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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On February 16 2012 07:23 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 06:43 Replice wrote:On February 16 2012 02:25 Flik wrote:On February 15 2012 11:05 scudst0rm wrote:On February 15 2012 10:59 antelope591 wrote:On February 15 2012 10:57 Sub40APM wrote:On February 15 2012 10:54 antelope591 wrote:On February 15 2012 09:35 whatwhatanut wrote:On February 15 2012 09:28 Aldehyde wrote:On February 15 2012 09:12 whatwhatanut wrote:
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Lots of discussion is that Jon didn't actually die and there is pretty significant backing to the theory. A vast majority of the major character deaths have been very vivid in the dying. Also there is just too many connections with Jon in the story.
However, Martin could do the mega-double troll and just have him plain dead. I just don't think (and hope) that is what is going to happen. Well, I guess there are possibilities of him being ressurected by Melissandre or just going into Ghost. If any of those, I am hoping for the first one. What are the theories for Jon and the backing thereof (other than what you've already said)? Pretty sure it is all centered around Melisandre and the warg stuff just a lot of discussion about it from others that have read it and the boards for the series. Backing seems to be the foreshadowing, one of Martin's favorite devices. My firend just got to the red wedding and there is a scene a few chapters before where Robb starts thinking about his mortality and naming Jon heir. Very intriguing. I am definitely thinking about a second read. Yea that letter Rob wrote seemed to be a pretty huge event that hasnt been mentioned at all since then. It was the last thing he did and probably named Jon his successor. Hes tied to so many storylines right now that I can't believe hed actually be dead. But I wouldnt put anything past GRM. So much shit going on I dont see how he can wrap it all up in 2 more books. well, the ultimate troll to all his readers would be for the Others to actually destroy humanity. Heh considering no one can reasonably guess where the story's gonna go from book to book I wouldnt count that out as a possible ending. Here's my ultimate troll ending. Victarion tries blowing Euron's horn to tame the dragons. Doesn't work and they just get pissed off by the noise and kill everyone. Then it turns out that was actually somehow the horn or Joramun and the wall comes crumbing down and Westeros is overrun by the others army wights. Haha I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happens. I think the Horn of Joruman part will anyway, we never really find out what happened to the real one. It would also be pretty lame if the Wall stayed up and humanity united and held the Others off at the wall or something. Id be so disappointed. Also I think one reason GRRM is putting Jon into Ghost is so he'll survive the fall of the Wall and be able to do something, what it is I have no idea, Im thinking Bran will help him out with that. Didnt they blow the horn at the kingsmoot? i think they did and the guy who blew it died with burned lungs. Well, we can speculate, although a bit far stretched. Horn of Joruman and Euron's horn are both... horns. The wall is made of ice, Euron's horn burns. (somehow melts ice?) If Horn of Joruman and Euron's horn are of the same thing, you might need to use it closer to the wall for it to take affect.
This could have some truth to it. Also I personally want to see Victarion betray his brother for the sake of it and not marry, but ally Danaerys and return to take over Westeros. Also, is there any speculation on who Arya is going to assassinate?
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Also, is there any speculation on who Arya is going to assassinate?
most likely hired by the Iron Bank to pay a visit to all the people unwilling to pay their debts.
could be anyone really , my money would be on Lord littlefinger, im sure that guy`s rumord financial genious was just a ruse , and he left before the heat from all his frauding went up.
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On February 16 2012 08:12 Irratonalys wrote:most likely hired by the Iron Bank to pay a visit to all the people unwilling to pay their debts. could be anyone really , my money would be on Lord littlefinger, im sure that guy`s rumord financial genious was just a ruse , and he left before the heat from all his frauding went up.
I doubt LittleFinger is starved for funds. I expect his downfall to come from Sansa, once she learns the role he played in the downfall of her family. He is grooming her to be like him, and hopefully someday it will bite him in the ass.
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On February 16 2012 08:12 Irratonalys wrote:most likely hired by the Iron Bank to pay a visit to all the people unwilling to pay their debts. could be anyone really , my money would be on Lord littlefinger, im sure that guy`s rumord financial genious was just a ruse , and he left before the heat from all his frauding went up.
From what GRRM has told us of LF, i dont think his ability with coin is a ruse.
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In order to hire a faceless man don't you have to pay two thirds of your total wealth? Or am I remembering that wrong?
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On February 16 2012 09:28 SiguR wrote:
In order to hire a faceless man don't you have to pay two thirds of your total wealth? Or am I remembering that wrong?
The price is dependent on both the target and the client. It is essentially a sacrifice, and as such has to be very meaningful to the individual (most of what they hold dear). It is not only in the form of gold.
A man whose daughter was nearly poisoned to death by her step-mother gave up two-thirds of his wealth and his daughter to the Many-Faced God to have his revenge on her.
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Just finished reading this whole thread to see you guys reacting to non-readers watching the show, and it's quite entertaining to see pre-DWD theories and speculation. Finished the books in January, and while I'm glad I didn't have to wait 6 years like some of you have, it's pretty awesome to be done with the series and be able to freely browse all the forums/read the theories of others. Here's hoping for a 2014 (at the latest!) tWoW!
So, about the book.
- Arya continues to captivate me. With only 3 chapters in aFFC and then just another 3 (was it?) near the end of aDwD it's not fair! At the same time Dae-boring-nerys gets like 15.
- Danaerys. DO SOMETHING! You traveled with the khalasar, you're the goddamn khaleesi! You should not spend your time brooding in a city that hates you, playing political games (cause you're just a young silly girl, you say it yourself!) Fuck all the ghiscari, AND your slaves! You better join (or murder him and steal his ships) Victarion in the next book.
- Tyrion, oh Tyrion. I like you when you are in control. When you're plotting, betraying, being clever. The travel to Volantis took way too many chapters, but got a bit more interesting towards the end. Everything after Penny was introduced though is a mess. She pisses me off so much, especially when she said something like + Show Spoiler +You can't talk back to big people, they'll hurt you
- Jon might not be Ned's son, but he sure has the Stark naivety gene. You dug your own grave (not that you'll die, but yeah)! With Bowen Marsh being all grumpy and cold with him from the very start of the book it wasn't very hard to predict. :/
- Bran (and Meera <3) was a good read, again though, too few chapters. ^^
- Davos, you're awesome. Theon, Victarion, Littlefinger, you too. As for minor/non-PoV characters, high fives to Manderly, Roose Bolton (but not Ramsay), strong Belwas and Edd Tollett.
Wishes for tWoW:
more Arya/Bran/Davos/Jaime/Littlefinger/Theon (and you better take revenge on Ramsay!)
less Cersei/Daenerys/Dorne/Tyrion (just because he's in Meereen. Give me back my old Tyrion!)
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I like Penny. She reminds me not everyone in that world is a doublecrossing/powerhungry bastard or a vain warrior.
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On February 22 2012 05:25 Shichibukai wrote:Just finished reading this whole thread to see you guys reacting to non-readers watching the show, and it's quite entertaining to see pre-DWD theories and speculation. Finished the books in January, and while I'm glad I didn't have to wait 6 years like some of you have, it's pretty awesome to be done with the series and be able to freely browse all the forums/read the theories of others. Here's hoping for a 2014 (at the latest!) tWoW! So, about the book. - Arya continues to captivate me. With only 3 chapters in aFFC and then just another 3 (was it?) near the end of aDwD it's not fair! At the same time Dae-boring-nerys gets like 15. - Danaerys. DO SOMETHING! You traveled with the khalasar, you're the goddamn khaleesi! You should not spend your time brooding in a city that hates you, playing political games (cause you're just a young silly girl, you say it yourself!) Fuck all the ghiscari, AND your slaves! You better join (or murder him and steal his ships) Victarion in the next book. - Tyrion, oh Tyrion. I like you when you are in control. When you're plotting, betraying, being clever. The travel to Volantis took way too many chapters, but got a bit more interesting towards the end. Everything after Penny was introduced though is a mess. She pisses me off so much, especially when she said something like + Show Spoiler +You can't talk back to big people, they'll hurt you . Wtf? - Jon might not be Ned's son, but he sure has the Stark naivety gene. You dug your own grave (not that you'll die, but yeah)! With Bowen Marsh being all grumpy and cold with him from the very start of the book it wasn't very hard to predict. :/ - Bran (and Meera <3) was a good read, again though, too few chapters. ^^ - Davos, you're awesome. Theon, Victarion, Littlefinger, you too. As for minor/non-PoV characters, high fives to Manderly, Roose Bolton (but not Ramsay), strong Belwas and Edd Tollett. Wishes for tWoW: more Arya/Bran/Davos/Jaime/Littlefinger/Theon (and you better take revenge on Ramsay!) less Cersei/Daenerys/Dorne/Tyrion (just because he's in Meereen. Give me back my old Tyrion!)
I liek you and your opinions. They're the same as mine.
Except I didn't mind Penny that much. And I thought Dorne was really interesting.
I'm really impressed that you managed to read (or evne skim) this entire thread -- it's like reading DwD all over again. ^__^
ANYWYAS:
So have you guys heard of the 'Bran ate Jojen' thoery? How do you feel about it?
I'll post a link of more info as soon as I find it, but I'm sure some of you already know.
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On February 22 2012 06:51 Crazyeyes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 05:25 Shichibukai wrote:Just finished reading this whole thread to see you guys reacting to non-readers watching the show, and it's quite entertaining to see pre-DWD theories and speculation. Finished the books in January, and while I'm glad I didn't have to wait 6 years like some of you have, it's pretty awesome to be done with the series and be able to freely browse all the forums/read the theories of others. Here's hoping for a 2014 (at the latest!) tWoW! So, about the book. - Arya continues to captivate me. With only 3 chapters in aFFC and then just another 3 (was it?) near the end of aDwD it's not fair! At the same time Dae-boring-nerys gets like 15. - Danaerys. DO SOMETHING! You traveled with the khalasar, you're the goddamn khaleesi! You should not spend your time brooding in a city that hates you, playing political games (cause you're just a young silly girl, you say it yourself!) Fuck all the ghiscari, AND your slaves! You better join (or murder him and steal his ships) Victarion in the next book. - Tyrion, oh Tyrion. I like you when you are in control. When you're plotting, betraying, being clever. The travel to Volantis took way too many chapters, but got a bit more interesting towards the end. Everything after Penny was introduced though is a mess. She pisses me off so much, especially when she said something like + Show Spoiler +You can't talk back to big people, they'll hurt you . Wtf? - Jon might not be Ned's son, but he sure has the Stark naivety gene. You dug your own grave (not that you'll die, but yeah)! With Bowen Marsh being all grumpy and cold with him from the very start of the book it wasn't very hard to predict. :/ - Bran (and Meera <3) was a good read, again though, too few chapters. ^^ - Davos, you're awesome. Theon, Victarion, Littlefinger, you too. As for minor/non-PoV characters, high fives to Manderly, Roose Bolton (but not Ramsay), strong Belwas and Edd Tollett. Wishes for tWoW: more Arya/Bran/Davos/Jaime/Littlefinger/Theon (and you better take revenge on Ramsay!) less Cersei/Daenerys/Dorne/Tyrion (just because he's in Meereen. Give me back my old Tyrion!) I liek you and your opinions. They're the same as mine. Except I didn't mind Penny that much. And I thought Dorne was really interesting. I'm really impressed that you managed to read (or evne skim) this entire thread -- it's like reading DwD all over again. ^__^ ANYWYAS: So have you guys heard of the 'Bran ate Jojen' thoery? How do you feel about it? I'll post a link of more info as soon as I find it, but I'm sure some of you already know.
wtf????? link please asap
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Sorry it took so long. I had a dentist's appointment. 
Anyways, I found it on reddit's /r/asoiaf. User 'ungoogleable' is the one who' s got all the info:
ungoogleable on Reddit wrote:The theory is that Jojen was sacrificed by the Children of the Forest and his blood was in the paste they fed to Bran. I've sort of become a self-appointed defender of the theory here. I've collected the key passages and posted a point-by-point explanation just a few days ago. I don't want to just copy and paste my previous posts, so please read them. Let me know if you have any questions. I think the evidence is quite convincing, at least as convincing as other popular theories that don't get nitpicked in so much detail. People really don't want to believe Jojen is dead, though.
Key Passages:
+ Show Spoiler +ungoogleable's Key PassagesIt seems like I have to keep posting these passages over and over. People really don't want to believe Jojen was sacrificed, but the evidence is all there in Bran's chapter: Show nested quote +
Bran’s eyes widened. “They’re going to kill me?”
“No,” Meera said. “Jojen, you’re scaring him.”
“He is not the one who needs to be afraid.”
[...] Show nested quote +
“He wants to go home,” Meera told Bran. “He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie.”
“He’s being brave,” said Bran. The only time a man can be brave is when he is afraid, his father had told him once, long ago, on the day they found the direwolf pups in the summer snows. He still remembered.
“He’s being stupid,” Meera said. “I’d hoped that when we found your three-eyed crow ... now I wonder why we ever came.”
For me, Bran thought. “His greendreams,” he said. “His greendreams.” Meera’s voice was bitter. “Hodor,” said Hodor.
Meera began to cry.
That's the last time we see Jojen or Meera, even though it's implied a significant amount of time passes before Bran is fed the paste. Show nested quote +
Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated. “Will this make me a greenseer?”
“Your blood makes you a greenseer,” said Lord Brynden. “This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees.”
[...] Show nested quote +
Hodor carried Bran back to his chamber, muttering “Hodor” in a low voice as Leaf went before them with a torch. He had hoped that Meera and Jojen would be there, so he could tell them what he had seen, but their snug alcove in the rock was cold and empty.
Bran has a series of visions of Winterfell, the last of which involves a captive being killed in front of the weirwood. Show nested quote +
“No,” said Bran, “no, don’t,” but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth ... but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide,
Brandon Stark could taste the blood.
Point-by-Point Explanatoin
+ Show Spoiler +ungoogleable's Point-by-Point ExplanatoinI have to point out another one, although I know many of you won't like it: Jojen was sacrificed by the Children of the Forest and his blood was in the paste they fed to Bran. I've collected several passages supporting the theory. If you're skeptical, check them out first. The argument goes like this: - Jojen knows how and when he's going to die.
- When he gets to the cave, he becomes increasingly sullen, even though the cave is safe. If he knows when he's going to die and it isn't soon, then he has no reason to be afraid.
- When Bran gets it in his head that the Children are going to kill him, Jojen says "He is not the one who should be afraid." Who is it then that should be afraid of being killed by the Children?
- When Bran and Meera talk, we learn that Jojen is afraid. Meera is upset because Jojen will not even try to fight the fate he sees in his greendreams.
- Bran notes that the veins in the paste "looked remarkably like blood". This isn't conclusive on its own, but it's just one point among many.
- Bran has a vision of a human sacrifice at Winterfell. Why would Martin pick that moment to remind us that the Northern religion involves such sacrifices?
- The chapter ends with "Brandon Stark could taste the blood." This is literally a reference to Bran consuming human blood.
There are possible explanations for each point independently, but there's only really one explanation that fits all of them. I'd say it's at least as well established as the Frey Pie theory, yet it gets a lot less support.
Direct links to his posts are in the quotes (the bolded titles).
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On February 22 2012 08:03 Crazyeyes wrote:Sorry it took so long. I had a dentist's appointment. Anyways, I found it on reddit's /r/asoiaf. User 'ungoogleable' is the one who' s got all the info: Show nested quote +ungoogleable on Reddit wrote:The theory is that Jojen was sacrificed by the Children of the Forest and his blood was in the paste they fed to Bran. I've sort of become a self-appointed defender of the theory here. I've collected the key passages and posted a point-by-point explanation just a few days ago. I don't want to just copy and paste my previous posts, so please read them. Let me know if you have any questions. I think the evidence is quite convincing, at least as convincing as other popular theories that don't get nitpicked in so much detail. People really don't want to believe Jojen is dead, though. Key Passages: + Show Spoiler +ungoogleable's Key PassagesIt seems like I have to keep posting these passages over and over. People really don't want to believe Jojen was sacrificed, but the evidence is all there in Bran's chapter: Show nested quote +
Bran’s eyes widened. “They’re going to kill me?”
“No,” Meera said. “Jojen, you’re scaring him.”
“He is not the one who needs to be afraid.”
[...] Show nested quote +
“He wants to go home,” Meera told Bran. “He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie.”
“He’s being brave,” said Bran. The only time a man can be brave is when he is afraid, his father had told him once, long ago, on the day they found the direwolf pups in the summer snows. He still remembered.
“He’s being stupid,” Meera said. “I’d hoped that when we found your three-eyed crow ... now I wonder why we ever came.”
For me, Bran thought. “His greendreams,” he said. “His greendreams.” Meera’s voice was bitter. “Hodor,” said Hodor.
Meera began to cry.
That's the last time we see Jojen or Meera, even though it's implied a significant amount of time passes before Bran is fed the paste. Show nested quote +
Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated. “Will this make me a greenseer?”
“Your blood makes you a greenseer,” said Lord Brynden. “This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees.”
[...] Show nested quote +
Hodor carried Bran back to his chamber, muttering “Hodor” in a low voice as Leaf went before them with a torch. He had hoped that Meera and Jojen would be there, so he could tell them what he had seen, but their snug alcove in the rock was cold and empty.
Bran has a series of visions of Winterfell, the last of which involves a captive being killed in front of the weirwood. Show nested quote +
“No,” said Bran, “no, don’t,” but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth ... but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide,
Brandon Stark could taste the blood.
Point-by-Point Explanatoin + Show Spoiler +ungoogleable's Point-by-Point ExplanatoinI have to point out another one, although I know many of you won't like it: Jojen was sacrificed by the Children of the Forest and his blood was in the paste they fed to Bran. I've collected several passages supporting the theory. If you're skeptical, check them out first. The argument goes like this: - Jojen knows how and when he's going to die.
- When he gets to the cave, he becomes increasingly sullen, even though the cave is safe. If he knows when he's going to die and it isn't soon, then he has no reason to be afraid.
- When Bran gets it in his head that the Children are going to kill him, Jojen says "He is not the one who should be afraid." Who is it then that should be afraid of being killed by the Children?
- When Bran and Meera talk, we learn that Jojen is afraid. Meera is upset because Jojen will not even try to fight the fate he sees in his greendreams.
- Bran notes that the veins in the paste "looked remarkably like blood". This isn't conclusive on its own, but it's just one point among many.
- Bran has a vision of a human sacrifice at Winterfell. Why would Martin pick that moment to remind us that the Northern religion involves such sacrifices?
- The chapter ends with "Brandon Stark could taste the blood." This is literally a reference to Bran consuming human blood.
There are possible explanations for each point independently, but there's only really one explanation that fits all of them. I'd say it's at least as well established as the Frey Pie theory, yet it gets a lot less support. Direct links to his posts are in the quotes (the bolded titles).
Mind blown.
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On February 22 2012 09:01 KOFgokuon wrote:
WHAT THE FUCK
Oh I like this theory. I have not heard it before, but it makes some sense. It also make a lot of delicious, delicious strife to come between Bran (and whatever he is now) and Jojen's sister (assuming she is sticking around while Bran chills in the chair).
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On February 22 2012 09:38 Adron wrote:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/A5NG0.gif)
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On February 22 2012 09:01 KOFgokuon wrote:
WHAT THE FUCK
Srsly wtf. I can't deny how much all of that ties together and it is terrible.
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I refuse to believe this theory, its too fucked up, even for Martin. At least I hope so.
#7 (the taste of blood) could be explained as the memories of the weirwood. Its likely that blood sacrifices were used to activate/wake the weirwoods. Bran and Jon both tasted blood through warging into Summer/Ghost, it doesn't have to be a literal meaning of Bran eating blood.
The thought of Bran eating his only real friend is too... bah.
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Why oh why did I not see that........Oh god.
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It makes sense, I remember thinking something was up, but didn't connect all the dots.
I really am enjoying victarion's story, and hope he becomes a more main character in the next book.
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EPT
