EPTAlienware Cup - Page 8
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
When the 2nd group starts with NaVi playing, I'm pretty certain BTS views will jump. Because NaVi and Alliance brings in the numbers. | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
On June 18 2013 07:01 Tunga wrote: Any recommended games yet? I've skimmed through a few matches and the line-ups didnt seem too interesting. Hope I'm wrong because this is our last glimpse of asian dota until the silence before TI3. This is not the last. And any DK matches are recommended, at least for me  | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On June 18 2013 06:18 ForTehDarkseid wrote: The problem with your logic is that regular Starladder matches without NaVi / Alliance often gather more viewers than BTS streams. Same with Tobi casting scoring over D2L. The argument about caster's charisma doesn't apply, so it leaves us with the most logical conclusion that people are tend to watch and rate for their regional teams, no matter how good they are compared to others. I don't understand why you do think this is the representation of minority's interests, when it happens all the time in every possible competetion in the world. I have never seen LoL OGN stream beating LCS in numbers, and in SC2 case Korea dominates so much, that you are bound to see them everywhere, they are not islolated as Asia in Dota 2 case. On top of that, the difference between them and Westerns is execution, not playstyle (same may or not be applied to LoL, i dunno). The situation with SEA scene is different from viewers indifference- they have internal infrastructure issues. BTS is at a crappy time for both NA and EU viewers; where equivalent schedules are involved, you won't see random Western teams in online cups / group stage matches bring in a greater quantity of viewers than matches between top Chinese teams. I said above that plenty of people watch only their own region's tournaments, but in the case of one region being obviously better, then interregional viewers do come. In LoL and SC 2, plenty of people in the West watch GSL and OGN because they think they get the best players and thus the best games from those tournaments. Esports isn't very different from physical sports in what draws in the viewers. Just about everybody who loves basketball watches NBA because that's where the best play. But then you have regional leagues which attract people from those regions, but little attention elsewhere. To say that being the best has no effect on viewer count is inane. Everybody tunes in to watch Alliance these days, while back when they were struggling, that was not the case. A couple of teams / players are able to get away with having better personalities, but at the end of the day, results in the pro scene matter. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On June 18 2013 06:18 ForTehDarkseid wrote: If iG played in the Defense, they would get more viewers than every western team except for Na'Vi.The problem with your logic is that regular Starladder matches without NaVi / Alliance often gather more viewers than BTS streams. Same with Tobi casting scoring over D2L. The argument about caster's charisma doesn't apply, so it leaves us with the most logical conclusion that people are tend to watch and rate for their regional teams, no matter how good they are compared to others. I don't understand why you do think this is the representation of minority's interests, when it happens all the time in every possible competetion in the world. I have never seen LoL OGN stream beating LCS in numbers, and in SC2 case Korea dominates so much, that you are bound to see them everywhere, they are not islolated as Asia in Dota 2 case. On top of that, the difference between them and Westerns is execution, not playstyle (same may or not be applied to LoL, i dunno). The situation with SEA scene is different from viewers indifference- they have internal infrastructure issues. It's about time zones. | ||
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DarkReign_
1250 Posts
On June 18 2013 21:19 Azarkon wrote: BTS is at an awkward time for both NA and EU viewers; where equivalent schedules are involved, you won't see random Western teams in online cups / group stage matches bring in a greater quantity of viewers than matches between top Chinese teams. I said above that plenty of people watch only their own region's tournaments, but in the case of one region being obviously better, then interregional viewers do come. In LoL and SC 2, plenty of people in the West watch GSL and OGN because they think they get the best players and thus the best games from those tournaments. Esports isn't very different from physical sports in what draws in the viewers. Just about everybody who loves basketball watches NBA because that's where the best play. But then you have regional leagues which attract people from those regions, but little attention elsewhere. To say that being the best has no effect on viewer count is inane. Everybody tunes in to watch Alliance these days, while back when they were struggling, that was not the case. A couple of teams / players are able to get away with having better personalities, but at the end of the day, results in the pro scene matter. Do you factor the chinese viewers? I doubt you follow any chinese streams.Chinese viewers alone>western viewers consistently and the game is not even open beta yet for the chinese scene. So I don't get the point of all this ''Chinese teams no longer being the best and fans are going to go back to watch Western scene'' tantrum. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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LDdota
United States1465 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
I can't make the same statement about SC2 because its been far too long since I followed it. But as far as LoL goes, I don't see more inter-region viewership favoring Korea more than it favors China in DotA. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
Very happy to see DK vs LGD, probably more interesting than possible dreamhack games other than Alliance vs good Navi. Game 2 was 75% over when DK's solo core (kunkka doesn't count, can't occupy a lane the way a dk or weaver can) over estimated their chen gank against the offensive trilane. If they had an enchantress, or if they had done it in the first minute and a half, maybe it works. But they lost time because they (had to) rotate to avoid certain mismatches. Game 1 was interesting. LGD ended up having two ganking supports, which did ok and could have done much better if they hadn't smoke ganked middle at the exact same time as DK smoked ganked middle. They traded tier 1 offlanes, which is fine. But then LGD couldn't break an alchemist defended mid tower, and DK can jungle with DS/chen. DK blocked the gyro stack after a certain time, and LGD couldn't kill mid, couldn't kill weaver, so the farm built up. Weaver eventually bottled a dd and came out on top of a bloody 5v5 teamfight mid, got mid tower, soon after bkb, and there was no way to pick off a bkb weaver and bkb lothars alch. I'm thinking that Sand King pickups are due to having a longer stun duration (than rubick), which is necessary vs weavers. SD and clock are pretty bad against weaver. Back in the mag era, a weaver would not be nearly the same problem. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Azarkon asserted that Chinese DotA is not drawing foreign viewership as much as Korean LoL and SC2 because they are no longer the best. I can't speak to SC2, but Chinese DotA isn't drawing foreign viewership any less than Korean LoL is. 30-40k viewers watching Alienware vs. 80-120k watching Dreamhack is a similar percentage of viewers compared to 80-90k viewers watching OGN LoL vs. 200-300k watching LCS. In both cases the Western tournament gets about 3x the Western viewership of the Eastern one. When you account for the fact that DH is a joint NA/EU event (and therefore is getting the combined viewership of both regions) while the respective LCS tournaments are NA-only and EU-only, and that BTS has spread out viewership across round-the-clock restreams, the percentage of Western viewers watching Chinese DotA is actually probably higher than the percentage of Western viewers watching Korean LoL. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:37 TheYango wrote: Yeah I read more of the thread and realized that, removed the comment before you replied.Well, that's not really the point I was trying to make. | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:24 LDdota wrote: I know most of y'all were probably busy watching Dreamhack, but be sure to tune in now if you want to catch up on the first two days of Alienware Cup group stage play! Our rebroadcast is well under way now at http://twitch.tv/beyondthesummit Hi LD. Will there be VODs on youtube, or just Twitch rebroadcast ? | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On June 18 2013 21:19 Azarkon wrote: BTS is at a crappy time for both NA and EU viewers; The majority of Starladder's audience is from CIS. Maybe it wasn't the best example, because BTS is not casted in Russian, but if you bring an undoubtfully superior Korean scene to confirm your theory, it shouldn't be the deciding factor. Hell, even with G and G-1 League Starladder coverage, have the mean numbers of the regular games (without LGD.int and the first season of G-1) scored more than 20k? where equivalent schedules are involved, you won't see random Western teams in online cups / group stage matches bring in a greater quantity of viewers than matches between top Chinese teams. Your argument was about better teams, not about teams from different regions. I don't recall Defense Group stages having less viewers while running at the same time with D2L which agruably has better quality of play. Esports isn't very different from physical sports in what draws in the viewers. Chinese are owning the world in water jumping and artistic gymnastics judging from Olympic resluts, for example. Why I haven't ever even heard about broadcasts from their domestic tournaments then, not stating them gathering more viewers than the international events? | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Something like gymnastics, track and field. Except for the super hardcore fans the general public only follow their own nation. Something like football, people will watch their local teams, and they will also watch the premier league without being hardcore fans. Something like mma, people will watch the best or the biggest names, regardless of where they are from. | ||
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LDdota
United States1465 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:50 vndestiny wrote: Hi LD. Will there be VODs on youtube, or just Twitch rebroadcast ? Youtube VODs are on the Alienware Cup channel, you can find them here: http://www.youtube.com/user/AlienwareCup. We haven't said anything because the organizer wants to make a proper announcement, but since you asked, you get first dibs! | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
<3 | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:15 TheYango wrote: Azarkon, you're overstating the Western viewership of OGN LoL. The numbers look impressive because the viewership in LoL is astronomically high in general, but relative to NA and EU LCS, OGN viewer numbers are quite low. 80k Twitch viewers sounds like a lot to us, but it's still absolutely crushed by the 200-300k viewers that LCS gets. That's also not including the fact that BTS does round-the-clock restreams so it's more likely that Western viewership will be spread out over the following day, while the lack of OGN restreams is more likely to compel people to watch it live. I can't make the same statement about SC2 because its been far too long since I followed it. But as far as LoL goes, I don't see more inter-region viewership favoring Korea more than it favors China in DotA. LoL was / is still a bit up in the air, however. While there are a lot of people who see the gradual takeover of Korean teams in that game, their reputation is not secure. Till the All Stars game, it was still believed that Korea was just another high skill region, and not the best in the world. Even so, because of OGN's reputation from other games and the community belief that Korea produces the highest skilled gamers no matter the game, they were able to attract a greater quantity of viewers than other Asian regions. But of course, for my argument Starcraft is a better example. There, regional skill difference is obvious, and viewership ratios are stable. Korean Starcraft draws a quantity of Western viewers that is, from what I've seen, around 1/3rd-1/4th of EU WCS, and about 80-90% of NA WCS. Of course, it remains the case that Western tournaments get the highest amount of Western viewership on average, but that simply shows regional viewers trump skill viewers, no matter how loud the latter group is. IMO, for a scene outside of the West to succeed in the West for viewership, it has two routes - one, to be obviously better than the West in skill; two, to involve Western teams. The latter works better than the former, but also incurs greater expense. | ||
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