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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
That is because ASOIAF has the most misleading prologue ever.
I agree and think that's possibly the biggest weakness of the whole series so far, not just the prologue but the general anticipation that readers have after the first novel.
In the start of ASOIAF i personally thought there's going to be a lot more "high fantasy" in the book, because there's a lot of foreshadowing about the White Walkers, the Dragons, and so on, but they basically never play any major role even until now. After book one with Ned Starks death the series basically goes really deep into politics and all the dangerous mystic creatures and powers that are lurking around don't have the big impact you expect them to have.
I personally think that GRRM probably wanted to get into classical fantasy a little bit more as he started to write the series , but then figured it made more sense to write it the way he did . And i'm personally very glad that the story turned out as it did, because sure dragons and zombies are awesome, but most "high fantasy" novels lack some serious mature story lines and aren't very complex at all.
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On May 21 2013 06:51 Nyxisto wrote:I agree and think that's possibly the biggest weakness of the whole series so far, not just the prologue but the general anticipation that readers have after the first novel. In the start of ASOIAF i personally thought there's going to be a lot more "high fantasy" in the book, because there's a lot of foreshadowing about the White Walkers, the Dragons, and so on, but they basically never play any major role even until now. After book one with Ned Starks death the series basically goes really deep into politics and all the dangerous mystic creatures and powers that are lurking around don't have the big impact you expect them to have. I personally think that GRRM probably wanted to get into classical fantasy a little bit more as he started to write the series , but then figured it made more sense to write it the way he did . And i'm personally very glad that the story turned out as it did, because sure dragons and zombies are awesome, but most "high fantasy" novels lack some serious mature story lines and aren't very complex at all.
i think i read it in a interview that he didnt want magic and dragons at all but his wife convinced him to add magic and stuff.
but yes, i started book 3 when season 2 of got ended with white walker "invading the wall". so i got excited and wanted to see what happens, so i start book 3 and was so confused since there were no battles nor invasions from ww.
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Joff challenging Tywin I thought was clearly the meeting between Tywin/Joff/Cersei/Tyrion/Kevan where Joff calls Tywin a coward during Robert's Rebellion for not allowing him to demand Walder Frey for Robb's head so he could serve to Sansa during his wedding.
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On May 21 2013 06:43 armada[sb] wrote:
Everyone complains about nudity after an episode with a little bit of it, but forgets that multiple episodes go by without some.
3.8 - Melisandre and Gendry, Dany, and you could count the whore with the sellswords
3.7 - two whores with Theon, Rob and his wife
3.5 - Jon and Ygritte, Jaime and Brienne's backsides
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On May 21 2013 07:13 TheRealPaciFist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 06:43 armada[sb] wrote:
Everyone complains about nudity after an episode with a little bit of it, but forgets that multiple episodes go by without some. 3.8 - Melisandre and Gendry, Dany, and you could count the whore with the sellswords 3.7 - two whores with Theon, Rob and his wife 3.5 - Jon and Ygritte, Jaime and Brienne's backsides
Still not many. And most nudity is somewhat strengthening the scene somewhat. Unlike pointless scenes from Season1 and somewhat Season2.
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excessive sex scenes, unless its tyrion, i dislike but normal nudity from whores and whatnot are just details like a button on a shirt or filigree on a crown. if they wanted to hide and be careful of nudity (camera trick, change scene), why bother seeking out hbo in the first place?
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Maybe you should just wait a few years until you're no longer scared by seeing pee pee parts.
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I don't see how any of those scenes are unnecessary. They're showing how close Jon and Ygritte are becoming, and oh, god, people are naked in a bathhouse. Both of those are completely true to the books.
The two whores with Theon seems to rub everyone the wrong way but it's obvious that they're just showing how demented that Ramsay is, and if you wanna argue that it didn't happen in the book, you can't really because it's something that was implied but happened while Theon wasn't being given POV chapters.
Melisandre and Gendry is kind of an improv way for them to do the whole Edric Storm storyline, but they also need to show that Stannis is still Stannis and not completely under the control of Melisandre, and building up for Davos' convincing him to go to the Wall.
Mero's is the same as he was portrayed in the book, he's a crude man who enjoys sex and whores. Daario and Dany are going to hook up just like they did in the book, and I'm pretty sure they were just displaying her interest in him when she unabashedly stood up from the tub.
You want to complain about nudity, but these are all scenes that either happened in the book or were implied. The show has nudity, get over it. If nudity offends you then you need to not watch the show, but it's not just thrown in there for the sake of showing tits.
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i hope they make the RW the most brutal scene the show has ever seen.
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On May 20 2013 18:24 GwSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 16:33 Emon_ wrote:
The episode that says the b in subtle.
Cersei and Margery have a talk - A NORMAL FUCKING TALK - and Cersei tells her she'll kill her in her bed if she calls her sister again. . . WHAT? HAVE THE WRITERS READ THE BOOKS? Aren't they politely hostile all through book 5? Whatever. How much nudity can you fill one episode with? It's a shame that the focus is on flesh instead of the story. What kind of pervs do they think watch this show? Season 4 will be one big orgy. I say more clothes and more Greyjoys. What is dead shall never die and all that. gg Yeah that bit also struck me as way too blunt. I'm not really sure what the purpose of that was, I'm pretty sure the audience could see that Cersei and Margaery were rivals and certainly far from friendly without having it shoved in their faces. I would prefer that they kept Cersei more in line with the more subtle, scheming character she is in the books rather than just being like "IMMA KILL YOU MARG".
This was my favorite episode of the season so far...
But, with that said I too REALLY thought that bit was stupid. Cersei might not be the brightest of the bunch, but she knows to at least attempt to be subtle. She has nothing to gain by just stating she'll strangle Marge in her sleep.
With that said, the entire tyrion's wedding scene made up for it, and I had the best moment ever. While watching and seeing Joffrey approach Sansa a TV only watcher exclaimed "this is the worst wedding ever!" Us book readers gave eachother wry grins.
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On May 21 2013 06:22 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 03:28 TrickyGilligan wrote:On May 21 2013 02:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On May 21 2013 02:46 moopie wrote:
Wow the shit with the Other was really underwhelming. The more they show the Others in the show, the less their threat looks like it even matters. Ice cavemen, scary. Agreed 100%. Most importantly I think is the whole coldness-ambience factor when they approach isn't being portrayed at all. Yeah, what happened? I remembered them looking great from the Season 1 prologue. Huge, menacing, glowing eyes, armor, swords etc. Now they're old and mostly naked... it just doesn't look scary at all. Maybe I'm remembering that first episode wrong or maybe they only looked so awesome because we couldn't see much other than the glowing eyes. Either way, disappointed with how they look now. I always kind of pictured them looking similar to the twilight nazgul in lord of the rings. ![[image loading]](http://media.theiapolis.com/b000000/d4/hLC/i1ZAN/k4/l1ZX0/s6/t3/wSG/y04/the-nazgul.jpg?cdn=1369084776) I think not showing the slaughter at the fist really hurt the threat level of the others, along with having Sam be surrounded at the end of season 2, and then never explaining how he escaped. Now he has killed a White Walker, but we haven't SEEN a white walker kill anyone since episode one of season 1. No wonder so many non-readers think it's not a big deal that he killed one, and that their army is no threat.
Speaking from a book reader's perspective I thought the Slayer scene was good given the circumstances however you are entirely correct. Because we didn't get to see the battle at the Fist, the Others aren't as menacing as they could have been to show-viewers
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On May 21 2013 09:18 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 06:22 karazax wrote:On May 21 2013 03:28 TrickyGilligan wrote:On May 21 2013 02:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On May 21 2013 02:46 moopie wrote:
Wow the shit with the Other was really underwhelming. The more they show the Others in the show, the less their threat looks like it even matters. Ice cavemen, scary. Agreed 100%. Most importantly I think is the whole coldness-ambience factor when they approach isn't being portrayed at all. Yeah, what happened? I remembered them looking great from the Season 1 prologue. Huge, menacing, glowing eyes, armor, swords etc. Now they're old and mostly naked... it just doesn't look scary at all. Maybe I'm remembering that first episode wrong or maybe they only looked so awesome because we couldn't see much other than the glowing eyes. Either way, disappointed with how they look now. I always kind of pictured them looking similar to the twilight nazgul in lord of the rings. I think not showing the slaughter at the fist really hurt the threat level of the others, along with having Sam be surrounded at the end of season 2, and then never explaining how he escaped. Now he has killed a White Walker, but we haven't SEEN a white walker kill anyone since episode one of season 1. No wonder so many non-readers think it's not a big deal that he killed one, and that their army is no threat. Speaking from a book reader's perspective I thought the Slayer scene was good given the circumstances however you are entirely correct. Because we didn't get to see the battle at the Fist, the Others aren't as menacing as they could have been to show-viewers
I think it would have definitely been a good idea for them to have shown a cool cgi battle with WW's tearing through Crows like nothing, just so we have a better and more concrete idea as to their strength as viewers. What we're left with is whispers of their power and yet one has already been killed in a rather benign manner.
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On May 21 2013 08:45 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 18:24 GwSC wrote:On May 20 2013 16:33 Emon_ wrote:
The episode that says the b in subtle.
Cersei and Margery have a talk - A NORMAL FUCKING TALK - and Cersei tells her she'll kill her in her bed if she calls her sister again. . . WHAT? HAVE THE WRITERS READ THE BOOKS? Aren't they politely hostile all through book 5? Whatever. How much nudity can you fill one episode with? It's a shame that the focus is on flesh instead of the story. What kind of pervs do they think watch this show? Season 4 will be one big orgy. I say more clothes and more Greyjoys. What is dead shall never die and all that. gg Yeah that bit also struck me as way too blunt. I'm not really sure what the purpose of that was, I'm pretty sure the audience could see that Cersei and Margaery were rivals and certainly far from friendly without having it shoved in their faces. I would prefer that they kept Cersei more in line with the more subtle, scheming character she is in the books rather than just being like "IMMA KILL YOU MARG". This was my favorite episode of the season so far... But, with that said I too REALLY thought that bit was stupid. Cersei might not be the brightest of the bunch, but she knows to at least attempt to be subtle. She has nothing to gain by just stating she'll strangle Marge in her sleep. With that said, the entire tyrion's wedding scene made up for it, and I had the best moment ever. While watching and seeing Joffrey approach Sansa a TV only watcher exclaimed "this is the worst wedding ever!" Us book readers gave eachother wry grins.
I think Cersei in the TV show kind of gave up hope for reastablishing her own wishes over her father's and she only threatened Margery in frustration that she lost almost, or all of her power in the ''game of thrones''. I mean we see Joffrey ignoring her, Tywin not giving a single shit about her wishes, her advisors and guards are all paid by Tywin. I can't remember her being portrayed this weak in the book, but this was because she wasn't told to marry. I guess we won't be seeing much of her unfortunately if things are going this way.
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Not to mention the walkers had ARMOR in the books. The blade would be the only thing that could penetrate their ARMOR. And the ARMOR would make them not appear as some sort of ice savages but actually be able to look badass and menacing. Now they are some crossover between santa, a hobo and a corpse.
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Last episode was absolutely shitsuck horrible.
WTF.
S3 was looking so good, now this insult. Obviously i'll watch the red wedding but i'm on the verge of giving up on this. It's better if it's crap all through so we don't get our hopes up but to have this thrown in our faces after a line of really solid ep's. So disappointing, what, did they run out of everything? Money, time, actors, literate scriptwriters?
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On May 21 2013 09:59 Thrill wrote:
Last episode was absolutely shitsuck horrible.
WTF.
S3 was looking so good, now this insult. Obviously i'll watch the red wedding but i'm on the verge of giving up on this. It's better if it's crap all through so we don't get our hopes up but to have this thrown in our faces after a line of really solid ep's. So disappointing, what, did they run out of everything? Money, time, actors, literate scriptwriters?
How so?
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On May 21 2013 10:06 armada[sb] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 09:59 Thrill wrote:
Last episode was absolutely shitsuck horrible.
WTF.
S3 was looking so good, now this insult. Obviously i'll watch the red wedding but i'm on the verge of giving up on this. It's better if it's crap all through so we don't get our hopes up but to have this thrown in our faces after a line of really solid ep's. So disappointing, what, did they run out of everything? Money, time, actors, literate scriptwriters? How so?
Whoever OK'd the leech plot must have been on crack. A leech off of Gendrys cock causes the red wedding.
Daarios introduction completely fucked all the cred that was built around the Dany-arc. They had an opportunity of doing that arc a lot better than the books but instead hired an actor slash model (zoolander reference) and add a completely unbelievable intro scene.
They fucked the scale again. Sure, Tyrions wedding isn't the royal wedding but that was utterly pathetic.
Shae is used as a character, she's only supposed to be to us what she is to Tyrion. Now the affair with Tywin will seem completely out of place and unbelievable.
The scene with the walker was botched in every way imaginable.
Margery + Cersei conversation makes the Tommen match seem extremely out of place, especially given that the northern threat will be gone. Cersei looking overruled and powerless too early.
I can't even remember more right now but there wasn't a single redeeming factor the entire episode. Well, to be fair the Arya + Hound scene, but that one would have been hard to fuck up.
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On May 21 2013 10:28 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 10:06 armada[sb] wrote:On May 21 2013 09:59 Thrill wrote:
Last episode was absolutely shitsuck horrible.
WTF.
S3 was looking so good, now this insult. Obviously i'll watch the red wedding but i'm on the verge of giving up on this. It's better if it's crap all through so we don't get our hopes up but to have this thrown in our faces after a line of really solid ep's. So disappointing, what, did they run out of everything? Money, time, actors, literate scriptwriters? How so? Whoever OK'd the leech plot must have been on crack. A leech off of Gendrys cock causes the red wedding. Daarios introduction completely fucked all the cred that was built around the Dany-arc. They had an opportunity of doing that arc a lot better than the books but instead hired an actor slash model (zoolander reference) and add a completely unbelievable intro scene. They fucked the scale again. Sure, Tyrions wedding isn't the royal wedding but that was utterly pathetic. Shae is used as a character, she's only supposed to be to us what she is to Tyrion. Now the affair with Tywin will seem completely out of place and unbelievable. The scene with the walker was botched in every way imaginable. Margery + Cersei conversation makes the Tommen match seem extremely out of place, especially given that the northern threat will be gone. Cersei looking overruled and powerless too early. I can't even remember more right now but there wasn't a single redeeming factor the entire episode. Well, to be fair the Arya + Hound scene, but that was just following the book so..
The leeches dont cause anything. Well if you believe in the red god you believe that, but thats about it. Same as in the books.
Dont see what was so botched about Daario, but I guess thats personal taste.
Same with the wedding, didnt see a problem there.
We dont know how they will resolve the Shae plot. If they do it like I think they will (Tywin killing Shae, Tyrion avenging her) it would actually be more believable than in the books.
Didnt like WW scene that much either. But Sam attacking the Walker to protect the women kinda made more sense than in the books, were he just randomly seemed to find the courage to attack him.
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On May 21 2013 10:28 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 10:06 armada[sb] wrote:On May 21 2013 09:59 Thrill wrote:
Last episode was absolutely shitsuck horrible.
WTF.
S3 was looking so good, now this insult. Obviously i'll watch the red wedding but i'm on the verge of giving up on this. It's better if it's crap all through so we don't get our hopes up but to have this thrown in our faces after a line of really solid ep's. So disappointing, what, did they run out of everything? Money, time, actors, literate scriptwriters? How so? Whoever OK'd the leech plot must have been on crack. A leech off of Gendrys cock causes the red wedding. Daarios introduction completely fucked all the cred that was built around the Dany-arc. They had an opportunity of doing that arc a lot better than the books but instead hired an actor slash model (zoolander reference) and add a completely unbelievable intro scene. They fucked the scale again. Sure, Tyrions wedding isn't the royal wedding but that was utterly pathetic. Shae is used as a character, she's only supposed to be to us what she is to Tyrion. Now the affair with Tywin will seem completely out of place and unbelievable. The scene with the walker was botched in every way imaginable. I can't even remember more right now but there wasn't a single redeeming factor the entire episode.
I agree they could have saved a lot of useless screen time but just using the leeches on Stannis, too weak to make a shadow son but he can still do the leeches etc. Ever since Melissandre actually went and got him I've been frustrated with that...
Daario's intro didn't strike me as horrible Really, wasn't amazing granted but wasn't horrible.. kind of exactly what I expected them to do with the show. I'm gonna ive the actor an episode or two before I pass final judgement on their casting choice.
Tyrions wedding was supposed to be pathetic wasn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong as it has been a bit since I've read the third book, but wasn't Tyrion's wedding in the book a quick hush hush event in the gods woods with just enough eye witnesses to make it legit and undeniable?
Well I really couldn't believe it at first when I read in the book she was having an affair with Tywin so I don't see how that's a really big problem.
And I do agree the white walker scene was quite underwhelming and kind of frustrating but meh not the end of the world imo.
Overall I thought the episode was actually one of the better ones of the season...
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On May 21 2013 10:39 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 10:28 Thrill wrote:On May 21 2013 10:06 armada[sb] wrote:On May 21 2013 09:59 Thrill wrote:
Last episode was absolutely shitsuck horrible.
WTF.
S3 was looking so good, now this insult. Obviously i'll watch the red wedding but i'm on the verge of giving up on this. It's better if it's crap all through so we don't get our hopes up but to have this thrown in our faces after a line of really solid ep's. So disappointing, what, did they run out of everything? Money, time, actors, literate scriptwriters? How so? Whoever OK'd the leech plot must have been on crack. A leech off of Gendrys cock causes the red wedding. The leeches dont cause anything. Well if you believe in the red god you believe that, but thats about it. Same as in the books.
You know as well as i do that that's definitely not how the series has handled it.
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EPT
