SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On March 06 2012 04:03 Geo.Rion wrote: ye, they leave the blackfish and riverrun out altogether, probably the Reed and the Frey kids too. What really pisses me they've botched the Bolton storyline with that stupid-stupid-stupid "i ve sent 2k ppl to die", so they either come up with a random way to introduce the Boltons, or leave out a few hundred pages. The Reed kids also seem important but they might leave them out
How did they botch the Bolton story line? Everything regarding the Bolton seems to be in line with the book. Robb assumes that Bolton's forces were completely destroyed but he doesn't know for a fact.
Well, correct me if i'm wrong, in the books the Northern host is split up in two, one of which is directed by Bolton, with which he faints an attack and retreats, taking Harrenhall later and retreating to North after, leaving him with the only standing army in the North and becoming the Warden of North later. Now, in the series it was clearly said it s a 20k soldiers host, from which the Lannisters annihilated the 2k diversion strikeforce. This is confirmed by Tywinn and Robb too. So, how do they introduce him?
According to awoiaf bolton is defeated but is able to retreat with most of his host. In the show does Tywin say they kill 2000 men or there were only 2000 men on that side of the green fork?
In the tv show, before the battle Robb captures a scout and lets him go with the message, tell the Lannisters 20k northmen are marching to meet him. after the battle Tyrion wakes up, and asks him what happened, Tywinn says there werent 20k but 2k and no Robb Stark, and the left of the 18k is porbably with Robb somewhere else. After taht Robb tells his mother he's sent 2k men to their deaths. There is precisely 0 reference of any survivals/retreats or Bolton, on the contrary it's strongly suggested that the diversion force got slaughtered.
So Tywin never says he killed 2000 men, and Robb's probably just being pessimistic.
On March 06 2012 04:03 Geo.Rion wrote: ye, they leave the blackfish and riverrun out altogether, probably the Reed and the Frey kids too. What really pisses me they've botched the Bolton storyline with that stupid-stupid-stupid "i ve sent 2k ppl to die", so they either come up with a random way to introduce the Boltons, or leave out a few hundred pages. The Reed kids also seem important but they might leave them out
How did they botch the Bolton story line? Everything regarding the Bolton seems to be in line with the book. Robb assumes that Bolton's forces were completely destroyed but he doesn't know for a fact.
Well, correct me if i'm wrong, in the books the Northern host is split up in two, one of which is directed by Bolton, with which he faints an attack and retreats, taking Harrenhall later and retreating to North after, leaving him with the only standing army in the North and becoming the Warden of North later. Now, in the series it was clearly said it s a 20k soldiers host, from which the Lannisters annihilated the 2k diversion strikeforce. This is confirmed by Tywinn and Robb too. So, how do they introduce him?
According to awoiaf bolton is defeated but is able to retreat with most of his host. In the show does Tywin say they kill 2000 men or there were only 2000 men on that side of the green fork?
In the tv show, before the battle Robb captures a scout and lets him go with the message, tell the Lannisters 20k northmen are marching to meet him. after the battle Tyrion wakes up, and asks him what happened, Tywinn says there werent 20k but 2k and no Robb Stark, and the left of the 18k is porbably with Robb somewhere else. After taht Robb tells his mother he's sent 2k men to their deaths. There is precisely 0 reference of any survivals/retreats or Bolton, on the contrary it's strongly suggested that the diversion force got slaughtered.
And implications have never been set up to herald a plot twist... ever. This is really not something I can get worked up about, it seems there are a dozen ways to write the story so it is sufficiently similar to the books.
On March 06 2012 04:03 Geo.Rion wrote: ye, they leave the blackfish and riverrun out altogether, probably the Reed and the Frey kids too. What really pisses me they've botched the Bolton storyline with that stupid-stupid-stupid "i ve sent 2k ppl to die", so they either come up with a random way to introduce the Boltons, or leave out a few hundred pages. The Reed kids also seem important but they might leave them out
I just don't see how this is possible at all, most of the second and third books from Cat's point of view is at Riverrun, and edmure and Blackfish are really important. Is this just conjecture or have they said its definitely cut?
On March 06 2012 04:03 Geo.Rion wrote: ye, they leave the blackfish and riverrun out altogether, probably the Reed and the Frey kids too. What really pisses me they've botched the Bolton storyline with that stupid-stupid-stupid "i ve sent 2k ppl to die", so they either come up with a random way to introduce the Boltons, or leave out a few hundred pages. The Reed kids also seem important but they might leave them out
I just don't see how this is possible at all, most of the second and third books from Cat's point of view is at Riverrun, and edmure and Blackfish are really important. Is this just conjecture or have they said its definitely cut?
Nothing really has to happen AT Riverrun. It can all easily occur in a mobile camp wherever the army is. Assuming that Cat's father, and his death, are left out, which I can't see hurting anything. Both the Blackfish and Edmure don't really do anything important in the second book, other than offer Edmure's hand in marriage to one of Frey's daughters. And it's not like he needs to be on screen when that happens.
As for the Boltons, once Arya makes it to Harrenhall, Bolton can show up to take it with the mercenaries that Arya helps out accidentally. Though to be honest he plays a relatively small part on screen, not counting him killing Robb, that leaving him out wouldn't hurt too much.
On March 11 2012 12:54 Fourn wrote: Am I the only person who believes that Syrio Forel is still alive?
I think the most popular theory is Syrio Forel = Jaqen H'ghar. Which I was at first skeptical about, but upon further consideration it seems reasonable. 1) Syrio is from braavos, home to the temple of the many faced god 2) Syrio's whole "There is only one god, the god of death. and what do we say to the god of death" shpeal 3) Syrio's "watching is not seeing, the true seeing is the heart of swordplay" is very reminiscent of arya's training at the temple.
On March 11 2012 12:54 Fourn wrote: Am I the only person who believes that Syrio Forel is still alive?
I don't believe he is. It was unlikely that Syrio would have run from Meryn Trant, and clrealy Trant is still alive and well afterwards (so he didn't really lose the fight). Its possible that Syrio would have been thrown in the black cells, though again that doesn't seem likely since pretty much all of Eddard's household staff and guards were just killed off rather than imprisoned, so I don't know why Maryn would have bothered to keep Syrio alive. Even if Syrio ended up in the black cells at that point though, he would have either starved to death or killed by Qyburn later on.
Syrio's role in the book was as a mentor and role model to Arya, and he fulfilled that role. Having him killed off gives Arya a reason to grow as an individual rather than continue looking up to an authoritative figure. While it would be nice to believe he lived through it, its highly unlikely.
In 2005, GRRM pointed out that Syrio seems to have been left in a hopeless situation when he was last seen, and suggested readers should "draw your own conclusions" based on this (SSM), which seems to imply that Syrio Forel was in fact killed. More recent reports (but, it should be said, unconfirmed) indicate GRRM does not understand why he gets asked the question repeatedly, pointing out that Syrio is not immortal; if accurate, this seems to more heavily imply that Syrio Forel is dead.
On March 11 2012 17:37 scudst0rm wrote: I think the most popular theory is Syrio Forel = Jaqen H'ghar. Which I was at first skeptical about, but upon further consideration it seems reasonable.
Jaqen was already in the black cells when Syrio was still teaching Arya.
On March 11 2012 12:54 Fourn wrote: Am I the only person who believes that Syrio Forel is still alive?
I think the most popular theory is Syrio Forel = Jaqen H'ghar. Which I was at first skeptical about, but upon further consideration it seems reasonable. 1) Syrio is from braavos, home to the temple of the many faced god 2) Syrio's whole "There is only one god, the god of death. and what do we say to the god of death" shpeal 3) Syrio's "watching is not seeing, the true seeing is the heart of swordplay" is very reminiscent of arya's training at the temple.
The fact that he is from Braavos explains why he is acquainted with their philosophy and way of thinking. Point 2) also only happens in the tv series, not in the books. The Syrio=Jaquen theory is perhaps the second most discussed theory in the fandom. There are some hints that indicate it, but in my opinion too many factors that make it implausible. See also http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jaqen_hghar.html for a reference.
On March 06 2012 04:03 Geo.Rion wrote: ye, they leave the blackfish and riverrun out altogether, probably the Reed and the Frey kids too. What really pisses me they've botched the Bolton storyline with that stupid-stupid-stupid "i ve sent 2k ppl to die", so they either come up with a random way to introduce the Boltons, or leave out a few hundred pages. The Reed kids also seem important but they might leave them out
I just don't see how this is possible at all, most of the second and third books from Cat's point of view is at Riverrun, and edmure and Blackfish are really important. Is this just conjecture or have they said its definitely cut?
Nothing really has to happen AT Riverrun. It can all easily occur in a mobile camp wherever the army is. Assuming that Cat's father, and his death, are left out, which I can't see hurting anything. Both the Blackfish and Edmure don't really do anything important in the second book, other than offer Edmure's hand in marriage to one of Frey's daughters. And it's not like he needs to be on screen when that happens.
As for the Boltons, once Arya makes it to Harrenhall, Bolton can show up to take it with the mercenaries that Arya helps out accidentally. Though to be honest he plays a relatively small part on screen, not counting him killing Robb, that leaving him out wouldn't hurt too much.
Bolton has been cast for the second season. The Riverrun guys have not. I still think at least Edmure will have a role in the third season. As you say, it is not necessary for him to be on screen during the second season as long as they establish him by name.
I really don't recall this scene. Must completely have forgotten about it. What's happening there and where is that?
Looks like the Red Keep to me (given what it looked like in S1). I know there were a couple of tourneys, but don't remember a fight. It *might* be Sandor fighting Meryn Trant: in the book it is clear Meryn wanted to beat the crap out of Sansa, and the Hound stepped in to protect her, but there was no actual fight. However, I can't think of anything else either.
I dont recall this neither. It's happening in Kings Landing (red-gold banner on the wall). Maybe this is tourney from the begining of the book? To celebrate Joffrey day of birth or something?
Hmm watched it several times. It's definitely the Hound, al least his device and armor. But when does he ever fight with a mace, and when does he fight on the walls of King's Landing with a lot of people standing around just watching. The people watching (you can see one sipping from a cup) suggest it is some sort of duel or tourney, but I don't recall anything like that happening on the castle walls.
The scene where Meryn Trant beats Sansa is shown at 1:03 and it seems to be in the Throne room. Also Meryn beats her with a sword, and the two fighters on the wall have both maces.
The armor of the other guy who falls down the wall is really plain and poor too, it shouldn't be a great knight.
It could simply be a scene not in the books as I don't remember anything that would fit what the trailer showed. Indeed the revolt happened one of the districts and that doesn't look like the Battle of Blackwater. I remember Joffrey holding a tourney, but didn't Sandor decline participation due to the lack of quality opponents?
EPT
