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Okay, I need input from high MMR brood players, here, which hero do you think counters Brood harder in lane?
As someone that played brood a lot, and I have been told, that Sand King is a much harder counter than Axe is
1) First off, SandStorm makes spiderlings almost impossible to get any kill potential on SK, and it kills Spiderlings really really fast
2) Creep skipping does not work as well, because SK can easily depush with higher levels of SandStorm
3) Sand King is a hero that does much better with farm than brood does, and can easily 1v1 a brood.
4) You can Q nuke Sand King out of the lane with sentries, but SK likewise can easily deward just as easily after pushing out the lanes with SS
5) Sand King's solo kill potential is much higher on brood, especially in earlier levels, where a burrow strike into Epic centre usually means a dead brood.
6) There is usually no good way for brood to kill a SK solo 1v1 if the SK plays it right
Heres why I think Axe, is not as strong in lane vs brood as SK is
1) Creep skipping works against axe to a certain extent.
2) spiderlings to creep skip then deal with axe via nukes is pretty valid, and you can easily nuke him out of lane
3) You have some form of killing potential against Axe, if you manage to trade hits with him using her ultimate after a missed call, and there are no creeps nearby.
So what do you guys think?
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Overall, I just feel that a SK gets a lot more out of the lane than Axe does, and it requires a lot more investment in terms of resources on the brood's part to even try to get him out of the lane, unlike some of the other heroes which can be played around to a certain extent...
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not to mention that Sand Storm makes last hitting with brood an absolute fucking hell...
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you forgot the part where the brood buys sentries against SK
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I don't really see how sand king does much better with farm than brood does
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Sand King does well vs brood but you're supposed to go Q and E in that lane. The 1v1 lane vs brood is like the only time Vanguard is decent on sandking.
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I hate playing against axe
crix you just buy detection and kill him but axe is more tedious
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On February 15 2015 01:35 Rawr wrote:
I don't really see how sand king does much better with farm than brood does
Neither do I, lol.
You can't just focus on the laning stage on its own; if you pick Sand King specifically to deal with brood, then you most often have to commit the ultimate to kill her later on. SK doesn't really have a good tool to deal with juking spiders either. Having a hero in your lineup pinned down to a single lane or a single enemy hero like this is certainly not good in most situations; in this case Axe does a much better job, since he can depush for a while, can catch and farm spiders with blink and still be useful elsewhere on the map with his 10s cd RP. I don't even think SK can shut her down well enough early to be able to stay in the lane alone against her later on.
So no, in my opinion the general answer to brood is not to stop her in the laning stage, but to keep her from going all out push against your T3 towers.
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because if you put points into Q and W, especiallt with higher ranks of SS, Spiderlings dont really do very much at all. And SK is much better at catching spiderlings pre blink dagger timings with burrow strike into SS. And SS can easily tp to help other lanes with Stuns just like axe does once she manages to get enough in the lane, ie a blink dagger.
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because if ur talking about catching spiderlings blink into burrow strike into max SS can easily clear out spiders just as fast if not easier than Axe's call. Besides it takes way more commitment to nuke SK out of lane in terms of detection and sentries, or what not.
Axe is significantly easier to kill than a SK pre blink dagger timing wise, because a SK has extremely high solo kill potential once he hits 6 with just burrow strike into ultimate. and extreme harass potential and even better at catching brood with just blink, burrow strike into SS.
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Because honestly, I feel SK is just as good if not better at depushing and even better at catching Brood out even though you have to commit an ultimate to kill her tho. Honestly, if you see an Axe, and you activate insatiable hunger right when he blinks in, assuming you are not caught completely off guard, you can probably out lifesteal the damage done. It is entirely different with SK, when the initation range is almost twice as far as axe's.
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I must also note that if u send mass spiders after SK, a simple lvl 2 burrow strike and lvl 2 SS will clear out all spiderlings. in the stun duration.
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You should play bristleback against brood
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I'm only a 3.2k player (just had a big leap up from 2.6k mmr as the last constant mmr) however 100+ games of brood.
Legion commander is the hardest counter to brood in the game i think. You only need level 5 with level 3 skill 1 and you can kill all the spiderlites (note: not the spiderlings but still the majority and the spiderlings will be dead within like 10 seconds.
Sand king is an ok counter to brood. Note: OK, not good. This is because you will constantly have a pushed lane vs. brood, so if they rotate a support down, the brood goes into your jungle at level 3 or 4 (depends on when he picks up his level 2 web) and then you are stuck with a carry with no farm.
If a brood does buy sentries at going to lane, like i do to counter the sentries you bring to lane then SK is food at lower levels. Yeah, that's cute with the level 4 combo, but if you try to not be in lane and jungle, then you'll get a slow few levels and brood will have taken your t1, wherein it stops being your jungle, and starts being hers. If you try to lane SK against brood then sk either;
-leeches xp till 4, in which time brood will have taken your t1
-Tries to setup some ganks with burrowstrike, wherein brood will just sic spiders onto you when you burrow in as you then have no escape.
-Tries to setup some counter push with DA RUDE, brood drops a sentry ward preemptively got to counter your sentries, and then kills you with a no spider build.
-leeches xp till level 2, uses sandstorm, then when above scenario plays out, burrow away, but level 1 burrow is the length of a china mans cock, so brood laughs at your pathetic attempt, and with ms 400ish at level 1, just runs you down under your tower.
Axe again, is an ok counter to brood. I'd not write home about it though, since when brood pops ulti your call becomes just holding brood in place for 5 seconds. With other hero's, since brood is squishy, e z kill but it NEEDS other heros.
Bristlefag is a terrible counter to any decent brood. A bad brood, yes it is a counter, but a good brood will move the spiders through the web and just attack your front slowing you. It's a counter insomuch as there is low kill potential.
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That reminds me. What happened to Sand King in competitive games?
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On April 14 2015 02:33 BoesFX wrote:
That reminds me. What happened to Sand King in competitive games?
He makes your lanes a little predictable, and most carries in this meta need the jungle when he should be clearing his big stacks. His pick rate isn't abysmal though. He was at 11.7% for 6.83, but he's down to 8.7% for just April (for comparison, he's just under Rhasta, and he's ahead of Lich, Ogre, Visage, and Bane).
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United States47024 Posts
The problem with LC is that if Brood plays properly you lose so hard before level 5 that the fact that Spiderites instantly die PtA doesn't matter. By that point Brood can jungle with her spiders and basically lane against you purely with her farm/XP advantage.
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LC loses hard to Brood 1v1. 1 level in passive will completely fuck LC up and as long as the Brood keeps spiders away from the lane it's hopeless.
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United States2186 Posts
Timber seems to be the best by far. Neither person can kill the other, brood can't push, and it's quite easy to kill spiders out of nowhere even if brood is jungling.
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EPT
