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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On June 11 2014 03:56 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 03:46 ComaDose wrote:On June 11 2014 03:39 Dfgj wrote:On June 11 2014 03:29 ComaDose wrote:On June 11 2014 02:33 shark. wrote:
Man it'll be a shame if Sandor loses to Brienne. I always thought he was one of the best swordsman in the series and to lose to Brienne is just sad. I mean hes bigger, stronger, faster etc and in kinda bad shape atm, but Brienne? It's gonna hurt. If you think loosing to brienne is sad your power rankings are out of wack. GRRM said she's "maybe a bit shorter than the Hound", she was trained by ser Goodwin since childhood and she had to beat a suitor in single combat to stay out of dresses. Still against Loras Tyrell, the reigning tournament and crowed favorite, she beats him. Something that would probably be a challenge for a tip top shape Jamie considering Jamie lost to Loras in the joust last they met in a tournament, and Jamie calls him "too good and too young" later. Brienne also beat Jamie, and yeah he had a handicap of being starved and his hands tied but few others could have beaten him anyway. They are similar in size and while the Hound has more confirmed kills and emotional dirty fighting tactics, Brienne has more discipline and arguably more technical skill with the sword. Now that shes got legendary equipment and the Hound is injured i think its no contest. Brienne's good because she's big and has a lot of stamina. It makes sense she can beat a weak, chained, malnourished and atrophied Jaime because fighting someone that uses a lot of strength when you're tired/weak/unable to move properly is an absolutely miserable thing. The Hound is both bigger and stronger than her, meaning her only serious attribute is irrelevant - and he's better in every other way with vastly more combat experience. No idea where you get the idea she has more technical skill or discipline. Only edge she has is the sword (which while Valyrian, is also smaller), and, yeah, almost certainly better armor. I'd be pretty disappointed if they showed the Hound losing, in the same way they completely downplayed the fact that book-Brienne recognized Jaime was superior to her and instead had her mock him in the show. Joust results don't mean a lot in terms of combat skill, you think Loras would beat the Mountain in a duel? We have pretty little evidence for Loras's skill - and if we take show evidence, scrawny, small Loras also disarmed Brienne before getting tackled. jamie said "The wench is as strong as Gregor Clegane, though not so pretty" GRRM said shes almost as tall so its not like his height gives him an advantage. Why do you think he is better in every other way? Why don't you? He has tremendously more combat experience, both in duels and in war. He almost certainly has equal training to her. He's one of the few fighters who has the strength to stand up to the Mountain (S1E5), and strength equals speed, despite what Dark Souls would have you believe. Jaime can say what he likes in a state where he's comparatively incapable of fighting, especially when its a backhanded insult to her looks - do you genuinely think she's as strong as Gregor?
Strength doesn't equal speed or the mountain would be faster than oberyn. Brienne is almost as big and strong and talented if not more so and the only evidence measures them equally. Her most "serious attribute" would be her stamina. You can't make a top five fighters list without her for a reason and it's not "sad" for anyone to lose to her. With information in the book and the show there is no reason to believe the hound should landslide her. I don't know why you think you know better than Jamie about Loras fighting skills. I'd call it a tie without the legendary equipment and injured Hound.
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This is the book thread so I guess I can ask:
who poisoned jeorffry
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On June 11 2014 04:18 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 03:56 Dfgj wrote:On June 11 2014 03:46 ComaDose wrote:On June 11 2014 03:39 Dfgj wrote:On June 11 2014 03:29 ComaDose wrote:On June 11 2014 02:33 shark. wrote:
Man it'll be a shame if Sandor loses to Brienne. I always thought he was one of the best swordsman in the series and to lose to Brienne is just sad. I mean hes bigger, stronger, faster etc and in kinda bad shape atm, but Brienne? It's gonna hurt. If you think loosing to brienne is sad your power rankings are out of wack. GRRM said she's "maybe a bit shorter than the Hound", she was trained by ser Goodwin since childhood and she had to beat a suitor in single combat to stay out of dresses. Still against Loras Tyrell, the reigning tournament and crowed favorite, she beats him. Something that would probably be a challenge for a tip top shape Jamie considering Jamie lost to Loras in the joust last they met in a tournament, and Jamie calls him "too good and too young" later. Brienne also beat Jamie, and yeah he had a handicap of being starved and his hands tied but few others could have beaten him anyway. They are similar in size and while the Hound has more confirmed kills and emotional dirty fighting tactics, Brienne has more discipline and arguably more technical skill with the sword. Now that shes got legendary equipment and the Hound is injured i think its no contest. Brienne's good because she's big and has a lot of stamina. It makes sense she can beat a weak, chained, malnourished and atrophied Jaime because fighting someone that uses a lot of strength when you're tired/weak/unable to move properly is an absolutely miserable thing. The Hound is both bigger and stronger than her, meaning her only serious attribute is irrelevant - and he's better in every other way with vastly more combat experience. No idea where you get the idea she has more technical skill or discipline. Only edge she has is the sword (which while Valyrian, is also smaller), and, yeah, almost certainly better armor. I'd be pretty disappointed if they showed the Hound losing, in the same way they completely downplayed the fact that book-Brienne recognized Jaime was superior to her and instead had her mock him in the show. Joust results don't mean a lot in terms of combat skill, you think Loras would beat the Mountain in a duel? We have pretty little evidence for Loras's skill - and if we take show evidence, scrawny, small Loras also disarmed Brienne before getting tackled. jamie said "The wench is as strong as Gregor Clegane, though not so pretty" GRRM said shes almost as tall so its not like his height gives him an advantage. Why do you think he is better in every other way? Why don't you? He has tremendously more combat experience, both in duels and in war. He almost certainly has equal training to her. He's one of the few fighters who has the strength to stand up to the Mountain (S1E5), and strength equals speed, despite what Dark Souls would have you believe. Jaime can say what he likes in a state where he's comparatively incapable of fighting, especially when its a backhanded insult to her looks - do you genuinely think she's as strong as Gregor? Strength doesn't equal speed or the mountain would be faster than oberyn.
I'm curious what you think speed comes from if not muscle? Yes, there are diminishing returns when you're the size of someone like Gregor's actor (who had pretty clumsly and slow choreography, at that, compared to the flashy spinny antics of Oberyn's) - the Hound isn't a strongman, though.
In any case, we evidently disagree on the interpretation of what there is to interpret. I don't see Brienne as anything more than a larger/stronger/better-equipped than average person with solid training, who largely beats up inferior opponents so far. She's very capable as a fighter. She is not one of the Cleganes.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On June 11 2014 04:21 Incognoto wrote:
This is the book thread so I guess I can ask:
who poisoned jeorffry
tyrells+littlefinger
Olenna even talked about it in the TV series
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On June 11 2014 04:21 Incognoto wrote:
This is the book thread so I guess I can ask:
who poisoned jeorffry
Sansa, although indirectly. She is given a hairnet with purple crystals on it by the Drunken Knight (forget the characters name, he was only there to get Sansa out of Kings Landing). It is heavily suggested that those crystals were a poison called "The Strangler". It is later revealed that Littlefinger was responsible for the hair net.
Tyrells? I don't remember that part but I forgot who exactly put the poison in his drink. Could totally be true.
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On June 11 2014 04:21 Incognoto wrote:
This is the book thread so I guess I can ask:
who poisoned jeorffry
From book only we got hints that it was the queen of thornes.
But didn't the show basicly confirm that it was her and littlefinger?
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olenna tyrell put it in the drink. The necklace was given to sansa by ser dontos
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Sansa also pretty directly caused Joffrey's death because she told the truth about what he was like to the Tyrells during that dinner party. Doubt Olenna goes through with the plot to kill him if Sansa had said hes a nice guy.
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On June 11 2014 04:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
Sansa also pretty directly caused Joffrey's death because she told the truth about what he was like to the Tyrells during that dinner party. Doubt Olenna goes through with the plot to kill him if Sansa had said hes a nice guy.
There's no way that she and Margaery would have failed to realize it eventually no matter what Sansa said, though.
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Can some mod slap the last two guys in the other thread with a big trout, please?
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god how hard is it for people to NOT post like that
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On June 11 2014 04:25 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 04:18 ComaDose wrote:On June 11 2014 03:56 Dfgj wrote:On June 11 2014 03:46 ComaDose wrote:On June 11 2014 03:39 Dfgj wrote:On June 11 2014 03:29 ComaDose wrote:On June 11 2014 02:33 shark. wrote:
Man it'll be a shame if Sandor loses to Brienne. I always thought he was one of the best swordsman in the series and to lose to Brienne is just sad. I mean hes bigger, stronger, faster etc and in kinda bad shape atm, but Brienne? It's gonna hurt. If you think loosing to brienne is sad your power rankings are out of wack. GRRM said she's "maybe a bit shorter than the Hound", she was trained by ser Goodwin since childhood and she had to beat a suitor in single combat to stay out of dresses. Still against Loras Tyrell, the reigning tournament and crowed favorite, she beats him. Something that would probably be a challenge for a tip top shape Jamie considering Jamie lost to Loras in the joust last they met in a tournament, and Jamie calls him "too good and too young" later. Brienne also beat Jamie, and yeah he had a handicap of being starved and his hands tied but few others could have beaten him anyway. They are similar in size and while the Hound has more confirmed kills and emotional dirty fighting tactics, Brienne has more discipline and arguably more technical skill with the sword. Now that shes got legendary equipment and the Hound is injured i think its no contest. Brienne's good because she's big and has a lot of stamina. It makes sense she can beat a weak, chained, malnourished and atrophied Jaime because fighting someone that uses a lot of strength when you're tired/weak/unable to move properly is an absolutely miserable thing. The Hound is both bigger and stronger than her, meaning her only serious attribute is irrelevant - and he's better in every other way with vastly more combat experience. No idea where you get the idea she has more technical skill or discipline. Only edge she has is the sword (which while Valyrian, is also smaller), and, yeah, almost certainly better armor. I'd be pretty disappointed if they showed the Hound losing, in the same way they completely downplayed the fact that book-Brienne recognized Jaime was superior to her and instead had her mock him in the show. Joust results don't mean a lot in terms of combat skill, you think Loras would beat the Mountain in a duel? We have pretty little evidence for Loras's skill - and if we take show evidence, scrawny, small Loras also disarmed Brienne before getting tackled. jamie said "The wench is as strong as Gregor Clegane, though not so pretty" GRRM said shes almost as tall so its not like his height gives him an advantage. Why do you think he is better in every other way? Why don't you? He has tremendously more combat experience, both in duels and in war. He almost certainly has equal training to her. He's one of the few fighters who has the strength to stand up to the Mountain (S1E5), and strength equals speed, despite what Dark Souls would have you believe. Jaime can say what he likes in a state where he's comparatively incapable of fighting, especially when its a backhanded insult to her looks - do you genuinely think she's as strong as Gregor? Strength doesn't equal speed or the mountain would be faster than oberyn. I'm curious what you think speed comes from if not muscle? Yes, there are diminishing returns when you're the size of someone like Gregor's actor (who had pretty clumsly and slow choreography, at that, compared to the flashy spinny antics of Oberyn's) - the Hound isn't a strongman, though. In any case, we evidently disagree on the interpretation of what there is to interpret. I don't see Brienne as anything more than a larger/stronger/better-equipped than average person with solid training, who largely beats up inferior opponents so far. She's very capable as a fighter. She is not one of the Cleganes.
Well now you have equated strength to muscle. The speed of a limb or the tip of a sword is a combination of both reaction time and muscle contraction time. Muscles are largely composed of two broad types, slow twitch and fast twitch muscles and the composition is significant for how quickly they can contract. Of course all speed comes from muscle but assuming the weight of the limb and weapon is not burdening, raw lifting power isn't a major contributing factor. Oberyn isnt just flashier and spinny. he is faster. sandor clegane is "built like a bull", like a strongman, so he probably would have both a high ratio of fast twitch fibers and be past the point of diminishing returns for speed. I also never made any assertion about who was faster.
It's unfair to say brienne only beat up on inferior opponents while she is winning tournaments against every skilled fighter in the largest army in westeros at the time, and the Hound hasn't exactly had a challenge since stood up to his brother years ago. Last names don't make you better fighters. It's totally reasonable brienne would win because, like we have seen, every comparison between them across all available media compares them relatively equally. Also you can discredit beating loras as much as you want but its still quite the feat.
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wtf is this shit. I'm a book reader and I'm getting spoiled hard in this thread. Dang it.
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This thread is pretty much book + show + every single theory ever written on any GoT fansite
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We should put book-show discrepancies for upcoming episodes in spoilers in this thread.
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Zurich15361 Posts
3 threads: Book only, TV only, Book and TV.
Or just suck it up, book readers.
On June 11 2014 04:41 Conti wrote:
Can some mod slap the last two guys in the other thread with a big trout, please?
Please use report feature or PM a mod, "|the most recent post" isn't really useful in a thread that moves that fast.
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what are you guys talking about
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Two guys back to back were trying to hype up next episode for the people that thought 9 is always the climax.
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I'm fine with book and TV in this thread. But seeing spoilers for episode 10 for stuff that's not in the book (or at least published books) means it's a show spoiler for me.
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Germany25657 Posts
Oh no, they hyped up an episode, lets ban them.
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EPT
