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Lalalaland34503 Posts
On February 06 2013 09:10 Sephyr wrote:
The Stop command will make you act like a creep at times and like a normal hero at other times. Pretty sure it attacks the nearest creep if all aggro meters for the creeps are the same (including the range, sometimes melee creeps don't have the same aggro bar) but sometimes the aggro from the range creep is higher than the melee creep (due to the range creeps higher DPS) therefore the hero will stutter step and auto attack the range creep. If you notice this happening, just stutter step but A click onto the creep you wanna kill.
I'm 99% sure that dps doesn't affect the 'aggro meter' of a creep. The aggro from the ranged creep is higher than the melee creep only if the ranged creep attacks you while the melee creep is attacking other creeps.
This being my 10,000th post, I hope I'm not wrong. ^_^
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On February 06 2013 15:09 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 09:10 Sephyr wrote:
The Stop command will make you act like a creep at times and like a normal hero at other times. Pretty sure it attacks the nearest creep if all aggro meters for the creeps are the same (including the range, sometimes melee creeps don't have the same aggro bar) but sometimes the aggro from the range creep is higher than the melee creep (due to the range creeps higher DPS) therefore the hero will stutter step and auto attack the range creep. If you notice this happening, just stutter step but A click onto the creep you wanna kill. I'm 99% sure that dps doesn't affect the 'aggro meter' of a creep. The aggro from the ranged creep is higher than the melee creep only if the ranged creep attacks you while the melee creep is attacking other creeps. This being my 10,000th post, I hope I'm not wrong. ^_^
I'm not 100% sure either as I just thought because the range creep did more DPS it has a higher aggro bar (something I just took from WoW from when I used to play.)
It's like when 3 melee creeps attack the tower along with 1 range creep, the tower will attack the range creep after killing the first melee creep that hit it. Though that could be because the range creep was the second creep to hit it. I've never actually tried finding out because after playing so much you kind of just innately know how the creeps are gunna act without actually knowing if you know what I mean haha.
e: Grats on your 10,000 post :D
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On February 06 2013 18:49 Sephyr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 15:09 Firebolt145 wrote:On February 06 2013 09:10 Sephyr wrote:
The Stop command will make you act like a creep at times and like a normal hero at other times. Pretty sure it attacks the nearest creep if all aggro meters for the creeps are the same (including the range, sometimes melee creeps don't have the same aggro bar) but sometimes the aggro from the range creep is higher than the melee creep (due to the range creeps higher DPS) therefore the hero will stutter step and auto attack the range creep. If you notice this happening, just stutter step but A click onto the creep you wanna kill. I'm 99% sure that dps doesn't affect the 'aggro meter' of a creep. The aggro from the ranged creep is higher than the melee creep only if the ranged creep attacks you while the melee creep is attacking other creeps. This being my 10,000th post, I hope I'm not wrong. ^_^ I'm not 100% sure either as I just thought because the range creep did more DPS it has a higher aggro bar (something I just took from WoW from when I used to play.) It's like when 3 melee creeps attack the tower along with 1 range creep, the tower will attack the range creep after killing the first melee creep that hit it. Though that could be because the range creep was the second creep to hit it. I've never actually tried finding out because after playing so much you kind of just innately know how the creeps are gunna act without actually knowing if you know what I mean haha. e: Grats on your 10,000 post :D
Wrong. If you pay more attention, the reason for the tower hitting ranged creep is usually because the creeps from the tower side agro'd the melee creeps hitting the tower.
So the melee creeps goes and hit the creeps on the tower's side. But the ranged creep is out of range for agro so it continues to hit tower, hence tower hits it. If creeps continue hitting tower without interference tower will kill all melee creep first(it will also hit the creep nearest to the one it just killed,)
Or if you're one hero by the tower with creeps chasing you, tower will hit melee creeps first since they come in range first.
After that, sometimes ranged creep continues hitting tower instead of the hero, so tower hits back ranged creep(whatever is attacking it has highest agro, you see in pro games someone will hit the tower to take agro from a low health hero)
And of course right clicking hero in tower range agros tower.
I think its the same situation with your hero. If ranged creep is attacking you, it has agro so your hero will try to attack it once you stop spamming 'stop'.
On that note, does the 2 second rule apply for tower agro as well? I have only recently learnt of it.
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At what point in the game should you stop buying tangos/salves/claris? I.e When is it more cost effective to just use TPs to go back to fountain?
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On February 06 2013 20:22 Nazza wrote:
At what point in the game should you stop buying tangos/salves/claris? I.e When is it more cost effective to just use TPs to go back to fountain?
Well, technically it becomes more cost effective to use a TP if you would spend more than 135g on regen. In reality it depends on whether you can get gold/xp in the meantime without dieing, whether you need the TP cooldown in the next minute (huge thing for anyone who isn't first position usually) and how busy the courier is (have 2 lanes bottlecrowing?).
So, yeah. Especially considering the TP cooldown there are quite some scenarios where walking to fountain and back to lane can make sense.
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On February 06 2013 20:22 Nazza wrote:
At what point in the game should you stop buying tangos/salves/claris? I.e When is it more cost effective to just use TPs to go back to fountain?
After you get your 2nd or 3rd item. Almost every single "item build" incorporates some form of regeneration if not both. (Tranqs on most support and others, Wand on almost every hero, Aquilas on Agi carries, Soul Ring on a mix of Agi/Str/Sometimes INT heroes, and bottle)
The more you don't go to base the better. Don't hog the courier, but if you have only Mana or Life regen then bringing a few Clarities or Salves is normal. Weigh the cost/benefit, are you going to get more XP/Farm in a potentially available lane by bringing yourself regen items or is everything taken? How close are you to reaching your next impact item or skill?
I also recommend doing this post-teamfights regardless of what items you have. Again the more you stay outside the better, also leaves your TP cooldown available to be mobile on the map.
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On February 06 2013 20:22 Nazza wrote:
At what point in the game should you stop buying tangos/salves/claris? I.e When is it more cost effective to just use TPs to go back to fountain?
The preference is to have items that save you ever having to make fountain trips (Items like soul ring, tranquil boots, Linkens sphere, etc). Obviously after some teamfights you have to go back to base. It is also important to judge the possibility of you dying to a gank if you don't go back to regen (duh).
I generally try to avoid purchasing regen after my first 600 gold, but there are definitely lots of situations after that when it makes sense. The thing is, once you spend like 300 gold on salves or whatever it becomes way more efficient to just buy tranquil boots and use those for healing (plus armor, more movespeed, etc).
Mana is different, but flying yourself one clarity is often not enough mana to make a difference, and clarity regen is pretty slow.
Again, I often try to just farm Arcanes/Tranquils depending on my regen needs over just buying consumables.
PS: Are you who I think you are? If so, didn't know you were on TL.
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So my friends and I were recently playing a captain's mode game, and we had a LOT of trouble dealing with a support nyx assassin who just kept ganking our Luna all the time. So my question: if you're a Luna and you need farm and the other team has a nyx, what do you do? Do you have to stick with a support all the time?
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On February 07 2013 14:30 RuiBarbO wrote:
So my friends and I were recently playing a captain's mode game, and we had a LOT of trouble dealing with a support nyx assassin who just kept ganking our Luna all the time. So my question: if you're a Luna and you need farm and the other team has a nyx, what do you do? Do you have to stick with a support all the time?
Lane sentry so he can't surprise you. Depending on which support you have they can or can not save you though. If they only have one stun then nyx can carapace it so you need to auto him (which is gonna stun you) and then cast your stun before the carry is dead. If you have a no damage disable like Hex then you don't have to workaround though and can likely kill him as he's quite squishy.
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On February 07 2013 14:30 RuiBarbO wrote:
So my friends and I were recently playing a captain's mode game, and we had a LOT of trouble dealing with a support nyx assassin who just kept ganking our Luna all the time. So my question: if you're a Luna and you need farm and the other team has a nyx, what do you do? Do you have to stick with a support all the time?
Its good to play as a team against heroes who are good at picking off single heroes like NA, clinkz or storm. The easiest solution is to static a lane and ward where the NA would come from with a sentry so you can see him. If you're farming jungle you can have your supports ward it with sentry +obs to make it easier, or smoke gank him when he tries to kill you. If you kill him a few times when he tries to kill luna he'll give up and you'll have free(r)farm.
Another option is to play 5man dota, but some teams arent good for that, and NA is good at ganking and 5man.
basically yes, stick with a support or ward up so you can see him.
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Hi, I play Dota casually with my friends. One of my friends and I are much better than my other friends as we play more computer games in general. Due to the nature of our breaks and the fact that breaks do not always line up we end up playing dota with weird numbers such as 2v3. We use ARDM to even it out (ex. I random QOP, shitty friend gets spectre at start, we both suicide at rosh for a more even game). With that said, I really like winning so give me op ardm(om) builds.
TL;DR;FM--What are op ardm(om) builds for weird games (think 2v3)
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On February 07 2013 02:16 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 20:22 Nazza wrote:
At what point in the game should you stop buying tangos/salves/claris? I.e When is it more cost effective to just use TPs to go back to fountain? The preference is to have items that save you ever having to make fountain trips (Items like soul ring, tranquil boots, Linkens sphere, etc). Obviously after some teamfights you have to go back to base. It is also important to judge the possibility of you dying to a gank if you don't go back to regen (duh). I generally try to avoid purchasing regen after my first 600 gold, but there are definitely lots of situations after that when it makes sense. The thing is, once you spend like 300 gold on salves or whatever it becomes way more efficient to just buy tranquil boots and use those for healing (plus armor, more movespeed, etc). Mana is different, but flying yourself one clarity is often not enough mana to make a difference, and clarity regen is pretty slow. Again, I often try to just farm Arcanes/Tranquils depending on my regen needs over just buying consumables. PS: Are you who I think you are? If so, didn't know you were on TL.
Fair enough. I should buy consumables if I need to, but not if I almost have enough for the next regen item then.
PS: Yes. Aren't these BW icons awesome?
We've come a long way from dying to computer AI Linas/Lions/Centaur Warchiefs  .
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On February 07 2013 18:46 Nazza wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 02:16 Sn0_Man wrote:On February 06 2013 20:22 Nazza wrote:
At what point in the game should you stop buying tangos/salves/claris? I.e When is it more cost effective to just use TPs to go back to fountain? The preference is to have items that save you ever having to make fountain trips (Items like soul ring, tranquil boots, Linkens sphere, etc). Obviously after some teamfights you have to go back to base. It is also important to judge the possibility of you dying to a gank if you don't go back to regen (duh). I generally try to avoid purchasing regen after my first 600 gold, but there are definitely lots of situations after that when it makes sense. The thing is, once you spend like 300 gold on salves or whatever it becomes way more efficient to just buy tranquil boots and use those for healing (plus armor, more movespeed, etc). Mana is different, but flying yourself one clarity is often not enough mana to make a difference, and clarity regen is pretty slow. Again, I often try to just farm Arcanes/Tranquils depending on my regen needs over just buying consumables. PS: Are you who I think you are? If so, didn't know you were on TL. Fair enough. I should buy consumables if I need to, but not if I almost have enough for the next regen item then. PS: Yes. Aren't these BW icons awesome? We've come a long way from dying to computer AI Linas/Lions/Centaur Warchiefs .
I think a salve is worth it, if the 400 hp means you can stay decently safely in the lane. If not, then you might as well take a trip back to fountain and tp. Clarities I almost always avoid: it's time where you can't really be either agressive nor passive -your only real choice is being defensive OR roaming, in which case clarities make a lot of sense. If you have a mana intensive hero that "should" move around like ES, then a clarity makes a ton of sense, seeing as you'll be moving from lane to lane. If you're farming then a clarity only makes sense if you're not in any danger of having it taken off (a free lane but, then again, why do you need a clarity at such a time?).
SO - I'd say the following:
Ferry a salve if you're taking damage and staying in the lane with the help of salve makes sense or you'll potentially be taking damage and a slave makes sense in that regard. I.e. you're vs a bursty line-up that'll need two "cycles" to take you down.
Ferry a clarity if you're moving between lanes/warding as a support anyway or maybe you have some free time mid before you roam to either top or bot for a gank.
I think that makes sense, haha!
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On February 06 2013 19:08 yrt123 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 18:49 Sephyr wrote:On February 06 2013 15:09 Firebolt145 wrote:On February 06 2013 09:10 Sephyr wrote:
The Stop command will make you act like a creep at times and like a normal hero at other times. Pretty sure it attacks the nearest creep if all aggro meters for the creeps are the same (including the range, sometimes melee creeps don't have the same aggro bar) but sometimes the aggro from the range creep is higher than the melee creep (due to the range creeps higher DPS) therefore the hero will stutter step and auto attack the range creep. If you notice this happening, just stutter step but A click onto the creep you wanna kill. I'm 99% sure that dps doesn't affect the 'aggro meter' of a creep. The aggro from the ranged creep is higher than the melee creep only if the ranged creep attacks you while the melee creep is attacking other creeps. This being my 10,000th post, I hope I'm not wrong. ^_^ I'm not 100% sure either as I just thought because the range creep did more DPS it has a higher aggro bar (something I just took from WoW from when I used to play.) It's like when 3 melee creeps attack the tower along with 1 range creep, the tower will attack the range creep after killing the first melee creep that hit it. Though that could be because the range creep was the second creep to hit it. I've never actually tried finding out because after playing so much you kind of just innately know how the creeps are gunna act without actually knowing if you know what I mean haha. e: Grats on your 10,000 post :D Wrong. If you pay more attention, the reason for the tower hitting ranged creep is usually because the creeps from the tower side agro'd the melee creeps hitting the tower. So the melee creeps goes and hit the creeps on the tower's side. But the ranged creep is out of range for agro so it continues to hit tower, hence tower hits it. If creeps continue hitting tower without interference tower will kill all melee creep first(it will also hit the creep nearest to the one it just killed,) Or if you're one hero by the tower with creeps chasing you, tower will hit melee creeps first since they come in range first. After that, sometimes ranged creep continues hitting tower instead of the hero, so tower hits back ranged creep(whatever is attacking it has highest agro, you see in pro games someone will hit the tower to take agro from a low health hero) And of course right clicking hero in tower range agros tower. I think its the same situation with your hero. If ranged creep is attacking you, it has agro so your hero will try to attack it once you stop spamming 'stop'. On that note, does the 2 second rule apply for tower agro as well? I have only recently learnt of it.
O_O you're talking about a different situation to what I'm talking about. I never talked about creeps along with towers, you just added that in.
So do you have an explanation as to why when it's 3 melee creeps and 1 range creep that the tower switches to the range creep when there's still 2 melee creeps left and NO other creeps around?
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On February 08 2013 00:34 Sephyr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 19:08 yrt123 wrote:On February 06 2013 18:49 Sephyr wrote:On February 06 2013 15:09 Firebolt145 wrote:On February 06 2013 09:10 Sephyr wrote:
The Stop command will make you act like a creep at times and like a normal hero at other times. Pretty sure it attacks the nearest creep if all aggro meters for the creeps are the same (including the range, sometimes melee creeps don't have the same aggro bar) but sometimes the aggro from the range creep is higher than the melee creep (due to the range creeps higher DPS) therefore the hero will stutter step and auto attack the range creep. If you notice this happening, just stutter step but A click onto the creep you wanna kill. I'm 99% sure that dps doesn't affect the 'aggro meter' of a creep. The aggro from the ranged creep is higher than the melee creep only if the ranged creep attacks you while the melee creep is attacking other creeps. This being my 10,000th post, I hope I'm not wrong. ^_^ I'm not 100% sure either as I just thought because the range creep did more DPS it has a higher aggro bar (something I just took from WoW from when I used to play.) It's like when 3 melee creeps attack the tower along with 1 range creep, the tower will attack the range creep after killing the first melee creep that hit it. Though that could be because the range creep was the second creep to hit it. I've never actually tried finding out because after playing so much you kind of just innately know how the creeps are gunna act without actually knowing if you know what I mean haha. e: Grats on your 10,000 post :D Wrong. If you pay more attention, the reason for the tower hitting ranged creep is usually because the creeps from the tower side agro'd the melee creeps hitting the tower. So the melee creeps goes and hit the creeps on the tower's side. But the ranged creep is out of range for agro so it continues to hit tower, hence tower hits it. If creeps continue hitting tower without interference tower will kill all melee creep first(it will also hit the creep nearest to the one it just killed,) Or if you're one hero by the tower with creeps chasing you, tower will hit melee creeps first since they come in range first. After that, sometimes ranged creep continues hitting tower instead of the hero, so tower hits back ranged creep(whatever is attacking it has highest agro, you see in pro games someone will hit the tower to take agro from a low health hero) And of course right clicking hero in tower range agros tower. I think its the same situation with your hero. If ranged creep is attacking you, it has agro so your hero will try to attack it once you stop spamming 'stop'. On that note, does the 2 second rule apply for tower agro as well? I have only recently learnt of it. O_O you're talking about a different situation to what I'm talking about. I never talked about creeps along with towers, you just added that in. So do you have an explanation as to why when it's 3 melee creeps and 1 range creep that the tower switches to the range creep when there's still 2 melee creeps left and NO other creeps around?
Because the ranged creep is closer to the tower. It happens all the time when your support is pulling in the safe lane.
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United States47024 Posts
If your mana is low midgame, clarities are a good investment if there's a lull in the action and you're just farming a lane. Not like an enemy is going to break your clarity if you're solo farming a lane like that.
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On February 08 2013 00:36 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 00:34 Sephyr wrote:On February 06 2013 19:08 yrt123 wrote:On February 06 2013 18:49 Sephyr wrote:On February 06 2013 15:09 Firebolt145 wrote:On February 06 2013 09:10 Sephyr wrote:
The Stop command will make you act like a creep at times and like a normal hero at other times. Pretty sure it attacks the nearest creep if all aggro meters for the creeps are the same (including the range, sometimes melee creeps don't have the same aggro bar) but sometimes the aggro from the range creep is higher than the melee creep (due to the range creeps higher DPS) therefore the hero will stutter step and auto attack the range creep. If you notice this happening, just stutter step but A click onto the creep you wanna kill. I'm 99% sure that dps doesn't affect the 'aggro meter' of a creep. The aggro from the ranged creep is higher than the melee creep only if the ranged creep attacks you while the melee creep is attacking other creeps. This being my 10,000th post, I hope I'm not wrong. ^_^ I'm not 100% sure either as I just thought because the range creep did more DPS it has a higher aggro bar (something I just took from WoW from when I used to play.) It's like when 3 melee creeps attack the tower along with 1 range creep, the tower will attack the range creep after killing the first melee creep that hit it. Though that could be because the range creep was the second creep to hit it. I've never actually tried finding out because after playing so much you kind of just innately know how the creeps are gunna act without actually knowing if you know what I mean haha. e: Grats on your 10,000 post :D Wrong. If you pay more attention, the reason for the tower hitting ranged creep is usually because the creeps from the tower side agro'd the melee creeps hitting the tower. So the melee creeps goes and hit the creeps on the tower's side. But the ranged creep is out of range for agro so it continues to hit tower, hence tower hits it. If creeps continue hitting tower without interference tower will kill all melee creep first(it will also hit the creep nearest to the one it just killed,) Or if you're one hero by the tower with creeps chasing you, tower will hit melee creeps first since they come in range first. After that, sometimes ranged creep continues hitting tower instead of the hero, so tower hits back ranged creep(whatever is attacking it has highest agro, you see in pro games someone will hit the tower to take agro from a low health hero) And of course right clicking hero in tower range agros tower. I think its the same situation with your hero. If ranged creep is attacking you, it has agro so your hero will try to attack it once you stop spamming 'stop'. On that note, does the 2 second rule apply for tower agro as well? I have only recently learnt of it. O_O you're talking about a different situation to what I'm talking about. I never talked about creeps along with towers, you just added that in. So do you have an explanation as to why when it's 3 melee creeps and 1 range creep that the tower switches to the range creep when there's still 2 melee creeps left and NO other creeps around? Because the ranged creep is closer to the tower. It happens all the time when your support is pulling in the safe lane.
Huh? How can the range creep be closer than the melee creeps that are melee'ing the tower..?
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
When you pull the creeps past the tower, the melee creeps will be next to you/other things while the ranged creep will be next to the tower.
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At this point, if you don't have a replay we're going to get nowhere. Tower aggro works a certain way and unless there is some obscure bug that rarely happens you ran into then this is incredibly pointless.
My best explanation is now that a hero used a long range skill to aggro the melee creeps. Since the ranged creep was still attacking the tower and the melee creeps are now aggroed onto that hero it attacked the ranged creep.
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On February 08 2013 00:36 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 00:34 Sephyr wrote:On February 06 2013 19:08 yrt123 wrote:On February 06 2013 18:49 Sephyr wrote:On February 06 2013 15:09 Firebolt145 wrote:On February 06 2013 09:10 Sephyr wrote:
The Stop command will make you act like a creep at times and like a normal hero at other times. Pretty sure it attacks the nearest creep if all aggro meters for the creeps are the same (including the range, sometimes melee creeps don't have the same aggro bar) but sometimes the aggro from the range creep is higher than the melee creep (due to the range creeps higher DPS) therefore the hero will stutter step and auto attack the range creep. If you notice this happening, just stutter step but A click onto the creep you wanna kill. I'm 99% sure that dps doesn't affect the 'aggro meter' of a creep. The aggro from the ranged creep is higher than the melee creep only if the ranged creep attacks you while the melee creep is attacking other creeps. This being my 10,000th post, I hope I'm not wrong. ^_^ I'm not 100% sure either as I just thought because the range creep did more DPS it has a higher aggro bar (something I just took from WoW from when I used to play.) It's like when 3 melee creeps attack the tower along with 1 range creep, the tower will attack the range creep after killing the first melee creep that hit it. Though that could be because the range creep was the second creep to hit it. I've never actually tried finding out because after playing so much you kind of just innately know how the creeps are gunna act without actually knowing if you know what I mean haha. e: Grats on your 10,000 post :D Wrong. If you pay more attention, the reason for the tower hitting ranged creep is usually because the creeps from the tower side agro'd the melee creeps hitting the tower. So the melee creeps goes and hit the creeps on the tower's side. But the ranged creep is out of range for agro so it continues to hit tower, hence tower hits it. If creeps continue hitting tower without interference tower will kill all melee creep first(it will also hit the creep nearest to the one it just killed,) Or if you're one hero by the tower with creeps chasing you, tower will hit melee creeps first since they come in range first. After that, sometimes ranged creep continues hitting tower instead of the hero, so tower hits back ranged creep(whatever is attacking it has highest agro, you see in pro games someone will hit the tower to take agro from a low health hero) And of course right clicking hero in tower range agros tower. I think its the same situation with your hero. If ranged creep is attacking you, it has agro so your hero will try to attack it once you stop spamming 'stop'. On that note, does the 2 second rule apply for tower agro as well? I have only recently learnt of it. O_O you're talking about a different situation to what I'm talking about. I never talked about creeps along with towers, you just added that in. So do you have an explanation as to why when it's 3 melee creeps and 1 range creep that the tower switches to the range creep when there's still 2 melee creeps left and NO other creeps around? Because the ranged creep is closer to the tower. It happens all the time when your support is pulling in the safe lane.
You're both wrong. =P
In that scenario the ranged creep catches tower aggro because it's attacking the tower while the melee creeps fight each other.
+ Show Spoiler +
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lgDjG.png)
