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On May 16 2016 02:02 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2016 01:59 wuhan_clan wrote:
Swindlez has a point here but it's being misunderstood.
He is correct in saying that China teams can find the strong picks (that become meta picks) before other regions.
He is also correct in stating that Chinese teams almost never bring out a pocket strat in the middle of a tournament. They typically do not throw out a weird draft with heroes no where close to the meta.
Godz is also correct in saying that it's hard to lump all Chinese teams (or even Western teams) into one category. The old DK was absurdly versatile at drafting (under Lanm only) but teams who will take draft risks like that are very rare (even in the West). Most Chinese pocket picks have a tendency of exploding in their faces in the current yearly cycle. (Cty Dark Seer, never forget!)
Yeah.
One thing I forgot to mention was that pocket strats don't work more often than they do and only the most spectacular successes/failures get remembered (old C9 drafts).
I'd say the Chinese/Western differences were more apparent prior to 2014. Back then, the Chinese ACTUALLY didn't innovate at all but these days, almost everyone is willing to try different things.
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On May 16 2016 02:05 lolfail9001 wrote:
Kaka has no hero to play tho.
oh so it's kaka BM it seems
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
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btw where is azarkon now actually? Anyone checking when was his last post?
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man this is a fucking great rubick game
most of the spells are worth it
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it's a fine WD game, which would be an easy ban as well.
edit: alright. i had no clue they were running support bm lol.
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On May 16 2016 02:07 Gear 3rd wrote:
btw where is azarkon now actually? Anyone checking when was his last post?
he's on the panel man xD
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On May 16 2016 01:59 wuhan_clan wrote:
Swindlez has a point here but it's being misunderstood.
He is correct in saying that China teams can find the strong picks (that become meta picks) before other regions.
He is also correct in stating that Chinese teams almost never bring out a pocket strat in the middle of a tournament. They typically do not throw out a weird draft with heroes no where close to the meta.
Godz is also correct in saying that it's hard to lump all Chinese teams (or even Western teams) into one category. The old DK was absurdly versatile at drafting (under Lanm only) but teams who will take draft risks like that are very rare (even in the West).
if i must do a shitty generalization, this would be a typical situation:
top6 teams remain in big tourney, 4 chinese teams + 2 western teams:
when chinese playing against chinese, they dont need pocket strats, they know each other well enough that they would just just pick whatever that works, maybe some non-standard picks here and there, but it wont be 'surprise pick' level of kind of surprise; when chinese plays against western team, if they are not already beating them with proven X strat already, they would go for their best line up that they want and do their best, again, maybe some non-standard picks here and there, but it wont be 'surprise pick' level of kind of surprise.
when western teams try to win over a stronger chinese team, guess what? obviously they are going to try some 'pocket strat' lol, if they won, they are 'think outside of box', if they lost, nobody remembers anyway. and if western team plays against western team, yup, i dont remember what kind of groundbreaking strat they will use in such situation, same thing when chinese team vs chinese team, they know each other well what not to pick etc.
so a subpar player like swendle would think 'chinese teams don't bring up pocket strat in big match' actually holds some 'truth' but he got it from the worst possible observation.
tldr: west or east do the same shit, it depends what kind of tinted glasses do you wear
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Actually, now that I think about it some more, it seems like Lanm is the only Chinese drafter willing to take risks outside of the meta.
The only other examples I can think of off the top of my head was when Wings threw out core Veno at ESL Manila.
Swindlez's point might have more validity than it seems.
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On May 16 2016 02:07 Gear 3rd wrote:
btw where is azarkon now actually? Anyone checking when was his last post?
I wonder why.. Whoosh...
** X-Files music **
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Vatican City State1573 Posts
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On May 16 2016 02:08 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2016 01:59 wuhan_clan wrote:
Swindlez has a point here but it's being misunderstood.
He is correct in saying that China teams can find the strong picks (that become meta picks) before other regions.
He is also correct in stating that Chinese teams almost never bring out a pocket strat in the middle of a tournament. They typically do not throw out a weird draft with heroes no where close to the meta.
Godz is also correct in saying that it's hard to lump all Chinese teams (or even Western teams) into one category. The old DK was absurdly versatile at drafting (under Lanm only) but teams who will take draft risks like that are very rare (even in the West). if i must do a shitty generalization, this would be a typical situation: top6 teams remain in big tourney, 4 chinese teams + 2 western teams: when chinese playing against chinese, they dont need pocket strats, they know each other well enough that they would just just pick whatever that works, maybe some non-standard picks here and there, but it wont be 'surprise pick' level of kind of surprise; when chinese plays against western team, if they are not already beating them with proven X strat already, they would go for their best line up that they want and do their best, again, maybe some non-standard picks here and there, but it wont be 'surprise pick' level of kind of surprise. when western teams try to win over a stronger chinese team, guess what? obviously they are going to try some 'pocket strat' lol, if they won, they are 'think outside of box', if they lost, nobody remembers anyway. and if western team plays against western team, yup, i dont remember what kind of groundbreaking strat they will use in such situation, same thing when chinese team vs chinese team, they know each other well what not pick etc. so a subpar player like swendle would think 'chinese teams don't bring up pocket strat in big match' actually holds some 'truth' but he got it from the worst possible observation.
Are you trying to be Chinarkon?
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Ok now we actually have a game. Newbee has more initiation but puck and doom may become a problem.
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On May 16 2016 02:08 wuhan_clan wrote:
Actually, now that I think about it some more, it seems like Lanm is the only Chinese drafter willing to take risks outside of the meta.
The only other examples I can think of off the top of my head was when Wings threw out core Veno at ESL Manila.
Swindlez's point might have more validity than it seems.
Any maybe so do Azarkons points!
*X-File music intensifies*
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On May 16 2016 02:09 sunrazgriz wrote:
greedy draft from newbee
Well, offlane Naix and support Doom is pretty greedy as well.
EDIT: Over/under on tide level 2? i think 4 minutes.
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On May 16 2016 02:08 wuhan_clan wrote:
Actually, now that I think about it some more, it seems like Lanm is the only Chinese drafter willing to take risks outside of the meta.
The only other examples I can think of off the top of my head was when Wings threw out core Veno at ESL Manila.
Swindlez's point might have more validity than it seems.
Wings had been using Veno a bunch before ESL One Manila, apparently.
Fy did some good, interesting stuff at Starladder Invitational. He's the one to watch out for.
Also, Newbee is going to get hit by the nerf bat before the Manila Major.
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Sanya12364 Posts
I don't like Liquid in these kinds of battles.
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On May 16 2016 02:09 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2016 02:08 BurningSera wrote:On May 16 2016 01:59 wuhan_clan wrote:
Swindlez has a point here but it's being misunderstood.
He is correct in saying that China teams can find the strong picks (that become meta picks) before other regions.
He is also correct in stating that Chinese teams almost never bring out a pocket strat in the middle of a tournament. They typically do not throw out a weird draft with heroes no where close to the meta.
Godz is also correct in saying that it's hard to lump all Chinese teams (or even Western teams) into one category. The old DK was absurdly versatile at drafting (under Lanm only) but teams who will take draft risks like that are very rare (even in the West). if i must do a shitty generalization, this would be a typical situation: top6 teams remain in big tourney, 4 chinese teams + 2 western teams: when chinese playing against chinese, they dont need pocket strats, they know each other well enough that they would just just pick whatever that works, maybe some non-standard picks here and there, but it wont be 'surprise pick' level of kind of surprise; when chinese plays against western team, if they are not already beating them with proven X strat already, they would go for their best line up that they want and do their best, again, maybe some non-standard picks here and there, but it wont be 'surprise pick' level of kind of surprise. when western teams try to win over a stronger chinese team, guess what? obviously they are going to try some 'pocket strat' lol, if they won, they are 'think outside of box', if they lost, nobody remembers anyway. and if western team plays against western team, yup, i dont remember what kind of groundbreaking strat they will use in such situation, same thing when chinese team vs chinese team, they know each other well what not pick etc. so a subpar player like swendle would think 'chinese teams don't bring up pocket strat in big match' actually holds some 'truth' but he got it from the worst possible observation. Are you trying to be Chinarkon?
added tldr in the end just in case for that lol
like, seriously, top6 teams 4 chinese 2 west, what would do you in such underdog situation
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United States15275 Posts
I am still in disbelief that Frosty Toad allowed Iron Talon Beastmaster to be a thing.
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is this the 1st time MC play LD?
I don't remember him playing it before
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EPT
