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[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 519

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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire
Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
Spaylz
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan1743 Posts
June 06 2014 08:37 GMT
#10361
"Although my story is fantasy, it is strongly grounded in actual Medieval history. The War of the Roses was one of the major influences, which had the Yorks and the Lancasters instead of the Starks and the Lannisters. But I like to mix and match and move things around. As the famous saying goes; stealing from one source is plagiarism but stealing from lots of sources is research!"

http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/11/ten-tips-on-writing-a-fantasy-saga-from-game-of-thrones-author-george-r-r-martin/
I like words.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36399 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-06 08:42:50
June 06 2014 08:42 GMT
#10362
On June 06 2014 16:24 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 16:17 sc2holar wrote:
On June 06 2014 16:04 Geo.Rion wrote:
On June 06 2014 15:50 aZealot wrote:
On June 06 2014 01:35 andrewlt wrote:
I find it sad that there are a lot of people who accuse George Martin of having a nihilistic view of the world. Many of those people wouldn't say the same thing about other stories like Hunger Games and Divergent, sci-fi stories aimed at much younger audiences that show a really fucked up future.

I've noticed that mainstream Western audiences seem to prefer their sci-fi dystopian and their fantasy utopian. That mentality is just really weird to me. The medieval times sucked ass and George is just being faithful to the historical source material that provides inspiration for his setting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Roses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Spanish_Succession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years'_War

Almost every atrocity in the book has a historical parallel, sometimes multiple historical parallel. Seems to me like your average Westerner has a really, really warped view of the middle ages.


This is a very interesting observation. Thank you.

I've never watched the TV series, primarily because I don't see anything attractive in the glorification of violence in the show. However, I did enjoy the series very much until Feast for Crows where I thought GRRM was literally losing control of the story.

I hate it so much, i hate it with a passion this fucking need of some people to make parallels with IRL events and stories.
Just NO, NO, NO.
Yes, the Lannister-Stark war is inspired to some extent by the war of the roses. Yes, the Wall was inspired by Hadrian's Wall in UK, Ancient rome resembales Old Valyria etc.
Are Starks = Yorks? NO
Are Wildlings = Scottish? Absolutely fucking not.

Name any kind of dynastic twist, be that incest, fraticide, userping, King being puppeteered by advisors, Queen's family being dominant in the court, or anything else, I will give you an example for it from European history, because everything fucking happened except for Dragons. That doesnt mean GRRM took those events and made Westeros versions of it.

Sorry for the rant, not that the quoted post was specifically pronounced in favor of this line of thinking, but i had to get it out of my system.


Well some characters are in fact based on real people. For example GRRM has stated that Cersei is based on Isabella of france.
These parallels are interesting, why does it upset you that people like to talk about history?

u misunderstand, i hate the fact that ppl depict the events as parallels. Which they arent, they bare resembalance, sure, but it's not the adaptation of historic events. I also love to talk about history, but it diminishes GRRM's work to say the plot is parallel to medieval european history

actually what GRRM has said:
"Westeros is probably closer to medieval Britain than anything else. Geographically, it occupies a somewhat similar position off a larger contintent, although Westeros is considerably larger and is, in fact, a continent itself, more like South America. And although I've drawn on many parts of history, the War of the Roses is probably the one my story is closest to."
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
June 06 2014 08:45 GMT
#10363
So I take it the Hound has not / will not fight Beric?
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36399 Posts
June 06 2014 08:51 GMT
#10364
On June 06 2014 17:45 SK.Testie wrote:
So I take it the Hound has not / will not fight Beric?

if you're talking about the show, he already did

if you mean will he in the future, no idea, since its not even confirmed if hes dead or alive. but probably not considering beric's dead (giving his life for cat's)
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-06 09:28:14
June 06 2014 09:22 GMT
#10365
On June 06 2014 17:42 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 16:24 Geo.Rion wrote:
On June 06 2014 16:17 sc2holar wrote:
On June 06 2014 16:04 Geo.Rion wrote:
On June 06 2014 15:50 aZealot wrote:
On June 06 2014 01:35 andrewlt wrote:
I find it sad that there are a lot of people who accuse George Martin of having a nihilistic view of the world. Many of those people wouldn't say the same thing about other stories like Hunger Games and Divergent, sci-fi stories aimed at much younger audiences that show a really fucked up future.

I've noticed that mainstream Western audiences seem to prefer their sci-fi dystopian and their fantasy utopian. That mentality is just really weird to me. The medieval times sucked ass and George is just being faithful to the historical source material that provides inspiration for his setting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Roses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Spanish_Succession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years'_War

Almost every atrocity in the book has a historical parallel, sometimes multiple historical parallel. Seems to me like your average Westerner has a really, really warped view of the middle ages.


This is a very interesting observation. Thank you.

I've never watched the TV series, primarily because I don't see anything attractive in the glorification of violence in the show. However, I did enjoy the series very much until Feast for Crows where I thought GRRM was literally losing control of the story.

I hate it so much, i hate it with a passion this fucking need of some people to make parallels with IRL events and stories.
Just NO, NO, NO.
Yes, the Lannister-Stark war is inspired to some extent by the war of the roses. Yes, the Wall was inspired by Hadrian's Wall in UK, Ancient rome resembales Old Valyria etc.
Are Starks = Yorks? NO
Are Wildlings = Scottish? Absolutely fucking not.

Name any kind of dynastic twist, be that incest, fraticide, userping, King being puppeteered by advisors, Queen's family being dominant in the court, or anything else, I will give you an example for it from European history, because everything fucking happened except for Dragons. That doesnt mean GRRM took those events and made Westeros versions of it.

Sorry for the rant, not that the quoted post was specifically pronounced in favor of this line of thinking, but i had to get it out of my system.


Well some characters are in fact based on real people. For example GRRM has stated that Cersei is based on Isabella of france.
These parallels are interesting, why does it upset you that people like to talk about history?

u misunderstand, i hate the fact that ppl depict the events as parallels. Which they arent, they bare resembalance, sure, but it's not the adaptation of historic events. I also love to talk about history, but it diminishes GRRM's work to say the plot is parallel to medieval european history

actually what GRRM has said:
"Westeros is probably closer to medieval Britain than anything else. Geographically, it occupies a somewhat similar position off a larger contintent, although Westeros is considerably larger and is, in fact, a continent itself, more like South America. And although I've drawn on many parts of history, the War of the Roses is probably the one my story is closest to."

yep, exactly. GRRM aknowledges he draws from history, and the closest resemblance between the asoiaf plotlines and irl events is the war of the roses, and that s still not a parallel.

that s my point, not that GRRM makes everything up cuz he s brilliant. Basically:

inspired by =/= parallel =/= adaptation

and i dislike when someone says it s the same thing

EDIT: Monsen, u utterly missed my point
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-06 10:06:23
June 06 2014 10:05 GMT
#10366
So you wrote a rage filled caps lock post because of semantics. I don't like your chances of reaching middle age (intended).
11 years and counting- TL #680
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-06 10:28:45
June 06 2014 10:09 GMT
#10367
On June 06 2014 19:05 Monsen wrote:
So you wrote a rage filled caps lock post because of semantics. I don't like your chances of reaching middle age (intended).

you need to learn how to read, the only caps word in my post was NO. You really struggle with comprehending the essence of a post. Also google semantics, it seems u dont udnerstand that word either.
Feels like u just have an urge to contradict people and blow things out of proportions. U must be fun at parties

but i gotta give credit for ur insult, u called me a child and unfit to live in one word, very classy
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-06 10:33:40
June 06 2014 10:29 GMT
#10368
Yeah, you're right- I completely misread your post as rage filled. My confusing the amount of caps in your post with a post a few above yours completely invalidates my assertion of "rage filled".

"I hate it so much, i hate it with a passion this fucking need of some people to make parallels with IRL events and stories."

Also you might want to google "semantics" yourself. I'm pretty sure it applies to your "hate" for "people to make parallels with IRL events and stories" when you'd rather have them use the words "adaptation" or "inspired by".
And I am indeed fun at parties.

edit: Holy edit Batman. I didn't call you anything. First I'm pretty sure that "not reached middle age" does not equal "child" and second I was referring to your (in my eyes) unwarranted, unnecessary and pointless anger at something trivial that might lead to heart issues aka "not reaching middle age".
11 years and counting- TL #680
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-06 10:42:10
June 06 2014 10:32 GMT
#10369
On June 06 2014 19:29 Monsen wrote:
Yeah, you're right- I completely misread your post as rage filled. My confusing the amount of caps in your post with a post a few above yours completely invalidates my assertion of "rage filled".

"I hate it so much, i hate it with a passion this fucking need of some people to make parallels with IRL events and stories."

Also you might want to google "semantics" yourself. I'm pretty sure it applies to your "hate" for "people to make parallels with IRL events and stories" when you'd rather have them use the words "adaptation" or "inspired by".
And I am indeed fun at parties.

edit: Holy edit Batman. I didn't call you anything. First I'm pretty sure that "not reached middle age" does not equal "child" and second I was referring to your (in my eyes) unwarranted, unnecessary and pointless anger at something trivial that might lead to heart issues aka "not reaching middle age".

U are completly hopeless, it s like reasoning with a bible-group leader.
I write a rant about hating on opinions that claim the books are adaptations of IRL events and not only inspired by history (which thet obviously are). you call it rage and caps filled (which it wasnt) and explain ur insult as concern for my health. And to prove my point once agian u say parallel and inspiration are the same thing.
God....
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Spaylz
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan1743 Posts
June 06 2014 10:34 GMT
#10370
Maybe enough with that?

I say let's get back to the topic.

Given people's reaction to Oberyn's death, I wonder if they will actually be pleased with Tywin's death. He is a Lannister, but also a fan-favourite, mostly due to Charles Dance's amazing acting and presence.
I like words.
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
June 06 2014 10:42 GMT
#10371
Pretty sure relief of Tyrion surviving will outweigh that by far, also there's a sense of "justice serfed" to be had there.
But I agree, with Tywin/Charles Dance the show loses one of it's best characters/actors.
11 years and counting- TL #680
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-06 10:46:09
June 06 2014 10:45 GMT
#10372
On June 06 2014 19:34 Spaylz wrote:
Maybe enough with that?

I say let's get back to the topic.

Given people's reaction to Oberyn's death, I wonder if they will actually be pleased with Tywin's death. He is a Lannister, but also a fan-favourite, mostly due to Charles Dance's amazing acting and presence.

Right. I never cease to amaze of my own predisposition to get engaged in arguments over the internet.
/over
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
June 06 2014 10:50 GMT
#10373
Did the show ever explain what Tywin did to Tyrion when he was a child? IMO that's a big part of their whole relationship.
Revolutionist fan
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
June 06 2014 11:06 GMT
#10374
On June 06 2014 19:50 Salteador Neo wrote:
Did the show ever explain what Tywin did to Tyrion when he was a child? IMO that's a big part of their whole relationship.

Do you mean Tysha? That story yes, though not in this season. Not sure what u have in mind though, something before that?
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12463 Posts
June 06 2014 11:10 GMT
#10375
The thing is, the emphasis put on the history of the Middle Ages is one of the reasons why people keep thinking GRRM wants to write realistic fantasy, so I don't mind reacting strongly against that
No will to live, no wish to die
Vladix
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands227 Posts
June 06 2014 11:12 GMT
#10376
On June 06 2014 19:50 Salteador Neo wrote:
Did the show ever explain what Tywin did to Tyrion when he was a child? IMO that's a big part of their whole relationship.


Yes, but long ago and I think most viewers have forgotten it.
Koerage
Profile Joined April 2012
Netherlands1220 Posts
June 06 2014 11:31 GMT
#10377
On June 06 2014 20:12 Vladix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:50 Salteador Neo wrote:
Did the show ever explain what Tywin did to Tyrion when he was a child? IMO that's a big part of their whole relationship.


Yes, but long ago and I think most viewers have forgotten it.


Discussed it with someone else and we both expect them to repeat it when Jaime frees Tyrion (assuming its Jaime who frees him) so people understand it better.
We're also hoping for a "Wherever whores go" but we expect its not gonna be there
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
June 06 2014 11:50 GMT
#10378
Yeah, it was during that drinking game he played with Bronn and Shae. Funnily enough I remember Bronn saying "I would kill the man who did that to me.".
11 years and counting- TL #680
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
June 06 2014 12:41 GMT
#10379
On June 06 2014 20:31 Koerage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 20:12 Vladix wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:50 Salteador Neo wrote:
Did the show ever explain what Tywin did to Tyrion when he was a child? IMO that's a big part of their whole relationship.


Yes, but long ago and I think most viewers have forgotten it.


Discussed it with someone else and we both expect them to repeat it when Jaime frees Tyrion (assuming its Jaime who frees him) so people understand it better.
We're also hoping for a "Wherever whores go" but we expect its not gonna be there


I think it will be enough for them to show the scene with Bronn/Shae in the pre-episode recap and then have Jaime confess when he is freeing Tyrion.
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
June 06 2014 12:57 GMT
#10380
around 2 days and some couple of hours more! damn it i can't wait ! i want a stannis scene! and other forgotten guys scene
AKMU / IU
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