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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On February 12 2014 23:10 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 23:03 DODswe4 wrote:On February 12 2014 21:47 Conti wrote:On February 12 2014 10:04 Irrelevant Label wrote:
And whoever was leaking months ago that the dragons were speed up in their growth for this season is evidently a good source. That Drogon terrorizing a shepherd is as big as the more generous estimates of his size at the end of Dance. The producers have mentioned months ago that the dragons were growing faster than in the books. They were already growing faster in the last season, anyhow. It's awesome, but all these sped up storylines do make me wonder what the heck they're going to do for the next season. when the tv show catches up to the books, they will feel the pain of waiting several years for the next season to come or they diverge the story lines completly, that would be rather intresting (dont think they will do it but it would be interesting) Actually, I think that's exactly what they're going to do. They already know how it all ends, and they do have very competent writers who would be able to fill the gaps.
That would be a cold, merciless blade into my nerdy, weary heart.
I don't even want to begin to imagine the shear agony of watching the show finish before the books do, spoiling all the plot developments for the book readers in a cruel twist of fate. Watching the TV show viewers get the last laugh. My god. Honestly at this point I would be very happy if the show veered completely from the books and did its own thing.
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The Books are better, the TV show is good, but I find it funny how all these people are into something I was into so long ago, and they were all like this is crap....But hey I guess they are finally caught up and realized the Hobbit is amazing.
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On February 19 2014 14:15 HeeroFX wrote:
The Books are better, the TV show is good, but I find it funny how all these people are into something I was into so long ago, and they were all like this is crap....But hey I guess they are finally caught up and realized the Hobbit is amazing.
Mr. Underhill sends his regards.
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I've been watching some of the special features that came in the blu-rays! In order to act as a counter-balance to this enjoyable experience, I want to hear a commentary track of the episodes by the two people who run westeros.com and do recap videos of every episode : )
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There is a short clip in the Trailer where Theon looks healthy and is wearing armour. What is that all about?
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Zurich15366 Posts
I was wondering about that too. Could be the scene where he is convincing the islanders holding Moat Cailin to surrender, or something new they came up with.
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It's hard to say because in the show they have never specifically said that the Greyjoys took Moat Cailin, which is interesting because that was a major point in why Robb had no choice but to try and reconcile with the Frey's, so he could retake Moat Cailin and have access to the north again. In the show that was never discussed, and if the Iron Born don't have Moat Cailin then Robb could have just gone up the King's Road instead of using the Frey's bridge. In fact to my knowledge they haven't even mentioned the existance of Moat Cailin to this point.
Asha (Yara) was at Moat Caitin prior to her father's death in the book when she came back for the King's Moot, but in the show they are sending her to try and rescue Theon and Balon hasn't died yet, when he died prior to Robb in the book. Not sure how I feel about Yara's rescue plan. I mean if she cared enough to come back and rescue Theon above everything else, why not be more forceful in keeping him from being captured in the first place, or send men to help defend Winterfell...? She was pretty much like the book in caring more about not risking her men's lives more than Theon's fate told her he was staying in season 2.
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Yeah, not to mention that she is going to try to lay siege to the dreadfort with just 50 men. Good luck with that honey.
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On February 19 2014 14:01 itkovian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 23:10 Conti wrote:On February 12 2014 23:03 DODswe4 wrote:On February 12 2014 21:47 Conti wrote:On February 12 2014 10:04 Irrelevant Label wrote:
And whoever was leaking months ago that the dragons were speed up in their growth for this season is evidently a good source. That Drogon terrorizing a shepherd is as big as the more generous estimates of his size at the end of Dance. The producers have mentioned months ago that the dragons were growing faster than in the books. They were already growing faster in the last season, anyhow. It's awesome, but all these sped up storylines do make me wonder what the heck they're going to do for the next season. when the tv show catches up to the books, they will feel the pain of waiting several years for the next season to come or they diverge the story lines completly, that would be rather intresting (dont think they will do it but it would be interesting) Actually, I think that's exactly what they're going to do. They already know how it all ends, and they do have very competent writers who would be able to fill the gaps. That would be a cold, merciless blade into my nerdy, weary heart. I don't even want to begin to imagine the shear agony of watching the show finish before the books do, spoiling all the plot developments for the book readers in a cruel twist of fate. Watching the TV show viewers get the last laugh. My god. Honestly at this point I would be very happy if the show veered completely from the books and did its own thing.
Oh the show is going to plow ahead - pretty sure the creators already stated as such. Can't wait for the TV show to start spoiling for the book readers. What a twist!
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I remember seeing the Selmy chapter posted online somewhere. Can't seem to find it right now but it was actually the most interesting among the 3 sample chapters IMO.
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On February 25 2014 03:38 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 14:01 itkovian wrote:On February 12 2014 23:10 Conti wrote:On February 12 2014 23:03 DODswe4 wrote:On February 12 2014 21:47 Conti wrote:On February 12 2014 10:04 Irrelevant Label wrote:
And whoever was leaking months ago that the dragons were speed up in their growth for this season is evidently a good source. That Drogon terrorizing a shepherd is as big as the more generous estimates of his size at the end of Dance. The producers have mentioned months ago that the dragons were growing faster than in the books. They were already growing faster in the last season, anyhow. It's awesome, but all these sped up storylines do make me wonder what the heck they're going to do for the next season. when the tv show catches up to the books, they will feel the pain of waiting several years for the next season to come or they diverge the story lines completly, that would be rather intresting (dont think they will do it but it would be interesting) Actually, I think that's exactly what they're going to do. They already know how it all ends, and they do have very competent writers who would be able to fill the gaps. That would be a cold, merciless blade into my nerdy, weary heart. I don't even want to begin to imagine the shear agony of watching the show finish before the books do, spoiling all the plot developments for the book readers in a cruel twist of fate. Watching the TV show viewers get the last laugh. My god. Honestly at this point I would be very happy if the show veered completely from the books and did its own thing. Oh the show is going to plow ahead - pretty sure the creators already stated as such. Can't wait for the TV show to start spoiling for the book readers. What a twist!
Yeah, while it's been reported that HBO has put pressure on GRRM to finish the books ASAP, it seems likely they'll finish the series even if they're not out.
The issue I see with this is that while the major plot threads would certainly be known by the producers, the final series most likely would miss the rich detail from the books that normally makes it to the show. Or the writers would have to come up with their own, thus further differentiating the show from the books. I'm sitting on the fence for this one.
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On February 27 2014 09:55 c0ldfusion wrote:I remember seeing the Selmy chapter posted online somewhere. Can't seem to find it right now but it was actually the most interesting among the 3 sample chapters IMO.
I just failed to find the Selmy Chapters via a google search. But I stumbled upon a reading of a part of a Victarion chapter from the Winds of Winter:
Transcript
Youtube Video of GRRM's reading
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I think the theory that Doran intended Quentyn to fail might be right.
Doran tells his son to pick trustworthy companions and bring back Daenerys, while knowing that:
(1) Slaver's Bay is the centre of a bloody conflict and is a very dangerous destination
(2) The route to Slaver's Bay is filled with pirates and ... slavers.
(3) Daenerys, a ruler fighting a war, cannot suddenly sail away on a whim and abandon her current cause and supporters.
(4) His son is generally not viewed as a desired suitor.
(5) The party would include Quentyn's best friend, House Yronwood's heir, whose failure and/or death would weaken the rival house's position.
I think the pirate attack that the party suffers is suspicious. Three out of six members are killed, including Cletus (heir to House Yronwood, political danger) and maester Kedry (essential translator and guide). Their deaths seem very convenient, as the former weakens a rival house and the latter discourages the party from questing further, almost as if Doran wants Quentyn to give up at that point and return to Dorne.
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On March 05 2014 10:58 domane wrote:
I think the theory that Doran intended Quentyn to fail might be right.
Doran tells his son to pick trustworthy companions and bring back Daenerys, while knowing that:
(1) Slaver's Bay is the centre of a bloody conflict and is a very dangerous destination
(2) The route to Slaver's Bay is filled with pirates and ... slavers.
(3) Daenerys, a ruler fighting a war, cannot suddenly sail away on a whim and abandon her current cause and supporters.
(4) His son is generally not viewed as a desired suitor.
(5) The party would include Quentyn's best friend, House Yronwood's heir, whose failure and/or death would weaken the rival house's position.
I think the pirate attack that the party suffers is suspicious. Three out of six members are killed, including Cletus (heir to House Yronwood, political danger) and maester Kedry (essential translator and guide). Their deaths seem very convenient, as the former weakens a rival house and the latter discourages the party from questing further, almost as if Doran wants Quentyn to give up at that point and return to Dorne.
Why would Yronwood think to revolt at this point?
Also, if Doran expects Quentyn to return home empty handed then he doesn't know his son very well. That seems illogical as well.
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On March 06 2014 00:35 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2014 10:58 domane wrote:
I think the theory that Doran intended Quentyn to fail might be right.
Doran tells his son to pick trustworthy companions and bring back Daenerys, while knowing that:
(1) Slaver's Bay is the centre of a bloody conflict and is a very dangerous destination
(2) The route to Slaver's Bay is filled with pirates and ... slavers.
(3) Daenerys, a ruler fighting a war, cannot suddenly sail away on a whim and abandon her current cause and supporters.
(4) His son is generally not viewed as a desired suitor.
(5) The party would include Quentyn's best friend, House Yronwood's heir, whose failure and/or death would weaken the rival house's position.
I think the pirate attack that the party suffers is suspicious. Three out of six members are killed, including Cletus (heir to House Yronwood, political danger) and maester Kedry (essential translator and guide). Their deaths seem very convenient, as the former weakens a rival house and the latter discourages the party from questing further, almost as if Doran wants Quentyn to give up at that point and return to Dorne. Why would Yronwood think to revolt at this point? Also, if Doran expects Quentyn to return home empty handed then he doesn't know his son very well. That seems illogical as well.
I'm just thinking back on how every great lord has unruly bannermen "who envy his place". It makes sense for the lords to seize opportunities to cut them down to size, just as the unruly bannermen seek opportunities to usurp their place.
Perhaps it's the prince miscalculating and underestimating his son (or maybe Quentyn was meant to die with his party or maybe the entire theory is off).
There is enough basis to breed these conjectures. The prince places an awful lot of trust on a son raised by his rivals. The quest he gives his son (and his rivals by extension) is honestly poorly planned and risky for someone who`s supposed to be a meticulous strategist.
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moktira
Ireland1548 Posts
On March 06 2014 05:55 domane wrote:
The quest he gives his son (and his rivals by extension) is honestly poorly planned and risky for someone who`s supposed to be a meticulous strategist.
That's because it wasn't his main plan though. His plan was to marry his daughter to Viserys but when he heard Viserys was killed he had to change it. He had been years working on the former plan and he is still allied to the Targaryens. At this point Dorne hate the current rulers of the Seven Kingdoms and, as far as he knows, Daenerys is to only Targaryen left so is his best opportunity.
Also to send his only son on a highly dangerous mission that he knows is doomed to fail just to kill a rival's son seems rather extreme for someone who is such a brilliant strategist. There are easier ways to have someone killed and avoid suspicion.
Specifically on two points:
(3) Daenerys, a ruler fighting a war, cannot suddenly sail away on a whim and abandon her current cause and supporters. I'm not sure how much details he has on the situation (certainly not as much as us) but he's assuming Dany's plan is to take back the Seven Kingdoms. If you look at Dany's POV in the first book this was her plan, she was sure once she landed in Westeros her father's supporters would raise the Targaryen banners. So you would forgive him for thinking that Dany would drop everything and go back once she was sure told she had supporters.
(4) His son is generally not viewed as a desired suitor. This is a political marriage, it's not about whether Quentyn is particularly handsome, it's about what benefits both parties best and surely he genuinely believes that this is what is best for both of them. This is like Robb Stark arranging to marry that Frey for example.
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On March 06 2014 07:02 moktira wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2014 05:55 domane wrote:
The quest he gives his son (and his rivals by extension) is honestly poorly planned and risky for someone who`s supposed to be a meticulous strategist. That's because it wasn't his main plan though. His plan was to marry his daughter to Viserys but when he heard Viserys was killed he had to change it. He had been years working on the former plan and he is still allied to the Targaryens. At this point Dorne hate the current rulers of the Seven Kingdoms and, as far as he knows, Daenerys is to only Targaryen left so is his best opportunity. Also to send his only son on a highly dangerous mission that he knows is doomed to fail just to kill a rival's son seems rather extreme for someone who is such a brilliant strategist. There are easier ways to have someone killed and avoid suspicion. Specifically on two points: Show nested quote +(3) Daenerys, a ruler fighting a war, cannot suddenly sail away on a whim and abandon her current cause and supporters. I'm not sure how much details he has on the situation (certainly not as much as us) but he's assuming Dany's plan is to take back the Seven Kingdoms. If you look at Dany's POV in the first book this was her plan, she was sure once she landed in Westeros her father's supporters would raise the Targaryen banners. So you would forgive him for thinking that Dany would drop everything and go back once she was sure told she had supporters. This is a political marriage, it's not about whether Quentyn is particularly handsome, it's about what benefits both parties best and surely he genuinely believes that this is what is best for both of them. This is like Robb Stark arranging to marry that Frey for example.
(3) I'm wrong on this one. Yes, Doran would have only heard about Daenerys freeing slaves and laying waste, not trying to set up a kingdom.
(4) I'm aware. This despite the politics. I think Quentyn's appearance (and his timidness) is that much of a detriment when he's proposing to someone of Daenerys' status. Considering how he and other characters critique his looks repeatedly in the books, it must be bad enough.
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moktira
Ireland1548 Posts
Do you believe he did plan to have Arianne marry Viserys first? If yes then it would seem with Viserys' death that Daenerys was his only was of keeping his long term plan.
The other thing about the Yronwoods is that a lot of information we get about them is from Arianne's POV and she is biased as she believes it is their plan to have Quentyn installed as the Prince of Dorne. She is quite distrustful of them as a result. Doran might not have the same animosity to go to such lengths to have their heir killed. I think Doran even used the Yronwoods to delay Balon Swann which indicated they might not be on as bad terms as their houses were in the past. I must confess I need to do re-read though as I've forgotten a lot of details.
I don't know, of all the Dorne intrigue and conspiracies this one seems less likely to me.
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You know, I never realized (or maybe I don't remember thinking about this when it happened on the show), but exactly how does the show play out the "Loras to Kingsguard Post-Purple Wedding" situation.
There's no Garlan or Willas (assuming) in the show, so how would heir to The Reach play out?
Also, who is the current the holder/Lord of the Stormlands?
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