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Background
I decided to make a personal tier list to make it easier to pick during pubs, realized after I got done with the roles I play that it wouldn't be hard to make it for the ones I didn't and release it into the wild. I used dotabuff's data to base it off of : https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta
Methodology
I used the 4-5k range as the base for it, as it's my own personal MMR, but I added a number in () after if their tier significantly changed at 5k+. So if they have a (4) after their name, their winrate is below 50% in 5k+ bracket, for instance. The tiers don't change greatly for the 3-4k range, but they start to differ more at 3k and below, so keep that in mind. If a hero is commonly played in two roles, like clock for support/offlane then I listed them in both places, but some I had to guess on like Dark Willow.
Tier rules :
Initial tiers are at 4-5K mmr meta. The numbers in parenthesis are for their tier at 5k+
S is 55%+, Tier 1 is 54.99-53%+, Tier 2 is 52.99-51%, Tier 3 is 50-51%. Tier 4 is 49%-49.99%. Tier 5 is below that. (Very few tier4/5 are listed unless they are significantly higher/lower in one of the brackets).
March 2018 :
Support :
Tier 1:
ET
BH
Venge (2)
Dark Willow
Night Stalker (2)
Tier 2
Clockwerk (1)
Shadow Shaman (3)
Chen
Bane (1)
Lich (4)
Skywrath(4)
Spirit Breaker(4)
Treant (1)
Nyx(2)
AA (4)
Tier 3:
Undying
Silencer
Jakiro
Enchantress (2)
Ogre
Pudge (4)
CM
WD
WL(5)
Notable Tier 4 + Lower
IO (3)
Rubick(3)
Offlane :
Tier 1:
Underlord(3)
Brew (3)
Abbadon (2)
Tier 2:
Doom
Enigma (1)
Omni
FV
Tier 3:
Beastmaster
Centaur (5)
Nyx (2)
Enchantress (2)
Bristle (5)
TideHunter (4)
Carry/Mid :
Tier S:
Lycan
Visage
Huskar
CK(1)
Tier 1:
Zeus (2)
Clinkz
Tier 2:
WK (3)
Drow (3)
Spectre (3)
Viper (3)
OD
Juggernaut (4)
Tier 3:
PL
TB
LS
DK
Invoker
Arc Warden
Sniper (4)
Notable Tier 4 and below
Storm (3)
DP (2)
Tinker
Leshrac (3)
Febuary 2018:
+ Show Spoiler +
Supports
Tier 1 (53%+)
Venge (tier 2 at 5k+)
Bounty Hunter (S)
Dark willow (S)
Night Stalker (3)
Clock (2)
Shadow Shaman (2)
Tier 2 (51-53%)
ET
lich (4)
Undying (4)
Spirit Breaker (3)
Bane (1)
Silencer
Nyx
Pudge (4)
Sky (4)
Jakiro (3)
Chen (S)
Enchantress (1)
AA (4)
CM
Tree (1)
Tier 3 (50-51%)
WD (4)
Ogre(4)
WL
-------
Offlaners :
Tier 1
Omni
Underlord (tier 3 at 5k+)
Brew
Clock
Centaur (3)
Tier 2
ET
DK
Abba (4)
Enigma (1)
SB (3)
Nyx
Tide (4)
Doom
Enchantress (1)
Faceless Void
Beastmaster
Tier 3 :
Brood (2)
-------
Core(Mid/Carry)
Tier S - 56%+ winrate at 4k and above.
Lycan
Visage
Huskar
Tier 1:
Chaos Knight
Zeus (tier 3 at 5k+)
Clinkz
Wraith King (3)
Tier 2
Spectre (5)
DK
TB (1)
OD
Drow
Viper
Tinker
Tier 3
Jugg (4)
PL (4)
Luna (4)
Sven (4)
Lifestealer (2)
DP (1)
Tier 4 (only listed for carries, since several of them increase in winrate at higher mmr)
Storm (3)
QoP (3)
Naga (3)
Invoker
Razor (3)
Other notable heroes
This leaves 3 support heroes and 1 core (usually) with a 50%+ winrate in 5k unlisted because their winrates are dismal before that.
Basically these are tier 4 (or lower for Io) that may still be worth playing if you are skilled with them, but consider that your teammates may not be used to playing with them.
Support :
Oracle(51.32%), Rubick (50.62%), Io (51.81%).
Core:
Leshrac(53.47%)
Notable changes from last month :
Paranthesis represent 5k+ tier changes
Offlaners :
Abba 2(4) -> 1(2)
Brew (1)->(3)
Omni 1->3
Centaur from 1(3) -> 3(5)
Enchantress (1) -> (2)
Brood (2) -> (4)
Bristle, Tide new entrants >50% winrate
Support :
ET 2 -> 1
BH (S) - > (1)
DW (S) -> (1)
Clock 1(2) -> 2(1)
Chen 2(S) -> 2
Core/MID:
CK 1 -> S(1)
WK 2(3) -> 1(3)
Spectre 2(5) -> 2(3)
DK 2 ->3
TB 2(1) -> 3
Tinker 2 -> 4
Luna 3 - > 4
Sven 3 -> 4
DP 3(1) -> 4(2)
Razor 4(3) -> 5
New entrants >50% winrate : Invoker, Arc Warden, Sniper (4)
Biggest losers :
Beastmaster, Tinker, Razor, Centaur, Omni
Closing
Hopefully someone else finds this useful. Basically, when I see the AP screen I sometimes just randomly click on a hero because my brain can't easily sort through all 100+ picks easily, so this is a list to make it easier for me to decide what the best options are for each role.
Of course, player skill on the hero is the greatest determining factor : if you aren't at least passable on a hero, it doesn't matter if it's got a 59% winrate. But if you are dedicated to a specific role, you probably do want to know how to play at least a few of the more meta heroes. And if you're the best player in the world on a hero, you can make it work anyways. This is just a guideline, supplement it with personal experience.
Also, if you aren't trying to raise your mmr ... just play whatever you like! It's a game, have fun.
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That's definitely helpful, thank you for sharing.
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WD is the hypest support tho...
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On February 23 2018 09:34 Nevuk wrote:
Core(Mid/Carry)
Tier S - 56%+ winrate at 4k and above.
Huskar
...are you shitting me? The hero with like 40 counters is actually winning games?
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He chucks purple sparkles and his ult is a dance, that should bring WD up a few tiers imo.
On a more serious note - stats are cool and useful, so thanks for them. This got me wondering which heroes are more affected by pick order than others. Obviously, a first pick PA gives your opponents a chance to pick well against you, but what about heroes like Juggernaut that are more or less stable against all opponents? Do they have a substantial difference between being picked early on or later? I'd imagine they don't, but that's why it would be interesting to see the stats on some heroes and how justified people in AP are asking for last pick.
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On February 24 2018 11:45 M.S.Bismarck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2018 09:34 Nevuk wrote:
Core(Mid/Carry)
Tier S - 56%+ winrate at 4k and above.
Huskar
...are you shitting me? The hero with like 40 counters is actually winning games?
Yep. I know, it shocked me too. There's one of two things going on here : Either A) he's only being picked in appropriate situations at high MMR, or B)he is stronger when played by good players. I think most would assume it's purely option A, but the difference is smaller for Brood than it is for Huskar. Brood goes from 46% winrate at 2k to 51% winrate at 5K, while Huskar goes from 48.93 at 2k to 56.74 at 5k. My guess is it's a combination of both things. His pickrate of 6.96% and 5.99% is probably a bit more common than him being only played in perfect situations, and some of his more classic counters are kinda weak, while heroes that aren't great vs him are picked every game (Tinker/SF). Silver edge being nerfed also helps him
(I'm just ignoring <2k as it's basically meaningless, but it doesn't change any arguments).
Also, for what it's worth, he's like S- . His winrate is 56.76% at 4k and 56.74% at 5k, while Visage/Lycan are both well above 58% in 5k and 57% in 4k.
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On February 24 2018 12:16 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2018 11:45 M.S.Bismarck wrote:On February 23 2018 09:34 Nevuk wrote:
Core(Mid/Carry)
Tier S - 56%+ winrate at 4k and above.
Huskar
...are you shitting me? The hero with like 40 counters is actually winning games? Yep. I know, it shocked me too. There's one of two things going on here : Either A) he's only being picked in appropriate situations at high MMR, or B)he is stronger when played by good players. I think most would assume it's purely option A, but the difference is smaller for Brood than it is for Huskar. Brood goes from 46% winrate at 2k to 51% winrate at 5K, while Huskar goes from 48.93 at 2k to 56.74 at 5k. My guess is it's a combination of both things. His pickrate of 6.96% and 5.99% is probably a bit more common than him being only played in perfect situations, and some of his more classic counters are kinda weak, while heroes that aren't great vs him are picked every game (Tinker/SF). Silver Edge no longer having break also means that he isn't easily countered every game by an item some cores like anyways. (I'm just ignoring <2k as it's basically meaningless, but it doesn't change any arguments). Also, for what it's worth, he's like S- . His winrate is 56.76% at 4k and 56.74% at 5k, while Visage/Lycan are both well above 58% in 5k and 57% in 4k.
Did I miss something? When did silver edge lose break? Whats the point of it then?
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On February 24 2018 13:45 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2018 12:16 Nevuk wrote:On February 24 2018 11:45 M.S.Bismarck wrote:On February 23 2018 09:34 Nevuk wrote:
Core(Mid/Carry)
Tier S - 56%+ winrate at 4k and above.
Huskar
...are you shitting me? The hero with like 40 counters is actually winning games? Yep. I know, it shocked me too. There's one of two things going on here : Either A) he's only being picked in appropriate situations at high MMR, or B)he is stronger when played by good players. I think most would assume it's purely option A, but the difference is smaller for Brood than it is for Huskar. Brood goes from 46% winrate at 2k to 51% winrate at 5K, while Huskar goes from 48.93 at 2k to 56.74 at 5k. My guess is it's a combination of both things. His pickrate of 6.96% and 5.99% is probably a bit more common than him being only played in perfect situations, and some of his more classic counters are kinda weak, while heroes that aren't great vs him are picked every game (Tinker/SF). Silver Edge no longer having break also means that he isn't easily countered every game by an item some cores like anyways. (I'm just ignoring <2k as it's basically meaningless, but it doesn't change any arguments). Also, for what it's worth, he's like S- . His winrate is 56.76% at 4k and 56.74% at 5k, while Visage/Lycan are both well above 58% in 5k and 57% in 4k. Did I miss something? When did silver edge lose break? Whats the point of it then?
I'm an idiot. It didn't lose break, it lost the 50% damage reduction
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Ahhh that makes more sense. I was freaking out, thought I was retarded for getting it against bristle in a couple prior games.
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I think Huskar benefits a disproportionately large amount from skilled support play and, just as important, trusting the support player. One perfectly timed cast of one support spell often makes the difference between Huskar getting popped after one kill and Huskar collecting an easy triple kill. And a decent Huskar probably wouldn't even go for it with a 4k mmr support.
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On February 27 2018 16:00 Buckyman wrote:
I think Huskar benefits a disproportionately large amount from skilled support play and, just as important, trusting the support player. One perfectly timed cast of one support spell often makes the difference between Huskar getting popped after one kill and Huskar collecting an easy triple kill. And a decent Huskar probably wouldn't even go for it with a 4k mmr support.
Agreed. When you consider this alongside the fact that some of the better supports to pair with him, such and Oracle and Io, are a bit more complicated to play than an average support, it isn't as surprising.
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As someone who randoms a lot and so gets huskar on occasion I can say that I've seen both, teams massively underestimating the hero as well as teams investing way too many picks to shut him down.
Huskar is one of those picks that either get ignored completely because ppl think it's trash ("we've got a wd, we are fine") and then has an easy game, or I'm playing against a bunch of ppl who lost to him and draft like 4 counters, I ping off and we get a safelane tb or a mid necro or timber who just trashes the game against 5 physical picks.
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On February 24 2018 11:45 M.S.Bismarck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2018 09:34 Nevuk wrote:
Core(Mid/Carry)
Tier S - 56%+ winrate at 4k and above.
Huskar
...are you shitting me? The hero with like 40 counters is actually winning games?
Feels like 50% of huskar picks is a duo picking orcale+huskar, and huskar usually rather late in the "drafts". Killing huskar+orcale takes som coordination which can be lacking even in even in higher MMR. Then the hero gets quite a number of free wins from just being picked last. The higher you get in MMR the more free wins by pick, the lower you get free wins by people trying to kill a huskar with oracle behind him i would say  .
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Clock is t1? I guess it's time to come back to DotA and smash
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It's been roughly a month so I'm gonna update the list. Since we're on a two week patch schedule I'll probably update every month or so instead of going by patches. Check OP for the full new tier list, here's some notable changes :
Notable changes from last month :
(Paranthesis represent 5k+ tier changes)
Offlaners :
Abba 2(4) -> 1(2)
Brew (1)->(3)
Omni 1->3
Centaur from 1(3) -> 3(5)
Enchantress (1) -> (2)
Brood (2) -> (4)
Bristle, Tide new entrants with >50% winrate
Support :
ET 2 -> 1
BH (S) - > (1)
DW (S) -> (1)
Clock 1(2) -> 2(1)
Chen 2(S) -> 2
Core/MID:
CK 1 -> S(1)
WK 2(3) -> 1(3)
Spectre 2(5) -> 2(3)
DK 2 ->3
TB 2(1) -> 3
Tinker 2 -> 4
Luna 3 - > 4
Sven 3 -> 4
DP 3(1) -> 4(2)
Razor 4(3) -> 5
New entrants >50% winrate : Invoker, Arc Warden, Sniper (4)
Biggest losers :
Beastmaster, Tinker, Razor, Centaur, Omni
Analysis :
Lycan and Visage remain king of the high MMR pubs with 59% and 58% winrates respectively at 5K+, and close to it at 4-5k bracket. Huskar remains in the same 55%, 56% winrate place as before. CK has edged up a little bit in winrate to join them at 55% winrate+ tier. Dark Willow and BH have left the S tier at 5k+, likely due to people getting used to playing against them. Same probably goes for Chen and Brood (who has been picked a few times in pro games) as to why they fell at 5k+.
The buyback and assist gold changes may explain spectre's bump in winrate, though Abba's is more inscrutable.
Heroes that were specifically nerfed have definitely fallen in their tiers, and highly popular pro picks can have their winrates fall in general - Razor, for example.
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I skipped doing this last month because there were a ton of hero balance changes that had only been in place for a week. Big changes to the placements now that they've had time to settle in.
Basic format:
S is 55%+, Tier 1 is 54.99-53%+, Tier 2 is 52.99-51%, Tier 3 is 50-51%. Tier 4 is 49%-49.99%. Tier 5 is below that. (Very few tier4/5 are listed unless they are significantly higher/lower in one of the brackets).
For the heroes with extremely high winrate, I've given the Ancient/Divine WR in ( ) after them. This only applies to some Core S heroes. (I stopped at 50.5% this time)
Carry/Mid
Tier S
Zeus (59.5, 55.7)
Spectre (58.4, 60.9)
Visage (57.3, 56.3)
Lycan (56.4, 60.8)
PL
Drow (2)
Chaos Knight (1)
Bloodseeker (1)
Tier 1
Clinkz (S)
Tier 2
WK (3)
FV
Luna
Slark (3)
Huskar (1)
WR
DK
Tier 3
Arc Warden
Ember (4)
Meepo (1)
Offlane
Tier S
Axe
Tier 1
Underlord (3)
Abbadon
Tier 2
Centaur
Brew
Doom
FV
Phoenix
Brood (S)
Tide (5)
Dark Seer (4)
Support
Tier 1
Clockwerk
ET
Undying
Venge
NS (S)
Tier 2
Warlock (1)
CM
SB
Io (S)
Phoenix
Tree (S)
AA (4)
Silencer
Shadow Shaman (4)
Pudge (4)
Bane (1)
Tier 3
BH
Chen
Lich
Nyx
Jakiro (4)
Ogre (4)
Riki (4)
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Thanks for update for may.
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Interesting how the differences in tiers are so big. Two S tier supports in Divine are tier 2 below.
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EPT
