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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On April 28 2013 05:55 Tanukki wrote: I feel like there were two movies between 2.0 and 3.0 that were better than 3.0 and we'll never get to see them  maybe someday | ||
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about. Well personally, if NGE struck me down as a geniality was because I was expecting nothing more than a typical japanese show about people who ride robots destroying evil aliens. But then you learn that the evas are actually somewhat alive by themselves, and can act without a pilot. Then Toji gets squashed by Sinji's own eva and the freaking buildings are splashed with blood. Then Kaworu appears, and you have that incredible scene with Beethoven playing in the background. And then the OVAs. People dying because of Shinji's cowardice; that incredibly awesome scene of Asuka fighting against tenths of evas with only 30 seconds of battery left. And everything concludes with an acid-trip of worlds being eaten and angels and seas of blood. Such an ending I'd never seen before, and I've never seen again anywhere (as much as I was rooting for something like that to properly end Lost for instance). So I can more or less understand you when you say that Eva is overrated, and it probably is; but I also think you are being incredibly unfair when you dismiss it for being something no different than power rangers. The base premise of the show might be power rangers, but it is precisely what they build on top of that that made this show as incredible as it is. | ||
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
On April 28 2013 05:54 white_horse wrote: + Show Spoiler + You're making a stretch with what I wrote. NGE is similar to lady gaga in the sense that they are both part of the modernism/post-modernism shit that people today call art. Things become artistic or literary masterpieces because the people making them are naturally talented with storytelling, prose, painting skills etc. Throwing in a smorgasbord of christian, freudian, psychological, etc. themes and symbolism all into one pot to try to make your work look like its filled with some kind of mysterious, greater-than-our-world meaning isn't a recipe for literary and imaginative excellence. If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about. I actually watched the original nge anime series up to the 18th or 19th episode or so. It was really great up to that. Like I said, NGE is a good anime overall. But I just facepalm when anime fans treat it like its some kind of wonder of the planet because of all the "thematic" elements stuffed into it. You're just falling for the clever schemes the producers engineered to attract more viewers. If you think the original series was only about 14-year-olds piloting mecha to save the world from aliens, you need to watch the last few episodes and End of Evangelion if you haven't yet. (probably should skip 25 and 26 till after EoE like the guide says since it's not the ending Anno wanted) There is a voice in the back of my head that still warns me all the philosophizing is entirely BS and used strictly to garner attention, but as I mentioned, after seeing 2.22, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm finally starting to appreciate what Anno and Gainax tried to do with the characters but didn't; whether it was lack of opportunity or creativity is up for debate. For example, I can better understand Shinji's mentality, and I finally am able to see how I can relate to Asuka personally. As an artistically-dense, technically-minded individual, I couldn't appreciate the abstract concepts of the series until the producer finally hashed them out and said them explicitly enough for me to comprehend over the course of three additional movies (EoE, 1.11, and 2.22). At the end of the day, I agree that Eva could have been made more like a Gundam-style anime, or more satirical such as Guren Lagann. I also concur that all the hype brought upon by the fanboys and -girls is fairly excessive and exalting it as a pinnacle of art makes me shake my head in wonder as much as yourself. (I wouldn't consider myself a fanboy; I'm only trying to defend its importance) But despite all its controversy, Eva does make one think, whether the producers intended it to or not, and I'd argue the concepts are still worth discussing anyways. Edit: @Ender: You might want to spoiler a good portion of your post. You reveal a fair amount of late-in-the-series material. | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
On April 28 2013 08:33 Ender985 wrote: Well personally, if NGE struck me down as a geniality was because I was expecting nothing more than a typical japanese show about people who ride robots destroying evil aliens. But then you learn that the evas are actually somewhat alive by themselves, and can act without a pilot. Then Toji gets squashed by Sinji's own eva and the freaking buildings are splashed with blood. Then Kaworu appears, and you have that incredible scene with Beethoven playing in the background. And then the OVAs. People dying because of Shinji's cowardice; that incredibly awesome scene of Asuka fighting against tenths of evas with only 30 seconds of battery left. And everything concludes with an acid-trip of worlds being eaten and angels and seas of blood. Such an ending I'd never seen before, and I've never seen again anywhere (as much as I was rooting for something like that to properly end Lost for instance). So I can more or less understand you when you say that Eva is overrated, and it probably is; but I also think you are being incredibly unfair when you dismiss it for being something no different than power rangers. The base premise of the show might be power rangers, but it is precisely what they build on top of that that made this show as incredible as it is. I feel the same. Maybe its because I was 14 when I watched NGE but I had never seen so much mindfuck and violence before. Well its not on a berserk level where I was depressed for 3 days straight after the anime ending (thank god there is the manga) but I will probably never forget NGE and that is a sucess in my opinion. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
The scene where Rei's Eva bangs it's head against a wall and tries to kill Gendo was intense enough, but after this scene I expected further episodes to be as equally scary and brutal. They were far more violent than I could have ever anticipated. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
WTF quota reached for the next six months, minimum. | ||
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Ushio
Canada868 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On April 28 2013 05:54 white_horse wrote: If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about. This is the worst abuse of logic I've seen since I've last looked in the US Politics thread. If you can make the same argument for pretty much everything, you don't have an argument unless you want to apply it to everything. And you know it's BS...but you still think it's a good point >< I mean, really, you could write a similar paragraph on Citizen Kane and it would make just as much sense in context. ...actually, looking through this again, the "bare core" argument isn't just wrong, it's factually inaccurate. The robots are not robots, the "aliens" are not evil, and nobody is trying to destroy earth. If "bare bones" meant "changing huge chunks of plot-relevant content", then yes, you have successfully captured the "bare bones" of the story. | ||
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DHD
United States18 Posts
the first few eps were good , going along with the flow that was the mech animes of the early 90s......but the story 180'd and turned to shit | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On April 28 2013 16:24 acker wrote: Read through the last couple of posts. What on earth... This is the worst abuse of logic I've seen since I've last looked in the US Politics thread. If you can make the same argument for pretty much everything, you don't have an argument unless you want to apply it to everything. And you know it's BS...but you still think it's a good point >< I mean, really, you could write a similar paragraph on Citizen Kane and it would make just as much sense in context. ...actually, looking through this again, the "bare core" argument isn't just wrong, it's factually inaccurate. The robots are not robots, the "aliens" are not evil, and nobody is trying to destroy earth. If "bare bones" meant "changing huge chunks of plot-relevant content", then yes, you have successfully captured the "bare bones" of the story. Exactly. Even if he was going for the analogy in a metaphorical sense, it would still be wrong though. The plot isn't about a people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens. The warring between evas and the angels are merely a backdrop, the plot itself is about growing up; every single character in the series, minor or major, has their own flaws that they have to learn to deal with but don't want to face. The main plot threads actually have nothing to do with giant robots at all, hence why it is a deconstruction of giant robot shows, an anti-mecha anime. And although there is a lot of "extraneous BS" within the show, completely writing it off due to that is also a fallacy because there actually is some "literary and imaginative excellence" lurking behind it. The show certainly has its flaws, but even though there are a lot of random thematic elements touched on without much exploration, almost to a fault(which honestly many great works have some degree of unexplored thematic elements thrown in like that simply to touch on a theme which doesn't actually contribute much besides mood), that's no reason to eschew any analysis of it whatsoever. The idea that a similar paragraph could be written about Citizen Kane with that logic is quite poignant; just because every Tennessee Williams play may touch upon alcoholism, fighting between father and offspring, or homosexuality, through undertones which merely touch on a theme without exploring it and don't actually contribute anything to the plot doesn't mean they are automatically terrible works, or for a more current pop culture reference, robocop wouldn't really have been a better movie if the extraneous bs of religious undertones of robocop as an american jesus were removed and it were more focused on being an action flick. Of course, when a person giving their opinion on a work of art focusing on this particular motif(growing up) stops before what is arguably the most important part of the plot (learning how to deal with the problems they don't want to face which were set up previously), thus being unaware of the climax and resolution of that theme, they probably aren't the most qualified to speak about whether said theme was effective in creating "a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about. " | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On April 28 2013 16:13 Ushio wrote: So when is 4.0 going to come out exactly? Expect at least one year before the film is in Japanese theaters, then expect at least 4 months for a cam rip to make its way on the internet and then a year after that before the blue ray is for sale. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On April 28 2013 17:54 Gamegene wrote: Expect at least one year before the film is in Japanese theaters, then expect at least 4 months for a cam rip to make its way on the internet and then a year after that before the blue ray is for sale. The time gap between 2.0 and 3.0 was 3 years. If it's the same for 4.0 it would really suck. At least 2.0 felt somewhat like a complete movie while 3.0 has so many questions that need answering and had a very unsatisfying ending. | ||
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fluidin
Singapore1084 Posts
This is akin to jumping on the anti-hype bandwagon. It's not the pinnacle of art, but neither is it superfluous BS. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
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fluidin
Singapore1084 Posts
IIRC EVA 1.0 was only available at Cineleisure. Hope GV picks it up too | ||
white_horse
1019 Posts
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
Many disappointing things in this movie. But probably Kawaru probably takes the cake. Shinji not showing development that was hinted at the end of 2.0 and any difference in Rei is a close second and third. | ||
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On April 29 2013 02:19 Xahhk wrote: 3.0 was just terrible. Characterization was out the window in favor of creating speculation and questions. I highly doubt Anno will wrap anything up in the next movie. He'll create something purely to stoke speculation for the next 10 years, he'll write the characters as to be unlikeable except by those who are willing to fill in all the gaps in writing by themselves etc etc. Many disappointing things in this movie. But probably Kawaru probably takes the cake. Shinji not showing development that was hinted at the end of 2.0 and any difference in Rei is a close second and third. Eva fans mad that you got no character development when you got some in the last two Characters dont have to develop. This movie seem to go through the coarse of just a few days lets be realistic here. Out of all the legit complaints about the movie I find the character development funniest to hear | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
Watching it right now and: + Show Spoiler + Did Shinji get teleported to an alternate universe or something? How long has it been since the ending of 2.0, because the new NERV base and all the bridge bunnies are completely different. + Show Spoiler + Wow, Fuyutuski telling Shinji the truth about Rei and his mother, really interested to see how this develops since he never learned the complete truth in the original series. | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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