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On July 02 2014 13:36 Arisen wrote:
What is the rational behind shrapnel being the better skill build rather than the 2 passive max build; what does the shrapnel max gain you? I get that if you just max the passives you're more susceptible to people jumping on you and killing you, which i understand is gonna happen more the better players are. However, what are you really gaining by maxing shrapnel?
The article attributes the increased win rate primarily to the slow, which makes it harder for heroes to just walk up and hit sniper, and partly to the ability to chip down towers.
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On July 02 2014 15:01 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 13:36 Arisen wrote:
What is the rational behind shrapnel being the better skill build rather than the 2 passive max build; what does the shrapnel max gain you? I get that if you just max the passives you're more susceptible to people jumping on you and killing you, which i understand is gonna happen more the better players are. However, what are you really gaining by maxing shrapnel? The article attributes the increased win rate primarily to the slow, which makes it harder for heroes to just walk up and hit sniper, and partly to the ability to chip down towers.
Im pretty sure its 90% the tower damage. People really underestimate or dont consider the effects of you losing all T1s at an early stage of the game. A sniper maxing shrapnel can still farm well if he rotates around the map and takes them all down. The lost map control and extra tower gold to the enemy can easily make the game snowball from there. People tend to look too much at the scoreboard without realizing that they might be losing gold every minute due to the enemy farming more efficiently with their superior map control.
I think it's the same with Jakiros levling liquid fire. On paper its not necessarily the best to lvl (you miss out on both your stun and nuke!!! which for most supports are what you max first), but statistically it yields the best results.
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Personally with Liquid Fire, I find myself maxing it early in games that I can actually push and hit towers every 4 seconds, while in other games where I'm defending more I max my Q. So I think it might be more of a 'win more' situation than anything.
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I don't think I'd ever skip maxing out liquid fire by 7 anymore. 4s cd on a 150 dot nuke with 50% attack speed reduction? Tower pushing? Sign me up
Ice path scales kinda meh, dual breath gets expensive fast mana wise with about the same dps (with the slow yes)
I usually end up with 1-2-4-0 to 1-4-4-2 by 11, I feel like you can get 1 point in dual for utility but skipping out on the lower cd for liquid fire is a mistake in nearly every situation
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Anyone able to point out why Visage has really seemed to fall off in competitive play lately? It seems like a few months ago he was almost a default choice, but now we're not seeing so much of him.
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Short answer metagame shift. The way the game is played does play less to Visage's strengths.
I am no expert on this, neither am I actually informed, but one of my personal observations is the more peaceful trilanes than before.
In the "visage-meta" teams regularly abandoned the offlane or put only a select few heroes with good escapes on the offlane.
Nowadays heroes like Tidehunter and Centaur seem to be getting sent to offlane "because they're tanky".
2 years ago, roughly during TI2, Tide was a staple of the meta as an offlaner as well. Back then he got shifted out because tri lanes became more pressuring(killing almost every hero to enter the lane).
So that's a possible reason. Visage was good in putting pressure on offlaners, but that is not as important for the current meta.
There are also other things, like Visage had a softcounter to Naga's song of the siren. The familiars were unaffected and could stun Naga's team to disrupt their initiation.
edit: Naga has gotten less popular as well, of course. Or that bit about Naga wouldn't be relevant.
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Visage is best in tri vs tri situations because of his damage output, you rarely see trilanes go against each other anymore, same reason undying has pooped out of the game
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visage got nerfed, other heroes got buffed and with trilanes being less popular visage is less effective at killing/snowballing. hes also not the easiest support to play. also the fotm tinker doesnt help, march just wrecks the poor familiars.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
March killing familiars should be changed imo
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On July 02 2014 23:44 ahswtini wrote:
March killing familiars should be changed imo
Isn't March composite damage or something? If so it should stay the same. That is/should be the same reason it works with Sticky Napalm in ability draft.
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? the fact that it is universal damage or w/e has nothing to do with it working with sticky napalm.
The interaction is technically correct (unless march doesn't affect flying units in war3) but he's arguing that for balance sake it should change.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Composite is different to Universal damage. Composite is reduced by both magic resistance and physical damage. Universal damage is magic damage that is reduced by magic resistance but not blocked by magic immunity.
Not sure what it has to do with interacting with napalm.
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The only thing that doesn't work with sticky napalm is HP removal IIRC. So yeah, not exactly relevant.
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How do Assists work?
Suppose there's a gank on a Queen of Pain. Vengeful Spirit swaps her across the treeline, Silencer activates Global Silence to keep her from blinking, Drow Ranger activates Precision Aura from across the map, Outworld Devourer applies Scythe of Vyse as silence ends but never lands a right click and Visage familiars burst her down. Which heroes are credited with assists?
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On July 03 2014 02:16 Buckyman wrote:
How do Assists work?
Suppose there's a gank on a Queen of Pain. Vengeful Spirit swaps her across the treeline, Silencer activates Global Silence to keep her from blinking, Drow Ranger activates Precision Aura from across the map, Outworld Devourer applies Scythe of Vyse as silence ends but never lands a right click and Visage familiars burst her down. Which heroes are credited with assists?
You need to do damage to the hero to get the assist in the score.
That said, assist in the score screen is useless. Assist gold is given to every hero near the death, even if they are just standing there, and heroes outside the radius get nothing unless they get the kill.
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On July 03 2014 00:04 Sn0_Man wrote:
? the fact that it is universal damage or w/e has nothing to do with it working with sticky napalm.
The interaction is technically correct (unless march doesn't affect flying units in war3) but he's arguing that for balance sake it should change.
Normal magic damage doesn't work with sticky napalm, does it? Someone said that it was because of this and I believed.
And I understood, it is technically correct. And for me it is balanced either way.
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All of Batrider's abilities do normal magic damage.
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The only thing Sticky napalm specifically doesn't work with is radiance. In Dota 2 it's hard coded. In Dota 1 I believe sticky napalm actually just doesn't work with damage ticks below a certain value which radiance doesn't surpass.
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EPT
