EPTThe most plausabile scenarios for the letter are Mance sending it, or Stannis defeating the Freys with the help of the Manderlys, but sending back a group with the sword, to infrom Bolton that Stannis was defeated to trick him, and Ramsay believes it, and mocks Jon immediatly
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 297
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
The most plausabile scenarios for the letter are Mance sending it, or Stannis defeating the Freys with the help of the Manderlys, but sending back a group with the sword, to infrom Bolton that Stannis was defeated to trick him, and Ramsay believes it, and mocks Jon immediatly | ||
zatic
Zurich15361 Posts
 Those last Stannis chapters were among my favorite in the whole series. All the fighting seems so hopeless and pointless considering winter has finally come, yet he marches his entire army into death by freezing. And then he is sooooo close to Winterfell but just can't reach it. | ||
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ToT)OjKa(
Korea (South)2437 Posts
MARTIN DIES COME AT ME WINTER | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On May 03 2013 18:17 ToT)OjKa( wrote: If Stannis dies MARTIN DIES COME AT ME WINTER Tough guy, making this call in May  | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On May 03 2013 17:59 zatic wrote: Nah Stannis can't be dead Those last Stannis chapters were among my favorite in the whole series. All the fighting seems so hopeless and pointless considering winter has finally come, yet he marches his entire army into death by freezing. And then he is sooooo close to Winterfell but just can't reach it. TWoW spoiler + Show Spoiler + He isn't dead. There's already a Theon chapter out describing what's going on. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On May 03 2013 17:59 zatic wrote: Nah Stannis can't be dead Those last Stannis chapters were among my favorite in the whole series. All the fighting seems so hopeless and pointless considering winter has finally come, yet he marches his entire army into death by freezing. And then he is sooooo close to Winterfell but just can't reach it. come on, you know G.R.R.M better then this. He doesn't have a 'Maybe I should tip this guy's luck around button' | ||
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Serek
United Kingdom459 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On May 03 2013 18:33 heishe wrote: TWoW spoiler + Show Spoiler + He isn't dead. There's already a Theon chapter out describing what's going on. Another chapter or are you talking about the one that was released a long time ago? In that one nothing was certain. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On May 03 2013 18:34 Serek wrote: I don't think Myrcella will die necessarily, as long as she stays in Dorne. As the Lannister's power and influence diminishes there will be more pressure to rid the Iron Throne of them and the whole incest thing will come back at them with a vengeance. Tommen will probably die in the process (thus severing any links with Highgarden) and then the Throne will be ripe for the taking. Except the prophecy that Cersei will lose all her children. I believe Myrcella is as doomed as the rest of them. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18207 Posts
On May 03 2013 18:53 -Archangel- wrote: Except the prophecy that Cersei will lose all her children. I believe Myrcella is as doomed as the rest of them. Eh, the exact wording of the prophecy are ambiguous. Shrouds are usually, but not necessarily, burial shrouds. in this case Myrcella got horribly disfigured and could use a shroud to hide her face in public, thus fulfilling the prophecy (presuming Tommen dies). | ||
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ecstazy
Russian Federation59 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:36 moopie wrote: I want her to reflect on the crimes she has committed. The results of her insane attempt at conquest has most likely racked up a higher body count than each of the contenders in the Wot5K, or Tywin's for that matter, and she hasn't even gotten to Westeros yet. As for her father, yes she should reflect on the fact that her father was a fucking nutjob who enjoyed burning people alive, and that the majority of the kingdoms rallied to depose his ass. Maybe if she did she would stop threatning to come back when her dragons are grown and burn everyone that doesn't give her free shit just cause of her last name. What's the phrase? If you want to make an omelet, you have to break some eggs. Unlike the other contenders she did not have an army to begin with. She had to break more eggs to get it. I made a point that she is no worse than other rulers in terms of her morals. She is more reasonable than most and much closer to Robb or Ned than she is to Joffrey or Aerys. I did not state that she is a saint, merely that what she is doing makes perfect sense both morally and politically. She just came to a completely screwed up place that cannot be fixed, but she tried anyway. Nothing wrong with that. She can threaten with dragons as much as she wants, because she has the power to make her threats come true (although in the show they made it stupid when she wanted to get into Quarth - the book didn't have her as psycho). I'd say it's kind of her to attempt to achieve things with threats as opposed to straight up burning of her enemies. Others in her position (e.g. Aerys) may have not even bothered with diplomacy. On May 02 2013 18:31 ecstazy wrote: Astapor is not worse now than before Dany got there lol Ok it is worse. But only temporarily. Once the disease and stuff is cured, the worst that could happen is they go back to training unsullied. And it's not completely her fault - she did leave a priest, a scholar and a healer to rule. They just screwed up. She had completely good intentions, just didn't think it through properly. I'd call that one mistake as opposed to a consistent personality trait. | ||
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Doppelganger
488 Posts
On May 03 2013 11:22 Requizen wrote: Never stated. Bolton sent a crow saying that he had captured and killed Stannis, but in one of the preview chapters for the next book, Stannis is alive and well. It's likely that it's just a scare tactic from Roose and Ramsay. I expect Stannis to die at some point, but off screen in a dumb way is unlikely. TWOW spoilers! + Show Spoiler + We know from the released Theon chapter that the Karstarks betrayal of stannis was averted and that they have their ravens. Stannis plan was to win the battle, send a raven (of the karstarks) to Winterfell reporting that Stannis is dead and his army defeated. So the Boltons might have false informations regardind the well being of Stannis. Furthermore the boltons did only send parts of their forces (mainly Manderly and Freys) which would very likely spell doom for the Freys and give Stannis a great chance for winning if the Manderlys turn on the Freys. It is mainly a question of the timeline, when does the Theon Chapter take place compared to the ravens report to the wall? | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On May 03 2013 21:48 Doppelganger wrote: TWOW spoilers! + Show Spoiler + We know from the released Theon chapter that the Karstarks betrayal of stannis was averted and that they have their ravens. Stannis plan was to win the battle, send a raven (of the karstarks) to Winterfell reporting that Stannis is dead and his army defeated. So the Boltons might have false informations regardind the well being of Stannis. Furthermore the boltons did only send parts of their forces (mainly Manderly and Freys) which would very likely spell doom for the Freys and give Stannis a great chance for winning if the Manderlys turn on the Freys. It is mainly a question of the timeline, when does the Theon Chapter take place compared to the ravens report to the wall? As I stated, we don't know if Stannis is dead or not. Martin would be a fool to reveal something like that in a preview chapter | ||
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Deleted User 123474
292 Posts
On May 03 2013 21:48 Doppelganger wrote: TWOW spoilers! + Show Spoiler + We know from the released Theon chapter that the Karstarks betrayal of stannis was averted and that they have their ravens. Stannis plan was to win the battle, send a raven (of the karstarks) to Winterfell reporting that Stannis is dead and his army defeated. So the Boltons might have false informations regardind the well being of Stannis. Furthermore the boltons did only send parts of their forces (mainly Manderly and Freys) which would very likely spell doom for the Freys and give Stannis a great chance for winning if the Manderlys turn on the Freys. It is mainly a question of the timeline, when does the Theon Chapter take place compared to the ravens report to the wall? I consider myself a reasonably intelligent guy, but that is incomprehensible to me. Can you explain further? (I haven't read the Theon chapter, I don't think, but I'm fine with spoilers.) Specifically, you say "send a raven (of the Karstarks)," and mention that their "betrayal of Stannis was averted." Did the Karstarks send the raven, or was it sent by Stannis/unknown with the seal of the Karstarks and the Karstarks' raven? And how exactly was the betrayal averted? | ||
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Phil_Ken_Sebben
United States19 Posts
On May 04 2013 02:52 Komentaja wrote: I consider myself a reasonably intelligent guy, but that is incomprehensible to me. Can you explain further? (I haven't read the Theon chapter, I don't think, but I'm fine with spoilers.) Specifically, you say "send a raven (of the Karstarks)," and mention that their "betrayal of Stannis was averted." Did the Karstarks send the raven, or was it sent by Stannis/unknown with the seal of the Karstarks and the Karstarks' raven? And how exactly was the betrayal averted? + Show Spoiler [TWOW] + The Karstarks brought mutiple ravens trained to fly to Winterfell. Stannis interrogate the Karstark maester who reveals the betrayal and Stannis arrest the Karstark Lords. | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
On May 02 2013 08:57 bittman wrote: Legally it'd be Shireen right? Then again I'm not sure if legitimate female > bastard male. Edric is the only legitimised bastard of Robert's, so he'd probably be after Shireen. It probably reads: Tommen / Stannis > Myrcella / Shireen > Edric > other Robert bastards. If they all die, succession probably becomes far more unusual. Probably some really roundabout thing in the vein of how "Harry the Heir" is a potential successor to the Vale. Like Robert's cousins step-brother's son. The Baratheon line might be on of the less explored of all major houses. Re potential rulers: - Sansa & Harry (if that's what happens) have as much claim as Euron (which is to say: conquest). There's interesting discussions around about her becoming a player. - Cersei is a no. She is only Queen Regent at most, she has no legitimate claim to the throne, or just as much as Margery (which is very little). I have this theory that it might end as a somewhat democracy with all the kingdoms broken once again, but we'll see. I mean, there's some legitimately pure kids coming through as heirs to their kingdoms far sooner because of the war. The end could look a bit like: Theon, Tommen, Edric, Dany, Rickon, Sansa, Arianne & Margery on a council. Or something like that. You guys left out an option. There might not be a throne LEFT when all is said and done. Dany could come through and kill off half of Westeros through conquest and fire, and you've got Stannis and Snow trying to defend the North against Whitewalkers, but maybe the Lord of Light pisses off some Old Gods or Wargs or some shit and they end up dead, and all of Western human society just ends up falling to all sorts of magical creatures. The hope is that when things get desperate enough we'll see humans overcome their personal differences and grudges and band together to fight back and win (be cool to see people who hate each other being forced to work together), but you never know, everybody in all of freaking Westeros dying is definitely a possibility. But assuming that doesn't happen, right now I feel like the most likely option is some sort of union between a Tyson-advised Dany and a crippled-but-commanding Jon Snow (who discovers his Targaryean lineage), but there's no telling how Stannis or the Lord of Light or Dorne will play into this. And plus you have Arya running around learning the assassin bit, and I feel like she's going to end up killing all sorts of folk she thinks are bad folk and then she'll end up regretting some of them. E.g. Sansa will get killed off by someone who sees her or her husband as a threat, then Arya will kill the killer in revenge, but the killer will turn out to be the best shot at peace. | ||
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BallinWitStalin
1177 Posts
For her storyline, though, I think that everyone on her "list" is going to die without her even having to do any of it. She'll realize that death does come to all eventually, and that will be the moment she abandons Arya Stark as a persona and she'll become a faceless (wo)man. That's what I believe will happen. | ||
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Doppelganger
488 Posts
On May 04 2013 02:52 Komentaja wrote: I consider myself a reasonably intelligent guy, but that is incomprehensible to me. Can you explain further? (I haven't read the Theon chapter, I don't think, but I'm fine with spoilers.) Specifically, you say "send a raven (of the Karstarks)," and mention that their "betrayal of Stannis was averted." Did the Karstarks send the raven, or was it sent by Stannis/unknown with the seal of the Karstarks and the Karstarks' raven? And how exactly was the betrayal averted? Here is the Chapter (spoilers): http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/sample-chapter-from-winds-of-winter.207815997/ Super busy today. Thats all I can post. | ||
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Tjubatjubs
Sweden30 Posts
The title "A Song of Ice and Fire" are either symbolism for the battle of 2 gods and/or the story is more romantic, and it is a tragic love story of Jon and Daenerys. One forgotten god (perhaps the Many-Faced God or the Stranger) the other R'hllor. The cold darkness of oblivion vs the flame of life. Their manifestations being undead Whitewalkers against the Dragons. None of these are good gods just entities locked in an eternal struggle (at least until the heat death of the universe :p). It is just natural for humanity to favor warmth and life. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.". He appears to look at Dany then, as if seeing her, and then he adds that "There must be one more," and "The dragon has three heads." Rhaegar about Aegon. I feel that it is unlikely that Aegon will amount to much given him being recently revealed, so late in the books and how unlikeable and incapable he was portrayed. But perhaps he will live up to his namesake and conquer what is left of Westeros and rally the men vs the Whitewalkers. He might even marry Sansa to let the Targaryen bloodline last the book. Perhaps the POV characters are not really the main characters at all, and Aegon will sit on the Iron throne, and be the hero all future songs will be about. Yet we only get the POV of characters that happen to live at the same time as this legendary hero, and will only experience his glorious feats in hearsay? Would be interesting and unconventional at least. However, given that I think Lyanna is Jon's mother, Jon is the prince that was promised. His blood is of Stark and Targaryen, Ice and fire. Its pretty clear that the bloodlines is in fact somehow magical and Stark is the other oldest bloodline. So a union between these bloodlines would perhaps explain why Jon is such a Garry Sue. Melisandre will most likely revive Jon or he will warg into Stannis as some people mean this is why the Red woman sees Stannis as the chosen one in the flame. (The third head is most likely Tyrion because it would be cheesy as fuck and tasteless fanboys would gobble it all up.) The three heads is probably more that there are three real dragons. (I hate always have to take prophesies into account because they are always true. Fantasy is plagued by them.) GRRM has said that the ending will most likely be bittersweet, There is 2 major ending scenarios I think is plausible. First one is the more straightforward kinda cliche. Dany travels to Westeros and with the help of her dragons. Westeros is badly beaten up after loosing to the Whitewalkers so Dany joins Jon and fight them and saves the day with her dragons. They fall in love but soon learns that they are But hopefully GRRM is not so much Hollywood and have a better ending in store. The other ending I am playing with in my head is that Westeros is basically doomed. The scene from the TV series with the Ironthrone room destroyed and filled with snow is a very appealing image for me. It is pretty clear that GRRM is making all of the major houses getting destroyed or very weakened by the time for the Whitewalkers attack (or Dany). Stark is gone and the north is in civil war. Baratheon is severely weakened as Stannis have very few men left and the war with the Freys and Bolton will weaken him further. Baelish will start trouble in the Vale and Arryn has a very weak heir. The Riverlands is devastated by war. The Lannisters are more or less gone, Cersei will snap as she learns Kevan was shot by crossbow shots from a person of low height, as her Tyrion paranoia will finally make her go full crazy. Jaimy will probably resign as kingsguard after Cersei kills Tommen, and retreat back to Casterly Rock. The Tyrells have already begun to fall with Loras most likely a zombie or dead and Margary in trial. Tyrell will still try and hold their claim on the throne and fight against Aegon and Dorne. Dany will forge her own kingdom from Mereen and reestablish old Valyria. The book will end with her dieing without her ever seeing her beloved homeland. So what I think the story's message is that everyone is so caught up in all this scheming and warfare so it will just end in everyone's own demise when the Winter will finally come. | ||
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unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
I can't wait for the wedding! | ||
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