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[The International 6] Main Event - Day 3 - Page 75

Forum Index > Dota 2 Tournaments
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Sphaero
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany1697 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-10 22:17:40
August 10 2016 22:16 GMT
#1481
OK Kuro, please now another solid draft. In terms of execution Liquid has come online in the KO stages and is on aniother level this round.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
August 10 2016 22:16 GMT
#1482
On August 11 2016 07:15 Ufnal wrote:
Why such an early gg? O.o not Idra level, but wtf.


This wasnt a game they could turtle into turn around.
Kuroeeah
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
11696 Posts
August 10 2016 22:17 GMT
#1483
On August 11 2016 07:14 Achaian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:12 Kuroeeah wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:09 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:05 Zea! wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:00 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:47 bagels21 wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:45 Kuroeeah wrote:
[quote]
It doesn't matter, this TI is just so sloppy in general. The games look wild and some are even exciting but these teams are fucking up a lot, and every team made some baffling errors. I feel ALMOST sure that EHome is stronger than Wings and I'm still not sure if MVP is coin flipping their way to victory.


the meta is such a way now that perfect TI3 style Alliance play is not possible

Here's a secret for people with the rose-tinted glasses.

The larger the skill gap between teams, the better the winning team looks.

Alliance around TI3 looked "perfect" because they had a clean, methodical, efficient style that 14/15 other teams had no idea how to deal with, which let them do everything they wanted to do.

These days the skill level of the previous "dumpster" teams has risen immensely, and there is so competitive exposure to each team, that teams have to be far more adaptable and versatile than Alliance was.

TI5 CDEC disprove your statement.

Okay, should probably clarify "across an entire season".

There are still plenty of one-tournament wonders that can dominate within a week and across 20ish games.

But a team like Alliance that played the same style, more or less, across months all the way to TI and still dominate will likely never happen again.


Secret pre-TI5

And then got crushed in TI5 because they didn't move with the meta.

Which was my point...

They got crushed in TI5 because they fell apart in TI5, not because they didn't keep up with meta.

I agree, Secret played that meta really well, it's just the team fell apart and S4 missed all his ults on QoP that made them fail that year. This year's Secret lost because they devolved into becoming Mineski.


does no one remember when secret got figured out in the upper bracket by a chinese team with SD-Mirana destroying zai's offlane bristle

secret got figured out and failed to adapt

They lost to ehome pretty handedly but I can't really remember the series. I just recall the IG and VP games where it wasn't really their draft or meta that really caused Secret to stumble. Ehome was also just the better team in retrospect within TI5.
yotsuna
Profile Joined June 2011
Hong Kong186 Posts
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1484
Hao Spectre inc
faiza
Profile Joined June 2012
United States451 Posts
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1485
Newbee's early game is disastrous for whatever reason.
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1486
On August 11 2016 07:16 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:16 Laserist wrote:
Ban illusion heroes against Newbee and win? They had atrocious laning phase so far.

It's sand king, for fuck's sake, you can't win safelane against that+undying with melee core.


Ban SK then instead of oracle. Newbee stuck on their drafts it seems.Thought process: "We have to pick bat, ban oracle.."
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
Ufnal
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland1435 Posts
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1487
On August 11 2016 07:16 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:15 Ufnal wrote:
Why such an early gg? O.o not Idra level, but wtf.

Because this game Liquid can actually push towers.


Fair enough.
OG | Secret | Liquid | Nigma | Alliance | VP | Fnatic | EG | T1 | LGD
sunrazgriz
Profile Joined April 2015
Vatican City State1573 Posts
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1488
can liquid break the pattern , whoever win game 1 win series
6nnn
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1489
On August 11 2016 07:03 FFGenerations wrote:
ah you can burrowstrike through it. i dont think you can fs through it for some reason tho

Late to the party ( at work) but you can get skewered out of it by Magnus too. It has some of the weirdest interactions
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-10 22:19:28
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1490
yeah no idea why they didn't ban sandking. They got completly outplayed by it game1 and essentially won because liquid had no wincondition other than "let's just kill 3-4 people outside of their base, hope they don't have buyback and then kill their base". And now again, just this time with a lineup that can actually shoot towers down

I won't complain though o/
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
HammerKick
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
France6190 Posts
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1491
I love how they enable sound when they show newbee, assuming nobody understand what they said :D anyone has an idea?
Well, it's high noon somewhere in the world
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
August 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#1492
On August 11 2016 07:14 Achaian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:12 Kuroeeah wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:09 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:05 Zea! wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:00 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:47 bagels21 wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:45 Kuroeeah wrote:
[quote]
It doesn't matter, this TI is just so sloppy in general. The games look wild and some are even exciting but these teams are fucking up a lot, and every team made some baffling errors. I feel ALMOST sure that EHome is stronger than Wings and I'm still not sure if MVP is coin flipping their way to victory.


the meta is such a way now that perfect TI3 style Alliance play is not possible

Here's a secret for people with the rose-tinted glasses.

The larger the skill gap between teams, the better the winning team looks.

Alliance around TI3 looked "perfect" because they had a clean, methodical, efficient style that 14/15 other teams had no idea how to deal with, which let them do everything they wanted to do.

These days the skill level of the previous "dumpster" teams has risen immensely, and there is so competitive exposure to each team, that teams have to be far more adaptable and versatile than Alliance was.

TI5 CDEC disprove your statement.

Okay, should probably clarify "across an entire season".

There are still plenty of one-tournament wonders that can dominate within a week and across 20ish games.

But a team like Alliance that played the same style, more or less, across months all the way to TI and still dominate will likely never happen again.


Secret pre-TI5

And then got crushed in TI5 because they didn't move with the meta.

Which was my point...

They got crushed in TI5 because they fell apart in TI5, not because they didn't keep up with meta.

I agree, Secret played that meta really well, it's just the team fell apart and S4 missed all his ults on QoP that made them fail that year. This year's Secret lost because they devolved into becoming Mineski.


does no one remember when secret got figured out in the upper bracket by a chinese team with SD-Mirana destroying zai's offlane bristle

secret got figured out and failed to adapt

I don't remember anyone picking SD-Potm against Secret at TI5.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
August 10 2016 22:19 GMT
#1493
On August 11 2016 07:18 Laserist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:16 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:16 Laserist wrote:
Ban illusion heroes against Newbee and win? They had atrocious laning phase so far.

It's sand king, for fuck's sake, you can't win safelane against that+undying with melee core.


Ban SK then instead of oracle. Newbee stuck on their drafts it seems.Thought process: "We have to pick bat, ban oracle.."

Yeah, pretty much this.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
sunrazgriz
Profile Joined April 2015
Vatican City State1573 Posts
August 10 2016 22:19 GMT
#1494
On August 11 2016 07:18 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:14 Achaian wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:12 Kuroeeah wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:09 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:05 Zea! wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:00 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:47 bagels21 wrote:
[quote]

the meta is such a way now that perfect TI3 style Alliance play is not possible

Here's a secret for people with the rose-tinted glasses.

The larger the skill gap between teams, the better the winning team looks.

Alliance around TI3 looked "perfect" because they had a clean, methodical, efficient style that 14/15 other teams had no idea how to deal with, which let them do everything they wanted to do.

These days the skill level of the previous "dumpster" teams has risen immensely, and there is so competitive exposure to each team, that teams have to be far more adaptable and versatile than Alliance was.

TI5 CDEC disprove your statement.

Okay, should probably clarify "across an entire season".

There are still plenty of one-tournament wonders that can dominate within a week and across 20ish games.

But a team like Alliance that played the same style, more or less, across months all the way to TI and still dominate will likely never happen again.


Secret pre-TI5

And then got crushed in TI5 because they didn't move with the meta.

Which was my point...

They got crushed in TI5 because they fell apart in TI5, not because they didn't keep up with meta.

I agree, Secret played that meta really well, it's just the team fell apart and S4 missed all his ults on QoP that made them fail that year. This year's Secret lost because they devolved into becoming Mineski.


does no one remember when secret got figured out in the upper bracket by a chinese team with SD-Mirana destroying zai's offlane bristle

secret got figured out and failed to adapt

I don't remember anyone picking SD-Potm against Secret at TI5.

i remember RTZ want to play luna and feed
6nnn
CrazyBirdman
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany3509 Posts
August 10 2016 22:19 GMT
#1495
I am actually impressed Liquid wasn't completely tilted after game 1.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-10 22:20:53
August 10 2016 22:20 GMT
#1496
On August 11 2016 07:19 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:18 Laserist wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:16 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:16 Laserist wrote:
Ban illusion heroes against Newbee and win? They had atrocious laning phase so far.

It's sand king, for fuck's sake, you can't win safelane against that+undying with melee core.


Ban SK then instead of oracle. Newbee stuck on their drafts it seems.Thought process: "We have to pick bat, ban oracle.."

Yeah, pretty much this.

Jerax oracle is insane as well... and that leaves the whole getting huskar'd in the pool. But yeah I agree sandking has to be higher priority right now
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
August 10 2016 22:20 GMT
#1497
European pride in a bo1!
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
Daigoro
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany251 Posts
August 10 2016 22:21 GMT
#1498
Why is there a camera running durin Fnatics team discussion? I don't think thats a good idea for the team. Kind of like having a camera crew in the locker room during half time, never happens, at least not during championships
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
August 10 2016 22:21 GMT
#1499
On August 11 2016 07:19 sunrazgriz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:18 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:14 Achaian wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:12 Kuroeeah wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:09 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:05 Zea! wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:00 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
Here's a secret for people with the rose-tinted glasses.

The larger the skill gap between teams, the better the winning team looks.

Alliance around TI3 looked "perfect" because they had a clean, methodical, efficient style that 14/15 other teams had no idea how to deal with, which let them do everything they wanted to do.

These days the skill level of the previous "dumpster" teams has risen immensely, and there is so competitive exposure to each team, that teams have to be far more adaptable and versatile than Alliance was.

TI5 CDEC disprove your statement.

Okay, should probably clarify "across an entire season".

There are still plenty of one-tournament wonders that can dominate within a week and across 20ish games.

But a team like Alliance that played the same style, more or less, across months all the way to TI and still dominate will likely never happen again.


Secret pre-TI5

And then got crushed in TI5 because they didn't move with the meta.

Which was my point...

They got crushed in TI5 because they fell apart in TI5, not because they didn't keep up with meta.

I agree, Secret played that meta really well, it's just the team fell apart and S4 missed all his ults on QoP that made them fail that year. This year's Secret lost because they devolved into becoming Mineski.


does no one remember when secret got figured out in the upper bracket by a chinese team with SD-Mirana destroying zai's offlane bristle

secret got figured out and failed to adapt

I don't remember anyone picking SD-Potm against Secret at TI5.

i remember RTZ want to play luna and feed

Actually i remember Secret EHOME series.

First game they gave EHOME strongest pick you could think of in TI5 and then failed few fights.

Second game they... i don't remember second game, except Arteezy trying to rat it out.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
Kuroeeah
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
11696 Posts
August 10 2016 22:21 GMT
#1500
On August 11 2016 07:19 sunrazgriz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2016 07:18 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:14 Achaian wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:12 Kuroeeah wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:09 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:05 Zea! wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 11 2016 07:00 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 11 2016 06:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
Here's a secret for people with the rose-tinted glasses.

The larger the skill gap between teams, the better the winning team looks.

Alliance around TI3 looked "perfect" because they had a clean, methodical, efficient style that 14/15 other teams had no idea how to deal with, which let them do everything they wanted to do.

These days the skill level of the previous "dumpster" teams has risen immensely, and there is so competitive exposure to each team, that teams have to be far more adaptable and versatile than Alliance was.

TI5 CDEC disprove your statement.

Okay, should probably clarify "across an entire season".

There are still plenty of one-tournament wonders that can dominate within a week and across 20ish games.

But a team like Alliance that played the same style, more or less, across months all the way to TI and still dominate will likely never happen again.


Secret pre-TI5

And then got crushed in TI5 because they didn't move with the meta.

Which was my point...

They got crushed in TI5 because they fell apart in TI5, not because they didn't keep up with meta.

I agree, Secret played that meta really well, it's just the team fell apart and S4 missed all his ults on QoP that made them fail that year. This year's Secret lost because they devolved into becoming Mineski.


does no one remember when secret got figured out in the upper bracket by a chinese team with SD-Mirana destroying zai's offlane bristle

secret got figured out and failed to adapt

I don't remember anyone picking SD-Potm against Secret at TI5.

i remember RTZ want to play luna and feed

That TI was not RTZ's fault ROFL
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