving money to Stannis Lannisters are the most wealthy family in Westeros. If Stannis wins and sacks Lannister lands he gets all their wealth and can repay all debts. Tyrells have most food and that is the support they give.
Are you saying that food is the main resource available to the Tyrells? IIRC they have one of the biggest armies in Westeros; wasnt the Renly+Tyrell army supposed the biggest by quite a margin?
Also lets not forget that the Tyrells are the 2nd richest house, as Cersei and Margaery once discussed.
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On April 24 2014 20:19 Mafe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 19:56 -Archangel- wrote:On April 24 2014 19:23 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 18:11 Nahsom wrote:On April 24 2014 17:57 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now. Let's say the Iron Bank does comply and gives Stannis the money. If Stannis then defeats the Iron Throne, the bank won't have any chance to get the money back the Iron Throne is owing the bank. Thus, for the bank it would make more sense not to give the money to Stannis. Well if the current king is not paying than they have a better chance to get money from Stannis if he wins. And the depts are not bound to a person or group but to the whole kingdom, so the depts wont disappear if the lannisters/tyrell lose. Well, no matter who wins the war, no one has money to pay back the debts. Especially after a war when the war chests are empty. If Stannis wins the war, he's gonna have the debts for the troops plus the debts of the Iron Throne. Since the Lannisters likely get financial support from the Tyrells, the Iron Bank should make sure the Lannisters don't get defeated, by not giving money to Stannis Lannisters are the most wealthy family in Westeros. If Stannis wins and sacks Lannister lands he gets all their wealth and can repay all debts. Tyrells have most food and that is the support they give. Are you saying that food is the main resource available to the Tyrells? IIRC they have one of the biggest armies in Westeros; wasnt the Renly+Tyrell army supposed the biggest by quite a margin? Also lets not forget that the Tyrells are the 2nd richest house, as Cersei and Margaery once discussed.
Yes, but those armies will not fight battles for Lannisters, they will only not fight against Lannisters (well except for Blackwater battle). But food is what King's Landing needs every day and will need it in future more than troops. And food is what Tyrells are #1 in. Yes they can sell food for money, but Lannisters have gold mines which are considered money itself.
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On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now.
Is there a precedence for this in medieval times? I know GRRM bases many elements of his story on actual historical events.
I don't know.. the economics of this sounds very modern to me.
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On April 24 2014 21:51 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 20:19 Mafe wrote:On April 24 2014 19:56 -Archangel- wrote:On April 24 2014 19:23 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 18:11 Nahsom wrote:On April 24 2014 17:57 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now. Let's say the Iron Bank does comply and gives Stannis the money. If Stannis then defeats the Iron Throne, the bank won't have any chance to get the money back the Iron Throne is owing the bank. Thus, for the bank it would make more sense not to give the money to Stannis. Well if the current king is not paying than they have a better chance to get money from Stannis if he wins. And the depts are not bound to a person or group but to the whole kingdom, so the depts wont disappear if the lannisters/tyrell lose. Well, no matter who wins the war, no one has money to pay back the debts. Especially after a war when the war chests are empty. If Stannis wins the war, he's gonna have the debts for the troops plus the debts of the Iron Throne. Since the Lannisters likely get financial support from the Tyrells, the Iron Bank should make sure the Lannisters don't get defeated, by not giving money to Stannis Lannisters are the most wealthy family in Westeros. If Stannis wins and sacks Lannister lands he gets all their wealth and can repay all debts. Tyrells have most food and that is the support they give. Are you saying that food is the main resource available to the Tyrells? IIRC they have one of the biggest armies in Westeros; wasnt the Renly+Tyrell army supposed the biggest by quite a margin? Also lets not forget that the Tyrells are the 2nd richest house, as Cersei and Margaery once discussed. Yes, but those armies will not fight battles for Lannisters, they will only not fight against Lannisters (well except for Blackwater battle). But food is what King's Landing needs every day and will need it in future more than troops. And food is what Tyrells are #1 in. Yes they can sell food for money, but Lannisters have gold mines which are considered money itself.
Don't make predictions if you're also posting on the book thread!
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Some thoughts on the controversial sex scene with Jaime and Cersei
At this point, alot, if not most people, likes Jaime. In the beginning he was kinda one of the bad guys (cripling Brann, fighting Ned, killed random people and own family members), but around where he lost his hand, he became alot more sympathetic. Cersei on the other hand, most people HATE (with good reasons).
I feel like the series is trying to tone down the Good vs Evil that fans always will make. Jaime isn't our Hero (no hero at all infact), Cersei isn't (JUST) an evil woman, but a person, who just lost her son and (most of) her power. But i can fully understand the complains (altough she could have just kicked him in the balls, not much he can do with a damn gold hand lol)
Also, remember the first episode? (Episode 1) There Jaime and Cersei had sex, got exposed by Brann, and Jaime tries to kill a child ("The things i do for love"). Now in episode 33, they once again have sex, in a room with a dead child (their own son). Very symbolic repeating of history, that's why GRRM is the best :D
Oh speaking of Joffrey: Super nice detail with Tywin learing Tommen about wisdom, if you remember what Joffrey spoke of "Wisdom" (almost like he was quoting something Tywin taught him) right before he goes child-crazy and destroys the book and showing (for the last time) that he was a king with no wisdom. Love it
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On April 24 2014 17:57 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now. Let's say the Iron Bank does comply and gives Stannis the money. If Stannis then defeats the Iron Throne, the bank won't have any chance to get the money back the Iron Throne is owing the bank. Thus, for the bank it would make more sense not to give the money to Stannis.
No that's not how it probably works.
Stannis ask bank for help
Bank has a colossal debt to get back from Iron throne
Bank agrees with Stannis and lend Money or Soldiers
In exchange Stannis must repay the debt once king or a part of the debt.
It also sends a message to other clients of the Bank.
Obviously in that scenario Stannis may also refuse to fulfill his end of the contract but maybe the loan is a lot less than how much the Iron Throne owes and therefore it's a worthy risk and/or the Bank has additional leverages in case Stannis betrays the Bank (like the mercenaries being owned by the Bank rather than Stannis).
And maybe even the message that it sends "If you don't pay back we'll finance your enemies" may be worth it just by itself.
I don't know if there is an historical precedent, would be interesting to know.
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Is it like today that they have huge debt, but pay their obligations? Or is it that they are just not paying?
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On April 24 2014 22:58 SmoKim wrote:
Also, remember the first episode? (Episode 1) There Jaime and Cersei had sex, got exposed by Brann, and Jaime tries to kill a child ("The things i do for love"). Now in episode 33, they once again have sex, in a room with a dead child (their own son). Very symbolic repeating of history, that's why GRRM is the best :D
You can't really credit GRRM with that scene since he didn't write it.
You can see his reaction to the scene here: http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/21/george-r-r-martin-thrones-rape/
There are no spoilers, just a discussion of how the show changed that particular scene for TV.
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He doesn't give his reaction he just explains the difference with the book.
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He does give his reaction in addition to going over the changes the show made. He says + Show Spoiler +"The scene was always intended to be disturbing… but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.”
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On April 24 2014 23:51 karazax wrote:He does give his reaction in addition to going over the changes the show made. He says + Show Spoiler +"The scene was always intended to be disturbing… but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.”
Sorry to be a pain in the ass :D but I still don't see how it's his reaction to the scene. He just say what the intent of the scene was not how he felt watching it (or reacted). You could say his blog is his reaction to the debate however.
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On April 24 2014 22:21 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 21:51 -Archangel- wrote:On April 24 2014 20:19 Mafe wrote:On April 24 2014 19:56 -Archangel- wrote:On April 24 2014 19:23 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 18:11 Nahsom wrote:On April 24 2014 17:57 urboss wrote:On April 24 2014 17:35 Emnjay808 wrote:On April 24 2014 17:28 kamicom wrote:
Can someone explain to a dumb ass like me what Ser Davos' epiphany was when he was telling Stannis' daughter about the difference between smugglers and pirates? I think something like the 7 Kingdoms is in debt to the Ironbank by several millions of gold. So they would be more likely to aid Stannis in defeating them. Theyre basically looking to hire mercenaries to fight the war for them now. Let's say the Iron Bank does comply and gives Stannis the money. If Stannis then defeats the Iron Throne, the bank won't have any chance to get the money back the Iron Throne is owing the bank. Thus, for the bank it would make more sense not to give the money to Stannis. Well if the current king is not paying than they have a better chance to get money from Stannis if he wins. And the depts are not bound to a person or group but to the whole kingdom, so the depts wont disappear if the lannisters/tyrell lose. Well, no matter who wins the war, no one has money to pay back the debts. Especially after a war when the war chests are empty. If Stannis wins the war, he's gonna have the debts for the troops plus the debts of the Iron Throne. Since the Lannisters likely get financial support from the Tyrells, the Iron Bank should make sure the Lannisters don't get defeated, by not giving money to Stannis Lannisters are the most wealthy family in Westeros. If Stannis wins and sacks Lannister lands he gets all their wealth and can repay all debts. Tyrells have most food and that is the support they give. Are you saying that food is the main resource available to the Tyrells? IIRC they have one of the biggest armies in Westeros; wasnt the Renly+Tyrell army supposed the biggest by quite a margin? Also lets not forget that the Tyrells are the 2nd richest house, as Cersei and Margaery once discussed. Yes, but those armies will not fight battles for Lannisters, they will only not fight against Lannisters (well except for Blackwater battle). But food is what King's Landing needs every day and will need it in future more than troops. And food is what Tyrells are #1 in. Yes they can sell food for money, but Lannisters have gold mines which are considered money itself. Don't make predictions if you're also posting on the book thread!
These are not predictions lol. I am talking about current state of affairs (current as in last episode) based on common knowledge about these two great houses based on TV show and HBO videos.
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On April 25 2014 00:29 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 23:51 karazax wrote:He does give his reaction in addition to going over the changes the show made. He says + Show Spoiler +"The scene was always intended to be disturbing… but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.” Sorry to be a pain in the ass :D but I still don't see how it's his reaction to the scene. He just say what the intent of the scene was not how he felt watching it (or reacted). You could say his blog is his reaction to the debate however.
I suppose you could look at it that way, but the title of the article is George R.R. Martin reacts to 'Thrones' adding rape scene which is why I labeled it as such.
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when tywin questioned the tommen about what he would choose between a family with a lot of foods and the one with a huge fleet, he was refering to the tyrell and the greyjoy ?
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EPT
