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On November 20 2013 23:28 Hyperbola wrote:The overarching story of LoK is that all waterbenders are evil and the fire nation was justified in their genocide. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 21:51 Zergneedsfood wrote:Again, this isn't to say that I didn't like The Last Airbender... but people complaining about Korra being a worse character than Aang are just flat-out wrong in my mind. Everyone in Legend of Korra has a few more dimensions to them in my opinion. Korra improved a lot this season, and Tenzin kind of but the rest of its supporting cast got cut down, beaten to a pulp, and mauled by animals. The only supporting character that kind of "improved' without having an arc was Mako. Everyone else was just useless, comic relief, or was wrong in the head. The supporting cast actually did 90% of the work. Mako and Bolin stopped the war, Jinora and Tenzin stopped the spirits. Korra was carried through the entire season. In the end, the cosmos defeated Vaatu. It's actually kinda dumb how they retconned the whole cosmic energy thing and just made the avatar into the vessel for a spirit.
The avatar was always a vessel for a spirit.
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On November 20 2013 23:28 Hyperbola wrote:The overarching story of LoK is that all waterbenders are evil and the fire nation was justified in their genocide. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 21:51 Zergneedsfood wrote:Again, this isn't to say that I didn't like The Last Airbender... but people complaining about Korra being a worse character than Aang are just flat-out wrong in my mind. Everyone in Legend of Korra has a few more dimensions to them in my opinion. Korra improved a lot this season, and Tenzin kind of but the rest of its supporting cast got cut down, beaten to a pulp, and mauled by animals. The only supporting character that kind of "improved' without having an arc was Mako. Everyone else was just useless, comic relief, or was wrong in the head. The supporting cast actually did 90% of the work. Mako and Bolin stopped the war, Jinora and Tenzin stopped the spirits. Korra was carried through the entire season. In the end, the cosmos defeated Vaatu. It's actually kinda dumb how they retconned the whole cosmic energy thing and just made the avatar into the vessel for a spirit.
I'm talking about actual development.
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On November 20 2013 23:28 Hyperbola wrote:
It's actually kinda dumb how they retconned the whole cosmic energy thing and just made the avatar into the vessel for a spirit.
Bryan and Mike have publicly stated that they had the base story of the Avatar's origins back in A:TLA Book 2. It's not a retcon -- it was an explanation of what the creators intended the Avatar to be. I mentioned in my last post how Bryke were unable to focus on a lot of the details of the Avatar universe in A:TLA because they couldn't find a good way to fit things in while telling Aang's story and how they wanted to do a lot more of delving into the lore with Korra.
My apologies if you had some other completely made up scenario in your head that you somehow believed was canon despite there never being any real detail to the Avatar and its origins prior to LoK. We only knew of the Avatar's abilities (bend all 4 elements, connection to past lives, Avatar state) and the general mission statements: bridge between the physical and spiritual, bring peace and balance to the world. None of that got changed in LoK -- unless you count Korra deciding to no longer be the bridge between worlds.
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Yeah... Considering the Wan episodes, I do believe the story of the Avatar was planned from the beginning. They didn't retcon it, they just didn't have the chance to cover it in A:TLA as there was no room for it.
Still, I don't believe Korra evolved that much. She had an epiphany during the last episode about spirits and humans, and her journey into the past made her focus on the big issues and stop being a brat for a second. It is evolution and development, but it is nowhere near what Zuko went through. Again, this can't really be blamed on the writers, I'm sure if they had more episodes it would feel much better. The format of the series just induces rushed plots.
On the other hand, I don't understand how anyone could say there was a lot of character development in that season. Tenzin and Korra found themselves somewhat, that's about it. Mako was the serious guy nobody listened to, Bolin was comic relief / badass bender for one episode, Lin was a complete joke and a vast ocean of emptiness. Asami didn't do much either, etc... There really wasn't much character development at all. Even Unalaq, who seemed vaguely interesting, ended up being a one dimensional somewhat boring villain (Amon was much, much more charismatic).
The most painful part was really Lin, who was so interesting in the first season. I really hope they don't mess it up if the third season really does focus on her. I cringed so much when someone - I forgot who - was praising Mako for his instinct and his detective work and Lin said "He's the best we have" with a totally serious face, somehow forgetting she spent the entire season shitting on him (not to mention he was still in jail at the time, like, really..). Ugh.
Anyway. We shall see season 3.
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On November 21 2013 06:41 Spaylz wrote:
Yeah... Considering the Wan episodes, I do believe the story of the Avatar was planned from the beginning. They didn't retcon it, they just didn't have the chance to cover it in A:TLA as there was no room for it.
Still, I don't believe Korra evolved that much. She had an epiphany during the last episode about spirits and humans, and her journey into the past made her focus on the big issues and stop being a brat for a second. It is evolution and development, but it is nowhere near what Zuko went through. Again, this can't really be blamed on the writers, I'm sure if they had more episodes it would feel much better. The format of the series just induces rushed plots.
On the other hand, I don't understand how anyone could say there was a lot of character development in that season. Tenzin and Korra found themselves somewhat, that's about it. Mako was the serious guy nobody listened to, Bolin was comic relief / badass bender for one episode, Lin was a complete joke and a vast ocean of emptiness. Asami didn't do much either, etc... There really wasn't much character development at all. Even Unalaq, who seemed vaguely interesting, ended up being a one dimensional somewhat boring villain (Amon was much, much more charismatic).
The most painful part was really Lin, who was so interesting in the first season. I really hope they don't mess it up if the third season really does focus on her. I cringed so much when someone - I forgot who - was praising Mako for his instinct and his detective work and Lin said "He's the best we have" with a totally serious face, somehow forgetting she spent the entire season shitting on him (not to mention he was still in jail at the time, like, really..). Ugh.
Anyway. We shall see season 3.
Tenzin learned to relax. He no longer had to, and couldn't do everything. Him and Korra are faces of the same coin. From near birth they were saddled with a great responsibility, they just went in different directions. Mako and Bolin's entire role in the season was to be a moral lesson. Have an opinion, don't just be a yes man to people because you care for them, and most of all, don't give in to adversity when you're doing the right thing. Don't let what you are become who you are and don't let the people around you be defined by it. Unalaq was as boring as Ozai is. If you have issue with one you better have issue with the other. Amon was supposed to be charismatic. You were supposed to think "What he's doing is wrong, but..." and then betrayed by the truth about him. With Lin, she realized that she was wrong and owned up to it. As somebody in a position of power that takes pride in her work, to admit that she was flat out wrong in something as big as that is a pretty big pill to swallow.
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I did find Ozai boring. Well, not boring per se, but he seriously lacked character development. He could have been a great villain, but I found he was overly built up and as a result, his actual appearance felt a little flat.
I suppose you are right about Bolin and Mako though. About Lin however, I honestly didn't feel that when she spoke. Maybe it is the dialogue or the delivery, but I just didn't get what you described. It didn't feel like some big admission of error to me. Add that to the fact that she was tolerating the two morons in her force and even valuing their opinion over Mako's, it just makes her lose some credit to me. I get that she fired them in the end and fixed that too, but again I didn't feel it.
I don't know, maybe I'm being too picky, but I just didn't see that at all in Lin.
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On November 21 2013 05:52 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 23:28 Hyperbola wrote:
It's actually kinda dumb how they retconned the whole cosmic energy thing and just made the avatar into the vessel for a spirit. Bryan and Mike have publicly stated that they had the base story of the Avatar's origins back in A:TLA Book 2. It's not a retcon -- it was an explanation of what the creators intended the Avatar to be. I mentioned in my last post how Bryke were unable to focus on a lot of the details of the Avatar universe in A:TLA because they couldn't find a good way to fit things in while telling Aang's story and how they wanted to do a lot more of delving into the lore with Korra. My apologies if you had some other completely made up scenario in your head that you somehow believed was canon despite there never being any real detail to the Avatar and its origins prior to LoK. We only knew of the Avatar's abilities (bend all 4 elements, connection to past lives, Avatar state) and the general mission statements: bridge between the physical and spiritual, bring peace and balance to the world. None of that got changed in LoK -- unless you count Korra deciding to no longer be the bridge between worlds.
I agree. As much as I didn't like Korra, there was no retcon. It's pretty frustrating over on Avatar boards lately since everyone seems to be misusing that term all the time or just getting ti straight up wrong.
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I think there was some character development. They focused on Tenzin and his child hood, they even shed some light on Aang in his father role and that he was maybe the avatar but not the best father.
Lets hope Korra stays somewhat of a "brat" like someone said, although I do not quite agree. She is a hot head and she is inexperienced and she has her flaws and I like that. I don't like heroes who are the perfect do gooders.
I also hope that there is more conflict in this love triangle (but I don't hope it simply plays out that Asami is getting pissed and ends up doing evil things).
What I didn't like was the whole Bolin story, although it was funny it was shallow and Mako did not really have anything interesting to do besides save the president in the last episode and spicing up the love story by hooking up with Asami again and then kind of not.
Lin is not that of an important character to me, so I don't mind if she didn't get that much screen time this season.
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On November 21 2013 08:46 Holy_AT wrote:
I think there was some character development. They focused on Tenzin and his child hood, they even shed some light on Aang in his father role and that he was maybe the avatar but not the best father.
Lets hope Korra stays somewhat of a "brat" like someone said, although I do not quite agree. She is a hot head and she is inexperienced and she has her flaws and I like that. I don't like heroes who are the perfect do gooders.
I also hope that there is more conflict in this love triangle (but I don't hope it simply plays out that Asami is getting pissed and ends up doing evil things).
What I didn't like was the whole Bolin story, although it was funny it was shallow and Mako did not really have anything interesting to do besides save the president in the last episode and spicing up the love story by hooking up with Asami again and then kind of not.
Lin is not that of an important character to me, so I don't mind if she didn't get that much screen time this season.
+ Show Spoiler [Only if you caught the end of the season] +That ship has sunk. It'd take more than a "Oh, you're back." for them to try again.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
Book 3 is supposedly called "Change"
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Might as well link to a source
“The title of Book 3 is going to be called ‘Change,’” DiMartino said. “It’s all about Korra dealing with the change of the world in this point in time. At the end of Book 2 she says it’s a new era. And it really is and we’re going to show how Harmonic Convergence and her battle with Unalaq and Vaatu kind of shifted the world a bit.”
DiMartino also said “We don’t have an airdate yet. We’re already working on the first few episodes of post-production for Book 3. So that’s all going very well.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/11/20/the-legend-of-korra-book-three-will-be-titled-change/
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On November 21 2013 05:52 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 23:28 Hyperbola wrote:
It's actually kinda dumb how they retconned the whole cosmic energy thing and just made the avatar into the vessel for a spirit. Bryan and Mike have publicly stated that they had the base story of the Avatar's origins back in A:TLA Book 2. It's not a retcon -- it was an explanation of what the creators intended the Avatar to be. I mentioned in my last post how Bryke were unable to focus on a lot of the details of the Avatar universe in A:TLA because they couldn't find a good way to fit things in while telling Aang's story and how they wanted to do a lot more of delving into the lore with Korra. My apologies if you had some other completely made up scenario in your head that you somehow believed was canon despite there never being any real detail to the Avatar and its origins prior to LoK. We only knew of the Avatar's abilities (bend all 4 elements, connection to past lives, Avatar state) and the general mission statements: bridge between the physical and spiritual, bring peace and balance to the world. None of that got changed in LoK -- unless you count Korra deciding to no longer be the bridge between worlds.
Well if that's true then that's even more disappointing. The avatar was cool when he had an abstract power. The avatar state was just a cool spiritual link to his past lives and that's what made him special. Now, he's just some shuck with a spirit inside him. Forget about all those past lifetimes of experience and accomplishment, you got a spirit that does all the work for you. If they truly had that in mind from the beginning then that just taints the series, IMO. It doesn't help that the next season sounds even more boring than this one.
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What other explanation could there have been? There can't really be a human with a spiritual link to his past lives in a world where spirits are so important, without a spirit somehow being involved. It even connects everything, since the Avatar is the bridge between the two worlds. Again, it'd be hard to explain that without a spirit involved.
I think the explanation makes sense and works just fine. It's one of the few things I liked in this season.
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Yeah Raava and Vaatu simply existing makes sense and actually worked well. Them and wan were what I liked most this series. I just think the characters as a whole are poorly done and that the actual story, while having many good ideas I agree with, falls short in a lot of instances leaving a sour taste in your mouth. I'm hoping season 3 works to fix that. Maybe "change" also represents a change in writing style so the story and characters actually become better. 
*crosses fingers that only Mir work on it*
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Why has no one mentioned this. The antivatar circle will continue since vaatu can't simply die (like raava). And so antivatar vs avatar fight continues for 10,000 years lel
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On November 22 2013 01:03 Elasticity wrote:
Why has no one mentioned this. The antivatar circle will continue since vaatu can't simply die (like raava). And so antivatar vs avatar fight continues for 10,000 years lel
I think an avatar can certainly be killed and maybe the spirit can be separated from the human, so it is possible to trap vatu again and stop this cycle, until someone releases him again.
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I liked the second half of the season quite a bit, especially the last few episodes. Felt epic and grandiose, which the show lacked quite a bit imo.
+ Show Spoiler [last episodes] +Anyway, I feel the show is gonna need to explain the cosmic Korra thing and what exactly Jinora did to reach out from the spirit to the real world, but the plot is probably gonna bend that way with the joining of worlds. Also, Vaatu being inside Raava is probably gonna be a plot point (Korra is, in a way, both light and dark avatar now, so that may come to play).
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On November 22 2013 01:03 Elasticity wrote:
Why has no one mentioned this. The antivatar circle will continue since vaatu can't simply die (like raava). And so antivatar vs avatar fight continues for 10,000 years lel
If you visit the wikia of Avatar, you'll find this note:
"The Dark Avatar Cycle will cease to continue, as Vaatu's spirit was purified while the Dark Avatar was in the Avatar State.[1]" with a link provided.
So apparently, because the dark Avatar was killed while in the Avatar State, the cycle was broken and there will be no more dark Avatar. This doesn't exclude the (very likely) possibility of Vaatu emerging from Raava/Korra/the next Avatar though.
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Aww man... I was hoping for a plot point where Korra and Team Avatar are tasked to hunt down and eliminate the next incarnation of the Dark Avatar, only to find an innocent 5-year old girl who didn't even want the dark powers she inherited. Unwilling to murder a small child, they team up and go on the run from a nefarious, as-of-yet unnamed villain who tries to use Republic City's armies to eliminate both Korra and the Dark Avatar as well as eliminate all spirits who choose to dwell in the physical world.
Buuuut, I guess that ain't happening.
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EPT
