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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/1/18/MarsTV2015.jpg) PLAYOFFS DAY 2http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/MarsTV_Dota_2_League/2015/Winter
Matches start in
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r9ZH0.png) Azubu: EnglishAzubu: Russianhuomao: Chinese
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xYABn.png) Match 1 starts on: Friday, Jan 29 2:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/b/b9/Newbeelogo_std.png)  Newbee vs Team Secret![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/a/a7/Secretdotalogo_std.png) Poll: Can Secret hold on or will Newbee show no mercy?Secret (21) 42% Newbee (20) 40% Coinflip (9) 18% 50 total votes Your vote: Can Secret hold on or will Newbee show no mercy? (Vote): Newbee
(Vote): Secret
(Vote): Coinflip
Match 2 starts on: Friday, Jan 29 5:30am GMT (GMT+00:00)![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/2/28/Eglogo_std.png) Evil Geniuses vs compLexity Gaming![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/f/fb/Complexitylogo_std.png) Poll: Who is after all the better "NA" team and makes it to the next round?EG (31) 70% compLexity (9) 20% Coinflip (4) 9% 44 total votes Your vote: Who is after all the better "NA" team and makes it to the next round? (Vote): EG
(Vote): compLexity
(Vote): Coinflip
Match 3 starts on: Friday, Jan 29 9:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/a/ad/Vglogo_std.png) Vici Gaming vs EHOME![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/3/3b/Ehomelogo_std.png) Poll: Which team is the bigger chinese powerhouse atm and makes the WBF?VG (27) 79% EHOME (5) 15% Coinflip (2) 6% 34 total votes Your vote: Which team is the bigger chinese powerhouse atm and makes the WBF? (Vote): VG
(Vote): EHOME
(Vote): Coinflip
Match 4 starts on: Friday, Jan 29 12:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00)![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/5/5c/Lgdlogo_std.png) LGD Gaming vs OG![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/a/a0/OGLogo_std.png) Poll: LGD vs OG, who has it still in them and makes the WBF?OG (31) 62% LGD (16) 32% Coinflip (3) 6% 50 total votes Your vote: LGD vs OG, who has it still in them and makes the WBF? (Vote): LGD
(Vote): OG
(Vote): Coinflip
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Time for EG to lose to a "NA" Team
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Does anyone know if the Losers' Round 1 matches are bo1 or bo3?
nvm judging by the 3hrs in-between the games looks like bo3.
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Voting with my heart and throwing in a vote for Complexity. Nothing would make me happier than a mostly swedish team being the best american team. 
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Meanwhile lets see if VG is gonna rip everybody apart. It seems so like it
On January 29 2016 02:27 Dysisa wrote:Voting with my heart and throwing in a vote for Complexity. Nothing would make me happier than a mostly swedish team being the best american team.
no way they are losing to coL ! (pls don't eg )
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no heart for faceless robots.
go col!
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I thought the first lower group games were single games? Why does it start so early today?
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In the games I've seen I've liked coL's drafts and even the way they've played for the most part. At least based on their games against Secret they may have some issues playing when the games get later but I think they have a good chance of at least playing a competitive series against EG.
Newbee vs Secret is hard to predict for me. Going to say Secret but they seem shaky enough that even a swift 2-0 for Newbee isn't out of the question if the early games go terribly, which they might.
Pretty confident about OG > LGD. I would assume VG > EHOME but EHOME have some wonky picks at times.
On January 29 2016 03:30 Azarkon wrote:
I thought the first lower group games were single games? Why does it start so early today?
Liquipedia was wrong at some point, they are all bo3. And I assume they start early because they have 4xbo3 to play.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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VG ehome LGD all in upper
East is back?
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
On January 29 2016 05:53 ch33psh33p wrote:
VG ehome LGD all in upper
East is back?
Just in time to take a month off for Chinese New Year and get stomped in home major anyway =D
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so are there anyway to watch the VODS, did BTS upload any? If not are there ways to watch "past streams" like you can on twitch?.
goddamnit why did they choose Azubu over twitch.
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United States13143 Posts
On January 29 2016 07:13 ref4 wrote:
so are there anyway to watch the VODS, did BTS upload any? If not are there ways to watch "past streams" like you can on twitch?.
goddamnit why did they choose Azubu over twitch.
presumably because azubu paid them
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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coL is a huge value bet today
they are looking so scary good right now, and EG is a mess if we're being nice.
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On January 29 2016 08:11 ch33psh33p wrote:
coL is a huge value bet today
they are looking so scary good right now, and EG is a mess if we're being nice.
I could not agree more.
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On January 29 2016 01:56 Nyan wrote:
Time for EG to lose to a "NA" Team
The way EG is playing, won't surprise me.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
time for EG beast mode lower bracket lets go artouuur
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On January 29 2016 07:13 ref4 wrote:
so are there anyway to watch the VODS, did BTS upload any? If not are there ways to watch "past streams" like you can on twitch?.
goddamnit why did they choose Azubu over twitch.
Not what you asked for, I know, but the ingame ticket's less than 2 euro.
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In case anyone was wondering
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good that i am still awake and drunk as all hell. i can watch swedes vs robots and hope that humanity wins with all my drunken heart.
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On January 29 2016 05:53 ch33psh33p wrote:
VG ehome LGD all in upper
East is back?
here fishy fishy
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On January 29 2016 10:52 brinepumps wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 05:53 ch33psh33p wrote:
VG ehome LGD all in upper
East is back? here fishy fishy
hhhehehe
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I'm sure Jacky Mao or EG will make a lower bracket run and win the whole thing
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This Needs more RTC HYPE
www.youtube.com
lets go, Win vs Col so you lose vs China and azarkon goes mad.
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I doubt secret can win this tournament at their current form.
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Germany3128 Posts
Was the sidebar wrong? Or did MDL change something? I just stayed up now to watch Secret 
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Secret match got pushed back to after col/eg
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On January 29 2016 11:03 DV G wrote:This Needs more RTC HYPE www.youtube.comlets go, Win vs Col so you lose vs China and azarkon goes mad.
what the fuck did i just watch
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lets be real here, regardless what happens we all hope for an complete azarkon fail so he wont post again until ti 7.
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What the fuck?
I stayed up until 2AM for this.
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On January 29 2016 11:13 FuzzyJAM wrote:What the fuck? I stayed up until 2AM for this.
for what?
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On January 29 2016 11:15 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 11:13 FuzzyJAM wrote:What the fuck? I stayed up until 2AM for this. for what?
For Secret. And then rescheduling. Sadface.
Guess I'll go to bed.
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4665 Posts
Don't forget to pick up your euls,swindle
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Anyone Pros casting on twitch?
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Cascadia1753 Posts
Is this game going to start ever?
beyond the schedule.
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Germany3128 Posts
On January 29 2016 11:08 Verniy wrote:what the fuck did i just watch
it's a classic
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On January 29 2016 11:15 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 11:13 FuzzyJAM wrote:What the fuck? I stayed up until 2AM for this. for what?
he just said for this
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shameless enchantress pick to start off
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4665 Posts
Leshrac fp .col on suicide watch if this isn't push start with edict max lesh
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On January 29 2016 11:31 Kamisamanachi wrote:
Leshrac fp .col on suicide watch if this isn't push start with edict max lesh
They've run it as support a few times to pretty good success this patch in NA tournaments.
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4665 Posts
On January 29 2016 11:33 the bear jew wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 11:31 Kamisamanachi wrote:
Leshrac fp .col on suicide watch if this isn't push start with edict max lesh They've run it as support a few times to pretty good success this patch in NA tournaments.
Yea.it works super good if u are aiming for early pushes with ta or chen
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This tournament not in-game on dota tv anywhere?
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Nice to see ppd getting pretty much a free draft for some comfort heroes for the team. A good place to start.
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And Fear is showing Complexity why you ban Earth Spirit.
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old man wrecking some lanes
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how do you miss the lesh kill wtf
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What's up with Complexity's draft tho, that seems like a horrible draft IMO
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On January 29 2016 11:38 Jonoman92 wrote:
This tournament not in-game on dota tv anywhere?
It's not coming up in client for me
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On January 29 2016 11:51 hfglgg wrote:
did they start early?
hahahahaha
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4-5 man Chrono... while Universe is well alone. Credit where it's due?
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Shouldn't Arteezy go for the Deso for that sweet minus armor instead of possible orchid?
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On January 29 2016 11:57 Danzo wrote:
Shouldn't Arteezy go for the Deso for that sweet minus armor instead of possible orchid?
orchid helps with his map sustainability from the int + mana regen. it's a hybrid farming item for clinkz
edit: looks like it wasn't orchid :D
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ok what was rtzs plan there? check if they are there and if they are i am dead cause luna?
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On January 29 2016 12:05 hfglgg wrote:
ok what was rtzs plan there? check if they are there and if they are i am dead cause luna?
They played that well. No auto attacks so he wasn't sure if they saw him or not, and the Torrent was the only stun that would actually stop the BKB pop before he'd lost half his health.
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On January 29 2016 12:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:05 hfglgg wrote:
ok what was rtzs plan there? check if they are there and if they are i am dead cause luna? They played that well. No auto attacks so he wasn't sure if they saw him or not, and the Torrent was the only stun that would actually stop the BKB pop before he'd lost half his health.
he went into the roshpit alone with no backup. yeah if col doesnt have a sentry there against a clinkz it works, but no it never works in a real game.
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It still strikes me that someone will figure out a way to build Enchantress into a draft that's going to be pure cancer. Not sure what it'll be, but it still seems like it could be setup like Huskar from last patch.
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On January 29 2016 12:13 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 29 2016 12:05 hfglgg wrote:
ok what was rtzs plan there? check if they are there and if they are i am dead cause luna? They played that well. No auto attacks so he wasn't sure if they saw him or not, and the Torrent was the only stun that would actually stop the BKB pop before he'd lost half his health. he went into the roshpit alone with no backup. yeah if col doesnt have a sentry there against a clinkz it works, but no it never works in a real game.
He doesn't need backup against Lesh and a Luna with no right click yet. You get spotted, you pop BKB, you won't come close to dying until the rest of your team gets there.
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On January 29 2016 12:14 Taf the Ghost wrote:
It still strikes me that someone will figure out a way to build Enchantress into a draft that's going to be pure cancer. Not sure what it'll be, but it still seems like it could be setup like Huskar from last patch.
the strat is to pick enchantress and huskar together
huskar = unkillable by magic
enchantress = unkillable by physical
so no matter what they pick one of them is unkillable
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On January 29 2016 12:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:13 hfglgg wrote:On January 29 2016 12:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 29 2016 12:05 hfglgg wrote:
ok what was rtzs plan there? check if they are there and if they are i am dead cause luna? They played that well. No auto attacks so he wasn't sure if they saw him or not, and the Torrent was the only stun that would actually stop the BKB pop before he'd lost half his health. he went into the roshpit alone with no backup. yeah if col doesnt have a sentry there against a clinkz it works, but no it never works in a real game. He doesn't need backup against Lesh and a Luna with no right click yet. You get spotted, you pop BKB, you won't come close to dying until the rest of your team gets there.
if luna clicks R he is dead.
edit: didnt he pick the bkb up only after the fight? if he had bkb the move was understandable.
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On January 29 2016 12:16 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 29 2016 12:13 hfglgg wrote:On January 29 2016 12:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 29 2016 12:05 hfglgg wrote:
ok what was rtzs plan there? check if they are there and if they are i am dead cause luna? They played that well. No auto attacks so he wasn't sure if they saw him or not, and the Torrent was the only stun that would actually stop the BKB pop before he'd lost half his health. he went into the roshpit alone with no backup. yeah if col doesnt have a sentry there against a clinkz it works, but no it never works in a real game. He doesn't need backup against Lesh and a Luna with no right click yet. You get spotted, you pop BKB, you won't come close to dying until the rest of your team gets there. if luna clicks R he is dead.
luna's R does nothing unless he's stunned. the entire exchange comes down to if they stun rtz before he knows they know, and they played it well to get the raw stun on him without showing they knew he was there
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On January 29 2016 12:15 Verniy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:14 Taf the Ghost wrote:
It still strikes me that someone will figure out a way to build Enchantress into a draft that's going to be pure cancer. Not sure what it'll be, but it still seems like it could be setup like Huskar from last patch. the strat is to pick enchantress and huskar together huskar = unkillable by magic enchantress = unkillable by physical so no matter what they pick one of them is unkillable
What does Enchantress do with Oracle's Fate's Edict? (Magic Immunity) Huskar + Enchantress + Chen + Oracle + some mid laner. 
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On January 29 2016 12:18 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:15 Verniy wrote:On January 29 2016 12:14 Taf the Ghost wrote:
It still strikes me that someone will figure out a way to build Enchantress into a draft that's going to be pure cancer. Not sure what it'll be, but it still seems like it could be setup like Huskar from last patch. the strat is to pick enchantress and huskar together huskar = unkillable by magic enchantress = unkillable by physical so no matter what they pick one of them is unkillable What does Enchantress do with Oracle's Fate's Edict? (Magic Immunity) Huskar + Enchantress + Chen + Oracle + some mid laner.
Mid Rubick for magic resist aura and lulz/
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coL's best bet is to give playmaking heroes to their mid/carry. Viper luna are too easy to play around.
PPD was able to farm deep on the enemy safelane as a solo AA for like 5 minutes. that's how easy it was for EG to play around their slow 5-man
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welp col please win one game to cover
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ppd pretty much got a "free" draft, given the first phase picks & bans. That won't happen again this tournament, probably, haha.
Oh, and with a Clinkz pick, we're up to 84 Heroes picked so far.
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Is there anyone streaming the BTS cast on a site other than Azubu?
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On January 29 2016 12:26 plasmidghost wrote:
Is there anyone streaming the BTS cast on a site other than Azubu?
I'm using livestreamer to stream it in my media player, it's quite pleasant
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Livestreamer as well.
And Complexity learned from game 1. But, really, Batrider isn't the ban, either.
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On January 29 2016 12:16 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:15 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 29 2016 12:13 hfglgg wrote:On January 29 2016 12:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 29 2016 12:05 hfglgg wrote:
ok what was rtzs plan there? check if they are there and if they are i am dead cause luna? They played that well. No auto attacks so he wasn't sure if they saw him or not, and the Torrent was the only stun that would actually stop the BKB pop before he'd lost half his health. he went into the roshpit alone with no backup. yeah if col doesnt have a sentry there against a clinkz it works, but no it never works in a real game. He doesn't need backup against Lesh and a Luna with no right click yet. You get spotted, you pop BKB, you won't come close to dying until the rest of your team gets there. if luna clicks R he is dead. edit: didnt he pick the bkb up only after the fight? if he had bkb the move was understandable.
Pretty sure he had BKB for like 5 minutes before that even happened.
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Hrmm... what is ppd is going to run Arteezy on...
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Nice to see the Clinkz pick up, I do believe the hero is strong and under picked.
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Umm... Arteezy Nature's Prophet? Does he have something up his sleeve?
Edit: Nature's Prophet is 0-4 at MDL.
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so EG needs to start getting furion involved really fast
like TI4 rotk furion style
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RTZ is 8-3 on Nature's Prophet all time.
Huh, well, we'll see.
Edit: Is there some Hard, Right-Click build on NP? Something that goes well with Faceless Void?
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not really sure what EG's draft is supposed to accomplish this game
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On January 29 2016 12:43 shizaep wrote:
not really sure what EG's draft is supposed to accomplish this game
kill with chrono + invoker, then chase and catch to clean up. sumail and universe are the key, and Fear will be in charge of vision to set them up
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On January 29 2016 12:43 shizaep wrote:
not really sure what EG's draft is supposed to accomplish this game
Global Presence pick-offs into snowballing the Invoker?
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see rtz can totally play like rotk
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This is going to be a little odd to say, but I think ppd intentionally drafting a comfortable hero for himself might be the key to all of this. Their coordination has improved a lot from the last two days.
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Awesome, I now have a lag-free experience, thanks for showing me what to do
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I bet idiots in pubs are going to do hard carry Furion now
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On January 29 2016 12:58 plasmidghost wrote:
I bet idiots in pubs are going to do hard carry Furion now
...and then not TP to fights because they need to farm.
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New Time Walk good spell.
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On January 29 2016 12:59 ASoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:58 plasmidghost wrote:
I bet idiots in pubs are going to do hard carry Furion now ...and then not TP to fights because they need to farm.
so basically nothing new
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On January 29 2016 13:06 Verniy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:59 ASoo wrote:On January 29 2016 12:58 plasmidghost wrote:
I bet idiots in pubs are going to do hard carry Furion now ...and then not TP to fights because they need to farm. so basically nothing new
Well, before this, it was mostly offlane Furions not TP'ing to fights in my pubs.
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On January 29 2016 12:58 plasmidghost wrote:
I bet idiots in pubs are going to do hard carry Furion now
there will be more furion but im sure they are still jungling
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Miss Chrono > wreck fight.
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Holy shit Sumail's death bounty was 1918 gold
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alright guys col is who we thought they were
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Standard run for PPD: get down to lower, win easily.
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Some more thought on Support play in this meta:
It seems like you either need to go with either hard roamers/gankers or heavy heals/sustain. Obviously, Earth Spirit is King of the Gankers right now, but either setup can work. Depending a bit on how you handle your 1/2/3 positions.
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On January 29 2016 13:13 Azarkon wrote:
Standard run for PPD: get down to lower, win easily.
Not quite sure it was a standard run. A lot of the guys weren't playing too well the last two days. ppd included.
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On January 29 2016 13:15 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 13:13 Azarkon wrote:
Standard run for PPD: get down to lower, win easily. Not quite sure it was a standard run. A lot of the guys weren't playing too well the last two days. ppd included.
But they're playing well now. That's why it's normal.
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On January 29 2016 13:17 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 13:15 Taf the Ghost wrote:On January 29 2016 13:13 Azarkon wrote:
Standard run for PPD: get down to lower, win easily. Not quite sure it was a standard run. A lot of the guys weren't playing too well the last two days. ppd included. But they're playing well now. That's why it's normal.
but the western domination that was supposed to happen during group stage?
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On January 29 2016 13:19 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 13:17 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 13:15 Taf the Ghost wrote:On January 29 2016 13:13 Azarkon wrote:
Standard run for PPD: get down to lower, win easily. Not quite sure it was a standard run. A lot of the guys weren't playing too well the last two days. ppd included. But they're playing well now. That's why it's normal. but the western domination that was supposed to happen during group stage?
Does the West usually win groups? I don't remember it being so.
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if Secret ends up C9ing this shit im just gonna cry
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anyone know if secret vs newbee is actually in an hour? or starting soon?
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Complexity had some good games in the group stage. Just have to tighten things up and I think they can do well at Shanghai.
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Before we switch to the next set of matches, one of the wackier parts of this format is that getting 2nd/3rd in group really isn't all that great. Because it's going to produce 2 more teams that drop to the lower bracket to play the 4th place teams, having to play 1 more game than they would normally play. It's pretty funky of a format, in that way.
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On January 29 2016 13:13 Azarkon wrote:
Standard run for PPD: get down to lower, win easily.
Already knew they weren't terrible enough to lose to bad teams.
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On January 29 2016 13:23 the bear jew wrote:
Complexity had some good games in the group stage. Just have to tighten things up and I think they can do well at Shanghai.
It was a big improvement for Complexity, after Starladder. Which is what they needed. They took 3 games off Tier 1 competition on LAN. Sure, they go out first here, but the entire biggest prizes are at Shanghai and they've positioned themselves to be prepared.
And that's not a joke on the prize pool. 9th/12th at the Major should be worth roughly 2nd prize at MDL. 7th/8th worth about the same as winning MDL.
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On January 29 2016 13:21 ymir233 wrote:
if Secret ends up C9ing this shit im just gonna cry
You are gonna cry hahhaa
(don't worry you are not alone lol)
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On January 29 2016 13:39 goody153 wrote:You are gonna cry hahhaa (don't worry you are not alone lol)
don't stop believing
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Considering Newbee's considerable high ground breaking problems, could Secret just draft a defensive line up to hold high ground and anti-mage both games?
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I guess they'll be starting at the designated time? I guess I can't complain if they're following their schedule, lol.
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havent you stopped believing before bagels
or maybe i have you confused with another ex c9 fan
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On January 29 2016 14:03 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
havent you stopped believing before bagels
or maybe i have you confused with another ex c9 fan
bagels and plasmidghost gave up their faith at one point
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On January 29 2016 14:03 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
havent you stopped believing before bagels
or maybe i have you confused with another ex c9 fan
i was extremely salty when he booted PLD and aui; so it was less giving up and more just angry
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tbh the second they attempted the rosh at ti4 was when i was pretty much broken as a c9 fan
it was so dumb
they knew bout the sound problems
their draft was fine without a rosh
cant get over it
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Hope they start on time, I wanna get to bed
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Way to have an hour to start on time and still not start on time MDL
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WHERES HTE GAME WHAT THE FUCK
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4665 Posts
can anyone help me? when i run livestreamer through cmd it initially says found plugin for azubu.tv and then closes right after that..any solution to this problem?
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On January 29 2016 14:41 Kamisamanachi wrote:
can anyone help me? when i run livestreamer through cmd it initially says found plugin for azubu.tv and then closes right after that..any solution to this problem?
are you sure you have it typed like this and you're specifying quality?
livestreamer azubu.tv/MARSTVMDLEN best
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The west strikes back .....in (?)
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I'm watching the huomao stream, all I see is three casters talking about pointless shit, while it appears players are already in their booths. What the fuck?
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4665 Posts
yes..i created a folder in appdata /livestreamer ..it didnt have it initially and then posted that file in there too..idk why it just says plugin found and then randomly closes.
oh,the url was wrong ..i was entering quality instead of best/worst.. damn it
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you need to specificy quality
720p or source or w/e
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4665 Posts
On January 29 2016 14:42 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 14:41 Kamisamanachi wrote:
can anyone help me? when i run livestreamer through cmd it initially says found plugin for azubu.tv and then closes right after that..any solution to this problem? are you sure you have it typed like this and you're specifying quality? livestreamer azubu.tv/MARSTVMDLEN best
thanks for the help..when i entered 720p it didnt work,but it worked for best ..
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720p should work so it's weird that it doesn't but at least you got it working
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im not a beleaver in the weaver
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Four man rotation but no Razor kill ouch.
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4665 Posts
puppey pls..
razor literally unkillable.. oracle heal doing work for newbee
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On January 29 2016 14:54 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
im not a beleaver in the weaver
Me either. Seems like he needs a linken's and maybe BKB in this game.
edit: i guess oracle helps though
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great turnaround for secret
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man i missed some big opportunity there
im not a belEEver in the wEEver
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is atos on venge worth considering this game? A bit pricey but it could pay off late game.
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how's Gyro's win rate ?
I don't really like Gyro in this patch
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wow amazing fight by secret
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Really good Rosh fight even with NB getting aegis/Rosh
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Beautiful kill on Spirit Breaker by w33.
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On January 29 2016 15:13 Vertical wrote:
how's Gyro's win rate ?
I don't really like Gyro in this patch
51%, about the same as always.
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stack those atos w33 u know it in ur heart to be true
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4665 Posts
uhh secret..these decisions
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Easy team fight with useless heroes on Newbee
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pie sacrificed for the teamwipe.
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yea im gonna say w33 hitting 3 ppl with ult is the only reason secret win that teamfight
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4665 Posts
IDK,why this OD isnt gettting BKB? seems like best choice against newbee's early game aggression
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Man i feel like the current Secret can only play with w33 mid carry unless it's ES, just like c9 1.0 with singsing except on mirana
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On January 29 2016 15:20 Kamisamanachi wrote:
IDK,why this OD isnt gettting BKB? seems like best choice against newbee's early game aggression
1. he is getting bkb
2. he should get be getting another atos instead
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On January 29 2016 15:21 babysimba wrote:
Man i feel like the current Secret can only play with w33 mid carry unless it's ES, just like c9 1.0 with singsing except on mirana
singsing could brew too and spacemaker tiny and kunk...
they're all carryish but also playmakers
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4665 Posts
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lets be real rtz dies there too
probably notail too
its just carry life
BUT WOULD BURNING OR SYLAR??
icefrog nerfs the west except alliance 2016
hao would probably die there too tho
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man OD hasn't been this boring since the mek build a couple of years back
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4665 Posts
chuan just pew pewing everywhere
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United States13143 Posts
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Puppey arrow just 0.5 second away from a TP cancel.
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envy feeding rosh away again lol
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Local man ruins everything
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Secret falling apart slowly.
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Quick what else can they give away.
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Which one the better draft late game wise?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On January 29 2016 15:36 Daralii wrote:
Local man ruins everything
scientists called in
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EE's draft is actually so awful. No lane push heroes
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4665 Posts
scientists = baffled ..me too,even tho i am not scientist..secret's teamfight /gameplan really feels atrocious
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On January 29 2016 15:06 Azarkon wrote:
Easy game for Secret
The problem with calling Secret games early is this happens.
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On January 29 2016 15:39 PhoenixVoid wrote:The problem with calling Secret games early is this happens.
If he doesn't call things early he can't pretend he knows things.
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Secret's draft here is something real special.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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Easy game for Secret, but they manage to lose it, time to quit Doto
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On January 29 2016 15:40 Azarkon wrote:
Easy game for Secret, but they manage to lose it, time to quit Doto
but...but..newbee trash and useless heroes
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4665 Posts
people will blame draft,but the fact is that was legit draft and they were winning early adn then started feeding random kills around the map without any game plan
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On January 29 2016 15:41 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:40 Azarkon wrote:
Easy game for Secret, but they manage to lose it, time to quit Doto but...but..newbee trash and useless heroes
China has no tier 2. EU crush East.
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On January 29 2016 15:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:39 PhoenixVoid wrote:On January 29 2016 15:06 Azarkon wrote:
Easy game for Secret The problem with calling Secret games early is this happens. If he doesn't call things early he can't pretend he knows things.
Wind blows, rain falls, EE's teams choke.
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they had no gmep lan because weaver is a shit carry when they couldve had like a fucking ember or morphling
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On January 29 2016 15:37 babysimba wrote:
EE's draft is actually so awful. No lane push heroes
weaver can split push extremely well, EE has just been playing senselessly
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I'm sure EternalEnvy doing the picks has to do with Secret suddenly playing this shit. What is going on with Puppey.
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Shit lane pushing heroes. Of course they are going to get caught and initiated on around the map
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
I thought the whole point for EE joining this team was that he'd never have to draft again.
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4665 Posts
those who call draft senseless havent watched how secret themselves put their draft in gutter with those midgame plays lmao
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secret's play,plan,and coordination are noticeably worse than their showing in starladder
truly disappointing
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On January 29 2016 15:43 Azarkon wrote:
I'm sure EternalEnvy doing the picks has to do with Secret suddenly playing this shit. What is going on with Puppey.
Considering this happened to the last 3 Secret iterations, I'd call this a trend.
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On January 29 2016 15:42 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:37 babysimba wrote:
EE's draft is actually so awful. No lane push heroes weaver can split push extremely well, EE has just been playing senselessly
split pushing against venge and bat requires some maphacking sense.
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On January 29 2016 15:43 Azarkon wrote:
I'm sure EternalEnvy doing the picks has to do with Secret suddenly playing this shit. What is going on with Puppey.
tier 2 tournament, just playing around with china. #hidingstrats
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On January 29 2016 15:45 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:43 Azarkon wrote:
I'm sure EternalEnvy doing the picks has to do with Secret suddenly playing this shit. What is going on with Puppey. tier 2 tournament, just playing around with china. #hidingstrats
They've been hiding strats since the last major then LOL
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ouch... that weaver just disappeared
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What are they even doing lelz, did they get paid for this
User was warned for this post
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Is this Secret or C9? Seems hard to tell these days lmao.
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On January 29 2016 15:44 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:43 Azarkon wrote:
I'm sure EternalEnvy doing the picks has to do with Secret suddenly playing this shit. What is going on with Puppey. Considering this happened to the last 3 Secret iterations, I'd call this a trend.
At least they had a resurgence once S4 took over. With this iteration, they went from a decline to a straight line down.
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They are in transition phase. They are players who aim to get first in major or just go bust. I'm sure they will place high if they play their 6.85 style but they won't win majors.
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4665 Posts
LMAO....EE what the hell ..tilt
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On January 29 2016 15:44 CxWiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:42 dutchfriese wrote:On January 29 2016 15:37 babysimba wrote:
EE's draft is actually so awful. No lane push heroes weaver can split push extremely well, EE has just been playing senselessly split pushing against venge and bat requires some maphacking sense.
Nah. He was farming recklessly both times he died top lane just last hitting creeps in plain sight. All he needs to do is throw out the swarm, shukuchi once and gtfo.
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On January 29 2016 15:42 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:37 babysimba wrote:
EE's draft is actually so awful. No lane push heroes weaver can split push extremely well, EE has just been playing senselessly
morph and ember still do it better though
one button and you're gone far away
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w33ha rage quit feels bad
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Why are people whining about Secret's draft? Secret's draft is actually better, the problem is Secret gave away several important kills leading to 2 free Roshans and a lot of free farm time for NB. Without that, Weaver would be impossible to kill by now.
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On January 29 2016 15:44 Kamisamanachi wrote:
those who call draft senseless havent watched how secret themselves put their draft in gutter with those midgame plays lmao
Even considering the careless mistakes, when you have a Razer that fell behind as hard as Mu did and he's still more relevant than anyone in Secret, you have a drafting error. Every hero in Newbee has some use while I'm looking at this Mirana shooting scouting arrows throughout the entire game
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On January 29 2016 15:48 Salazarz wrote:
Why are people whining about Secret's draft? Secret's draft is actually better, the problem is Secret gave away several important kills leading to 2 free Roshans and a lot of free farm time for NB. Without that, Weaver would be impossible to kill by now.
Picking support PotM feels like it's usually a death sentence. I get the idea was to use arrow to instantly kill Enchantress's creeps, but the hero doesn't fucking do anything.
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what a fucking mess, first time in any secret iteration they feel this underwhelming/undisciplined
On January 29 2016 15:48 ch33psh33p wrote:
w33ha rage quit feels bad
? he's not rage quitting
said gg properly and quit only after the throne exploded
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Well that was painful to watch
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Yeah, draft was not an issue at all. Series of feeds, EE standing in front of Tier 3's too much, and too many feeds.
Except the Mirana, because she did absolutely nothing.
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On January 29 2016 15:48 Salazarz wrote:
Why are people whining about Secret's draft? Secret's draft is actually better, the problem is Secret gave away several important kills leading to 2 free Roshans and a lot of free farm time for NB. Without that, Weaver would be impossible to kill by now.
some drafts are easier to execute than others and weaver is almost alwyas more diffcult to execute than ember and morph...
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Germany3128 Posts
Secret played so sloppy there. They were in a commanding position... then EE, W33, Puppey all got caught one at a time into free rosh.
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That was such bad play by Secret, wow.
Puppey got like 1 arrow all game, and Envy and Misery played so poorly, sigh.
Puppey please draft, and stop with this play. Hate being a fan in games where I wouldn't make certain mistakes that you guys did.
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SB and mirana. 2 single target stunners. Shit in teamfight. Good in small scale fights around the map.
Pick draft that has no fucking creep clear to split push safely.
How the fuck is this draft good. Zero synergy at all.
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On January 29 2016 15:50 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:48 Salazarz wrote:
Why are people whining about Secret's draft? Secret's draft is actually better, the problem is Secret gave away several important kills leading to 2 free Roshans and a lot of free farm time for NB. Without that, Weaver would be impossible to kill by now. Picking support PotM feels like it's usually a death sentence. I get the idea was to use arrow to instantly kill Enchantress's creeps, but the hero doesn't fucking do anything.
With astral at 4 seconds every level it's also basically the old SD combo. They got a couple of kills at the start with that and had a nice lead. Then went clown 9 mode.
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good drafts involve a good mix of scaling aoe dps and single target dps
secret's teamfight didnt scale well at all
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And this observer is not good either. Not once did they show the gold/experience graphs, and in the first 15 minutes of the game, he had the current gold tab open?
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On January 29 2016 15:52 FiWiFaKi wrote:
And this observer is not good either. Not once did they show the gold/experience graphs, and in the first 15 minutes of the game, he had the current gold tab open?
I think it's Rob, one of the BTS production guys. Can they just get a dedicated observer already?
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And honestly even Envy fans can't defend how atrocious his mistakes were this game.
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mm, if you're trying to utilise the Astral into arrow combo, OD needs to get force staff earlier rather than go atos into blink.
Think the itemization lost them a lot of their early game potential. Still think Newbee had the better drafting game plan with Enchantress, VS and Bat.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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On January 29 2016 15:51 babysimba wrote:
SB and mirana. 2 single target stunners. Shit in teamfight. Good in small scale fights around the map.
Pick draft that has no fucking creep clear to split push safely.
How the fuck is this draft good. Zero synergy at all.
Newbee has no way to engage on Secret unless they are miles ahead. It's easy to talk about how shit Secret draft is after they fall 20k gold behind. Newbee played extremely well, but they did not win because of drafting. Fng is saying the same on Russian stream.
I mean, until the second free Roshan Newbee couldn't fight Secret at all, and with Weaver being ahead of Gyro in networth (which he would have been without dying for free over and over), it'd stay that way.
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On January 29 2016 15:53 Kuroeeah wrote:
And honestly even Envy fans can't defend how atrocious his mistakes were this game.
He has fans?
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Feels that Puppey isn't even trying. Wonder whether there is conflict within the team. There must be.
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On January 29 2016 15:54 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:53 Kuroeeah wrote:
And honestly even Envy fans can't defend how atrocious his mistakes were this game. He has fans?
I like Envy
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On January 29 2016 15:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:42 dutchfriese wrote:On January 29 2016 15:37 babysimba wrote:
EE's draft is actually so awful. No lane push heroes weaver can split push extremely well, EE has just been playing senselessly morph and ember still do it better though one button and you're gone far away
I agree, both would have been better picks. Like I said earlier I didn't really like the Weaver pick. I like the Morph idea though, that could have worked well.
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On January 29 2016 15:54 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:53 Kuroeeah wrote:
And honestly even Envy fans can't defend how atrocious his mistakes were this game. He has fans?
come on
every Chinese player love him.
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I only saw the last 5 minutes or so, anyone care to give a small summary? From what I read here it seems game was going alright for Secret and Newbee found EE twice and took 2 free roshes?
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On January 29 2016 15:54 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:53 Kuroeeah wrote:
And honestly even Envy fans can't defend how atrocious his mistakes were this game. He has fans?
I don't feel Secret would have had half the draw it has if it weren't for EE.
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envy and rtz have this thing where theyg et fixated on hipster carries that arent partciularly good for the game like luna weaver etc
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On January 29 2016 15:57 PhoenixVoid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:54 Daralii wrote:On January 29 2016 15:53 Kuroeeah wrote:
And honestly even Envy fans can't defend how atrocious his mistakes were this game. He has fans? I don't feel Secret would have had half the draw it has if it weren't for EE.
I think they'd have more if anything. My anecdotal experience is that a lot of people who love Puppey hate EE.
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On January 29 2016 15:53 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:51 babysimba wrote:
SB and mirana. 2 single target stunners. Shit in teamfight. Good in small scale fights around the map.
Pick draft that has no fucking creep clear to split push safely.
How the fuck is this draft good. Zero synergy at all. Newbee has no way to engage on Secret unless they are miles ahead. It's easy to talk about how shit Secret draft is after they fall 20k gold behind. Newbee played extremely well, but they did not win because of drafting. Fng is saying the same on Russian stream. I mean, until the second free Roshan Newbee couldn't fight Secret at all, and with Weaver being ahead of Gyro in networth (which he would have been without dying for free over and over), it'd stay that way.
And don't you think the reliability of being ahead needs to be part of the gameplan. There's a reason why nobody use mirana support anymore. She loses games even after getting 10 kills early game. And EE tries to make things worse by picking weaver, another carry that requires more farm than required to keep up with its fighting capabilities.
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EE games have draw because there's going to be circus clowns and roller coaster rides
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On January 29 2016 15:55 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 29 2016 15:42 dutchfriese wrote:On January 29 2016 15:37 babysimba wrote:
EE's draft is actually so awful. No lane push heroes weaver can split push extremely well, EE has just been playing senselessly morph and ember still do it better though one button and you're gone far away I agree, both would have been better picks. Like I said earlier I didn't really like the Weaver pick. I like the Morph idea though, that could have worked well.
secret banned morph, and envy's thinking was probably along the line of "hey they have bat while not pick a weaver he's a good linken carries!!"
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western teams should suck it up and learn morph if their best alternatives involve stooping to weaver
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Envy was a beast on Morph in C9 days.
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The worst shit is he practices morph and is still one of the best morph carries lmao
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I think EE has fans rooting for him as much as anti-fans rooting against him.
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Ofc EE has many fans. One hater doesnt mean he has no fan.
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On January 29 2016 16:01 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
western teams should suck it up and learn morph if their best alternatives involve stooping to weaver
Did they play it back during TI2? I can't remember if they picked him or if they just relied on AM to counter him.
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es-ld-spec again?
I really don't like this strat
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On January 29 2016 16:00 uthgard wrote:
"hey they have bat while not pick a weaver he's a good linken carries!!"
EE's internal monologue has trouble with English sometimes.
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On January 29 2016 15:57 spudde123 wrote:
I only saw the last 5 minutes or so, anyone care to give a small summary? From what I read here it seems game was going alright for Secret and Newbee found EE twice and took 2 free roshes?
Secret pushed bottom tier 2. Swap -> Lasso -> Free OD kill.
EE pushing Tier 3. Decides to run uphill to take a couple meaningless potshots before running back to TP. Newbee flank him, pop linkens, chain two stuns and kill him.
Newbee get a free Rosh.
Then Puppey feeds a free kill in the river and gives up Gem.
You could probably call that the turning point, and a lot of bad plays from Secret meant they never got any advantage back.
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On January 29 2016 15:58 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:57 PhoenixVoid wrote:On January 29 2016 15:54 Daralii wrote:On January 29 2016 15:53 Kuroeeah wrote:
And honestly even Envy fans can't defend how atrocious his mistakes were this game. He has fans? I don't feel Secret would have had half the draw it has if it weren't for EE. I think they'd have more if anything. My anecdotal experience is that a lot of people who love Puppey hate EE.
I think envy haters goes way too overboard on critiquing him. He's proven himself to carry games that not a lot of players playing his position can achieve and a lot of people just flames him for every death, even if he legitimately was being sacked.
I don't care much for the things he says or his personality, but I do love the fact that his distinctive playstyle baffles scientists.
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On January 29 2016 16:05 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:01 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
western teams should suck it up and learn morph if their best alternatives involve stooping to weaver Did they play it back during TI2? I can't remember if they picked him or if they just relied on AM to counter him.
EE himself used to play Morph relatively frequently some months around TI4
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On January 29 2016 16:06 ASoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:00 uthgard wrote:
"hey they have bat while not pick a weaver he's a good linken carries!!" EE's internal monologue has trouble with English sometimes.
wouldn't surprise me
but smh fam, obviously meant 'why'
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Apparently Secret didn't practice at all for this tournament. nrootn said as much in 1437 chat.
Na`Vi 2.0.
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On January 29 2016 16:08 molecu wrote:
Apparently Secret didn't practice at all for this tournament. nrootn said as much in 1437 chat.
Na`Vi 2.0.
I mean they can't practice when they were just at SL and then EE flew to China straight from there etc. I doubt EG played between SL and this either really. But idk how Secret's preparation for SL was
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On January 29 2016 16:08 molecu wrote:
Apparently Secret didn't practice at all for this tournament. nrootn said as much in 1437 chat.
Na`Vi 2.0.
Didnt they say the same about WCA? So when will they start practicing lol. There were time C9 struggled but this Secret seems worse to me.
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On January 29 2016 15:59 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:53 Salazarz wrote:On January 29 2016 15:51 babysimba wrote:
SB and mirana. 2 single target stunners. Shit in teamfight. Good in small scale fights around the map.
Pick draft that has no fucking creep clear to split push safely.
How the fuck is this draft good. Zero synergy at all. Newbee has no way to engage on Secret unless they are miles ahead. It's easy to talk about how shit Secret draft is after they fall 20k gold behind. Newbee played extremely well, but they did not win because of drafting. Fng is saying the same on Russian stream. I mean, until the second free Roshan Newbee couldn't fight Secret at all, and with Weaver being ahead of Gyro in networth (which he would have been without dying for free over and over), it'd stay that way. And don't you think the reliability of being ahead needs to be part of the gameplan. There's a reason why nobody use mirana support anymore. She loses games even after getting 10 kills early game. And EE tries to make things worse by picking weaver, another carry that requires more farm than required to keep up with its fighting capabilities.
Mirana support was questionable, I agree, but ultimately not the reason they lost the game. Had the drafts been reversed, I'm 100% sure Secret would have lost the game too simply because Newbee executed better. Weaver was not a bad pick because, when played right, he can farm / push without having to fear the bat too much while rest of the team can stick as 4 and be safe from bat ganks as well. Unfortunately neither Envy nor the other 4 executed correctly and allowed free bat picks on important heroes at important points in the game.
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No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure.
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On January 29 2016 16:11 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 15:59 babysimba wrote:On January 29 2016 15:53 Salazarz wrote:On January 29 2016 15:51 babysimba wrote:
SB and mirana. 2 single target stunners. Shit in teamfight. Good in small scale fights around the map.
Pick draft that has no fucking creep clear to split push safely.
How the fuck is this draft good. Zero synergy at all. Newbee has no way to engage on Secret unless they are miles ahead. It's easy to talk about how shit Secret draft is after they fall 20k gold behind. Newbee played extremely well, but they did not win because of drafting. Fng is saying the same on Russian stream. I mean, until the second free Roshan Newbee couldn't fight Secret at all, and with Weaver being ahead of Gyro in networth (which he would have been without dying for free over and over), it'd stay that way. And don't you think the reliability of being ahead needs to be part of the gameplan. There's a reason why nobody use mirana support anymore. She loses games even after getting 10 kills early game. And EE tries to make things worse by picking weaver, another carry that requires more farm than required to keep up with its fighting capabilities. Mirana support was questionable, I agree, but ultimately not the reason they lost the game. Had the drafts been reversed, I'm 100% sure Secret would have lost the game too simply because Newbee executed better. Weaver was not a bad pick because, when played right, he can farm / push without having to fear the bat too much while rest of the team can stick as 4 and be safe from bat ganks as well. Unfortunately neither Envy nor the other 4 executed correctly and allowed free bat picks on important heroes at important points in the game.
Linkens is useless against bat once he has forcestaff. He can break it so easily
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On January 29 2016 16:13 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:11 Salazarz wrote:On January 29 2016 15:59 babysimba wrote:On January 29 2016 15:53 Salazarz wrote:On January 29 2016 15:51 babysimba wrote:
SB and mirana. 2 single target stunners. Shit in teamfight. Good in small scale fights around the map.
Pick draft that has no fucking creep clear to split push safely.
How the fuck is this draft good. Zero synergy at all. Newbee has no way to engage on Secret unless they are miles ahead. It's easy to talk about how shit Secret draft is after they fall 20k gold behind. Newbee played extremely well, but they did not win because of drafting. Fng is saying the same on Russian stream. I mean, until the second free Roshan Newbee couldn't fight Secret at all, and with Weaver being ahead of Gyro in networth (which he would have been without dying for free over and over), it'd stay that way. And don't you think the reliability of being ahead needs to be part of the gameplan. There's a reason why nobody use mirana support anymore. She loses games even after getting 10 kills early game. And EE tries to make things worse by picking weaver, another carry that requires more farm than required to keep up with its fighting capabilities. Mirana support was questionable, I agree, but ultimately not the reason they lost the game. Had the drafts been reversed, I'm 100% sure Secret would have lost the game too simply because Newbee executed better. Weaver was not a bad pick because, when played right, he can farm / push without having to fear the bat too much while rest of the team can stick as 4 and be safe from bat ganks as well. Unfortunately neither Envy nor the other 4 executed correctly and allowed free bat picks on important heroes at important points in the game. Linkens is useless against bat once he has forcestaff. He can break it so easily
Yes, that's why Weaver is so good against him. He doesn't have to stay in lanes ricing forever, he moves around quickly enough to stay out of reach etc. Just because Envy wanted to sit in lanes for literally 60 seconds at a time doesn't mean the hero is necessarily bad...
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On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure.
You must be the players union's president to know this inside info.
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On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure.
OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean.
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I don't know, I predicted Secret would fall off in a pretty dramatic fashion but I didn't really have a good grasp on why I felt that way.
Still time will tell, Secret could still rebound and be TI winners for all I know.
It's only a hunch and some very vague offhanded information but certain player(s) in Secret are very good at demotivating their peers.
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On January 29 2016 16:17 Kuroeeah wrote:
Still time will tell, Secret could still rebound and be TI winners for all I know.
Implying they won't kick 2+ players after Shanghai.
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On January 29 2016 16:17 Danzo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure. OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean.
Not according to Reddit.
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4665 Posts
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4665 Posts
isnt this bo3? where is 2nd game? nvm..trackdota tricked me
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nb's draft is way too snowball dependent
secret literally just needs to not feed
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On January 29 2016 16:17 Danzo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure. OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean. OG came off a 1½ months break, after being on the road for months with few breaks, including a bootcamp. They were also visibly rusty in their first games. At least as a team. I am sure they have played dota.
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On January 29 2016 16:17 Danzo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure. OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean.
Easy, what he means is Western teams losing can only mean they didn't prepare at all, otherwise they would crush chinese teams without breaking a sweat. It is Azarkon, it is china, if you stick around long enough you will understand their relationship.
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Secret is literally done if Icefrog releases a 6.86e patch that nerfs ES after this tournament
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that remnant location was LOL
personally ive found bb is gr8 against ember actually
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Remember when EternalEnvy was a god on that hero?
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jacky lmao pls
piediedie pls
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On January 29 2016 16:25 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:17 Danzo wrote:On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure. OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean. Easy, what he means is Western teams losing can only mean they didn't prepare at all, otherwise they would crush chinese teams without breaking a sweat. It is Azarkon, it is china, if you stick around long enough you will understand their relationship. It is no secret that Western teams(at least European) play more tournaments, leaving less time for practice, whereas Eastern teams practice more. It is no excuse. If you participate, you should come prepared.
Chinese fans have used this "they didn't practice" for years, though, and Azarkon is also aware of this. Chinese teams have lacked tournaments in the past, but it seems better.
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On January 29 2016 16:25 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:17 Danzo wrote:On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure. OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean. Easy, what he means is Western teams losing can only mean they didn't prepare at all, otherwise they would crush chinese teams without breaking a sweat. It is Azarkon, it is china, if you stick around long enough you will understand their relationship.
Azarkon and china have a love hate relationship.
Its like when your wife loves coke
and you love pepsi.
But deep down you love each other, yet you hate each other at the same time.
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It takes true talent to lose a teamfight after getting an ice blast on 3 heroes.
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Germany3128 Posts
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if w33 had gotten that magnetize off, that would have been pretty disastrous for newbee
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On January 29 2016 16:28 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:25 Racket wrote:On January 29 2016 16:17 Danzo wrote:On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure. OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean. Easy, what he means is Western teams losing can only mean they didn't prepare at all, otherwise they would crush chinese teams without breaking a sweat. It is Azarkon, it is china, if you stick around long enough you will understand their relationship. It is no secret that Western teams(at least European) play more tournaments, leaving less time for practice, whereas Eastern teams practice more. It is no excuse. If you participate, you should come prepared. Chinese fans have used this "they didn't practice" for years, though, and Azarkon is also aware of this. Chinese teams have lacked tournaments in the past, but it seems better.
The Western teams also just came back from holidays, while Chinese teams are going into holidays. It's a different schedule. I'm sure Western teams are going to be prepared for the next tournament.
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That was some impressive ES control there.
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On January 29 2016 16:29 shad2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:25 Racket wrote:On January 29 2016 16:17 Danzo wrote:On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure. OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean. Easy, what he means is Western teams losing can only mean they didn't prepare at all, otherwise they would crush chinese teams without breaking a sweat. It is Azarkon, it is china, if you stick around long enough you will understand their relationship. Azarkon and china have a love hate relationship. Its like when your wife loves coke and you love pepsi. But deep down you love each other, yet you hate each other at the same time.
I like this
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I fucking hope envy's bot was on cooldown because else that was hilarious decision making
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W33 gets super strength from his vampire nature, but even then I'm not sure his back is strong enough to carry this.
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On January 29 2016 16:30 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:28 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 16:25 Racket wrote:On January 29 2016 16:17 Danzo wrote:On January 29 2016 16:12 Azarkon wrote:
No Western team practiced very hard for this tournament, but they're going to for the next tournament, I'm sure. OG looked like they practice well for this, I'm not sure what you mean. Easy, what he means is Western teams losing can only mean they didn't prepare at all, otherwise they would crush chinese teams without breaking a sweat. It is Azarkon, it is china, if you stick around long enough you will understand their relationship. It is no secret that Western teams(at least European) play more tournaments, leaving less time for practice, whereas Eastern teams practice more. It is no excuse. If you participate, you should come prepared. Chinese fans have used this "they didn't practice" for years, though, and Azarkon is also aware of this. Chinese teams have lacked tournaments in the past, but it seems better. The Western teams also just came back from holidays, while Chinese teams are going into holidays. It's a different schedule. I'm sure Western teams are going to be prepared for the next tournament. If the Chinese dominate this tournament, they are currently best. Of course there can be natural causes, but it is what it is. It doesn't remove from your general opinion, that Western teams have been in the controlling seat for quite a while, because that is true.
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EE is getting rekt, he tilt yet?
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the hell is wrong with EE
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Envy isn't going to carry this game, it's on Misery and w33 here.
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On January 29 2016 16:35 malcram wrote:
EE is getting rekt, he tilt yet?
he's been on a tilt for some time now, other possible explanation is he's doing a 322 bet but we know that's not possible
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On January 29 2016 16:35 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Envy isn't going to carry this game, it's on Misery and w33 here.
nah thats not true, if it goes late having a slightly underfarmed ember is still rly nice
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they just played starladder week ago and some ignorant brat saying they came from vacation? lmao...can these excuses get more interesting?
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Well have to give credit here. Outdraft by Secret this time. Way too hard for Newbee to break high ground with all these bursts
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ebola spirit just too good in the right hands
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w33 ES is respect ban worthy.
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Where was the rest of Secret the whole time w33 was 1v5ing there?
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On January 29 2016 16:40 babysimba wrote:
Well have to give credit here. Outdraft by Secret this time. Way too hard for Newbee to break high ground with all these bursts
yea man i said it all secret do is have to not massively feed
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On January 29 2016 16:40 babysimba wrote:
Well have to give credit here. Outdraft by Secret this time. Way too hard for Newbee to break high ground with all these bursts
Newbee did it to themselves. Furion carry? When did that work out for Chinese teams.
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envy has been arriving pretty late these last fights, prolly need to maintain the bot cooldown better
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eh, this game just smacks of too ez for earth spirit
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On January 29 2016 16:43 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:40 babysimba wrote:
Well have to give credit here. Outdraft by Secret this time. Way too hard for Newbee to break high ground with all these bursts Newbee did it to themselves. Furion carry? When did that work out for Chinese teams.
TI4..for VG ,many times...were u not there that time?
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He doesn't remember anything good about chinese teams
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On January 29 2016 16:45 Kamisamanachi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:43 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 16:40 babysimba wrote:
Well have to give credit here. Outdraft by Secret this time. Way too hard for Newbee to break high ground with all these bursts Newbee did it to themselves. Furion carry? When did that work out for Chinese teams. TI4..for VG ,many times...were u not there that time?
That was not Furion carry.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 29 2016 16:45 Kamisamanachi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:43 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 16:40 babysimba wrote:
Well have to give credit here. Outdraft by Secret this time. Way too hard for Newbee to break high ground with all these bursts Newbee did it to themselves. Furion carry? When did that work out for Chinese teams. TI4..for VG ,many times...were u not there that time?
Most of the time it was Rotk Furion, and the games where Sylar played Furion had...mixed results. A lot of the time when they played Sylar on Furion they either won before he mattered, or lost because he didn't do anything.
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Well this isn't really furion carry either. Bristleback is the carry.
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On January 29 2016 16:51 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:45 Kamisamanachi wrote:On January 29 2016 16:43 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 16:40 babysimba wrote:
Well have to give credit here. Outdraft by Secret this time. Way too hard for Newbee to break high ground with all these bursts Newbee did it to themselves. Furion carry? When did that work out for Chinese teams. TI4..for VG ,many times...were u not there that time? Most of the time it was Rotk Furion, and the games where Sylar played Furion had...mixed results. A lot of the time when they played Sylar on Furion they either won before he mattered, or lost because he didn't do anything.
sylar played one of the best offensive furion at TI4 times..he would always used to get his items on time and it included 9 minutes orchid which was fastest...i dont think it was a failure most of the time.if anything that was a part of their sucessful strategy
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I would assume the furion carry pick was to hit a orchid timing against ember and get raxes before bear radiance.
But Earth Spirit Dota..
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United States47024 Posts
On January 29 2016 16:54 babysimba wrote:
I would assume the furion carry pick was to hit a orchid timing against ember and get raxes before bear radiance.
But Earth Spirit Dota..
Even ignoring Earth Spirit, expecting the timing gap between Furion Orchid and Bear Radiance to be long enough to rax a lane is...ambitious.
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oh look envy's on a hero where if you feed random stupid deaths you cans till come back and carry
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On January 29 2016 16:20 Kamisamanachi wrote:
isnt this bo3? where is 2nd game? nvm..trackdota tricked me
I'm missing trackdota too
More ticker here pls! Damn work!
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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does this observer not know what a minimap is
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welp newbee has missed their timing.
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On January 29 2016 17:05 Geisterkarle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:20 Kamisamanachi wrote:
isnt this bo3? where is 2nd game? nvm..trackdota tricked me I'm missing trackdota too More ticker here pls! Damn work!
newbee got some early kills with bristle sb ds np vs but now they're behind some ember sylla carries with aa earhtspirit wd bckup
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On January 29 2016 17:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:54 babysimba wrote:
I would assume the furion carry pick was to hit a orchid timing against ember and get raxes before bear radiance.
But Earth Spirit Dota.. Even ignoring Earth Spirit, expecting the timing gap between Furion Orchid and Bear Radiance to be long enough to rax a lane is...ambitious.
Carry furion vs offlane bear. Probably a good 8 min window at least. Still a dumb gameplan with SB support. No idea what that draft is supposed to do.
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On January 29 2016 17:05 Geisterkarle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 16:20 Kamisamanachi wrote:
isnt this bo3? where is 2nd game? nvm..trackdota tricked me I'm missing trackdota too More ticker here pls! Damn work!
Yes please! trackdota keeps getting out of date for unknown reason.
I'm currently refreshing it til baby-stealing dingo emerges and hope for the best
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On January 29 2016 17:07 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 17:00 TheYango wrote:On January 29 2016 16:54 babysimba wrote:
I would assume the furion carry pick was to hit a orchid timing against ember and get raxes before bear radiance.
But Earth Spirit Dota.. Even ignoring Earth Spirit, expecting the timing gap between Furion Orchid and Bear Radiance to be long enough to rax a lane is...ambitious. Carry furion vs offlane bear. Probably a good 8 min window at least. Still a dumb gameplan with SB support. No idea what that draft is supposed to do.
you say that as if a decent bear isn't supposed to get near-equal farm out of that lane..
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Same with thescore. Both teams got 0gold and 0/0/0 stats but nb has 3 roshs... i call shenanigans!
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give w33ha a fucking medal kept secret in the game until envy and misery got farmed.
pie with the lowkey clutch death wards too. great positioning.
unfortunately the game is overall kinda weak i don't see secret making it through even if they win this series. hope ill wake up to a 2-1 for secret anyway tho.
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On January 29 2016 17:08 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 17:07 babysimba wrote:On January 29 2016 17:00 TheYango wrote:On January 29 2016 16:54 babysimba wrote:
I would assume the furion carry pick was to hit a orchid timing against ember and get raxes before bear radiance.
But Earth Spirit Dota.. Even ignoring Earth Spirit, expecting the timing gap between Furion Orchid and Bear Radiance to be long enough to rax a lane is...ambitious. Carry furion vs offlane bear. Probably a good 8 min window at least. Still a dumb gameplan with SB support. No idea what that draft is supposed to do. you say that as if a decent bear isn't supposed to get near-equal farm out of that lane..
No they don't. NB should be pushing down top before 6min and make the big camp near ancients unfarmable.
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Haha, Earth Spirit what a hero
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20-3 winrate at this LAN and going strong..icefrog pls
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Some of EE's early deaths were pretty funny. Mid fight it turned out okay for Secret in the end as far as I recall but it looked rather worrisome originally, I think EE forgot he had placed a spirit earlier in the bush and thought he is remnanting next to his base. But then the remnant came back almost next to Newbee next to the lane. But they turned that fight around decently with ES
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GG, secret won, earth spirit picked
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Ok why no ES ban newbee???
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And Puppey's back to drafting lmao
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On January 29 2016 17:27 Furikawari wrote:
Ok why no ES ban newbee???
hard headed bunch
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3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: bets on
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: ee's
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: retarded draft
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: i bet itll be
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: tb
yea i called this 6 minutes ago
guess es scales pretty hard hto cuz he's op
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On January 29 2016 17:29 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: bets on
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: ee's
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: retarded draft
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: i bet itll be
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: tb yea i called this 6 minutes ago guess es scales pretty hard hto cuz he's op
But it's Puppey drafting.
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Newbee auto gimping themselves, they dunno the famous VS swap of DP's ult into team :D
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On January 29 2016 17:29 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 17:29 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: bets on
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: ee's
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: retarded draft
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: i bet itll be
3:23 AM - videogamedunkey: tb yea i called this 6 minutes ago guess es scales pretty hard hto cuz he's op But it's Puppey drafting.
and you think ee didnt ask for that tb independently?
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puppey is drafting again,boys
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i mean this 2nd pick tb shits on puppey though yea i dont think he's the 2nd pick here...
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Puppey is too stubborn at drafting. EE sucks at drafting.
The best way is still to throw out every idea and let Puppey refine them
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On January 29 2016 17:31 Furikawari wrote:
Hmm Zeus still a pick?
Newbee like to run support Zeus.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
You are playing a game of Dota 2
You don't ban Earth Spirit because you can counter it.
The enemy team instantly picks Earth Spirit.
You lose against the enemy team.
You don't ban Earth Spirit next time because you are stupid?
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um excuse me meme police we have some posters with staff in their signatures memeing how can i even report
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actually a really good rubick game, the support zeus can potentially be devastating though
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a staff memeing caught off guard..calling merlini 1-8000
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Alrite secret, u CANT lose that, can u?
BTW Where is the one and only newbee fan?
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Misery channeling Bone-Chan :')
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did bone7 just sneak into the booth?
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I know you all are tired of this but, it fits so well here:
Had he just said, "just because you won an international doesn't make it okay to pick Naix."
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its almost like its TI4 guys........................................
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cloud 9?!?!? ti4?
naix and morf resurgence is ti2 tho
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zeus is an awesome TB counter ..this TB will have only 2 skills meta and sunder
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On January 29 2016 17:32 Kipsate wrote:
You are playing a game of Dota 2
You don't ban Earth Spirit because you can counter it.
The enemy team instantly picks Earth Spirit.
You lose against the enemy team.
You don't ban Earth Spirit next time because you are stupid? Maybe the alternatives are worse. And afterall, it is a Earth Spirit, that is more a utility hero than a snowball hero, of which W33 also likes.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Lifestealer against TB usually ends badly for the Lifestealer.
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LC for Secret. The transformation into C9 is complete.
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If Newbee wins they are balsy because they let them have ES and TB.
If Newbee loses they are stupid because they let them have ES and TB.
My bet is they are stupid.
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On January 29 2016 17:37 Racket wrote:
If Newbee wins they are balsy because they let them have ES and TB.
If Newbee loses they are stupid because they let them have ES and TB.
My bet is they are stupid.
Their pick is completely stupid. It doesn't matter whether they win even.
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On January 29 2016 17:37 Racket wrote:
If Newbee wins they are balsy because they let them have ES and TB.
If Newbee loses they are stupid because they let them have ES and TB.
My bet is they are stupid.
Secret picked LC to balance this though. Considering how Misery is playing for monthes, this cant end well.
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On January 29 2016 17:37 Racket wrote:
If Newbee wins they are balsy because they let them have ES and TB.
If Newbee loses they are stupid because they let them have ES and TB.
My bet is they are stupid.
They are smart because they will win with whatever heroes when Secret throws
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hao was the best lifestealer player in the world during lifestealer's peak time..if anyone can make that hero work ,that would be hao.
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On January 29 2016 17:37 Racket wrote:
If Newbee wins they are balsy because they let them have ES and TB.
If Newbee loses they are stupid because they let them have ES and TB.
My bet is they are stupid.
It's Envy TB against Faceless Void. Remember those Summit finals against Vici?
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Was Morph banned? Seems like an easy morph game instead of lifestealer.
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teabun said it perfectly,..this is some c9 shit, honestly
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On January 29 2016 17:41 Kipsate wrote:
Was Morph banned? Seems like an easy morph game instead of lifestealer. Spell immunity makes ES just a rock.
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On January 29 2016 17:41 Kipsate wrote:
Was Morph banned? Seems like an easy morph game instead of lifestealer.
It's actually an excellent phantom lancer game, in case we're talking about heroes no one play.
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On January 29 2016 17:42 Kamisamanachi wrote:
teabun said it perfectly,..this is some c9 shit, honestly
I don't remember C9 running a lot of Rubick. And this is just a monster game potentially for a rubick.
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On January 29 2016 17:46 Furikawari wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 17:42 Kamisamanachi wrote:
teabun said it perfectly,..this is some c9 shit, honestly I don't remember C9 running a lot of Rubick. And this is just a monster game potentially for a rubick.
I think Rubick's one of Pie's signature heroes, not positive.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Get level 6 Naix, get Dragon
Get level 6 Void Chrono
the dream?
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ld stop syaing cringey shit
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ah yes the classic zeus bomb
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Ha, I looked at dotabuff for the second game. There is a column for "dealt damage" to enemy heroes. here are the top three players and the damage they delt:
1. EternalEnvy - 16k
2. w33 - 15.6k
3. Mu - 14.1k
:D
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10 mins left to win the game newbee
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Why do we still have LH recap
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I don't think they can deal with a farmed Envy~
carry us to victory EEsama
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I have a feeling Newbee doesn't know how to play Terroblade.
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How the hell did Void survive there...
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missed the EG vs CoL games... good games?
did RTZ play Furion?
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The TB blink is back boyzzzzzzzz
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On January 29 2016 17:46 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 17:46 Furikawari wrote:On January 29 2016 17:42 Kamisamanachi wrote:
teabun said it perfectly,..this is some c9 shit, honestly I don't remember C9 running a lot of Rubick. And this is just a monster game potentially for a rubick. I think Rubick's one of Pie's signature heroes, not positive.
i also don't remember c9 being a Rubick team. You might be mixing it with pie with secret i remember this secret picking rubick for pie
They are Jakiro spammers though at one point all positions except midlane played jakiro
On January 29 2016 17:42 Kamisamanachi wrote:
teabun said it perfectly,..this is some c9 shit, honestly
they should really just stop using the smurfname secret even a while after their formation they play like c9
and looks like we prolly lost
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what is the shit about diffusal blade with EE?
1.3k hp TB in a 30min game
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On January 29 2016 18:12 CxWiLL wrote:
what is the shit about diffusal blade with EE?
TB needs 5 blades in his disposal
i mean 6 (goddamn i forgot about dagger)
ok actually what the fuck is the dagger pickup for
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ee is just many steps ahead of everyone. he obviously got it in case naix infests a thunderhide and frenzies void.
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On January 29 2016 18:12 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:12 CxWiLL wrote:
what is the shit about diffusal blade with EE? TB needs 5 blades in his disposal i mean 6 (goddamn i forgot about dagger) ok actually what the fuck is the dagger pickup for
actually i am fine with the dagger,
but diffusal? no
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.... this is such a silly game
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what the fuck was that move
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I don't ???? w33, but Misery! This Eartshaker was easy dual-dmg and he didn't go for it...
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Don't know who was worse, W33ha missing half of his spells and diving to the Africa, or Misery remembering that he has BKB on 1/4 HP...
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w33 makes a brilliant shaker stun play
w33 makes a stupid fucking dumbass dive into the enemy team
what a guy
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so is it ok to pick naix if you are not invited to the majors?
we will know in a few minutes.
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c9 is back boys
everybody looks like they are doing their own shit during chaos
puppey pls do something this is why we needed you so that people don't do this kind of shit
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Zeus Support lategame is actually so strong if he gets any farm.
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On January 29 2016 18:17 hfglgg wrote:
so is it ok to pick naix if you are not invited to the majors?
we will know in a few minutes.
its ok if youre a ti winner xd
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The issue is not that W33ha jumped in, it's that no one else did.
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well aside from losing at least it can only get better for secret from here
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people seriously underestimate zeus lategame power against illusion based heroes
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On January 29 2016 18:18 Azarkon wrote:
The issue is not that W33ha jumped in, it's that no one else did.
Yea they should have just bkbed out of that chronosphere
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there is a chrono w33 could have just gone for mobility (blink force) into scepter to save ppl or even kick enemies away.
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another and another and another free rosh for newbee
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losing to lifestealer is what secret has come to... /s
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On January 29 2016 18:18 Azarkon wrote:
The issue is not that W33ha jumped in, it's that no one else did.
hmm not sure cause they could have had that easy kill of ES (and he kept missing shit) he dived into 1 hero without vision of the others i'm not sure about that move
you know you are really not supposed to dive into no vision alone that's not really smart
also 3 of secret got chronod
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outgreeded
ive always felt outgreeding is an answer to naga/tb
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non ancient naix > earth spirit lol
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i was heavily advised to bet on newbee
should have listened.
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get your own naix, today with 18 more damage!
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Just because you are invited tot he major doesn't make it oke to pick LC?
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It is w33's fault. Look at Teebun' stream. He can afford to rewind and analyse fights
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they should disband
losing to 1 position naix is embarrassing
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Team Secret is a top team, huh.
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aaaaaaaaand the dawg man is winner!
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ebola spirit = countered hard.
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How do you allow a team to win with Naix, and a 2014 Naix at that.
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Where to now for Secret? This roster had good performances at one point, but they have been spiraling down.
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secret should probably stop declining invites to events now
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Following w33 would have been fine if LC had the chance to duel void before he jumped in for the chrono, but I think at that point Secret was already thinking that we have to get out because the ES got out and w33 ended up so deep after the missed roll. Also I didn't see exactly how long Secret had vision on the Void. Just a very awkward situation
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despite w33ha mistake i'm sure misery is likely gonna get kicked first
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On January 29 2016 18:24 goody153 wrote:
they should disband
losing to 1 position naix is embarrassing
Is that a new meme or something?
I don't really get these "they have lost to X, they are really bad" comments...
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i mean,u can see newbee smoking under a ward and then misery just takes a free walk near river like lmao
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Im happy for newbee they seem to have struggled for far too long
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Only EE could come up with this TB build. Definitely art.
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Newbee made ES and Disruptor irrelevant.
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On January 29 2016 18:25 goody153 wrote:
despite w33ha mistake i'm sure misery is likely gonna get kicked first
I'm expecting everyone but Puppey will be kicked within hours of them dropping out of Shanghai.
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On January 29 2016 18:25 Azarkon wrote:
How do you allow a team to win with Naix, and a 2014 Naix at that.
naix was a TB counter from his very first release back in 2009.
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On January 29 2016 18:25 goody153 wrote:
despite w33ha mistake i'm sure misery is likely gonna get kicked first
If they want to try more with this lineup it's the obvious path. He is underwhelming in like 90% of the games.
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On January 29 2016 18:26 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:24 goody153 wrote:
they should disband
losing to 1 position naix is embarrassing Is that a new meme or something? I don't really get this "they have lost to X, they are really bad" comments...
Yeah it's a meme but a different meme from that meme
let me explain to you the context. Naix is considered as a bad hero (of course until the change of his ultimate) . It's so bad in most situations that if you lost it you should just quit dota
(of course it's a pun .. naix is obviously working situational pick)
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Newbee is 50/50 with every team according to Sgamers.
they can beat some good team and also lose in a magnificent way to T3 teams.
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On January 29 2016 18:27 CxWiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:25 Azarkon wrote:
How do you allow a team to win with Naix, and a 2014 Naix at that. naix was a TB counter from his very first release back in 2009.
How exactly does he do that again?
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so many teams are back
newbee is back
alliance is back
c9 is back
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Despite all the fun we made of the Lifestealer, Newbee's draft is far superior in teamfight, they have far more control and damage. Earth Spirit didn't snowball out of control and thus was just as effective as p much ES support. The Naix allowed them to fight earlier then normal(which led to like 2-3 Roshans). Secret had to find continious pickoffs with LC because they would lose h2h teamfights. a lategame TB would be able to deal with any of the heroes from Newbee but not all together, esp when the other 4 heroes on Newbee scale way better then any of the respective heroes on the Secret side.
Lifestealer also itimized 100% correctly, the AC/Deso made it so they were able to break high ground quite comfortably, quickly and safely with Rage LS, Aegis and DP ultimate.
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Just kick both :D
They can build around pld, ee, puppey
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On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:26 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:24 goody153 wrote:
they should disband
losing to 1 position naix is embarrassing Is that a new meme or something? I don't really get this "they have lost to X, they are really bad" comments... Yeah it's a meme but a different meme from that meme let me explain to you the context. Naix is considered as a bad hero (of course until the change of his ultimate) . It's so bad in most situations that if you lost it you should just quit dota (of course it's a pun .. naix is obviously working situational pick)
Oh ok, I thought that some of you are actually serious(I mean there probably are some people that really think this).
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4665 Posts
i think misery was playing like they already made descision to kick him after this LAN ..that smoke under wards and still get caught play
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On January 29 2016 18:25 Evander Berry Wall wrote:
Where to now for Secret? This roster had good performances at one point, but they have been spiraling down.
no results after the patch. And EE drafting :-)
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On January 29 2016 18:29 Kamisamanachi wrote:
i think misery was playing like they already made descision to kick him after this LAN ..that smoke under wards and still get caught play
they didnt smoke under a ward
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Secrets supports have been absolutely awful this game, like 0 impact, puppy had a single glimpse/static storm in 43 mins and pld didnt use a single telekinesis. Now lets compare that to the newbee pair...
Seems like secret live and die by w33s performance, of him alone creating enough space for envy to carry after like 40-50 mins. The support pair just feeds and rolls over, they are not a good combo and they need one aggressive support.
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On January 29 2016 18:29 Nyan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:25 Evander Berry Wall wrote:
Where to now for Secret? This roster had good performances at one point, but they have been spiraling down. no results after the patch. And EE drafting :-)
It was Puppey drafting that last game.
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On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:26 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:24 goody153 wrote:
they should disband
losing to 1 position naix is embarrassing Is that a new meme or something? I don't really get this "they have lost to X, they are really bad" comments... Yeah it's a meme but a different meme from that meme let me explain to you the context. Naix is considered as a bad hero (of course until the change of his ultimate) . It's so bad in most situations that if you lost it you should just quit dota (of course it's a pun .. naix is obviously working situational pick) Maybe you should consider what you say, and apply it to correct your first statement.
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On January 29 2016 18:29 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:26 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:24 goody153 wrote:
they should disband
losing to 1 position naix is embarrassing Is that a new meme or something? I don't really get this "they have lost to X, they are really bad" comments... Yeah it's a meme but a different meme from that meme let me explain to you the context. Naix is considered as a bad hero (of course until the change of his ultimate) . It's so bad in most situations that if you lost it you should just quit dota (of course it's a pun .. naix is obviously working situational pick) Oh ok, I thought that some of you are actually serious(I mean there probably are some people that really think this).
Yeah i should really add some "sarcasm" note next time or maybe a smiley lol
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Secret's draft was way harder to execute and leaves smaller margin of error.
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On January 29 2016 18:29 Kamisamanachi wrote:
i think misery was playing like they already made descision to kick him after this LAN ..that smoke under wards and still get caught play
can't kick him yet... secret are playing in the majors.
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On January 29 2016 18:29 Kipsate wrote:
Despite all the fun we made of the Lifestealer, Newbee's draft is far superior in teamfight, they have far more control and damage. Earth Spirit didn't snowball out of control and thus was just as effective as p much ES support. The Naix allowed them to fight earlier then normal(which led to like 2-3 Roshans). Secret had to find continious pickoffs with LC because they would lose h2h teamfights. a lategame TB would be able to deal with any of the heroes from Newbee but not all together, esp when the other 4 heroes on Newbee scale way better then any of the respective heroes on the Secret side.
Lifestealer also itimized 100% correctly, the AC/Deso made it so they were able to break high ground quite comfortably, quickly and safely with Rage LS, Aegis and DP ultimate.
i also think the lifestealer is a very nice choice vs an ES core because you have rage and you dont need to wait for a bkb
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Secret's supports do need to improve. And Puppey needs to play Enchantress again.
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On January 29 2016 18:28 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:27 CxWiLL wrote:On January 29 2016 18:25 Azarkon wrote:
How do you allow a team to win with Naix, and a 2014 Naix at that. naix was a TB counter from his very first release back in 2009. How exactly does he do that again?
dunno
a terrible TB, maybe?
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On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:
so many teams are back
newbee is back
alliance is back
c9 is back
you haven't mention the best one
CHINA IS BACK !!!
so far...
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On January 29 2016 18:32 CxWiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:28 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 18:27 CxWiLL wrote:On January 29 2016 18:25 Azarkon wrote:
How do you allow a team to win with Naix, and a 2014 Naix at that. naix was a TB counter from his very first release back in 2009. How exactly does he do that again? dunno a terrible TB, maybe?
yeah a TB with dirt hp because bought blink and diffusal
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On January 29 2016 18:32 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:
so many teams are back
newbee is back
alliance is back
c9 is back you haven't mention the best one CHINA IS BACK !!! so far...
fuck
oh yeah ! but i'm sure azarkon is just gonna power up whoever western team is left like a protagonist in a fictional action story just like TI5
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Also the fact that they were able to Jungle the LS(and the LS does that quite fast too), enabling the Zeus to get levels and farms which turned him into a semi-core/monster at the later stages of the game.
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On January 29 2016 18:29 Kipsate wrote:
Despite all the fun we made of the Lifestealer, Newbee's draft is far superior in teamfight, they have far more control and damage. Earth Spirit didn't snowball out of control and thus was just as effective as p much ES support. The Naix allowed them to fight earlier then normal(which led to like 2-3 Roshans). Secret had to find continious pickoffs with LC because they would lose h2h teamfights. a lategame TB would be able to deal with any of the heroes from Newbee but not all together, esp when the other 4 heroes on Newbee scale way better then any of the respective heroes on the Secret side.
Lifestealer also itimized 100% correctly, the AC/Deso made it so they were able to break high ground quite comfortably, quickly and safely with Rage LS, Aegis and DP ultimate. You just didn't understand why he was picked, and I told you. And now you are perhaps all the wiser.
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4665 Posts
giving lane to zeus seems like such a solid idea .yesterday it was during one of the VG games where burning freed his lane for some time for fy to farm and he got something like 9 ins blink dagger on lion..giving farm to one of your supports which can scale from early to mid games seems super efficient
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Well, it's obvious the Naix was picked to shut down the other heroes of Secret, rather than the Terrorblade. He basically killed all the supports without them being able to do anything, due to both supports having no answer to Naix until ghost, and they never made it. The faceless void was a bigger issue that game to Secret's strategy, because they could not initiate into him.
Even still, Secret wasn't even behind until they started taking stupid fights. Had they went to late game with those heroes, and had ghost, and had a farmed EternalEnvy instead of one that built stupid items, they'd have ran over Naix.
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On January 29 2016 18:38 Azarkon wrote:
Well, it's obvious the Naix was picked to shut down the other heroes of Secret, rather than the Terrorblade. He basically killed all the supports without them being able to do anything, due to both supports having no answer to Naix until ghost, and they never made it. The void was a bigger issue that game to Secret's strategy, because they could not initiate into him.
Even still, Secret wasn't even behind until they started taking stupid fights. Had they went to late game with those heroes, and had ghost, and had a farmed EternalEnvy instead of one that built stupid items, they'd have ran over Naix. Magic damage hurts while in ghost.
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On January 29 2016 18:42 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:38 Azarkon wrote:
Well, it's obvious the Naix was picked to shut down the other heroes of Secret, rather than the Terrorblade. He basically killed all the supports without them being able to do anything, due to both supports having no answer to Naix until ghost, and they never made it. The void was a bigger issue that game to Secret's strategy, because they could not initiate into him.
Even still, Secret wasn't even behind until they started taking stupid fights. Had they went to late game with those heroes, and had ghost, and had a farmed EternalEnvy instead of one that built stupid items, they'd have ran over Naix. Magic damage hurts while in ghost.
They needed a pipe in any case, and W33ha ought to have built it.
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did secret lose game3? liquipedia not updated
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I don't think EE's build was bad actually, Secret were being chocked out of the map by Newbee hardcore, they needed to find initiations and quick pickoffs. Blink also enhances his mobility and escapeability. IThere is no item that Envy could get in the required amount of time that would solve the whole Chrono Zeus ult DP ult, ES echo and a magic imuune madman running at you.
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On January 29 2016 18:44 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:42 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:38 Azarkon wrote:
Well, it's obvious the Naix was picked to shut down the other heroes of Secret, rather than the Terrorblade. He basically killed all the supports without them being able to do anything, due to both supports having no answer to Naix until ghost, and they never made it. The void was a bigger issue that game to Secret's strategy, because they could not initiate into him.
Even still, Secret wasn't even behind until they started taking stupid fights. Had they went to late game with those heroes, and had ghost, and had a farmed EternalEnvy instead of one that built stupid items, they'd have ran over Naix. Magic damage hurts while in ghost. They needed a pipe in any case, and W33ha ought to have built it. Yeah, well.
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On January 29 2016 18:34 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:32 Vertical wrote:On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:
so many teams are back
newbee is back
alliance is back
c9 is back you haven't mention the best one CHINA IS BACK !!! so far... fuck oh yeah ! but i'm sure azarkon is just gonna power up whoever western team is left like a protagonist in a fictional action story just like TI5
I think he's currently gone full analysis mode
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On January 29 2016 18:42 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:38 Azarkon wrote:
Well, it's obvious the Naix was picked to shut down the other heroes of Secret, rather than the Terrorblade. He basically killed all the supports without them being able to do anything, due to both supports having no answer to Naix until ghost, and they never made it. The void was a bigger issue that game to Secret's strategy, because they could not initiate into him.
Even still, Secret wasn't even behind until they started taking stupid fights. Had they went to late game with those heroes, and had ghost, and had a farmed EternalEnvy instead of one that built stupid items, they'd have ran over Naix. Magic damage hurts while in ghost.
obv. but it's to kite naix as a support .. it's much better than being an instant casualty everytime naix open wounds you
it works against alot of other cores too like drow
also every skirmish has different positioning you don't lineup conveniently like a bunch of statues all the time for free targeting from zeus or whoever whenever you use ghost scepter
On January 29 2016 18:45 LemOn wrote:
did secret lose game3? liquipedia not updated
yez
On January 29 2016 18:45 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:34 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:32 Vertical wrote:On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:
so many teams are back
newbee is back
alliance is back
c9 is back you haven't mention the best one CHINA IS BACK !!! so far... fuck oh yeah ! but i'm sure azarkon is just gonna power up whoever western team is left like a protagonist in a fictional action story just like TI5 I think he's currently gone full analysis mode
remember that everytime he's not around china wins (TI4) lol
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On January 29 2016 18:45 Kipsate wrote:
I don't think EE's build was bad actually, Secret were being chocked out of the map by Newbee hardcore, they needed to find initiations and quick pickoffs. Blink also enhances his mobility and escapeability. IThere is no item that Envy could get in the required amount of time that would solve the whole Chrono Zeus ult DP ult, ES echo and a magic imuune madman running at you.
He couldn't even survive a single round of spells with that build, which made it so that they couldn't fight at all. I don't think that's what you are trying to achieve when you pick heroes such as the ones they picked.
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missed the earlier EG vs CoL games. did RTZ play furion there?
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On January 29 2016 18:47 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:42 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:38 Azarkon wrote:
Well, it's obvious the Naix was picked to shut down the other heroes of Secret, rather than the Terrorblade. He basically killed all the supports without them being able to do anything, due to both supports having no answer to Naix until ghost, and they never made it. The void was a bigger issue that game to Secret's strategy, because they could not initiate into him.
Even still, Secret wasn't even behind until they started taking stupid fights. Had they went to late game with those heroes, and had ghost, and had a farmed EternalEnvy instead of one that built stupid items, they'd have ran over Naix. Magic damage hurts while in ghost. obv. but it's to kite naix as a support .. it's much better than being an instant casualty everytime naix when he open wounds you it works against alot of other cores too like drow also every skirmish has different positioning you don't lineup conveniently like a bunch of statues all the time for free targeting from zeus or whoever whenever you use ghost scepter Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:45 LemOn wrote:
did secret lose game3? liquipedia not updated yez Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:45 Vertical wrote:On January 29 2016 18:34 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:32 Vertical wrote:On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:
so many teams are back
newbee is back
alliance is back
c9 is back you haven't mention the best one CHINA IS BACK !!! so far... fuck oh yeah ! but i'm sure azarkon is just gonna power up whoever western team is left like a protagonist in a fictional action story just like TI5 I think he's currently gone full analysis mode remember that everytime he's not around china wins (TI4) lol Talking about kiting a singular hero, when it leaves you vulnerable to heavy magic damage from Earthshaker and Zeus is kind of redundant. Not sure where the kiting from the supports comes in, considering he can pop magic immunity.
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On January 29 2016 18:50 trinxified wrote:
missed the earlier EG vs CoL games. did RTZ play furion there?
yez
he went the boring build orchid + drums +aghs
i wish more people would do the legendary bulldog dagger + mjollnir + hex build
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 29 2016 18:50 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:45 Kipsate wrote:
I don't think EE's build was bad actually, Secret were being chocked out of the map by Newbee hardcore, they needed to find initiations and quick pickoffs. Blink also enhances his mobility and escapeability. IThere is no item that Envy could get in the required amount of time that would solve the whole Chrono Zeus ult DP ult, ES echo and a magic imuune madman running at you. He couldn't even survive a single round of spells with that build, which made it so that they couldn't fight at all. I don't think that's what you are trying to achieve when you pick heroes such as the ones they picked.
I don't think any item would allow him to do that, he also wouldn't be able to farm that particular item in the needed time. What they needed was the right form of initation and the ability to do damage with the BKB on(because after that he will just melt/get silenced). You only have a few seconds of DPS uptime available with BKB(and you need to dodge the chrono some fucking how/hope it gets used on others). Blink allows you burst someone down.
Like, the only way he lives is if his supports get a pipe, meka and like 2 glimmer capes/force staves which they were in no position to farm.
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On January 29 2016 18:51 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:47 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:42 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:38 Azarkon wrote:
Well, it's obvious the Naix was picked to shut down the other heroes of Secret, rather than the Terrorblade. He basically killed all the supports without them being able to do anything, due to both supports having no answer to Naix until ghost, and they never made it. The void was a bigger issue that game to Secret's strategy, because they could not initiate into him.
Even still, Secret wasn't even behind until they started taking stupid fights. Had they went to late game with those heroes, and had ghost, and had a farmed EternalEnvy instead of one that built stupid items, they'd have ran over Naix. Magic damage hurts while in ghost. obv. but it's to kite naix as a support .. it's much better than being an instant casualty everytime naix when he open wounds you it works against alot of other cores too like drow also every skirmish has different positioning you don't lineup conveniently like a bunch of statues all the time for free targeting from zeus or whoever whenever you use ghost scepter On January 29 2016 18:45 LemOn wrote:
did secret lose game3? liquipedia not updated yez On January 29 2016 18:45 Vertical wrote:On January 29 2016 18:34 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:32 Vertical wrote:On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:
so many teams are back
newbee is back
alliance is back
c9 is back you haven't mention the best one CHINA IS BACK !!! so far... fuck oh yeah ! but i'm sure azarkon is just gonna power up whoever western team is left like a protagonist in a fictional action story just like TI5 I think he's currently gone full analysis mode remember that everytime he's not around china wins (TI4) lol Talking about kiting a singular hero, when it leaves you vulnerable to heavy magic damage from Earthshaker and Zeus is kind of redundant.
hmm but eventually forcestaffs and glimmers should be coming out and ghost would be more effective in combination even with earth and zeus if played properly
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Well at least we already know who wins the next game
China wins confirmed
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On January 29 2016 18:53 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:51 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:47 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:42 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:38 Azarkon wrote:
Well, it's obvious the Naix was picked to shut down the other heroes of Secret, rather than the Terrorblade. He basically killed all the supports without them being able to do anything, due to both supports having no answer to Naix until ghost, and they never made it. The void was a bigger issue that game to Secret's strategy, because they could not initiate into him.
Even still, Secret wasn't even behind until they started taking stupid fights. Had they went to late game with those heroes, and had ghost, and had a farmed EternalEnvy instead of one that built stupid items, they'd have ran over Naix. Magic damage hurts while in ghost. obv. but it's to kite naix as a support .. it's much better than being an instant casualty everytime naix when he open wounds you it works against alot of other cores too like drow also every skirmish has different positioning you don't lineup conveniently like a bunch of statues all the time for free targeting from zeus or whoever whenever you use ghost scepter On January 29 2016 18:45 LemOn wrote:
did secret lose game3? liquipedia not updated yez On January 29 2016 18:45 Vertical wrote:On January 29 2016 18:34 goody153 wrote:On January 29 2016 18:32 Vertical wrote:On January 29 2016 18:28 goody153 wrote:
so many teams are back
newbee is back
alliance is back
c9 is back you haven't mention the best one CHINA IS BACK !!! so far... fuck oh yeah ! but i'm sure azarkon is just gonna power up whoever western team is left like a protagonist in a fictional action story just like TI5 I think he's currently gone full analysis mode remember that everytime he's not around china wins (TI4) lol Talking about kiting a singular hero, when it leaves you vulnerable to heavy magic damage from Earthshaker and Zeus is kind of redundant. hmm but eventually forcestaffs and glimmers should be coming out and ghost would be more effective in combination even with earth and zeus if played properly But what are the supports supposed to do to him, when he pops spell immunity? They just survive from his assaults, which of cause leaves him to leave them. And with the rest getting BKBs, it is a exercise in futility.
They were hard countered.
Suggesting they should have ghosts, glimmers, and forcestaffs makes me wonder if you feel they have a infinite pool of resources, or if you have ever played support.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Also recognize that Newbee has complete map control, they couldn't do shit when the lifestealer went up to the tower/raxes and just killed it with rage on. Buildings can't kite Lifestealers.
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The issue wasn't TB dying in the first round of spells. Secret's teamfight is just very awkward if the game goes to that kind of a position. Their initiation is ES or LC hard committing. Their supports are also ones who can do very little when that starved. If the TB doesn't have blink, he can't get on top of the people who get disabled because the other team has Earthshaker, Void, etc.
The situation maybe would be different if Secret was ahead in the game in the sense that they could be the ones pushing, in that case the TB is just hitting the tower waiting to be initiated on. But due to what happened in the game, this was not the case and instead it was Newbee who got the roshes and who was pushing towers as a team.
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On January 29 2016 18:52 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:50 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 18:45 Kipsate wrote:
I don't think EE's build was bad actually, Secret were being chocked out of the map by Newbee hardcore, they needed to find initiations and quick pickoffs. Blink also enhances his mobility and escapeability. IThere is no item that Envy could get in the required amount of time that would solve the whole Chrono Zeus ult DP ult, ES echo and a magic imuune madman running at you. He couldn't even survive a single round of spells with that build, which made it so that they couldn't fight at all. I don't think that's what you are trying to achieve when you pick heroes such as the ones they picked. I don't think any item would allow him to do that, he also wouldn't be able to farm that particular item in the needed time. What they needed was the right form of initation and the ability to do damage with the BKB on(because after that he will just melt/get silenced). You only have a few seconds of DPS uptime available with BKB(and you need to dodge the chrono some fucking how/hope it gets used on others). Blink allows you burst someone down. Like, the only way he lives is if his supports get a pipe, meka and like 2 glimmer capes/force staves which they were in no position to farm.
if EE do the regular build with skadi instead of blink+diffusal, at least he can man up and fight.
Instead, he turn tail and run from the very beginning of every team fight because zeus ult has already taken away half of his hp pool.
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Let me tell you this guys:
If you keep changing your flair following a player around, you are just raising the probability of getting disappointed time and time again, more if that player is EE-sama.
Note: It is a joke, but it is funnier because is true.
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On January 29 2016 19:01 CxWiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:52 Kipsate wrote:On January 29 2016 18:50 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 18:45 Kipsate wrote:
I don't think EE's build was bad actually, Secret were being chocked out of the map by Newbee hardcore, they needed to find initiations and quick pickoffs. Blink also enhances his mobility and escapeability. IThere is no item that Envy could get in the required amount of time that would solve the whole Chrono Zeus ult DP ult, ES echo and a magic imuune madman running at you. He couldn't even survive a single round of spells with that build, which made it so that they couldn't fight at all. I don't think that's what you are trying to achieve when you pick heroes such as the ones they picked. I don't think any item would allow him to do that, he also wouldn't be able to farm that particular item in the needed time. What they needed was the right form of initation and the ability to do damage with the BKB on(because after that he will just melt/get silenced). You only have a few seconds of DPS uptime available with BKB(and you need to dodge the chrono some fucking how/hope it gets used on others). Blink allows you burst someone down. Like, the only way he lives is if his supports get a pipe, meka and like 2 glimmer capes/force staves which they were in no position to farm. if EE do the regular build with skadi instead of blink+diffusal, at least he can man up and fight. Instead, he turn tail and run from the very beginning of every team fight because zeus ult has already taken away half of his hp pool.
Like what teamfight? As far as I saw the only teamfight he ran away from was the top one where w33 missed the roll on ES and went very deep, Secret got 3 man chronoed and everyone was scrambling to get out.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 29 2016 19:01 CxWiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 18:52 Kipsate wrote:On January 29 2016 18:50 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 18:45 Kipsate wrote:
I don't think EE's build was bad actually, Secret were being chocked out of the map by Newbee hardcore, they needed to find initiations and quick pickoffs. Blink also enhances his mobility and escapeability. IThere is no item that Envy could get in the required amount of time that would solve the whole Chrono Zeus ult DP ult, ES echo and a magic imuune madman running at you. He couldn't even survive a single round of spells with that build, which made it so that they couldn't fight at all. I don't think that's what you are trying to achieve when you pick heroes such as the ones they picked. I don't think any item would allow him to do that, he also wouldn't be able to farm that particular item in the needed time. What they needed was the right form of initation and the ability to do damage with the BKB on(because after that he will just melt/get silenced). You only have a few seconds of DPS uptime available with BKB(and you need to dodge the chrono some fucking how/hope it gets used on others). Blink allows you burst someone down. Like, the only way he lives is if his supports get a pipe, meka and like 2 glimmer capes/force staves which they were in no position to farm. if EE do the regular build with skadi instead of blink+diffusal, at least he can man up and fight. Instead, he turn tail and run from the very beginning of every team fight because zeus ult has already taken away half of his hp pool.
So he turns on his BKB while Misery/ES initiates, won't be able to kill the target in time due to needing to physically walk there(and your BKB needs to be on while walking due to Earthshaker counterinitiation). That means you don't remove a threat from the fight(Skadi doesn't magically make you do massive amount of damage either) and you still lose. Blink allows you to burst and remove a threat from the fight with the right initation. A TB with Skadi can't manfight against Newbee's lineup lol, it dies when its BKB's run out, ~400-500 hp is not going to change that.
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On January 29 2016 19:05 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 19:01 CxWiLL wrote:On January 29 2016 18:52 Kipsate wrote:On January 29 2016 18:50 Azarkon wrote:On January 29 2016 18:45 Kipsate wrote:
I don't think EE's build was bad actually, Secret were being chocked out of the map by Newbee hardcore, they needed to find initiations and quick pickoffs. Blink also enhances his mobility and escapeability. IThere is no item that Envy could get in the required amount of time that would solve the whole Chrono Zeus ult DP ult, ES echo and a magic imuune madman running at you. He couldn't even survive a single round of spells with that build, which made it so that they couldn't fight at all. I don't think that's what you are trying to achieve when you pick heroes such as the ones they picked. I don't think any item would allow him to do that, he also wouldn't be able to farm that particular item in the needed time. What they needed was the right form of initation and the ability to do damage with the BKB on(because after that he will just melt/get silenced). You only have a few seconds of DPS uptime available with BKB(and you need to dodge the chrono some fucking how/hope it gets used on others). Blink allows you burst someone down. Like, the only way he lives is if his supports get a pipe, meka and like 2 glimmer capes/force staves which they were in no position to farm. if EE do the regular build with skadi instead of blink+diffusal, at least he can man up and fight. Instead, he turn tail and run from the very beginning of every team fight because zeus ult has already taken away half of his hp pool. So he turns on his BKB while Misery/ES initiates, won't be able to kill the target in time due to needing to physically walk there(and your BKB needs to be on while walking due to Earthshaker counterinitiation). That means you don't remove a threat from the fight(Skadi doesn't magically make you do massive amount of damage either) and you still lose. Blink allows you to burst and remove a threat from the fight with the right initation. A TB with Skadi can't manfight against Newbee's lineup lol, it dies when its BKB's run out, ~400-500 hp is not going to change that.
blink on TB is legit to me, but definitely followed by a diffusal.
400-500 hp is not much considering Newbee's burst, but it is not reasonable playing a 1.3k hp carry when it is already 30min into a game against a burst lineup..
I mean, if chuan gets a refresher like a 3k pub, ee can almost die to a refresh ult alone.
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It's easy to talk about all that after it happend...
But I really have to say, I want to download the replay and watch that fight at the top lane to look what secret was doing, while w33 tried to kill ES... Smoke broke, w33 found ES with a stone-kick ... and nobody else moved in on him! WTF?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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Did you know it's technically possible to cancel charge of darkness with savage roar? its aoe is 5 units larger. That's about a 5 millisecond window.
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eleven seems like the next rotk with better mechanics.
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On January 29 2016 19:34 juff wrote:
Did you know it's technically possible to cancel charge of darkness with savage roar? its aoe is 5 units larger. That's about a 5 millisecond window.
Which means its impossible to stop unless you get lucky and precast it before him since human reaction time are around 0.2 to 0.3 seconds.
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last pick TB... vs that line-up.
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Man EHOME just ran the classic LD+Jug , these carry combo is amazing in the mid game and laning stage
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Kick misery/pld/w33/ee, win something
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4665 Posts
that last pick TB was just a suicide..it was not gonna work against heavy burst of ehome
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
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I wish VG would run them over with a scepter skeleton king
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has actually ANYONE built scepter on WK in a pro game ?
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i am not even sure if anyone has built scepter in any game.
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holy shit, cis dota = best dota
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gg... lol, vg got destroyed
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
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it's a sad day to be a vg fan
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VG 6-0 West, 1-3 vs China o.O
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i did not expect this series to end this way
ehome!!
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
big dick lanm getting it done
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ehome with a superb stomp. lol, masterclass right there
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On January 29 2016 20:37 RiZu wrote:
VG 6-0 West, 1-3 vs China o.O
just like when they had black
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DONT FORGET GUYS IT'S VG VS WEST.
Where are you azarkon?
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3 uncontested snowbally cores + a chen ez game
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absolutely flawless play from ehome.
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One hell of a series, Ehome mean business.
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i remember a game, might've been during frankfurt, where vg were making lanm's life hell
what a reversal
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On January 29 2016 20:38 Furikawari wrote:
DONT FORGET GUYS IT'S VG VS WEST.
Where are you azarkon?
maybe he meant vg vs west in the lower bracket?
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4665 Posts
memepush successful..what an outdraft in both games .
hyped for next series
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4 OG players are sick. Feels bad man.
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On January 29 2016 20:38 Furikawari wrote:
DONT FORGET GUYS IT'S VG VS WEST.
Where are you azarkon? They have still done the best versus the West. Most have been draws with the other teams.
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i really like vg, but i enjoyed watching that
a lot
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terrible draft. how the fck were they going to stop any push lol
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Whoa,2-0 to Ehome,very convincing
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On January 29 2016 20:44 haxhax wrote:
4 OG players are sick. Feels bad man.
?? like REALLY sick ? S4 kind ?
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the former prime minister do know how to beat the emperor.
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On January 29 2016 20:49 bluzi wrote:?? like REALLY sick ? S4 kind ?
China can't win against West, so they poison them with food
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On January 29 2016 20:49 bluzi wrote:?? like REALLY sick ? S4 kind ?
No clue. It's just on n0tail's twitter.
Also cr1t says "me and miracle are dead gg".
Apparently one of the chinese players showed up to the event having caught something. Don't remember who, but they mentioned it on stream.
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4665 Posts
that was the problem..how were they going to stop any pushes with ? that felt like forced draft.. "oh, enemy team picked teamfight heroes that can push hard ,so lets just pick wk and let him die first in teamfights after doing damage"
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On January 29 2016 20:56 haxhax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 20:49 bluzi wrote:On January 29 2016 20:44 haxhax wrote:
4 OG players are sick. Feels bad man. ?? like REALLY sick ? S4 kind ? No clue. It's just on n0tail's twitter. Also cr1t says "me and miracle are dead gg". Apparently one of the chinese players showed up to the event having caught something. Don't remember who, but they mentioned it on stream.
cty had a heavy fever on the first day of event
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On January 29 2016 20:56 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 20:49 bluzi wrote:On January 29 2016 20:44 haxhax wrote:
4 OG players are sick. Feels bad man. ?? like REALLY sick ? S4 kind ? China can't win against West, so they poison them with food Still prefered over the cheating at WCA, that is if there is none here.
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No way I'm going to be able to stay up for this last match. Oh well.
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On January 29 2016 21:07 Azarkon wrote:
No way I'm going to be able to stay up for this last match. Oh well. Power nap.
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On January 29 2016 21:07 Azarkon wrote:
No way I'm going to be able to stay up for this last match. Oh well.
Dont you want to see 8kMMR player crushing LGD?
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stupid and lazy question. what time is it where you guys are?
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On January 29 2016 21:24 Artisreal wrote:
stupid and lazy question. what time is it where you guys are?
8.25pm here lol
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On January 29 2016 21:24 Artisreal wrote:
stupid and lazy question. what time is it where you guys are?
9:28am
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did you stay up until now or just joined the fun about now?
1:30pm
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watched the first series then i went to sleep and woke up to watch ehome destroy VG
so im pretty fucked up, but im also on vacations so LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd
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Having a good time is by no means bad
e: LGD picks up TB? What is going on, has the hero won ANY game this tournament yet?
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Cr1t- support Kunkka. Not seen since Team Life.
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I have no problems with Godz or Kotlguy.. but why are they casting every single series?...
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Yes it dit. (regarding question on TB wining a game)
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On January 29 2016 21:24 Artisreal wrote:
stupid and lazy question. what time is it where you guys are?
1:43pm! Just came home from running some errands, seems I had perfect timing
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Kunkka yah
Support buuh
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On January 29 2016 21:24 Artisreal wrote:
stupid and lazy question. what time is it where you guys are?
8.45pm :D
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what about skilling carapace instead
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Quick question: I managed to get a full 9 hours of sleep, after watching EG vs Complexity. And the final Bo3 just started. What took so long?
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rotk
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rOtk please what are you doing
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theres a kunkka, a venge and a gyro
i better TP right next to the tower they are pushing
rofl
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
TB against OD? Well, RIP LGD's lategame.
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gyro already lvl6 holy shit
thank you rotk
that last hit was not worth it considerin how big they were
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OG banned Dark Seer. OG will win. I hate to say "it's that easy". But it almost always is with LGD right now.
Pulling for OG here. I want to see them again Ehome. And it gives a chance for EG vs LGD, VG and then the top 2. That should, hopefully, be some good Dota.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Rotk's feeding is actually winning LGD lanes.
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On January 29 2016 21:53 Faruko wrote:
gyro already lvl6 holy shit
thank you rotk
that last hit was not worth it considerin how big they were
It's the moment u write "baited" in all chat.
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On January 29 2016 21:54 lolfail9001 wrote:
Rotk's feeding is actually winning LGD lanes.
The return of tactical feeding.
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so it's a 4k lead but all on pos 3 4 5 of OG?
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On January 29 2016 21:57 Furikawari wrote:
so it's a 4k lead but all on pos 3 4 5 of OG?
Yes but when I look at those heroes, im not convinced that OG would rather have the lead on 1&2.
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TA gets destroy each time they catch her.
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On January 29 2016 22:01 Furikawari wrote:
TA gets destroy each time they catch her.
or each time TA tries to catch someone
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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Ok, 2. map please, this is over!
5 position Kunkka is more farmed than rotk!
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"the VAC is not working" man kotlguy spews so much shit. That statement doesn't even make any sense in the context he was using
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rotk its the sole reason they lost this game
lvl6 gyro at 6 minutes, let the ganks begin
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owww they are flaming ROTK, unprofessional casters!
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very entertaining stuff from rotk
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yeah. rOtk had -0.4 fantasy points. I didn't even know Fantasy points can go below 0.0
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wow.
i just made soup and washed up the dishes, admittedly a lot of dishes, and the game is over xD
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Current State of the Mid Lane matchup:
Invoker: 11-16
Death Prophet: 11-7
Batrider: 6-11
Outworld Devourer: 8-10
Lina: 5-6
(Only ones with 10+ games)
Some of the OD & Lina games weren't in mid, and a few of the Death Prophet games were against Team Spirit/Mineski, so those barely count. I think this is the reason for the resurgence of the push strategies. There's no stable Mid Laners to choose from in the MDL meta, so either you have to play defense and scale your position 1 late or you try to take towers really quickly. At least, to my eyes that's what I've been seeing.
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On January 29 2016 22:15 Aceace wrote:
yeah. rOtk had -0.4 fantasy points. I didn't even know Fantasy points can go below 0.0
meh, negative fantasy points happen very often
i was still kinda hoping for LGD to pull through but OG played that out nicely
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So, I watch trackdota and I really got bored by "rOtK died" ...
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On January 29 2016 22:20 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Current State of the Mid Lane matchup:
Invoker: 11-16
Death Prophet: 11-7
Batrider: 6-11
Outworld Devourer: 8-10
Lina: 5-6
(Only ones with 10+ games)
Some of the OD & Lina games weren't in mid, and a few of the Death Prophet games were against Team Spirit/Mineski, so those barely count. I think this is the reason for the resurgence of the push strategies. There's no stable Mid Laners to choose from in the MDL meta, so either you have to play defense and scale your position 1 late or you try to take towers really quickly. At least, to my eyes that's what I've been seeing.
What about Earth Spirit? I think only w33 played it mid, but: 20-4 stats...
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On January 29 2016 22:21 Geisterkarle wrote:
So, I watch trackdota and I really got bored by "rOtK died" ...
But that was pretty much the game, in a nutshell.
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On January 29 2016 22:23 Geisterkarle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 22:20 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Current State of the Mid Lane matchup:
Invoker: 11-16
Death Prophet: 11-7
Batrider: 6-11
Outworld Devourer: 8-10
Lina: 5-6
(Only ones with 10+ games)
Some of the OD & Lina games weren't in mid, and a few of the Death Prophet games were against Team Spirit/Mineski, so those barely count. I think this is the reason for the resurgence of the push strategies. There's no stable Mid Laners to choose from in the MDL meta, so either you have to play defense and scale your position 1 late or you try to take towers really quickly. At least, to my eyes that's what I've been seeing. What about Earth Spirit? I think only w33 played it mid, but: 20-4 stats...
I don't think w33 has 24 games on Earth Spirit already and I assume those stats are not KD but wins/losses
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There's been 6 Earth Spirit mid-games. (w33ha was 5-1 on it) Earth Spirit should be perma-banned for the rest of the tournament, so I don't think it's much of an option. Even then, he played it a bit like a cancerous Batrider or Puck. So it wasn't a hard carry role, meaning someone else had to scale hard.
And oh geez, what is with these drafts. >_<
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Yes, Miracle is good on Invoker, but you don't let the Earth Spirit get through. With Dark Seer banned, Morphling isn't going to save you rOtk.
I like LGD, but they're so pigeonholed right now. Though at least the Chinese scene Ranking (Ehome > VG > LGD) is still holding form in the Bracket Stage. VG is having "EG-like" problems with Ehome this patch.
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Fly is going back to the very defensive draft, considering Witch Doctor + Void comes out. If they can hold the lanes, they have this.
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I'm down for the support sven. I think its really fun/interesting, but not necessarily good.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
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On January 29 2016 22:40 Froadac wrote:
I'm down for the support sven. I think its really fun/interesting, but not necessarily good.
It strikes me as a good strategy against Tier 2 teams. It didn't look good against EG, at all.
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On January 29 2016 22:43 rabidch wrote:
sven 5th pick so weird.
My best guess is that they wanted a hero with a great aoe stun to deny the meepo surprise last pick.
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On January 29 2016 22:45 haxhax wrote:My best guess is that they wanted a hero with a great aoe stun to deny the meepo surprise last pick.
Yeah. If they pick the sven last, you could put lina support, although then you have a shit mid... idk. that doesnt seem very effective, but just a thought.
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400ms casting
btw: what is wrong with the heros posture while paused? ES dropped his stick and dazzzles sceptre is hovering next to him..
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On January 29 2016 22:45 haxhax wrote:My best guess is that they wanted a hero with a great aoe stun to deny the meepo surprise last pick.
Well svens stun is aoe, but imho it doesnt qualify as "great" in the aoe department, unless you combo it with a vacuum.
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My experience with Chinese in sports has always been involved in them doing all kinds of tricks to rock your mentality.
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On January 29 2016 22:43 rabidch wrote:
sven 5th pick so weird.
Sven is one of those cores you need to pick late in the draft if you are going to. 5th is really late however.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2016 22:53 Plansix wrote:Sven is one of those cores you need to pick late in the draft if you are going to. 5th is really late however.
He is not even a core this time however.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
ES camping midlane hardcore
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2016 22:58 Kipsate wrote:
ES camping midlane hardcore
So hardcore, his own mid died.
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LGD has a lot of ways to kite DP
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Lina should check her maths...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Nvm, not linkens eblade morph.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Etth Blade morph can be scary cause they can blow up Lina or Void quite quickly
Reflection kinda destroys Morphling though from what I know.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2016 23:09 Kipsate wrote:
Etth Blade morph can be scary cause they can blow up Lina or Void quite quickly
Reflection kinda destroys Morphling though from what I know.
You shotgun TB, man.
Though, TB will likely have manta+skadi by the time morph nears anything useful, so yeah.
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I still don't get what is this OG lineup supposed to do. Seems really all over the place
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Shotgunning TB feels risky, eventually he will have BKB, you are unlikely to kill him straightup and he has Sunder.
game feels quite even, its going to depend on ROTK chronos I feel
;;.
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I don't see how OG can win this. I'll bet they'll lose and morph won't even die...
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i think game looks quite decent for LGD
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I don't feel like OG has the lategame and it seems like LGD is slowly choking out the map.
These kinds of slow games normally favour LGD.
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TB its about to get Skadi and Void its just 1k below DP
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LGD so far executing the 4-1 far superior
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Netherlands45349 Posts
if ROTK gets AC, with Vlads and Sven Warcry LGD is going to be very hard to kill with physical damage if they don't get weaved.
Supports in this game are grossly underleveld lol.
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On January 29 2016 23:17 rabidch wrote:
LGD so far executing the 4-1 far superior
They're far more practiced at it. That's how they win most games.
There's something of a hilarious aspect to both Morphling & Terrorblade farming into late-game. Sylar was the one that brought them back into Chinese meta. So it's Sylar vs non-Sylar doing Sylar things. So this is going to come down to 1-2 team fights. Then someone is losing rax fast.
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Man, why are casters saying OG is 'keeping up' in farm when they're 10k behind at 25 min...
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Finally an rotk move
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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On January 29 2016 23:24 Kipsate wrote:
did that even work?
Didn't look like it did? Void just got healed by the WD + urn, lol
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That was an OSfrog moment...
The more I think about it, the fact that everything seems broken and imbalanced in this patch, is anything actually OP anymore?
edit: yeah it seemed it didn't work, welp
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what happend? was looking away for a second and everyone goes crazy.
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Sunder doesn't work with time walk. Casters are clueless.
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give us scepter sven so tb gets +250dmg when on meta!
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What is the record for lowest kills per minute in a completed game?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 29 2016 23:25 Salazarz wrote:Didn't look like it did? Void just got healed by the WD + urn, lol
I don't think it worked, ROTK was at full life, they swapped he jumped and he still wasn't full life.
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On January 29 2016 23:25 hfglgg wrote:
what happend? was looking away for a second and everyone goes crazy.
TB was getting 'kind of' low and sundered full hp Void who then backtracked but I think the backtrack didn't even work, Void just has a much lower hp pool so WD heal and urn topped him off quickly? Dunno, camera was only on them for half a sec when he sundered so maybe I'm wrong.
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On January 29 2016 23:26 maze. wrote:
Sunder doesn't work with time walk. Casters are clueless.
Yeah that's what I thought too. Shame really
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typical TB game
0/0/0
120123012 / 0
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Godz and Kotlguy can't resist the memes...
Which is kinda okay since the cast was getting stale. Not like I can expect high level analysis from these clowns.
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well you could watch team liquid casting on twitch but you chose bts.
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lgd running around as 5 looking to use rotk chrono but it hasnt work out and it makes them slowly lose the game
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United States13143 Posts
has death prophet even pressed R this game
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you pick a void and dont use chrono in 38 minutes
rofl
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On January 29 2016 23:32 Elyvilon wrote:
has death prophet even pressed R this game
neither void
edit: there and in the opt lane, but thats about it
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I had to turn off the TL stream off when they started talking about the squatting chinese man.
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Rotk saving the fight he just single-handedly ruined moments ago xD
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Wow I thought that would be a disaster for LGD wtf
On January 29 2016 23:35 Salazarz wrote:
Rotk saving the fight he just single-handedly ruined moments ago xD
Yeah it's crazy
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Could have been an awful fight for LGD but rOtK and Sylar recovered it.
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
On January 29 2016 23:34 Faruko wrote:
rofl how did morph died
Looked like he tried to walk up steps on no HP and ran into TB lol
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Netherlands45349 Posts
That was a terrible Chronofrom ROTK into aegis steal from that same person.
????
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typical rotk play there. complete misplay into amazing clutch play saving the fight :D
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What just happened lol I went from roshan being on 1/4 hp to void dieing with aegis on him
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On January 29 2016 23:35 Asha wrote:Looked like he tried to walk up steps on no HP and ran into TB lol
miracle be like
"ooh, fuck this shit"
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On January 29 2016 23:37 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 23:35 Asha wrote:On January 29 2016 23:34 Faruko wrote:
rofl how did morph died Looked like he tried to walk up steps on no HP and ran into TB lol miracle be like "ooh, fuck this shit"
Except he knew TB was there...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
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i keep thinking "where the hell did that Lich come from" only to realize it's a DP
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Netherlands45349 Posts
rotk will he be the savior or the doombringer
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On January 29 2016 23:38 lolfail9001 wrote:
LMAO
to be fair, he has aghs, you might as well take the shot
problem was that they didnt realize right away it wasnt the real one lol
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lgd fuck it up, they moved as 5 way too much and didnt accomplish anything.
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Ok miracle, ok, throw this...
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How does Miracle have no buyback at 49 minutes?
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That might be the game-changing pick off.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Well, Miracle heard the techies guy.
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How did morph end up so deep deary me what is happening
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WHY ROSH OVER RAX???? WTF???????
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Netherlands45349 Posts
the classic I dont have buyback but I think theyl thinkim not stupid so I will have BB strat?
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fuck, azubu died just
what did happen ?
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Man LGD running away when morph still has 30 sec death timer & he hasn't bought back :/
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potential buyback of a morph is too scary lol
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2016 23:45 Furikawari wrote:
WHY ROSH OVER RAX???? WTF???????
They can't know if Miracle has buyback or not and they had no bkbs up.
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Ebola can kick them into their tier 4
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On January 29 2016 23:44 Salazarz wrote:
How did morph end up so deep deary me what is happening
He probably waved in to target the WD.
Stupid move.
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"luckily" lgd has no balls 
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Dat Void and Sven KDA tho!
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Is it time for Aghanim Sven?
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On January 29 2016 23:47 BoesFX wrote:
Is it time for Aghanim Sven?
Actually i dont understand why they dont give Sven more space to farm agha, its really powerful here
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Fly, when he's building a defensive draft, makes sure he has a really good High Ground Defense. This is how they beat EG. Because if things go badly for you early, making breaking high ground super hard (and knowing how to play that way), means you can come back.
It's a good strategic adaptation. Even if it's annoying to watch.
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On January 29 2016 23:50 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Fly, when he's building a defensive draft, makes sure he has a really good High Ground Defense. This is how they beat EG. Because if things go badly for you early, making breaking high ground super hard (and knowing how to play that way), means you can come back.
It's a good strategic adaptation. Even if it's annoying to watch.
I don't think it can be more annoying than ratDota, but it is just a matter of taste.
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On January 29 2016 23:49 Tegenaria wrote:Actually i dont understand why they dont give Sven more space to farm agha, its really powerful here
They're still giving farm to Void, I guess they want him to start getting carry items
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And we are now officially into drive by ratting
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Katowice25012 Posts
time for the buyback vs buyback battle, only settled when someone finally doesnt have them
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they should call it a draw and remake. its faster that way.
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After Sven got the Blink, he's a long ways from Aghs. Though I don't think it's even on their mind.
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The sheepsticks totally wreck Terrorblade
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Katowice25012 Posts
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United States13143 Posts
On January 29 2016 23:55 Taf the Ghost wrote:
After Sven got the Blink, he's a long ways from Aghs. Though I don't think it's even on their mind.
does sven still have 0 points in cleave
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well rotk likes to lose all games today.
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LGD are still playing scared even with most of their rax down.
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United States2123 Posts
Miracle is a preeeetty good player
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Katowice25012 Posts
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now i really love this game hahaha
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That's what u get for playing too passive...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
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well at least it ended interesting
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United States2123 Posts
That moonshaker was clutch but holy shit miracle WHAT A PLAYER
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that was one of hour of foreplay for a crap finish
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Masters of the split push and backdoor.
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return of the kronosphere
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OG banned Dark Seer, picked Earth Spirit, then won the Game.
That's kind of the way it works against LGD.
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This Miracle is nuts good
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glad to see LGD get punished for playing too passive after getting a big advantage.
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dropping skadi for rapier....
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This OG team is kinda good.
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United States2123 Posts
Miracle might just be the best player in the world
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i really like rotk, but...
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Chinese teams seem to never have the wherewithal to actually go and make the game happen. It's really sad seeing them lose in the exact same way as Digital Chaos with far higher player talent.
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On January 30 2016 00:05 Steelavocado wrote:
Miracle might just be the best player in the world
Like, its not even debatable.
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On January 30 2016 00:06 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:05 Steelavocado wrote:
Miracle might just be the best player in the world Like, its not even debatable.
Really ?
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United States2123 Posts
On January 30 2016 00:06 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:05 Steelavocado wrote:
Miracle might just be the best player in the world Like, its not even debatable.
Having a hard time thinking of any other player that has as big of an impact on their team's success
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Hrmm... on stream they said VG vs EG & Newbee vs LGD. Obviously, Team Liquid has it reversed. Though BTS and brackets normally have wonky problems, haha.
Any truly "official" chinese website showing it?
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On January 30 2016 00:05 Acritter wrote:
Chinese teams seem to never have the wherewithal to actually go and make the game happen. It's really sad seeing them lose in the exact same way as Digital Chaos with far higher player talent.
just lgd. watch some ehome haha
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Not bad with 4 sick players.
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LGD is such a wet noodle team.
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On January 30 2016 00:05 Steelavocado wrote:
Miracle might just be the best player in the world
How? Because he is the position one of a relevant team that is doing well lately?
I might have heard that somewhere else.
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On January 30 2016 00:07 Gevna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:06 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:05 Steelavocado wrote:
Miracle might just be the best player in the world Like, its not even debatable. Really ?
He is on a whole new level, no one even comes close.
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On January 30 2016 00:05 Acritter wrote:
Chinese teams seem to never have the wherewithal to actually go and make the game happen. It's really sad seeing them lose in the exact same way as Digital Chaos with far higher player talent.
lgd != chinese teams
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4665 Posts
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive ,but best? Thats wayy more overexxaggeration .
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I'd say with the case of Newbee they try to make things happen too much. Hao's risky carry play is borderline idiotic at times.
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On January 30 2016 00:05 Steelavocado wrote:
Miracle might just be the best player in the world
He's playing the best of anyone at MDL at the moment. But we've gotten to see that because he's bailed his team out of a few bad drafts. But there's still a lot of the tournament left to play, so we'll see.
One of the things you need to win a major LAN is for one of your players to be playing out of his mind. OG won Frankfurt off Crit's play. They could win MDL off Miracle's.
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I'm totally on the Miracle hype train, but this wasn't exactly his most flawless game. Yeah the manta jukes were sick, but he died twice unnecessarily (after the rosh fight running up the ramp into sylar and at dire mid t1 when he went in without his team). The second death would've likely lost the game for his team if LGD had taken the chance on the buyback.
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On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive
You mean Dota is a team game ? I've always thought it was 1 hero, 4 anchors and 5 ennemies.
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4665 Posts
On January 30 2016 00:12 molecu wrote:
I'd say with the case of Newbee they try to make things happen too much. Hao's risky carry play is borderline idiotic at times.
Chuan has the ability to farm too much as a support at times and it sometimes doesn't match with the aggressive nature of hao that he wants to fight all the time
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On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive
Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed.
Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible.
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Who's this Cuam guy? New and upcoming support player? And they say China lacks new talent!
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I'm a Miracle fanboy but that was hardly the game to showcase his skills. First of all Morphling was an excellent, excellent hero against LGD's lineup and Miracle did not exactly play flawless. There were some interesting things he did but by no means did that game show him in another class of player.
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On January 30 2016 00:10 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:05 Acritter wrote:
Chinese teams seem to never have the wherewithal to actually go and make the game happen. It's really sad seeing them lose in the exact same way as Digital Chaos with far higher player talent. lgd != chinese teams
It really depends who's doing the shotcalling. LGD's always had a safe style but rOtk has always been pretty conservative in late game shotcalling.
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On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible.
Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one?
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I don't know. This showed me that Miracle is one of the best core farming playmakers in the game, he is also one of the best afk ricers in the game. I don't think famed ricers like EE or RTZ could pull that networth off given how behind OG were most of the game.
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United States2123 Posts
I think it was FATA or Mutumba that said that "any team with Miracle would have won the Frankfurt major"
His ability to carry and make the teammates around him play to the best of their ability puts him at #1 at this point in time
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On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one?
Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof.
Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork.
Your turn.
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4665 Posts
On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one?
Award is not equals to get called out by few fans/community people. And if there will be such thing as best player award in the future ,it sure will be affected by politics and region influence or it will be influenced by biased audiance if it gets done through voting.
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I could also argue that Messi for instance plays a sport where the rules stay the same for decades, I would like to see how would perform if the only valid way to score was with your head.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
On January 30 2016 00:22 Steelavocado wrote:
I think it was FATA or Mutumba that said that "any team with Miracle would have won the Frankfurt major"
His ability to carry and make the teammates around him play to the best of their ability puts him at #1 at this point in time
He's just best mechanical player out there. I think it was g1 vs lgd where sylar with TB ultied some support and miracle insta astrals him so he's safe. I watched few of his pubs vods on youtube. He's just fastest player i ever seen.
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Yeah, Faker is so miles ahead of his peers that not calling him the best League player would be considered a hate crime.
Dota is so much of a team game that it's hard to consider Miracle great without crediting his team for giving him space to do great things. So how great is Miracle without his team? Would we sing praises for Miracle if he played in some tier 2 NA pub-stack?
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I mean he makes fly looks a good player
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On January 30 2016 00:24 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one? Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof. Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork. Your turn.
You are trying to make it way more complicated then it actually is, any best in anything(mvp) is awarded by popularity vote.
Not every single person in the world thinks Messi is the best footballer in the world, and yet he is. We dont need everyone here to agree Miracle is the best, but if majority agrees, then its settled.
And yes, to me, Miracle has those moments in the game, just like Messi, just like Faker that no one else in the world does and that makes him in my opinion the best and it seems im not alone in this.
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On January 30 2016 00:30 molecu wrote:
Yeah, Faker is so miles ahead of his peers that not calling him the best League player would be considered a hate crime.
Dota is so much of a team game that it's hard to consider Miracle great without crediting his team for giving him space to do great things. So how great is Miracle without his team? Would we sing praises for Miracle if he played in some tier 2 NA pub-stack?
I would rather put him with Dendi and company and see if he can make FeedStyle die less times.....
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Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player
Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting.
Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result.
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On January 30 2016 00:31 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:24 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one? Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof. Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork. Your turn. You are trying to make it way more complicated then it actually is, any best in anything(mvp) is awarded by popularity vote. Not every single person in the world thinks Messi is the best footballer in the world, and yet he is. We dont need everyone here to agree Miracle is the best, but if majority agrees, then its settled. And yes, to me, Miracle has those moments in the game, just like Messi, just like Faker that no one else in the world does and that makes him in my opinion the best and it seems im not alone in this.
Your point is that he Manta'ed right when he had to to make you say WOW!!! I have seen RTZ do that, so what is your point again?
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On January 30 2016 00:21 molecu wrote:
I don't know. This showed me that Miracle is one of the best core farming playmakers in the game, he is also one of the best afk ricers in the game. I don't think famed ricers like EE or RTZ could pull that networth off given how behind OG were most of the game.
He's a morph in a game with no hex (until Lina bought one) or silence. Chrono's the only way to catch him out and the void needs most of his team behind him to have a hope of chainstunning and killing Miracle through morph. His team gave him all the safe farm until he had linkens and they stayed off the map a lot of the time which makes it super hard for LGD to know whether it's even safe to go on the morph.
I'm still impressed with how effortlessly he constantly does little extra things (like all the illusion baits), but he was set up for success this game. And if LGD had had the balls to push when he was dead with no BB, we'd be talking about miracle throwing right now.
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But yeah, I think Miracle is the best player at the moment. Swap Miracle with any of the tier 1 mids we have now and watch OG fall to pieces and see the team Miracle goes to rise above the rest. I can't say if they'll win the next Major, but if they do then Miracle would be one of the best candidates for Dota 2 GOAT.
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On January 30 2016 00:33 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:31 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:24 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one? Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof. Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork. Your turn. You are trying to make it way more complicated then it actually is, any best in anything(mvp) is awarded by popularity vote. Not every single person in the world thinks Messi is the best footballer in the world, and yet he is. We dont need everyone here to agree Miracle is the best, but if majority agrees, then its settled. And yes, to me, Miracle has those moments in the game, just like Messi, just like Faker that no one else in the world does and that makes him in my opinion the best and it seems im not alone in this. Your point is that he Manta'ed right when he had to to make you say WOW!!! I have seen RTZ do that, so what is your point again?
Whats your point, because you are just arguing here without saying anything of value to either your statement or mine.
edit: and why just quote this morph game, like its the only game he played in his career, he did fine but nothing otherworldly. he had far more impressive games this tournament, invoker vs eg game 1 for instance.
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4665 Posts
On January 30 2016 00:37 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:33 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:24 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one? Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof. Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork. Your turn. You are trying to make it way more complicated then it actually is, any best in anything(mvp) is awarded by popularity vote. Not every single person in the world thinks Messi is the best footballer in the world, and yet he is. We dont need everyone here to agree Miracle is the best, but if majority agrees, then its settled. And yes, to me, Miracle has those moments in the game, just like Messi, just like Faker that no one else in the world does and that makes him in my opinion the best and it seems im not alone in this. Your point is that he Manta'ed right when he had to to make you say WOW!!! I have seen RTZ do that, so what is your point again? Whats your point, because you are just arguing here without saying anything of value to either your statement or mine.
He already countered u with miracle is not the best player .his team is providing him a big support and space to make him farmed late game.and the thing u were praising miracle was also done by many players in the past such as flashy plays.and u are just using awards as a means of discussions which are pretty pointless.
This tournament suddenly got more interesting as 2 of western teams are still in competition of battlefury
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http://mdl.huomaotv.cn/#f
Okay, the site would take a while to load, but I did find their copy of the Brackets.
They have Newbee vs LGD & VG vs EG. So I'd take that as "official". Granted, I'd have really hoped it was the other way. Would have made for a better games in the next round.
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4665 Posts
On January 30 2016 00:41 Taf the Ghost wrote:http://mdl.huomaotv.cn/#fOkay, the site would take a while to load, but I did find their copy of the Brackets. They have Newbee vs LGD & VG vs EG. So I'd take that as "official". Granted, I'd have really hoped it was the other way. Would have made for a better games in the next round.
Idk why they changed this or they fcked up but vg va EG in next round could have been better match if hy beat bewbee .
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On January 30 2016 00:41 Taf the Ghost wrote:http://mdl.huomaotv.cn/#fOkay, the site would take a while to load, but I did find their copy of the Brackets. They have Newbee vs LGD & VG vs EG. So I'd take that as "official". Granted, I'd have really hoped it was the other way. Would have made for a better games in the next round.
Wouldn't it be LGD vs VG in the next round either way?
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On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result.
Fly carried Col to the second-worst possible placing at TI5...
He's literally had zero real success with a non-Miracle team.
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On January 30 2016 00:40 Kamisamanachi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:37 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:33 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:24 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one? Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof. Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork. Your turn. You are trying to make it way more complicated then it actually is, any best in anything(mvp) is awarded by popularity vote. Not every single person in the world thinks Messi is the best footballer in the world, and yet he is. We dont need everyone here to agree Miracle is the best, but if majority agrees, then its settled. And yes, to me, Miracle has those moments in the game, just like Messi, just like Faker that no one else in the world does and that makes him in my opinion the best and it seems im not alone in this. Your point is that he Manta'ed right when he had to to make you say WOW!!! I have seen RTZ do that, so what is your point again? Whats your point, because you are just arguing here without saying anything of value to either your statement or mine. He already countered u with miracle is not the best player .his team is providing him a big support and space to make him farmed late game.and the thing u were praising miracle was also done by many players in the past such as flashy plays.and u are just using awards as a means of discussions which are pretty pointless. This tournament suddenly got more interesting as 2 of western teams are still in competition of battlefury
So everything Messi does is just because his team provided space and support, he is just as good as every other "flashy" player in the world? Ever stopped to wonder that maybe just maybe, Miracle is the one that makes OG shine and not the other way around.
Game 1 vs eg he won pretty much alone, that does happen, even in dota.
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Not necessarily related to this game but from what I have seen from following pro-dota during the last 8 years and having played it on a decent level as well for the last 4 my assessment is that miracle is the most gifted player mechanically I have ever seen. Is he the best player period? Hard to say, too much going on at that level for me to judge his game sense, movements and teamwork compared to other top players but if Fata and Matumba says he is the best, I would not be hard to convince.
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On January 30 2016 00:49 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result. Fly carried Col to the second-worst possible placing at TI5... He's literally had zero real success with a non-Miracle team.
Col, a team with four players that had never even attended a Dota LAN before getting 9-12th at TI.
Anyway, haters gonna downplay.
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On January 30 2016 00:37 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:33 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:24 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one? Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof. Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork. Your turn. You are trying to make it way more complicated then it actually is, any best in anything(mvp) is awarded by popularity vote. Not every single person in the world thinks Messi is the best footballer in the world, and yet he is. We dont need everyone here to agree Miracle is the best, but if majority agrees, then its settled. And yes, to me, Miracle has those moments in the game, just like Messi, just like Faker that no one else in the world does and that makes him in my opinion the best and it seems im not alone in this. Your point is that he Manta'ed right when he had to to make you say WOW!!! I have seen RTZ do that, so what is your point again? Whats your point, because you are just arguing here without saying anything of value to either your statement or mine. edit: and why just quote this morph game, like its the only game he played in his career, he did fine but nothing otherworldly. he had far more impressive games this tournament, invoker vs eg game 1 for instance.
Its ok, I understand you, you are just saying that Miracle is the best player in the world, like chocolate icecream is the best taste in the world. It is not a matter of who/what is the best but rather that you like him/it better than any other.
I, personally, try to express in forums more neutral because, like in this case, it is easily misunderstandable. With friends I speak like you do, because they know me and know what I mean with less words or even wrong ones.
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On January 30 2016 00:36 molecu wrote:
But yeah, I think Miracle is the best player at the moment. Swap Miracle with any of the tier 1 mids we have now and watch OG fall to pieces and see the team Miracle goes to rise above the rest. I can't say if they'll win the next Major, but if they do then Miracle would be one of the best candidates for Dota 2 GOAT.
You're taking something reasonable (Miracle's probably THE standout player since TI) and going unreasonable places with it. OG wouldn't fall to pieces without Miracle, though they would definitely be weakened (how much none of us can say, let's stop pretending). Miracle couldn't carry any 4 players to relevancy. And GOAT candidates in Dota 2 are people like Puppey or Xiao8, who's won a TI and gotten top 3 3 times playing 3 different positions. Not a guy whose career accomplishments are winning 2 tournaments that aren't TI.
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On January 30 2016 00:49 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result. Fly carried Col to the second-worst possible placing at TI5... He's literally had zero real success with a non-Miracle team.
Getting 9-12th with that squad is somehow not considered a success? Get real, lmao. Results other than first can be considered a success, it's all relative to who achieves them.
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On January 30 2016 00:53 Zinbiel wrote:
Not necessarily related to this game but from what I have seen from following pro-dota during the last 8 years and having played it on a decent level as well for the last 4 my assessment is that miracle is the most gifted player mechanically I have ever seen. Is he the best player period? Hard to say, too much going on at that level for me to judge his game sense, movements and teamwork compared to other top players but if Fata and Matumba says he is the best, I would not be hard to convince.
That is the point, he doesnt have to be the absolute best in every single aspect of the game to be the best in the world. Just better then the next best. Im pretty sure Messi is a shit goalkeeper.
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On January 30 2016 00:50 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:40 Kamisamanachi wrote:On January 30 2016 00:37 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:33 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:24 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one? Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof. Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork. Your turn. You are trying to make it way more complicated then it actually is, any best in anything(mvp) is awarded by popularity vote. Not every single person in the world thinks Messi is the best footballer in the world, and yet he is. We dont need everyone here to agree Miracle is the best, but if majority agrees, then its settled. And yes, to me, Miracle has those moments in the game, just like Messi, just like Faker that no one else in the world does and that makes him in my opinion the best and it seems im not alone in this. Your point is that he Manta'ed right when he had to to make you say WOW!!! I have seen RTZ do that, so what is your point again? Whats your point, because you are just arguing here without saying anything of value to either your statement or mine. He already countered u with miracle is not the best player .his team is providing him a big support and space to make him farmed late game.and the thing u were praising miracle was also done by many players in the past such as flashy plays.and u are just using awards as a means of discussions which are pretty pointless. This tournament suddenly got more interesting as 2 of western teams are still in competition of battlefury So everything Messi does is just because his team provided space and support, he is just as good as every other "flashy" player in the world? Ever stopped to wonder that maybe just maybe, Miracle is the one that makes OG shine and not the other way around. Game 1 vs eg he won pretty much alone, that does happen, even in dota.
Miracle is running their playmaking cores, while noTail is running their more stable cores. The way OG is drafting (or screwing up their drafts) is creating a lot of room for Miracle to make plays. Which he is. It's a lot like how EG ran with Sumail & Fear at TI5. So Miracle is having a great tournament. Let's see how it plays out as the meta progresses.
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On January 30 2016 00:10 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:05 Acritter wrote:
Chinese teams seem to never have the wherewithal to actually go and make the game happen. It's really sad seeing them lose in the exact same way as Digital Chaos with far higher player talent. lgd != chinese teams The game that Newbee lost to EG in group stage was one too.
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On January 30 2016 00:50 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:40 Kamisamanachi wrote:On January 30 2016 00:37 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:33 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:24 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:20 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:14 Racket wrote:On January 30 2016 00:11 Kamisamanachi wrote:
A player having high impact doesn't always make him the best player, I think. He is using the space. Created by his teammates to farm and carry them in the late game.its more like teamwork ,tbh..yeah he is pretty impressive Like Suma1l was, and now he is getting bashed. Miracle is a great player, better than many, but being the best in the world in dota is an almost impossible to proof statement if not completely impossible. Why do you think so? Every other sport has the best player in the world and some sort of an award for it, hell, League of Legends has one and so does CSGO, what makes dota so special you cant name one? Whether other sports have something like that does not make it a must for dota, in addition, other sports having them has nothing to do with making an statement possible to proof. Faker being considered the best player in LoL has to do with the nature and mechanics of the game rather than with decision making and teamwork. Your turn. You are trying to make it way more complicated then it actually is, any best in anything(mvp) is awarded by popularity vote. Not every single person in the world thinks Messi is the best footballer in the world, and yet he is. We dont need everyone here to agree Miracle is the best, but if majority agrees, then its settled. And yes, to me, Miracle has those moments in the game, just like Messi, just like Faker that no one else in the world does and that makes him in my opinion the best and it seems im not alone in this. Your point is that he Manta'ed right when he had to to make you say WOW!!! I have seen RTZ do that, so what is your point again? Whats your point, because you are just arguing here without saying anything of value to either your statement or mine. He already countered u with miracle is not the best player .his team is providing him a big support and space to make him farmed late game.and the thing u were praising miracle was also done by many players in the past such as flashy plays.and u are just using awards as a means of discussions which are pretty pointless. This tournament suddenly got more interesting as 2 of western teams are still in competition of battlefury So everything Messi does is just because his team provided space and support, he is just as good as every other "flashy" player in the world? Ever stopped to wonder that maybe just maybe, Miracle is the one that makes OG shine and not the other way around. Game 1 vs eg he won pretty much alone, that does happen, even in dota.
Did you see Messi playing in his national team? He actually plays quite differently because he is given a different role and the weight he must pull is way heavier, the players around him and the quality of those is on a different level. The discussion going around in Argentina is that Messi is worse than Maradona because he can't carry his team (a better team in some people's eyes) in the world cup like Maradona did, truth or lie, that is what is going around.
On the other hand, what I have seen Messi do with his feet, only a few other matched it and not so many times as he does it. Miracle for comparison's sake does what I see players do for the last four or five years at least.
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On January 30 2016 00:55 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:36 molecu wrote:
But yeah, I think Miracle is the best player at the moment. Swap Miracle with any of the tier 1 mids we have now and watch OG fall to pieces and see the team Miracle goes to rise above the rest. I can't say if they'll win the next Major, but if they do then Miracle would be one of the best candidates for Dota 2 GOAT. You're taking something reasonable (Miracle's probably THE standout player since TI) and going unreasonable places with it. OG wouldn't fall to pieces without Miracle, though they would definitely be weakened (how much none of us can say, let's stop pretending). Miracle couldn't carry any 4 players to relevancy. And GOAT candidates in Dota 2 are people like Puppey or Xiao8, who's won a TI and gotten top 3 3 times playing 3 different positions. Not a guy whose career accomplishments are winning 2 tournaments that aren't TI.
Did you just compare people who played this game for 10 years to a guy whos been playing it for 6 months? And no one here is talking about whos the best in the history of dota, we are talking whos best right now.
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On January 30 2016 01:00 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:55 Orome wrote:On January 30 2016 00:36 molecu wrote:
But yeah, I think Miracle is the best player at the moment. Swap Miracle with any of the tier 1 mids we have now and watch OG fall to pieces and see the team Miracle goes to rise above the rest. I can't say if they'll win the next Major, but if they do then Miracle would be one of the best candidates for Dota 2 GOAT. You're taking something reasonable (Miracle's probably THE standout player since TI) and going unreasonable places with it. OG wouldn't fall to pieces without Miracle, though they would definitely be weakened (how much none of us can say, let's stop pretending). Miracle couldn't carry any 4 players to relevancy. And GOAT candidates in Dota 2 are people like Puppey or Xiao8, who's won a TI and gotten top 3 3 times playing 3 different positions. Not a guy whose career accomplishments are winning 2 tournaments that aren't TI. Did you just compare people who played this game for 10 years to a guy whos been playing it for 6 months? And no one here is talking about whos the best in the history of dota, we are talking whos best right now.
So that can change tomorrow?
Nice discussion we have going on...
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Miracle is the best player at the moment according to my poorly defined set of qualifications and gut feeling. But not by a wide margin. It's also that the top teams right now (EG, Alliance, EHOME, VG) don't have any outstanding players in terms of epic plays it's easy for Miracle to shine.
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On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result.
i think that flys technical skill is often overlooked because he tends to play the passive pos 5 support heroes. on col it was him dragging the whole team to victories on heroes like tusk or lina and he really showed that he can make the difference.
but otherwise i agree, fly is one of the top tier captains and had decent results with both fnatic and col.
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On January 30 2016 01:00 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:55 Orome wrote:On January 30 2016 00:36 molecu wrote:
But yeah, I think Miracle is the best player at the moment. Swap Miracle with any of the tier 1 mids we have now and watch OG fall to pieces and see the team Miracle goes to rise above the rest. I can't say if they'll win the next Major, but if they do then Miracle would be one of the best candidates for Dota 2 GOAT. You're taking something reasonable (Miracle's probably THE standout player since TI) and going unreasonable places with it. OG wouldn't fall to pieces without Miracle, though they would definitely be weakened (how much none of us can say, let's stop pretending). Miracle couldn't carry any 4 players to relevancy. And GOAT candidates in Dota 2 are people like Puppey or Xiao8, who's won a TI and gotten top 3 3 times playing 3 different positions. Not a guy whose career accomplishments are winning 2 tournaments that aren't TI. Did you just compare people who played this game for 10 years to a guy whos been playing it for 6 months? And no one here is talking about whos the best in the history of dota, we are talking whos best right now.
Actually the guy I quoted did that. And the guy I quoted DID talk about who is the best in the history of dota. Not everyone's replying to you.
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On January 30 2016 00:49 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result. Fly carried Col to the second-worst possible placing at TI5... He's literally had zero real success with a non-Miracle team. They were 9-12 out of 16 teams. They were 3rd in group stages. Way above the expectations.
Zero success? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Fly and that is just in Dota.
Thanks for showing you are ignorant, and your willingness to do so.
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On January 30 2016 01:02 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 01:00 Super_Style wrote:On January 30 2016 00:55 Orome wrote:On January 30 2016 00:36 molecu wrote:
But yeah, I think Miracle is the best player at the moment. Swap Miracle with any of the tier 1 mids we have now and watch OG fall to pieces and see the team Miracle goes to rise above the rest. I can't say if they'll win the next Major, but if they do then Miracle would be one of the best candidates for Dota 2 GOAT. You're taking something reasonable (Miracle's probably THE standout player since TI) and going unreasonable places with it. OG wouldn't fall to pieces without Miracle, though they would definitely be weakened (how much none of us can say, let's stop pretending). Miracle couldn't carry any 4 players to relevancy. And GOAT candidates in Dota 2 are people like Puppey or Xiao8, who's won a TI and gotten top 3 3 times playing 3 different positions. Not a guy whose career accomplishments are winning 2 tournaments that aren't TI. Did you just compare people who played this game for 10 years to a guy whos been playing it for 6 months? And no one here is talking about whos the best in the history of dota, we are talking whos best right now. So that can change tomorrow? Nice discussion we have going on...
Of course its subject to change, maybe tomorrow Miracle breaks his arm and quits dota.(ok im going overboard on this one)
But ye esport careers are short and best team and best players in the world change frequently. Im not saying tomorrow but its possible for shanghai meta changes that doesnt fit miracle and og loses in group stages due to his poor performance.
All im saying is that right now, in this moment, in this patch, he is the best player. I mean even pro players agree on this, you should hear matumbaman stream and how fata faps to everything Miracle does.
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Well to be honest I have low opinions on Fly, Moon and Notail so I massively overrate how Miracle is carrying OG and massively underrate the rest of OG. Like the other guy said, Fly and Moon had never had success outside of Miracle team. Also I never said Miracle could carry any 4 players, what I meant was teams with tier 1 mids like Liquid, Alliance, or EG. So swap in Miracle for them and they have very high chance of winning the major. And just how good Miracle is playing I'm tempted to nominate Miracle GOAT candidacy if OG wins the Major.
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On January 30 2016 01:00 Super_Style wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:55 Orome wrote:On January 30 2016 00:36 molecu wrote:
But yeah, I think Miracle is the best player at the moment. Swap Miracle with any of the tier 1 mids we have now and watch OG fall to pieces and see the team Miracle goes to rise above the rest. I can't say if they'll win the next Major, but if they do then Miracle would be one of the best candidates for Dota 2 GOAT. You're taking something reasonable (Miracle's probably THE standout player since TI) and going unreasonable places with it. OG wouldn't fall to pieces without Miracle, though they would definitely be weakened (how much none of us can say, let's stop pretending). Miracle couldn't carry any 4 players to relevancy. And GOAT candidates in Dota 2 are people like Puppey or Xiao8, who's won a TI and gotten top 3 3 times playing 3 different positions. Not a guy whose career accomplishments are winning 2 tournaments that aren't TI. Did you just compare people who played this game for 10 years to a guy whos been playing it for 6 months? And no one here is talking about whos the best in the history of dota, we are talking whos best right now. Miracle has played longer than 6 months.
He started playing on Balkan Bears 1 year ago, with W33, and they didn't do anything at tier 3 tournaments. I hope it answers yours, and others questions.
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On January 30 2016 01:11 molecu wrote:
Well to be honest I have low opinions on Fly, Moon and Notail so I massively overrate how Miracle is carrying OG and massively underrate the rest of OG. Like the other guy said, Fly and Moon had never had success outside of Miracle team. Also I never said Miracle could carry any 4 players, what I meant was teams with tier 1 mids like Liquid, Alliance, or EG. So swap in Miracle for them and they have very high chance of winning the major. And just how good Miracle is playing I'm tempted to nominate Miracle GOAT candidacy if OG wins the Major. Repeating one guys ignorance is not very smart.
Fly has been to 3 TIs.
Obviously Miracle is good, but it is the team that puts him in this spot. When he falters the team lifts him. He nearly cost OG game 2 twice, and it was their defence, that held so Miracle could backdoor, which was done on Flys command, and yet people talk about Miracle as if it is all on him.
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4665 Posts
Is that bracket really correct? I mean , the one posted by taf .I am.seeing newbee vs vg and EG vs LGD on other all sites
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On January 30 2016 01:11 molecu wrote:
Well to be honest I have low opinions on Fly, Moon and Notail so I massively overrate how Miracle is carrying OG and massively underrate the rest of OG. Like the other guy said, Fly and Moon had never had success outside of Miracle team. Also I never said Miracle could carry any 4 players, what I meant was teams with tier 1 mids like Liquid, Alliance, or EG. So swap in Miracle for them and they have very high chance of winning the major. And just how good Miracle is playing I'm tempted to nominate Miracle GOAT candidacy if OG wins the Major.
I've never liked the old fnatic squad much or any of their players specifically, but to say that Fly 'never had success' before is fucking dumb, lol. Just because you don't win a TI doesn't mean you're not successful.
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How coL improved when Fly and Moon joined them was pretty impressive before TI. Moon "not having success" before doesn't seem very relevant because which team could he have had that success with? Fly and n0tail have had success at different points, whether it was in Fnatic, Secret, c9 or coL. Of course they were not the best in the world in any of those teams but still had a number of good finishes in different tournaments.
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On January 30 2016 00:53 haxhax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:49 hariooo wrote:On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result. Fly carried Col to the second-worst possible placing at TI5... He's literally had zero real success with a non-Miracle team. Col, a team with four players that had never even attended a Dota LAN before getting 9-12th at TI. Anyway, haters gonna downplay.
It's on the level of Bulba going apeshit over getting 8th place.
You have players way better than Fly getting shit on after every poor performance but because Fly is likable, him doing well the last few months for the first time in his career means revisionist history of his entire career of how he was always great.
On January 30 2016 01:06 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:49 hariooo wrote:On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result. Fly carried Col to the second-worst possible placing at TI5... He's literally had zero real success with a non-Miracle team. They were 9-12 out of 16 teams. They were 3rd in group stages. Way above the expectations. Zero success? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Fly and that is just in Dota. Thanks for showing you are ignorant, and your willingness to do so.
Group stage is irrelevant. They finished one placing better than last place. I mean I guess that's not bad but... lol.
And you can link his wiki all you like but all I see are failures at major tournaments and consistent tier 3 performance at TI's.
Of course he's doing well now but can people take it in context without acting like he's doing something amazing? Before Frankfurt he was like a top 50 player at best
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2016 01:53 hariooo wrote:
It's on the level of Bulba going apeshit over getting 8th place.
You have players way better than Fly getting shit on after every poor performance but because Fly is likable, him doing well the last few months for the first time in his career means revisionist history of his entire career of how he was always great.
I think the revisionist history part of things is dumb. Personally, I found Fly to be a wholly unimpressive player during his time on Fnatic and he never really stood out to me in any way.
That said, I think you do have to acknowledge his tremendous growth as a player during the period since Fnatic's disbanding and him joining OG. Fly played visibly better over the course of his stay on coL and by the time he was on OG, you could definitely say that on an individual level, he was a far better DotA 2 player than he was when he was on Fnatic.
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Of course it's true that noone was really talking about Fly as the next captain of one of the best teams, and OG is a significant step up from what the general impression of him was. He still had moderate success in past teams. But I agree that it seems a bit funny to talk about Fly's success considering how regularly certain other teams/players get shit on
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I didn't believe in Fly until I saw Complexity's games through the qualifiers. When Secret replaced him with Zai, i thought it kind of justified itself even though I was initially skeptical of Zai's transition into the offlane.
As someone who loosely followed the NA scene, Complexity before their then finalized TI roster weren't even Tier 2 caliber, not remotely close. It wasn't until Swindle went down on his knees to beg for Moon to come back at last minute and Fly needing a team after getting the kick where the two players literally turned this team struggling to get through bottom no name NA/SA teams into something that can perform well against TI teams.
Fly and Moon are the standout players from Complexity. I didn't think much of Moon because his mid was sort of mediocre but he really found his calling in life in the offlane, he won every single lane in the regional qualifiers and I would still say Moon is a top 3 Offlaner (no joke) world.
On a final complexity related note, Swindle somehow finds a way to stay relevant. I don't know if it's because of his leadership or being desperate. Not to get all meta but I see Swindle and PPD being more or less the same person.
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howd i even doublepost without quoting fuck it
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On January 30 2016 03:07 Kuroeeah wrote:
I didn't believe in Fly until I saw Complexity's games through the qualifiers. When Secret replaced him with Zai, i thought it kind of justified itself even though I was initially skeptical of Zai's transition into the offlane.
As someone who loosely followed the NA scene, Complexity before their then finalized TI roster weren't even Tier 2 caliber, not remotely close. It wasn't until Swindle went down on his knees to beg for Moon to come back at last minute and Fly needing a team after getting the kick where the two players literally turned this team struggling to get through bottom no name NA/SA teams into something that can perform well against TI teams.
Fly and Moon are the standout players from Complexity. I didn't think much of Moon because his mid was sort of mediocre but he really found his calling in life in the offlane, he won every single lane in the regional qualifiers and I would still say Moon is a top 3 Offlaner (no joke) world.
On a final complexity related note, Swindle somehow finds a way to stay relevant. I don't know if it's because of his leadership or being desperate. Not to get all meta but I see Swindle and PPD being more or less the same person.
On Swindle, he managed to put together what seems like the most dominant HoN LAN team, so the guy does know how to perform and run things. It also helps that 4 of the 5 current Complexity squad was also on that HoN squad.
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On January 30 2016 01:53 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 00:53 haxhax wrote:On January 30 2016 00:49 hariooo wrote:On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result. Fly carried Col to the second-worst possible placing at TI5... He's literally had zero real success with a non-Miracle team. Col, a team with four players that had never even attended a Dota LAN before getting 9-12th at TI. Anyway, haters gonna downplay. It's on the level of Bulba going apeshit over getting 8th place. You have players way better than Fly getting shit on after every poor performance but because Fly is likable, him doing well the last few months for the first time in his career means revisionist history of his entire career of how he was always great. Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 01:06 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 30 2016 00:49 hariooo wrote:On January 30 2016 00:32 Valhalla44 wrote:On January 30 2016 00:31 Faruko wrote:
I mean he makes fly looks a good player Fly is smth like ppd. Not great mechanical player but his game knowledge is quite great and his shows that in drafting. Fly carried coL to that good ti5 result. Fly carried Col to the second-worst possible placing at TI5... He's literally had zero real success with a non-Miracle team. They were 9-12 out of 16 teams. They were 3rd in group stages. Way above the expectations. Zero success? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Fly and that is just in Dota. Thanks for showing you are ignorant, and your willingness to do so. Group stage is irrelevant. They finished one placing better than last place. I mean I guess that's not bad but... lol. And you can link his wiki all you like but all I see are failures at major tournaments and consistent tier 3 performance at TI's. Of course he's doing well now but can people take it in context without acting like he's doing something amazing? Before Frankfurt he was like a top 50 player at best Not sure what world you live in, but group stages are games against teams you are competing with and beating them, means you did well against them. They are also deciders of where you play. 9-12 is 4-7 places from last, of the best teams in the world, and that is from a team that just formed, came out of nowhere and qualified thrashing bigger teams on their way.
Not sure why anyone would care about your opinion of his placings,when 1-3 pos in many tournaments are positions that proves quality. You talk like your ignorance or approval mattered. It doesn't. To a normal functioning person it does prove quality. Anyone of competence understands that Fly is a great captain, that masters several strategies. You don't because you don't understand these things. Responding that things don't matter just because they are detrimental to your non-argument, is just weak.
What is this context you talk of? Them being a great team, with him being a top captain, and Moon being a world class offlaner? Yes, you'd be right. They are one of the best teams in the world, because they are one of the best teams in the world in a team game. Why you'd like to slate him for this is anyone's guess. You thinking that it is Miracle that carries him, is you just not understanding a team game such as Dota, where I may suggest you find something that is more within your grasp.
So you feel he is nothing special, yet you feel it is nothing special to captain and win a Major, or qualify for several internationals.
Why would anyone take your response as anything that is just too stupid? And at best a poor troll showing how little you understand.
I guess I shouldn't take someone who write "lol" very seriously.
I see you are supporting Secret. W33haa is on par with Miracle. PPY is a world class captain. Something seems missing in relation to OG, does it not? Isn't it you EE-believers that said that EE wanted W33haa over Miracle? You got him. Now you seem eternal envious.
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somewhere in that long and hostile edit history i saw some personal attacks on the character hehehehe
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On January 30 2016 05:37 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
somewhere in that long and hostile edit history i saw some personal attacks on the character hehehehe I am sure you feel proud of that.
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proud isn't the word i would use to describe any of the emotions or feelings i got while reading any of your posts
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On January 30 2016 05:41 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
proud isn't the word i would use to describe any of the emotions or feelings i got while reading any of your posts Well, it must have been similar, since you want to boast about it.
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no i was just giving context to any mods who were reviewing my report as to why i chose "personal attacks" as the reason
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On January 30 2016 05:44 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
no i was just giving context to any mods who were reviewing my report as to why i chose "personal attacks" as the reason Because you feel they would doubt you?
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On January 30 2016 05:47 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 05:44 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
no i was just giving context to any mods who were reviewing my report as to why i chose "personal attacks" as the reason Because you feel they would doubt you?
well i know for a fact that for awhile teamliquid was on a system where mods could only see the first and final versions... but overall i've found most of your posts in all of the MDL threads to be highly unpleasant and unnecessarily antagonistic, so i've got a bit of a personal vendetta against you now, since it's in the interest of servicing my own thread browsing pleasure to be rid of you (i've found that user blocking script annoying to use, but maybe i should give it another shot)
you're definitely not the only one with personality issues when discussing impressions of players and teams, but imo you're the worst
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On January 30 2016 05:49 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 05:47 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 30 2016 05:44 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
no i was just giving context to any mods who were reviewing my report as to why i chose "personal attacks" as the reason Because you feel they would doubt you? well i know for a fact that for awhile teamliquid was on a system where mods could only see the first and final versions... but overall i've found most of your posts in all of the MDL threads to be highly unpleasant and unnecessarily antagonistic, so i've got a bit of a personal vendetta against you now, since it's in the interest of servicing my own thread browsing pleasure to be rid of you Oh, so this is a personal vendetta, behind my back. And now you want to promote your courage.
I am sure you feel your posting right now is highly pleasant and necessarily antagonistic. Are you baiting?
"you're definitely not the only one with personality issues when discussing impressions of players and teams, but imo you're the worst". And your opinion matters because? I know what I talk about. What about you? Several posters on here agrees that this dude doesn't really know what he is talking about, when slating players.
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On January 30 2016 03:07 Kuroeeah wrote:
I didn't believe in Fly until I saw Complexity's games through the qualifiers. When Secret replaced him with Zai, i thought it kind of justified itself even though I was initially skeptical of Zai's transition into the offlane.
As someone who loosely followed the NA scene, Complexity before their then finalized TI roster weren't even Tier 2 caliber, not remotely close. It wasn't until Swindle went down on his knees to beg for Moon to come back at last minute and Fly needing a team after getting the kick where the two players literally turned this team struggling to get through bottom no name NA/SA teams into something that can perform well against TI teams.
Fly and Moon are the standout players from Complexity. I didn't think much of Moon because his mid was sort of mediocre but he really found his calling in life in the offlane, he won every single lane in the regional qualifiers and I would still say Moon is a top 3 Offlaner (no joke) world.
On a final complexity related note, Swindle somehow finds a way to stay relevant. I don't know if it's because of his leadership or being desperate. Not to get all meta but I see Swindle and PPD being more or less the same person.
Though coL has yet to break out of the tier 2 rut this patch, I think swindle has been playing the offlane better than he was playing mid at TI5.
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i mean you can definitely project that you know what you're talking about without the haughty attitude and personal attacks
i've no issue with any of the substance, only most of the presentation
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On January 30 2016 05:56 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
i mean you can definitely project that you know what you're talking about without the haughty attitude and personal attacks I respond in kind. I don't do well with disrespectful posts, whose sole purpose is trolling. I try to edit it out, which you for some reason have a problem with.
I think it is better than going on personal vendettas, posting off-topic of your emotional distress about people with ability, because you are envious.
So if you want to participate in the debate about Fly, and/or OG, join in.
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On January 30 2016 06:06 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 05:56 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
i mean you can definitely project that you know what you're talking about without the haughty attitude and personal attacks I respond in kind. I don't do well with disrespectful posts. I try to edit it out, which you for some reason have a problem with.
I think it is better than going on personal vendettas, posting off-topic of your emotional distress about people with ability, because you are envious.So if you want to participate in the debate about Fly, and/or OG, join in.
i mean you're still doing it 
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On January 30 2016 06:10 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 06:06 Dracolich70 wrote:On January 30 2016 05:56 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
i mean you can definitely project that you know what you're talking about without the haughty attitude and personal attacks I respond in kind. I don't do well with disrespectful posts. I try to edit it out, which you for some reason have a problem with.
I think it is better than going on personal vendettas, posting off-topic of your emotional distress about people with ability, because you are envious.So if you want to participate in the debate about Fly, and/or OG, join in. i mean you're still doing it And you are still envious. Not sure why I would change, just because it bothers you.
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you're really bad at recognizing motivation huh
i dont think there's a single aspect of your character that you've shown that i'd ever want for myself
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SoCal8910 Posts
whats your "ability" that tuna is jealous of exactly???
On January 30 2016 01:59 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 01:53 hariooo wrote:
It's on the level of Bulba going apeshit over getting 8th place.
You have players way better than Fly getting shit on after every poor performance but because Fly is likable, him doing well the last few months for the first time in his career means revisionist history of his entire career of how he was always great. I think the revisionist history part of things is dumb. Personally, I found Fly to be a wholly unimpressive player during his time on Fnatic and he never really stood out to me in any way. That said, I think you do have to acknowledge his tremendous growth as a player during the period since Fnatic's disbanding and him joining OG. Fly played visibly better over the course of his stay on coL and by the time he was on OG, you could definitely say that on an individual level, he was a far better DotA 2 player than he was when he was on Fnatic.
anyway, i think yango said it best. on fnatic, Fly was unimpressive and he has grown since then. end of story.
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he's like one of those stereotypical villains who rationalizes the fact that everybody despises him for his personality by calling them jealous
i guess most good fictional tropes are grounded in truth
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On January 30 2016 06:12 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
you're really bad at recognizing motivation huh
i dont think there's a single aspect of your character that you've shown that i'd ever want for myself No one cares about your motivation. You are thus far irrelevant, making off-topic whining, showing you are a hypocrite, doing personal attacks on my person, rather than posting about the content, which is Fly, placements, accomplishments, and why OG is doing good.
I am sure you feel good about doing nothing of importance, which is why you are on this course. I am also certain you feel better if you could do better, but alas... And here the envy comes in.
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On January 30 2016 06:12 BluemoonSC wrote:whats your "ability" that tuna is jealous of exactly??? Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 01:59 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2016 01:53 hariooo wrote:
It's on the level of Bulba going apeshit over getting 8th place.
You have players way better than Fly getting shit on after every poor performance but because Fly is likable, him doing well the last few months for the first time in his career means revisionist history of his entire career of how he was always great. I think the revisionist history part of things is dumb. Personally, I found Fly to be a wholly unimpressive player during his time on Fnatic and he never really stood out to me in any way. That said, I think you do have to acknowledge his tremendous growth as a player during the period since Fnatic's disbanding and him joining OG. Fly played visibly better over the course of his stay on coL and by the time he was on OG, you could definitely say that on an individual level, he was a far better DotA 2 player than he was when he was on Fnatic. anyway, i think yango said it best. on fnatic, Fly was unimpressive and he has grown since then. end of story. The ability to do better than you just did. I mean, "Anyway, I think someone else said it best. End of story". That kind of lacklustre response anyone can make.
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are you implying you've done anything of importance? that's pretty cute
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Wow this discussion sure went places, from Fly to I don't even know what
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On January 30 2016 06:15 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
he's like one of those stereotypical villains who rationalizes the fact that everybody despises him for his personality by calling them jealous
i guess most good fictional tropes are grounded in truth Thus far you have talked about your personal vendetta. Showing your hypocrisy, and now end it with trying to project your villainous ways upon me.
Whereas I was on topic, which is Fly, Moon and OG. You are just wasting space.
"are you implying you've done anything of importance? that's pretty cute". Being ontopic about players is pretty relevant to a thread about teams in a tournament. What you are doing is not advertised anywhere.
Instead of trying to get rid of me for being on-topic, why don't you just feel you should begone till you show you have something to say about the thing of relevance, which is not my person, and how you feel about me. No one cares.
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look, everyone is capable of vomiting their opinions about shit into a thread. my point is that your vomit contains the most vitriol and unnecessary posturing, and you'd find most of your points better received in the future if you worked on that.
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On January 30 2016 06:34 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
look, everyone is capable of vomiting their opinions about shit into a thread. my point is that your vomit contains the most vitriol and unnecessary posturing, and you'd find most of your points better received in the future if you worked on that. You should work on your content before you are displeased with people that do much more and better than you. As it stands you are like this 5 year old kid that jumps up and down, being angry over an essay written by an adult trying to criticize it, through this measure.
Not sure what you read, but most agree with me on this topic. Not you, though, as you are busy talking about how much you dislike me, while you do nothing, but shooting yourself in the foot, and show you are anything you accuse me of, with no endearing traits, such as actually creating a counter-response to the topic, if you disagree.
Trying to teach me about behaviour while you sit in and root in mud, slinging mud, with this the only thing to show for it, is ill advised. I am sure your parents will concur, if you got get them to proof read. Now go get them, so we can end this, and get back on topic.
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On January 30 2016 06:27 Dysisa wrote:
Wow this discussion sure went places, from Fly to I don't even know what
what have i done...
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You have not advertised very well for yourself, so I think I will pass. You do not seem to be the right person to give insights into anything.
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On January 30 2016 07:03 Dracolich70 wrote:You have not advertised very well for yourself, so I think I will pass. You do not seem to be the right person to give insights into anything.
wow you just followed foundational points 0 and 1 to a T, you're a natural! you definitely don't need much work on 3 either
probably need to work on 2 and 4 to complete the transformation to insufferable know-it-all though
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What if you two go to PM's and we can have a normal topic again?
Its like when people get the azarkon bait or Superstratan appears and bash non-chinese. come on people.
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i definitely consciously took care not to instigate shit slinging until the thread was almost dead; i really doubt this is supplanting more on-topic discussion
but yea i'm done anyway gg wp
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Man, people sure do get upset when players they don't like see success.
Sure, baby, it's all miracle carrying four other players. If you say so.
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On January 30 2016 07:03 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 07:03 Dracolich70 wrote:You have not advertised very well for yourself, so I think I will pass. You do not seem to be the right person to give insights into anything. wow you just followed foundational points 0 and 1 to a T, you're a natural! you definitely don't need much work on 3 either probably need to work on 2 and 4 to complete the transformation to insufferable know-it-all though Trying to bait me into reading your thread is not gonna work. I am sure any negative points presented, would be better placed on yourself, as you have shown in this thread.
Now seek attention elsewhere, so we can get back to topic.
" definitely consciously took care not to instigate shit slinging until the thread was almost dead; i really doubt this is supplanting more on-topic discussion". Oh, at least you are admitting shit slinging, trying to educate me about behaviour. Is this the part where you feel your endearing trait is waiting till the end of thread? How about reporting yourself?
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How about you all stop it and take it to PMs rather than shitting up this thread any more than you have already managed to do so. Consider this the only warning on the subject.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On January 30 2016 06:25 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 06:12 BluemoonSC wrote:whats your "ability" that tuna is jealous of exactly??? On January 30 2016 01:59 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2016 01:53 hariooo wrote:
It's on the level of Bulba going apeshit over getting 8th place.
You have players way better than Fly getting shit on after every poor performance but because Fly is likable, him doing well the last few months for the first time in his career means revisionist history of his entire career of how he was always great. I think the revisionist history part of things is dumb. Personally, I found Fly to be a wholly unimpressive player during his time on Fnatic and he never really stood out to me in any way. That said, I think you do have to acknowledge his tremendous growth as a player during the period since Fnatic's disbanding and him joining OG. Fly played visibly better over the course of his stay on coL and by the time he was on OG, you could definitely say that on an individual level, he was a far better DotA 2 player than he was when he was on Fnatic. anyway, i think yango said it best. on fnatic, Fly was unimpressive and he has grown since then. end of story. The ability to do better than you just did. I mean, "Anyway, I think someone else said it best. End of story". That kind of lacklustre response anyone can make.
if i agree with someone and have nothing to add, what's wrong with that?
anyway, where are my recommended games!?
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So much banter in a tourney thread.
Quality stuff guys.
Unfortunately, I fell asleep in the latter part of Ehome vs LGD, but from what I saw they ran a clinic. OG's play was stellar, too. You can really just see that they're a team, not 5 dudes playing dota
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EPT![[image loading]](https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11899894_877934922255380_7350219013966209704_n.jpg?oh=95789fde91c8ebd12ef40b56d7a877e8&oe=573207C1)
