EPT
How to make drums and diffusal better items
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bdonballer
United States408 Posts
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
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Archeon
3265 Posts
I think if they'd reduce the max charge amount to three on diffu f.e. that could work though. I think a big problem of diffu is that you can just use 4-5 charges in a single fight and have massive impact with it. It especially ruins omni. If they'd cap it on 3 with recharge that interaction would be a lot less extreme. Since drums is a staple pretty much on bat atm only I think that they could just put robe of the magi instead of RoR back in, reduce recipe cost to 550 and maybe we'd see people rebuying the charges. 700 is just too expensive. | ||
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
even the drums we have now is still good on some heroes. just not on anyone now. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
the goofy part is that it would be used later into the laning phase and even later into the midgame there was no detriment to blowing charges early. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 23 2016 19:36 trinxified wrote: drums active were never really a strong part of the item before, it was the cost effectiveness of it. even the drums we have now is still good on some heroes. just not on anyone now. No. Real reason for drums is the active. Otherwise you could get those stats elsewhere at a cheaper price. MS was a really big deal then, but not so much now since you have dragon lance for ranged and echo for melee. Anyway no need for buffs. Old diffusual was criminally underused before the changes anyway. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On July 24 2016 10:54 DucK- wrote: No. Real reason for drums is the active. Otherwise you could get those stats elsewhere at a cheaper price. MS was a really big deal then, but not so much now since you have dragon lance for ranged and echo for melee. Anyway no need for buffs. Old diffusual was criminally underused before the changes anyway. He said "before" when it was a cheap +9 all stats +3 dmg + MS + AS, you did not care of the active that much back then, 8+ drums every game. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
I think Icefrog removed the ability to recharge the items by buying an additional recipe to emphasize those two uses. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
drum is an early/mid game items and thus, after using up all the charges, it's also time to sell it for end game items i don't feel the need to change anything | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Rebuying recipe is the obvious solution. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
now there is this dynamic of omniknight being strong before diffusal, then weak during diffusal, then strong again before new diffusals can be picked up. Allowing recipe to refresh charge is basically a 800 gold investment to completely nullify a hero after the first diffusal is built. edit: 700 gold | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Diffusal is super strong, nobody is denying that. I just think removing charge rebuy was an annoying and anti-qol nerf. If we're discussing changes then bringing back rebuy alongside some other nerf is the clear frontrunner. Omni is not a significant factor because the hero's design is problematic to begin with. He's still irrelevant even with diffusal the way it is now, yet has been a top5 winrate pub hero for several years running. He's not working, and if that's something you care about then it's strange to change the general case item over the specific interaction. | ||
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neozxa
Indonesia545 Posts
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Jisira
470 Posts
However, using 3 charges to chase in a fight is a 723 gold investment - only very situational. These charges have a one-time price of 3150 gold (first charges, ~394 gold per charge) and 700 gold (second round of charges, ~88 gold per charge). Potentially changing the outcome (drastically) of 16 skirmishes/fights for an average of ~241 gold per fight is pretty decent. Even at ~394 gold you're looking at a very high value for this charge. Actually, even looking at 3150 gold it might still be pretty value for that one fight. It also includes 35 agility. The Agility cost of an Eaglesong is 18 gold per agility higher. It is the only item under the cost of 4700 with 35 or more agility. Additionally, it includes 15 intellect as secondary perk. Echo Sabre is in comparable range both for cost and stat gain. Increasing the efficacy of this item seems like it would make it too powerful in many ways as it is now reasonably re-purchased after the use of the 16 charges at a cost of 50% of the item if you sell the old one. | ||
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