On December 11 2009 14:08 .risingdragoon wrote: I dunno why you guys feel the need to rationalize it like it's real. I read a few books and the story's okay, makes enough sense. Just go wit it.
I've always loved dragonball (ppl eat, sleep, take dumps, it's got a lot of humor, a lot of creativity to the designs, etc.), not so much DBZ though. Naruto seems to be doing aight with the "going up in power really fast" problem.
lol just read the new chap, thought it was gross, that's about it.
eh it's not the realism that gets to me at least.. it's the sharingan this, sharingan that factor that makes me want to laugh at how bad the manga has become
like 4/5 of the more important character's atm all have the sharingan.. excluding naruto of course there's Sasuke, Madara the main villain and basically the only Akatsuki left of importance, Danzo who is Sasuke's villain, and Kakashi who's obviously got a bigger role now as "hokage" but also Naruto's teacher.
I dunno why you guys feel the need to rationalize it like it's real. I read a few books and the story's okay, makes enough sense. Just go wit it.
I've always loved dragonball (ppl eat, sleep, take dumps, it's got a lot of humor, a lot of creativity to the designs, etc.), not so much DBZ though. Naruto seems to be doing aight with the "going up in power really fast" problem.
lol just read the new chap, thought it was gross, that's about it.
Realism != logic. There are certain conclusions that must follow based on premises that were set from the start. If Sasuke's little above average chakra pool limits him to use chidori only three times then he shouldn't be able to use it more than three times (Unless something new is introduced that increases his chakra pool, like the cursed seal). It's not that people are arguing about the realism of the manga. It's all the plot holes, inconsistencies and lazy writing that people are upset about. Take pein for instance.
Are you telling us that Pein had not taken into account what Naruto had told him in the 20+ years he's been alive? No one's ever told him that? It took a five minute conversation with Naruto to change his deep seated, unshakeable convinctions about the ninja world and life? Really?? And we know why that is so....Because the author wanted to revive all the ninjas who were lost in the battle against pein. This is insulting to the reader. It's the equivalent of a dream sequence. All the events that took place in the past 20 chapters become meaningless.
On December 11 2009 14:08 .risingdragoon wrote: I dunno why you guys feel the need to rationalize it like it's real. I read a few books and the story's okay, makes enough sense. Just go wit it.
I've always loved dragonball (ppl eat, sleep, take dumps, it's got a lot of humor, a lot of creativity to the designs, etc.), not so much DBZ though. Naruto seems to be doing aight with the "going up in power really fast" problem.
lol just read the new chap, thought it was gross, that's about it.
eh it's not the realism that gets to me at least.. it's the sharingan this, sharingan that factor that makes me want to laugh at how bad the manga has become
like 4/5 of the more important character's atm all have the sharingan.. excluding naruto of course there's Sasuke, Madara the main villain and basically the only Akatsuki left of importance, Danzo who is Sasuke's villain, and Kakashi who's obviously got a bigger role now as "hokage" but also Naruto's teacher.
maybe because its been elaborated that the sharingan eye is unique and special and that its already been spelled out that it sharingan basically = conflict in the world of the naruto. you know, the part where the older son got pissed off for not being named heir? why are you shocked that the major players in the plot have it?
i cant believe people are still twisting their nuts over sharingan being so omnipresent.
I dont think the manga is bad. Its just that this part of the storyline revolves around the uchiha, Sasuke etc. So right now the Uchiha survivors and the treason that happened is the main plotline. This is why we are seeing so many sharingans right now. Once Danzo and Madara are dead it wont be so much about the sharingan anymore.
Atleast this is what i hope. Since Sasuke will be the only person with the sharingan it will play a much smaller role.
On December 11 2009 14:08 .risingdragoon wrote: I dunno why you guys feel the need to rationalize it like it's real. I read a few books and the story's okay, makes enough sense. Just go wit it.
I've always loved dragonball (ppl eat, sleep, take dumps, it's got a lot of humor, a lot of creativity to the designs, etc.), not so much DBZ though. Naruto seems to be doing aight with the "going up in power really fast" problem.
lol just read the new chap, thought it was gross, that's about it.
eh it's not the realism that gets to me at least.. it's the sharingan this, sharingan that factor that makes me want to laugh at how bad the manga has become
like 4/5 of the more important character's atm all have the sharingan.. excluding naruto of course there's Sasuke, Madara the main villain and basically the only Akatsuki left of importance, Danzo who is Sasuke's villain, and Kakashi who's obviously got a bigger role now as "hokage" but also Naruto's teacher.
maybe because its been elaborated that the sharingan eye is unique and special and that its already been spelled out that it sharingan basically = conflict in the world of the naruto. you know, the part where the older son got pissed off for not being named heir? why are you shocked that the major players in the plot have it?
i cant believe people are still twisting their nuts over sharingan being so omnipresent.
You want to know why?
The manga used to be creative. Now it's SHARINGAN this and SHARINGAN that with zero variation in between. The only other unique thing these days is sage mode and we haven't seen that since the Pain fight.
I like how you say the sharingan eye is unique and special and in the same post state that the sharingan is omnipresent. How the hell is something unique while being omnipresent? :/
the sharingan has been at the center of naruto since the very beginning orochimaru wanted it kakashi had it sasuke had it itachi had it it was linked to the tailed beasts
naruto was always largely about the sharingan so i don't see wtf people are complaining about in fact, in conjunction with the tailed beasts the sharingan is the basis for the entire story
people act like every character has it because 4 living characters currently have it. 4 characters. oh no, everything is about the sharingan
On December 11 2009 14:08 .risingdragoon wrote: I dunno why you guys feel the need to rationalize it like it's real. I read a few books and the story's okay, makes enough sense. Just go wit it.
I've always loved dragonball (ppl eat, sleep, take dumps, it's got a lot of humor, a lot of creativity to the designs, etc.), not so much DBZ though. Naruto seems to be doing aight with the "going up in power really fast" problem.
lol just read the new chap, thought it was gross, that's about it.
eh it's not the realism that gets to me at least.. it's the sharingan this, sharingan that factor that makes me want to laugh at how bad the manga has become
like 4/5 of the more important character's atm all have the sharingan.. excluding naruto of course there's Sasuke, Madara the main villain and basically the only Akatsuki left of importance, Danzo who is Sasuke's villain, and Kakashi who's obviously got a bigger role now as "hokage" but also Naruto's teacher.
maybe because its been elaborated that the sharingan eye is unique and special and that its already been spelled out that it sharingan basically = conflict in the world of the naruto. you know, the part where the older son got pissed off for not being named heir? why are you shocked that the major players in the plot have it?
i cant believe people are still twisting their nuts over sharingan being so omnipresent.
You want to know why?
The manga used to be creative. Now it's SHARINGAN this and SHARINGAN that with zero variation in between. The only other unique thing these days is sage mode and we haven't seen that since the Pain fight.
I like how you say the sharingan eye is unique and special and in the same post state that the sharingan is omnipresent. How the hell is something unique while being omnipresent? :/
Why do u dislike sharingan so much ? O_O
Anyways he didn`t state sharingan is omnipresent, he said people are are saying so.
It isn`t omnipresent in Naruto world , about 4 persons posses it . As this eye is special and unique , the plot is concentrating on this, what is special and unique . Why would it concentrate on trivial and average matters ?
Sharingan arm , you freak so much about it - well its controversial but it fits well with the plot.
I think if any time skip does happen itll be after sasukes death, Oh yeah thats right. We can think of each time skip as one main theme with many little arcs inside it. If we take out the first naruto (everything before shippuuden) its been about sasuke the entire time. I think this time skip/ arc will end with a clash between naruto and sasuke at the valley of the kings. Just like it ended last time, its gonna end this time too.
I dont mind all the sharingan shit but it is getting tired. no reason to rage though. And what i dont get is people are complaining about how pain brought all the useless ninjas back. Well thats just it, they were useless so either alive or dead doesnt really matter, they arnt important quit bustin your nuts over it. in my opinion the naruto vs pain was one of my favorite fights in the manga thus far.
But you guys just complain how it ends and skip the awesome fight. but then if a fights bad you tear it apart for ending dumb. Meh /rant
On December 11 2009 14:08 .risingdragoon wrote: I dunno why you guys feel the need to rationalize it like it's real. I read a few books and the story's okay, makes enough sense. Just go wit it.
I've always loved dragonball (ppl eat, sleep, take dumps, it's got a lot of humor, a lot of creativity to the designs, etc.), not so much DBZ though. Naruto seems to be doing aight with the "going up in power really fast" problem.
lol just read the new chap, thought it was gross, that's about it.
eh it's not the realism that gets to me at least.. it's the sharingan this, sharingan that factor that makes me want to laugh at how bad the manga has become
like 4/5 of the more important character's atm all have the sharingan.. excluding naruto of course there's Sasuke, Madara the main villain and basically the only Akatsuki left of importance, Danzo who is Sasuke's villain, and Kakashi who's obviously got a bigger role now as "hokage" but also Naruto's teacher.
maybe because its been elaborated that the sharingan eye is unique and special and that its already been spelled out that it sharingan basically = conflict in the world of the naruto. you know, the part where the older son got pissed off for not being named heir? why are you shocked that the major players in the plot have it?
i cant believe people are still twisting their nuts over sharingan being so omnipresent.
You want to know why?
The manga used to be creative. Now it's SHARINGAN this and SHARINGAN that with zero variation in between. The only other unique thing these days is sage mode and we haven't seen that since the Pain fight.
I like how you say the sharingan eye is unique and special and in the same post state that the sharingan is omnipresent. How the hell is something unique while being omnipresent? :/
you lack the ability to read between the lines so let me spell it out for you.
the sharingan is unique and special. the underlying assumption here, which you failed to note, is it's unique and special in the naruto WORLD.
Only important characters have it. Important characters drive the story forward. In a manga, important characters are omnipresent, another tidbit you lost in your myopic attempt to prove me wrong.
Antagonists are important characters. Do you see where Im going with this?
The manga is converging on an important climax and a lot has been revealed in the past year about the true significance of the sharingan (if it hasnt already all been said). all the background abilities like the bugs and various kekkei genkais are getting swiped out of the way, because in the manga of naruto these are small fry to the eye techs. approaching the sharingan as a deux ex of an unimaginative kishimoto is going to lead to a lot of frustration. its been explained and intimated NUMEROUS times that this is a defining power and will be a major source of contention for the story until this arc (or even manga) is over.
Right, so instead of developing characters from the scratch, we'll toss in people and randomly stuff 20 sharingans on his arm. You can say whatever you want, but in the end you are just trying to rationalize this pile of crap. Fits well with the plot? Sure, it does, except it is just something thrown in there. Perhaps if we were told that Uchiha corpses got their eyes gouged out or anything along those lines we'd start to think that there would be something of this nature, but no. We just randomly have Danzo pop out of nowhere all obsessed with the Sharingan and, randomly, has a collection of it. What is it short of an unimaginative Kishimoto pulling things out of his arse? Read between the lines? Come on. Let's take Harry Potter, we are not about to praise Rowling for having the three hallows when we've seen one of them for the whole series without any explanation on how special it is. By the way, it is so special that someone's magical eye, something that appears to be pretty commonplace, can just see through it. Sure, Harry is special, so we'll give him some legendary item and mask it under a sea of mediocrity. This is the problem that I am having with the sharingan mess right now. We can certainly say that in the vaguest sense of development, Kishimoto has properly explained everything, but that's nothing more than excuses for how far he has to stretch things for there to even be a semblance of coherence.
I'll argue against the Sharingan only for the mere fact that it has too many abilities. We are at the part of the manga where the Sharingan is basically fully evolved. It's basically the doujutsu that does everything. It can mimic movement, see chakra flow, copy techniques, see at the microscopic level. Then we get to the Mangekyou Sharingan stuff with Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, and Susanoo. Let's not forget there's Kakashi's Kamui technique. I just want some bounds to Sharingan. I thought the loss of eyesight was a nice touch, but that was easily remedied through taking other Uchiha eyes.
I'm just at the point where I wish there was a bit less Sharingan. Note that I did not say no Sharingan. I know this won't happen because of the huge focus on Madara and Sasuke lately.
Personally, I wish there was more of the Rinnegan and Byakugan.
Well, omnipotence from the Sharingan isn't that unexpected, something like that I can buy even if I dislike it. The character importance argument works perfectly fine here. We need Madara and Sasuke to be important, we toss random abilities on the Sharingan because these people can't be bothered to train normally like our talentless Naruto. We need signs of genius and innate ability? Let's toss more things on the Sharingan. It'd be nice to see variations, but that's highly unlikely.
On December 12 2009 03:17 Ecael wrote: Right, so instead of developing characters from the scratch, we'll toss in people and randomly stuff 20 sharingans on his arm. You can say whatever you want, but in the end you are just trying to rationalize this pile of crap. Fits well with the plot? Sure, it does, except it is just something thrown in there. Perhaps if we were told that Uchiha corpses got their eyes gouged out or anything along those lines we'd start to think that there would be something of this nature, but no. We just randomly have Danzo pop out of nowhere all obsessed with the Sharingan and, randomly, has a collection of it. What is it short of an unimaginative Kishimoto pulling things out of his arse? Read between the lines? Come on. Let's take Harry Potter, we are not about to praise Rowling for having the three hallows when we've seen one of them for the whole series without any explanation on how special it is. By the way, it is so special that someone's magical eye, something that appears to be pretty commonplace, can just see through it. Sure, Harry is special, so we'll give him some legendary item and mask it under a sea of mediocrity. This is the problem that I am having with the sharingan mess right now. We can certainly say that in the vaguest sense of development, Kishimoto has properly explained everything, but that's nothing more than excuses for how far he has to stretch things for there to even be a semblance of coherence.
First, I rationalize the presence of the sharingan for people who get worked up over an internally consistent plot device. Also, the read between the lines thing was over the use of omnipresence and special. It was explained in my last post; kindly read it again.
Secondly, if you have beef with the idea of implanting a bunch of eyes into your arm thats one thing, but for you to say "Danzo pop out of nowhere all obsessed with the Sharingan", well, you havent been reading the goddamn story. By the way, in case you didnt know Danzo - who happens to be power hungry, keep that in mind! - was behind the plot to destroy the Uchihas, and word has it the Sharingan is pretty strong.
Im going to ignore your Harry Potter reference, because it reeks of stupid.
On December 12 2009 03:24 Ecael wrote: Well, omnipotence from the Sharingan isn't that unexpected, something like that I can buy even if I dislike it. The character importance argument works perfectly fine here. .
What? You went from complaining about the "sharingan mess" to being understanding about its omnipotence? If you can accept that an eye technique that has been around since the beginning of the manga has been elevated to divine powers, what exactly do you have to complain about?
On December 12 2009 04:25 L wrote: In this thread we complain about the story of a ninja cartoon because we don't like the fact that some characters can do ninja magic.
There are a lot of other better manga out there for those of you who complains so much. Just stop reading Naruto if you feel that it is not up to your intellectual standard.
On December 12 2009 04:49 Avius wrote: i still dont understand what eyes in the arm can do for you :D mass genjutsu or something?
Hypothetically yea? I mean if you look into a sharingan then you get caught in the genjutsu, and if they have MS then that is even more dangerous. Also, it means you can't look at his right arm, which is Shisui's arm, which means that Danzou DOES have Uchiha DNA in him now (unlike Kakashi, which is a weakness Itachi and Kakashi both referenced often), so the likelihood of some dangerous shit coming from that very arm is very high.
On December 12 2009 03:17 Ecael wrote: Right, so instead of developing characters from the scratch, we'll toss in people and randomly stuff 20 sharingans on his arm. You can say whatever you want, but in the end you are just trying to rationalize this pile of crap. Fits well with the plot? Sure, it does, except it is just something thrown in there. Perhaps if we were told that Uchiha corpses got their eyes gouged out or anything along those lines we'd start to think that there would be something of this nature, but no. We just randomly have Danzo pop out of nowhere all obsessed with the Sharingan and, randomly, has a collection of it. What is it short of an unimaginative Kishimoto pulling things out of his arse? Read between the lines? Come on. Let's take Harry Potter, we are not about to praise Rowling for having the three hallows when we've seen one of them for the whole series without any explanation on how special it is. By the way, it is so special that someone's magical eye, something that appears to be pretty commonplace, can just see through it. Sure, Harry is special, so we'll give him some legendary item and mask it under a sea of mediocrity. This is the problem that I am having with the sharingan mess right now. We can certainly say that in the vaguest sense of development, Kishimoto has properly explained everything, but that's nothing more than excuses for how far he has to stretch things for there to even be a semblance of coherence.
First, I rationalize the presence of the sharingan for people who get worked up over an internally consistent plot device. Also, the read between the lines thing was over the use of omnipresence and special. It was explained in my last post; kindly read it again.
Secondly, if you have beef with the idea of implanting a bunch of eyes into your arm thats one thing, but for you to say "Danzo pop out of nowhere all obsessed with the Sharingan", well, you havent been reading the goddamn story. By the way, in case you didnt know Danzo - who happens to be power hungry, keep that in mind! - was behind the plot to destroy the Uchihas, and word has it the Sharingan is pretty strong.
Im going to ignore your Harry Potter reference, because it reeks of stupid.
On December 12 2009 03:24 Ecael wrote: Well, omnipotence from the Sharingan isn't that unexpected, something like that I can buy even if I dislike it. The character importance argument works perfectly fine here. .
What? You went from complaining about the "sharingan mess" to being understanding about its omnipotence? If you can accept that an eye technique that has been around since the beginning of the manga has been elevated to divine powers, what exactly do you have to complain about?
Right, it reeks of stupid. Thank you. So Danzo can had all those settings and Kishimoto can't be bothered to give any significant information. All you said are true, but that doesn't make it a good solution. Again, I can make the vaguest statements, draw back to the said vague statement a year later and say that you are an idiot for not realizing what the vague statement means. That doesn't make me smart, nor does it mean that the plot is coherent, it just means that I left some insurance so that I can bullshit my way out of a corner. I made a stupid post on TL? That was actually just sarcasm, you are such an idiot, who could actually be that stupid?
I said that I found that acceptable because there are no logical ways out of it, just like how we had little with DBZ but to accept that there are really like ten stages of Super Saiyans. Danzo on the other hand has had plenty of chances to get more elaboration.
Following that, I am fine with Danzo getting a sharingan arm, as long as Kishimoto even bothered to suggest that we should be on the lookout for it. Like someone pointed out, we saw his arm with the Byakugan and all we got was a note on how it might belong to someone else originally. Some minor character that we know only as the best friend Itachi killed. Yes, Danzo is powerful, he is behind the massacre of the Uchiha clan, and is obsessed with obtaining more power. But we hear absolutely nothing that has to do with the Sharingan in particular. If we look at just those characteristics, we can get away with a lot of things happening to Danzo. He can even have a Rinnegan for all we know, why? He was a Hawk that was involved with a lot of conflicts and has his own secret police. When you have enough vague settings on a character, you can get away with anything. The inconsistencies shouldn't be dismissed on account of such settings, and even if they are, they are ultimately a sign of weakness from the mangaka. I am all for "reading between the lines", but at this point I have difficulties believing that Kishimoto has a design for this rather than seizing every straw he can get from the past to keep the plot afloat.
On December 12 2009 04:25 L wrote: In this thread we complain about the story of a ninja cartoon because we don't like the fact that some characters can do ninja magic.
So true, commute would be so much better when we can teleport.
On December 12 2009 04:51 rei wrote: There are a lot of other better manga out there for those of you who complains so much. Just stop reading Naruto if you feel that it is not up to your intellectual standard.
Aren't we all curious as to how Kishimoto can just keep on dragging this out? That curiosity is my biggest driving force now.
EPT
