On August 31 2012 05:55 Kupon3ss wrote: 1. Hao's done this before~ 2. poor 4th position Mu
I'm not very familiar with the Chinese number system, but does having a lower number mean that in addition to getting one's farm you also get to fuck his gf?
Yes. 1st position means you have first priority over the farm (generally the hard carry). 5th position is lowest priority for the farm (like a CM or something). Of course this is flexible within the game so while an Earthshaker support may start as 4th or 5th position, they're still going to let him find farm at some point to get a Blink Dagger and the like.
The finer granularity seems really nice as opposed to simply saying someone is support and be finished with that. Most likely top western teams in reality are implicitly prioritizing one support/utility hero over the other, but this explicit priority assignment is much more rigorous and could be helpful for less experienced teams.
EDIT: Yeah, I was joking but thanks for the info nevertheless. I'm really interested to know more about their system.
My understanding of the positions:
1= hard carry, if it was possible to pool all the gold into this position's bank, most teams would want to do so, prime examples include anti-mage, morphling, spectre. These heros will win you the game if you get enough farm on them
2= Ganking carry/midgame carry, farming is still important, they still need items, but the way they get it is through participating in teamfights and ganking. Examples of 2 position heroes are queen of pain and invoker. They need items, but they have a strong enough midgame to leave lanes to gank and and teamfight
3= Offlane solo (usually). They get an entire lane to farm! all for themselves!....except its usually in the suicide lane, basically these heros have good long range damage skills that allows them to get whatever last hits they can get without feeding horribly. They usually need levels but not as much as 1 or 2, in teamfights they are not the main dps, but they are still critical to teamfights with a high level in at least one of their skills. Examples include windrunner, beastmaster, and dark seer. They change fights not by huge dps, but by having high levels in one of their big skills. and they have long range/safe ways to stay in lane.
4= Support (teamfight ult). Now to the poor supports, 4th position means that you are rushing one item (usually blink dagger), a good team will let you have a few waves when you're close, the rest of the money comes from assists. Examples include support earthshaker, support tide. These guys are completely different beasts with and without a blink dagger, they only really need to be level 6 to be gamechanging, and have a decent level 1 skill such that its ok for them to be behind a bit. 4th positions are basically running on boots+branches until they get blink.
5= Support (ward b*tch). The pillar that supports the team, your job is to not die so many times that you are unable to afford wards throughout the game, you have an awesome level 1 skill, and great level 2, your ult is quite useful, but is a luxury rather than an necessity to the teams strategy. Common strategies include staying out of exp range on the 1 position's lane just so he farms safer, acting as a human ward (remember wards don't get money/exp, so you dont either). Your levels comes from the assists, you let the 1 position get the last hits on towers/kills. Etc. Many team captains choose to play the 5th position because of the amount of time they can devote to the overall game, since they take care of wards they pay attention to them, since they die the easiest they are most aware of danger. Examples include crystal maiden, vengeful spirit.
In an ideal game, you would give the 1st position about 50% of the farm (jungle plus a lane plus ancients plus last hit on towers), 2nd position 30% (one lane) 3rd position would get about 15% (one lane, but you miss a lot of creeps), and 4th position gets enough for blink, giving rest to 1st position and 5th gets the salary.
HARD SUPPORT. Its called Hard Fucking Support. Why the hell are people still using such a derogatory term (ward bitch) for such an integral part of the game.
Matches can be won without a carry but no match is won without a HARD SUPPORT. Fuck.
His understanding isn't even entirely correct. The only thing the numbers have to do is farm priority. There's nothing that says a 3 position HAS to be the offlane solo, although it usually is. Also, let's say you're playing Enigma as the 4 and you're 500 gold away from blink dagger. You'd probably turn into the team's 2 for a while just because the team would prioritize your getting a blink dagger instead of the former 2 farming some more. Everyone would just shift down one position until you farm the blink, then you go back down to the 4.
Umm, for some reason I read your post and it seems to be agreeing with everything I wrote, 3 position is usually offlane solo, and blink dagger 4th position is usually given farm when close.... did you read what I wrote or did you just read the first words?
I think the issue he had was with how you labeled the roles. They are exclusively farm priorities, 1's may not be hard carries, you can make a team without hard carries, but if you have two semi-carries, for example, you will still have a 1 and a 2, not two 2's. Plus heroes can often shift between positions, like a hero dropping down after getting a core item. Your post implies they are much more immobile, even if that's not what you are actually saying. It's just not very clear.
On August 31 2012 05:55 Kupon3ss wrote: 1. Hao's done this before~ 2. poor 4th position Mu
I'm not very familiar with the Chinese number system, but does having a lower number mean that in addition to getting one's farm you also get to fuck his gf?
Yes. 1st position means you have first priority over the farm (generally the hard carry). 5th position is lowest priority for the farm (like a CM or something). Of course this is flexible within the game so while an Earthshaker support may start as 4th or 5th position, they're still going to let him find farm at some point to get a Blink Dagger and the like.
The finer granularity seems really nice as opposed to simply saying someone is support and be finished with that. Most likely top western teams in reality are implicitly prioritizing one support/utility hero over the other, but this explicit priority assignment is much more rigorous and could be helpful for less experienced teams.
EDIT: Yeah, I was joking but thanks for the info nevertheless. I'm really interested to know more about their system.
My understanding of the positions:
1= hard carry, if it was possible to pool all the gold into this position's bank, most teams would want to do so, prime examples include anti-mage, morphling, spectre. These heros will win you the game if you get enough farm on them
2= Ganking carry/midgame carry, farming is still important, they still need items, but the way they get it is through participating in teamfights and ganking. Examples of 2 position heroes are queen of pain and invoker. They need items, but they have a strong enough midgame to leave lanes to gank and and teamfight
3= Offlane solo (usually). They get an entire lane to farm! all for themselves!....except its usually in the suicide lane, basically these heros have good long range damage skills that allows them to get whatever last hits they can get without feeding horribly. They usually need levels but not as much as 1 or 2, in teamfights they are not the main dps, but they are still critical to teamfights with a high level in at least one of their skills. Examples include windrunner, beastmaster, and dark seer. They change fights not by huge dps, but by having high levels in one of their big skills. and they have long range/safe ways to stay in lane.
4= Support (teamfight ult). Now to the poor supports, 4th position means that you are rushing one item (usually blink dagger), a good team will let you have a few waves when you're close, the rest of the money comes from assists. Examples include support earthshaker, support tide. These guys are completely different beasts with and without a blink dagger, they only really need to be level 6 to be gamechanging, and have a decent level 1 skill such that its ok for them to be behind a bit. 4th positions are basically running on boots+branches until they get blink.
5= Support (ward b*tch). The pillar that supports the team, your job is to not die so many times that you are unable to afford wards throughout the game, you have an awesome level 1 skill, and great level 2, your ult is quite useful, but is a luxury rather than an necessity to the teams strategy. Common strategies include staying out of exp range on the 1 position's lane just so he farms safer, acting as a human ward (remember wards don't get money/exp, so you dont either). Your levels comes from the assists, you let the 1 position get the last hits on towers/kills. Etc. Many team captains choose to play the 5th position because of the amount of time they can devote to the overall game, since they take care of wards they pay attention to them, since they die the easiest they are most aware of danger. Examples include crystal maiden, vengeful spirit.
In an ideal game, you would give the 1st position about 50% of the farm (jungle plus a lane plus ancients plus last hit on towers), 2nd position 30% (one lane) 3rd position would get about 15% (one lane, but you miss a lot of creeps), and 4th position gets enough for blink, giving rest to 1st position and 5th gets the salary.
HARD SUPPORT. Its called Hard Fucking Support. Why the hell are people still using such a derogatory term (ward bitch) for such an integral part of the game.
Matches can be won without a carry but no match is won without a HARD SUPPORT. Fuck.
His understanding isn't even entirely correct. The only thing the numbers have to do is farm priority. There's nothing that says a 3 position HAS to be the offlane solo, although it usually is. Also, let's say you're playing Enigma as the 4 and you're 500 gold away from blink dagger. You'd probably turn into the team's 2 for a while just because the team would prioritize your getting a blink dagger instead of the former 2 farming some more. Everyone would just shift down one position until you farm the blink, then you go back down to the 4.
Umm, for some reason I read your post and it seems to be agreeing with everything I wrote, 3 position is usually offlane solo, and blink dagger 4th position is usually given farm when close.... did you read what I wrote or did you just read the first words?
I think his point is that the the numbers aren't a direct equivalency to specific roles like hard lane solo, or solo mid, or jungler. The Chinese use specific terms that actually mean hard carry (DPS核心), hard lane solo (劣势路单), solo mid (中单), jungler (野区), etc. The number system is there only to provide a hierarchy of farm priority. Basically they correlate to hero roles, but it's not used in the place of actual hero role terminology. edit: oops, thanks kupon3ss :3
I guess I shouldnt have used = signs, I meant correlation rather than definition. Its my understanding of what hero roles should go to which farm position, nothing set in stone.
On August 31 2012 05:55 Kupon3ss wrote: 1. Hao's done this before~ 2. poor 4th position Mu
I'm not very familiar with the Chinese number system, but does having a lower number mean that in addition to getting one's farm you also get to fuck his gf?
Yes. 1st position means you have first priority over the farm (generally the hard carry). 5th position is lowest priority for the farm (like a CM or something). Of course this is flexible within the game so while an Earthshaker support may start as 4th or 5th position, they're still going to let him find farm at some point to get a Blink Dagger and the like.
The finer granularity seems really nice as opposed to simply saying someone is support and be finished with that. Most likely top western teams in reality are implicitly prioritizing one support/utility hero over the other, but this explicit priority assignment is much more rigorous and could be helpful for less experienced teams.
EDIT: Yeah, I was joking but thanks for the info nevertheless. I'm really interested to know more about their system.
My understanding of the positions:
1= hard carry, if it was possible to pool all the gold into this position's bank, most teams would want to do so, prime examples include anti-mage, morphling, spectre. These heros will win you the game if you get enough farm on them
2= Ganking carry/midgame carry, farming is still important, they still need items, but the way they get it is through participating in teamfights and ganking. Examples of 2 position heroes are queen of pain and invoker. They need items, but they have a strong enough midgame to leave lanes to gank and and teamfight
3= Offlane solo (usually). They get an entire lane to farm! all for themselves!....except its usually in the suicide lane, basically these heros have good long range damage skills that allows them to get whatever last hits they can get without feeding horribly. They usually need levels but not as much as 1 or 2, in teamfights they are not the main dps, but they are still critical to teamfights with a high level in at least one of their skills. Examples include windrunner, beastmaster, and dark seer. They change fights not by huge dps, but by having high levels in one of their big skills. and they have long range/safe ways to stay in lane.
4= Support (teamfight ult). Now to the poor supports, 4th position means that you are rushing one item (usually blink dagger), a good team will let you have a few waves when you're close, the rest of the money comes from assists. Examples include support earthshaker, support tide. These guys are completely different beasts with and without a blink dagger, they only really need to be level 6 to be gamechanging, and have a decent level 1 skill such that its ok for them to be behind a bit. 4th positions are basically running on boots+branches until they get blink.
5= Support (ward b*tch). The pillar that supports the team, your job is to not die so many times that you are unable to afford wards throughout the game, you have an awesome level 1 skill, and great level 2, your ult is quite useful, but is a luxury rather than an necessity to the teams strategy. Common strategies include staying out of exp range on the 1 position's lane just so he farms safer, acting as a human ward (remember wards don't get money/exp, so you dont either). Your levels comes from the assists, you let the 1 position get the last hits on towers/kills. Etc. Many team captains choose to play the 5th position because of the amount of time they can devote to the overall game, since they take care of wards they pay attention to them, since they die the easiest they are most aware of danger. Examples include crystal maiden, vengeful spirit.
In an ideal game, you would give the 1st position about 50% of the farm (jungle plus a lane plus ancients plus last hit on towers), 2nd position 30% (one lane) 3rd position would get about 15% (one lane, but you miss a lot of creeps), and 4th position gets enough for blink, giving rest to 1st position and 5th gets the salary.
HARD SUPPORT. Its called Hard Fucking Support. Why the hell are people still using such a derogatory term (ward bitch) for such an integral part of the game.
Matches can be won without a carry but no match is won without a HARD SUPPORT. Fuck.
His understanding isn't even entirely correct. The only thing the numbers have to do is farm priority. There's nothing that says a 3 position HAS to be the offlane solo, although it usually is. Also, let's say you're playing Enigma as the 4 and you're 500 gold away from blink dagger. You'd probably turn into the team's 2 for a while just because the team would prioritize your getting a blink dagger instead of the former 2 farming some more. Everyone would just shift down one position until you farm the blink, then you go back down to the 4.
Umm, for some reason I read your post and it seems to be agreeing with everything I wrote, 3 position is usually offlane solo, and blink dagger 4th position is usually given farm when close.... did you read what I wrote or did you just read the first words?
I think his point is that the the numbers aren't a direct equivalency to specific roles like hard lane solo, or solo mid, or jungler. The Chinese use specific terms that actually mean hard carry (DPS和心), hard lane solo (劣势路单), solo mid (中单), jungler (野区), etc. The number system is there only to provide a hierarchy of farm priority. Basically they correlate to hero roles, but it's not used in the place of actual hero role terminology.
Yes, that's why there's a joke among various Chinese fans that Zhou sometimes is the 4 position carry because iG is so talented all around ^_^
So how do the pennants actually work? I'm thinking of throwing my support towards coL even though they are not the strongest team. Just hoping for them to show a strong finish. What are the chances of getting in game items with pennant purchases?
Don't buy a pennant to get an item, you'll only be dissapointed. Buy it to support your favourite team and if you get an item from it then that's gravy.
Lumi and LD are a great duo. Slesh continually smacks down eveything Tobi says. It's hard to listen to. The commentary isn't even smooth there are often periods where Slesh analyses something, Tobi repsonds "yeah....." cue awkward silence. It's bad.
On August 31 2012 05:55 Kupon3ss wrote: 1. Hao's done this before~ 2. poor 4th position Mu
I'm not very familiar with the Chinese number system, but does having a lower number mean that in addition to getting one's farm you also get to fuck his gf?
Yes. 1st position means you have first priority over the farm (generally the hard carry). 5th position is lowest priority for the farm (like a CM or something). Of course this is flexible within the game so while an Earthshaker support may start as 4th or 5th position, they're still going to let him find farm at some point to get a Blink Dagger and the like.
The finer granularity seems really nice as opposed to simply saying someone is support and be finished with that. Most likely top western teams in reality are implicitly prioritizing one support/utility hero over the other, but this explicit priority assignment is much more rigorous and could be helpful for less experienced teams.
EDIT: Yeah, I was joking but thanks for the info nevertheless. I'm really interested to know more about their system.
My understanding of the positions:
1= hard carry, if it was possible to pool all the gold into this position's bank, most teams would want to do so, prime examples include anti-mage, morphling, spectre. These heros will win you the game if you get enough farm on them
2= Ganking carry/midgame carry, farming is still important, they still need items, but the way they get it is through participating in teamfights and ganking. Examples of 2 position heroes are queen of pain and invoker. They need items, but they have a strong enough midgame to leave lanes to gank and and teamfight
3= Offlane solo (usually). They get an entire lane to farm! all for themselves!....except its usually in the suicide lane, basically these heros have good long range damage skills that allows them to get whatever last hits they can get without feeding horribly. They usually need levels but not as much as 1 or 2, in teamfights they are not the main dps, but they are still critical to teamfights with a high level in at least one of their skills. Examples include windrunner, beastmaster, and dark seer. They change fights not by huge dps, but by having high levels in one of their big skills. and they have long range/safe ways to stay in lane.
4= Support (teamfight ult). Now to the poor supports, 4th position means that you are rushing one item (usually blink dagger), a good team will let you have a few waves when you're close, the rest of the money comes from assists. Examples include support earthshaker, support tide. These guys are completely different beasts with and without a blink dagger, they only really need to be level 6 to be gamechanging, and have a decent level 1 skill such that its ok for them to be behind a bit. 4th positions are basically running on boots+branches until they get blink.
5= Support (ward b*tch). The pillar that supports the team, your job is to not die so many times that you are unable to afford wards throughout the game, you have an awesome level 1 skill, and great level 2, your ult is quite useful, but is a luxury rather than an necessity to the teams strategy. Common strategies include staying out of exp range on the 1 position's lane just so he farms safer, acting as a human ward (remember wards don't get money/exp, so you dont either). Your levels comes from the assists, you let the 1 position get the last hits on towers/kills. Etc. Many team captains choose to play the 5th position because of the amount of time they can devote to the overall game, since they take care of wards they pay attention to them, since they die the easiest they are most aware of danger. Examples include crystal maiden, vengeful spirit.
In an ideal game, you would give the 1st position about 50% of the farm (jungle plus a lane plus ancients plus last hit on towers), 2nd position 30% (one lane) 3rd position would get about 15% (one lane, but you miss a lot of creeps), and 4th position gets enough for blink, giving rest to 1st position and 5th gets the salary.
HARD SUPPORT. Its called Hard Fucking Support. Why the hell are people still using such a derogatory term (ward bitch) for such an integral part of the game.
Matches can be won without a carry but no match is won without a HARD SUPPORT. Fuck.
His understanding isn't even entirely correct. The only thing the numbers have to do is farm priority. There's nothing that says a 3 position HAS to be the offlane solo, although it usually is. Also, let's say you're playing Enigma as the 4 and you're 500 gold away from blink dagger. You'd probably turn into the team's 2 for a while just because the team would prioritize your getting a blink dagger instead of the former 2 farming some more. Everyone would just shift down one position until you farm the blink, then you go back down to the 4.
Umm, for some reason I read your post and it seems to be agreeing with everything I wrote, 3 position is usually offlane solo, and blink dagger 4th position is usually given farm when close.... did you read what I wrote or did you just read the first words?
I think his point is that the the numbers aren't a direct equivalency to specific roles like hard lane solo, or solo mid, or jungler. The Chinese use specific terms that actually mean hard carry (DPS和心), hard lane solo (劣势路单), solo mid (中单), jungler (野区), etc. The number system is there only to provide a hierarchy of farm priority. Basically they correlate to hero roles, but it's not used in the place of actual hero role terminology.
核心~，what lanes a hero go is distinct from hero roles, its also more useful as a marker of team farm distribution
On August 31 2012 12:53 ShadeR wrote: Lumi and LD are a great duo. Slesh continually smacks down eveything Tobi says. It's hard to listen to. The commentary isn't even smooth there are often periods where Slesh analyses something, Tobi repsonds "yeah....." cue awkward silence. It's bad.
Yeah i really like them, both really dedicated casters :D
I enjoy Lumi and LD but I find that Lumi makes balance complaints every now and then which really irk me. 'Please Icefrog, if you're watching this, fix this rubbish' or something like that. Just not needed at all.
edit: Must admit I haven't heard any of this balance whine during TI2 commentaries though which is a plus!
On August 31 2012 16:44 Shikyo wrote: Prediction time, right?
China #1
China #2
China #3
Funny seeing the ingame pennant(wtf are those) votes, the majority of people are very very misinformed.
i think you don't understand the pennants. They aren't "votes" rather they are a way to support your favorite team. The numbers are just the amount of people supporting the team, not voting for who is going to win.
EPT
