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It will all come to drafting between these 2 teams...can super afford to give secret doom/slardar..i think secret has a slight more chance to win this,but i am going with VG anyway..
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On October 29 2015 18:38 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:33 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:30 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:29 babysimba wrote:
Well i have a theory regarding VG.
VG with Hao didn't really work out after teams figure them out. Teams just overcommitted to defend against VG's aggression because they know Hao is going to join the fight pretty often. With a more passive ricer that occassionally joins fight, it's harder to tell how much resources you need to commit to defend. You tend to get more out of the map that way.
CDEC's aggression is a bit different because they use their highest networth hero to lead the charge, which means fights end more decisively and faster. yea...tho i certainly feel like CDEC's aggression at TI was well calculated than VG's and it eventually paid them. the problem was not black's play with them,but the communication barrier if i am not mistaken..they didn't thought the team whill go further at TI with communication gap Oh My God. Will you seriously fucking stop trying to hate on black. You realize hes still taking Chinese classes and was doing so while on the team. Well the official reason Black got kicked WAS the communication issue. Saying that isn't "hating on" Black, it's stating a fact. Of course, the real reason is that Black was the worst player on the team, but hey. . .
Because press releases are always what is really happening right? right???! Noone would ever fluff up their press releases / public communication to look better to the public amirite?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I don't think Secret have shown me any reason why giving up sladar to them is bad. EE on Doom has also shown me nothing. Giving up Meepo to them as a chinese team for sure seems bad. Misery sladar hasn't looked good to me anyway and same with EEs Doom.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On October 29 2015 18:44 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:38 FuzzyJAM wrote:On October 29 2015 18:33 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:30 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:29 babysimba wrote:
Well i have a theory regarding VG.
VG with Hao didn't really work out after teams figure them out. Teams just overcommitted to defend against VG's aggression because they know Hao is going to join the fight pretty often. With a more passive ricer that occassionally joins fight, it's harder to tell how much resources you need to commit to defend. You tend to get more out of the map that way.
CDEC's aggression is a bit different because they use their highest networth hero to lead the charge, which means fights end more decisively and faster. yea...tho i certainly feel like CDEC's aggression at TI was well calculated than VG's and it eventually paid them. the problem was not black's play with them,but the communication barrier if i am not mistaken..they didn't thought the team whill go further at TI with communication gap Oh My God. Will you seriously fucking stop trying to hate on black. You realize hes still taking Chinese classes and was doing so while on the team. Well the official reason Black got kicked WAS the communication issue. Saying that isn't "hating on" Black, it's stating a fact. Of course, the real reason is that Black was the worst player on the team, but hey. . . Because press releases are always what is really happening right? right???! Noone would ever fluff up their press releases / public communication to look better to the public amirite?
So why did Black get kicked from VG in your opinion? Was he better than them? was he to good for VG as a whole? You are very confusing and seem to attack everything said about Black :s
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On October 29 2015 18:44 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:38 FuzzyJAM wrote:On October 29 2015 18:33 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:30 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:29 babysimba wrote:
Well i have a theory regarding VG.
VG with Hao didn't really work out after teams figure them out. Teams just overcommitted to defend against VG's aggression because they know Hao is going to join the fight pretty often. With a more passive ricer that occassionally joins fight, it's harder to tell how much resources you need to commit to defend. You tend to get more out of the map that way.
CDEC's aggression is a bit different because they use their highest networth hero to lead the charge, which means fights end more decisively and faster. yea...tho i certainly feel like CDEC's aggression at TI was well calculated than VG's and it eventually paid them. the problem was not black's play with them,but the communication barrier if i am not mistaken..they didn't thought the team whill go further at TI with communication gap Oh My God. Will you seriously fucking stop trying to hate on black. You realize hes still taking Chinese classes and was doing so while on the team. Well the official reason Black got kicked WAS the communication issue. Saying that isn't "hating on" Black, it's stating a fact. Of course, the real reason is that Black was the worst player on the team, but hey. . . Because press releases are always what is really happening right? right???! Noone would ever fluff up their press releases / public communication to look better to the public amirite?
What year is it? Why is black and VG still in the same discussion
Who brought this topic up anyways
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On October 29 2015 18:45 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:44 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:38 FuzzyJAM wrote:On October 29 2015 18:33 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:30 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:29 babysimba wrote:
Well i have a theory regarding VG.
VG with Hao didn't really work out after teams figure them out. Teams just overcommitted to defend against VG's aggression because they know Hao is going to join the fight pretty often. With a more passive ricer that occassionally joins fight, it's harder to tell how much resources you need to commit to defend. You tend to get more out of the map that way.
CDEC's aggression is a bit different because they use their highest networth hero to lead the charge, which means fights end more decisively and faster. yea...tho i certainly feel like CDEC's aggression at TI was well calculated than VG's and it eventually paid them. the problem was not black's play with them,but the communication barrier if i am not mistaken..they didn't thought the team whill go further at TI with communication gap Oh My God. Will you seriously fucking stop trying to hate on black. You realize hes still taking Chinese classes and was doing so while on the team. Well the official reason Black got kicked WAS the communication issue. Saying that isn't "hating on" Black, it's stating a fact. Of course, the real reason is that Black was the worst player on the team, but hey. . . Because press releases are always what is really happening right? right???! Noone would ever fluff up their press releases / public communication to look better to the public amirite? So why did Black get kicked from VG in your opinion? Was he better than them? was he to good for VG as a whole? You are very confusing and seem to attack everything said about Black :s
I was not there I really cannot say what really was the reason that they kicked him but saying communications was the issue when he is not only learning their language but only maximally needs to learn a couple of hundred words to cohesively work in the game seems like a load of crap.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On October 29 2015 18:18 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:14 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:12 Pandemona wrote:On October 29 2015 18:07 Kamisamanachi wrote:
them ,as a team are playing good..yesterday's wins was pretty good team work by them .and people still cry about them dropping black? lol ..hw can they not realize black's potential after watching fnatic games? Burning isn't exactly a bad replacement is he u should see yesterday's both games about how he is adapting to the VG instead of VG adapting to him..they were aggressive in as hell in both the games they played yesterday..besides on ember game in this tournament ,his performance has been on point this tournament.his ember and am games especially were pleasure to watch On October 29 2015 18:14 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:12 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:09 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:07 Kamisamanachi wrote:
them ,as a team are playing good..yesterday's wins was pretty good team work by them .and people still cry about them dropping black? lol ..hw can they not realize black's potential after watching fnatic games? uhhh, honestly black played perfectly fine when he was on the team. Did you not watch VG back then?? ... it was because other 4 of VG created the perfect environment for him to shine,even changed their plan to go lategame dota at times..and as much as i don't want to flame fnatic,black was awful in their last few games and i wish ,he gets grip on his form back.. I mean.. I feel like burning is the WEAK point on that team right now. Sure the other 4 are great but black wasn't playing awful. If you try to argue that black was playing bad.. they are straight CARRYING burning right now buddy. what? are u sure u are watching same VG?or just randomly talking in your sleep? We are watching the same games. You seem to have nice rose tinted glasses for burning yet talk shit about black. Its pretty unbelievable tbh. You realize when black joined the team that they dominated for months correct? I do not see VG doing that with Burning atm so..
fwiw VG do look like the best chinese team atm
also VG weren't even the best chinese team until DAC
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Whatever the fuck happens this is the mini grand finals right here.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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On October 29 2015 18:44 Pandemona wrote:
I don't think Secret have shown me any reason why giving up sladar to them is bad. EE on Doom has also shown me nothing. Giving up Meepo to them as a chinese team for sure seems bad. Misery sladar hasn't looked good to me anyway and same with EEs Doom.
Misery Sladar has been pretty effective since they almost always safe lanes him to get an early blink. Think they mainly prefer this hero dire side. Otherwise it's giving up brood which is probably scarier. He had a pretty phenomenal clockwerk play in this tournament.
how much do you think VG or Secret value Alch?
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Why does it show the time of the next match next to both the team logos. As if Secret could possibly face Vici at a different time than Vici will face Secret?
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On October 29 2015 18:48 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:45 Pandemona wrote:On October 29 2015 18:44 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:38 FuzzyJAM wrote:On October 29 2015 18:33 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:30 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:29 babysimba wrote:
Well i have a theory regarding VG.
VG with Hao didn't really work out after teams figure them out. Teams just overcommitted to defend against VG's aggression because they know Hao is going to join the fight pretty often. With a more passive ricer that occassionally joins fight, it's harder to tell how much resources you need to commit to defend. You tend to get more out of the map that way.
CDEC's aggression is a bit different because they use their highest networth hero to lead the charge, which means fights end more decisively and faster. yea...tho i certainly feel like CDEC's aggression at TI was well calculated than VG's and it eventually paid them. the problem was not black's play with them,but the communication barrier if i am not mistaken..they didn't thought the team whill go further at TI with communication gap Oh My God. Will you seriously fucking stop trying to hate on black. You realize hes still taking Chinese classes and was doing so while on the team. Well the official reason Black got kicked WAS the communication issue. Saying that isn't "hating on" Black, it's stating a fact. Of course, the real reason is that Black was the worst player on the team, but hey. . . Because press releases are always what is really happening right? right???! Noone would ever fluff up their press releases / public communication to look better to the public amirite? So why did Black get kicked from VG in your opinion? Was he better than them? was he to good for VG as a whole? You are very confusing and seem to attack everything said about Black :s I was not there I really cannot say what really was the reason that they kicked him but saying communications was the issue when he is not only learning their language but only maximally needs to learn a couple of hundred words to cohesively work in the game seems like a load of crap.
If he's learning the language then he thinks he doesn't know it well enough. QED. There were incidents where Black's lack of Chinese hurt his teams - the famous Urn thing, for one. Just because someone is working to fix a problem doesn't mean there isn't one: actually, if someone is working to fix a problem, that kind of requires that there IS a problem.
The official reason Black got kicked was communication issues. Realistically, that will only have been part of it. Were Black a better player, they probably would have kept him. But it's not hating on Black to bring up communication issues as a reason for the kick, nor is it hating on him to say he's not a particularly good player. Just because you're a fan doesn't mean you have to expect everyone else to be as blind as you. Nice guys aren't inherently the best at Dota.
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On October 29 2015 18:49 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:18 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:14 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:12 Pandemona wrote:On October 29 2015 18:07 Kamisamanachi wrote:
them ,as a team are playing good..yesterday's wins was pretty good team work by them .and people still cry about them dropping black? lol ..hw can they not realize black's potential after watching fnatic games? Burning isn't exactly a bad replacement is he u should see yesterday's both games about how he is adapting to the VG instead of VG adapting to him..they were aggressive in as hell in both the games they played yesterday..besides on ember game in this tournament ,his performance has been on point this tournament.his ember and am games especially were pleasure to watch On October 29 2015 18:14 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:12 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:09 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:07 Kamisamanachi wrote:
them ,as a team are playing good..yesterday's wins was pretty good team work by them .and people still cry about them dropping black? lol ..hw can they not realize black's potential after watching fnatic games? uhhh, honestly black played perfectly fine when he was on the team. Did you not watch VG back then?? ... it was because other 4 of VG created the perfect environment for him to shine,even changed their plan to go lategame dota at times..and as much as i don't want to flame fnatic,black was awful in their last few games and i wish ,he gets grip on his form back.. I mean.. I feel like burning is the WEAK point on that team right now. Sure the other 4 are great but black wasn't playing awful. If you try to argue that black was playing bad.. they are straight CARRYING burning right now buddy. what? are u sure u are watching same VG?or just randomly talking in your sleep? We are watching the same games. You seem to have nice rose tinted glasses for burning yet talk shit about black. Its pretty unbelievable tbh. You realize when black joined the team that they dominated for months correct? I do not see VG doing that with Burning atm so.. fwiw VG do look like the best chinese team atm also VG weren't even the best chinese team until DAC
they won the winter summit though
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I don't think VG is afraid of meepo. Their drafting style this time is very team fight orientated with a late game carry that can still join fights. Less chaotic train dota aggression and more calculated ones. Can fight early, can go late game. Much more stable and very scary
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enough about Black / VG / bromance triangle soap opera story. Go to another thread for that or watch ball fondlers.
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30 minutes of game followed by 50 minutes of replays..
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On October 29 2015 18:54 babysimba wrote:
I don't think VG is afraid of meepo. Their drafting style this time is very team fight orientated with a late game carry that can still join fights. Less chaotic train dota aggression and more calculated ones. Can fight early, can go late game. Much more stable and very scary
Meepo is mainly a really strong hero because he's out of the "meta" and people aren't used to facing him. I think he's situational against teams that know what they're doing against him.
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On October 29 2015 18:48 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:45 Pandemona wrote:On October 29 2015 18:44 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:38 FuzzyJAM wrote:On October 29 2015 18:33 sc14s wrote:On October 29 2015 18:30 Kamisamanachi wrote:On October 29 2015 18:29 babysimba wrote:
Well i have a theory regarding VG.
VG with Hao didn't really work out after teams figure them out. Teams just overcommitted to defend against VG's aggression because they know Hao is going to join the fight pretty often. With a more passive ricer that occassionally joins fight, it's harder to tell how much resources you need to commit to defend. You tend to get more out of the map that way.
CDEC's aggression is a bit different because they use their highest networth hero to lead the charge, which means fights end more decisively and faster. yea...tho i certainly feel like CDEC's aggression at TI was well calculated than VG's and it eventually paid them. the problem was not black's play with them,but the communication barrier if i am not mistaken..they didn't thought the team whill go further at TI with communication gap Oh My God. Will you seriously fucking stop trying to hate on black. You realize hes still taking Chinese classes and was doing so while on the team. Well the official reason Black got kicked WAS the communication issue. Saying that isn't "hating on" Black, it's stating a fact. Of course, the real reason is that Black was the worst player on the team, but hey. . . Because press releases are always what is really happening right? right???! Noone would ever fluff up their press releases / public communication to look better to the public amirite? So why did Black get kicked from VG in your opinion? Was he better than them? was he to good for VG as a whole? You are very confusing and seem to attack everything said about Black :s I was not there I really cannot say what really was the reason that they kicked him but saying communications was the issue when he is not only learning their language but only maximally needs to learn a couple of hundred words to cohesively work in the game seems like a load of crap.
It is not only the words, it is the accent and tone. An example iceiceice gave was 大他 and 打他. Both are pronounced the same as "da ta", but the tone is very different. One is to use an ultimate against the enemy, the latter is to attack the enemy. To a native mandarin speaker, it is very clear what each means when it is spoken. To a learner, they are quite similar.
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On October 29 2015 18:56 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 18:54 babysimba wrote:
I don't think VG is afraid of meepo. Their drafting style this time is very team fight orientated with a late game carry that can still join fights. Less chaotic train dota aggression and more calculated ones. Can fight early, can go late game. Much more stable and very scary Meepo is mainly a really strong hero because he's out of the "meta" and people aren't used to facing him. I think he's situational against teams that know what they're doing against him.
It feels like a very big mistake to pick it versus VG. They will almost certainly have a plan to counter it ready since they have seen what it can do when you are unprepared.
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EPT
