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On February 04 2013 23:06 Mosoball wrote:
We have recently ran Tinker with march build mid. The problem our team has noticed is following: Tinker gets good farm but our aggressive trilane, that is usually 2-4 -0 against their defensive one, gets wrecked through the rotations of the opposing mid (QoP, Invoker, etc.). We often even have wards but those don't see tps coming in. Is the key better warding or is this just an inherit weakness of march-tinker?
Yeah March Tinker isn't meant for ganking aggressively, more of farming ancients extremely quickly and defending. But the problem you encounter isn't something any mid can help with. It seems to be because 1. no lane ward to spot incoming TP 2. lack of communication.
Aggressive trilane is weak against mid ganks in general so its important to call missing mid immediately.
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You are playing clockwerk in a solo side lane with a mid on your team that is bottle reliant. What do you get early/mid game for mana regen? I have been getting a bottle anyways but I'm not sure if it is the most efficient way to go.
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bottle and/or arcanes
i think i usually get both and go mek, haven't played him in a while tho
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bottle crow solves all problems.
or you could try tranq/soul ring. more expensive but gives you good sustain without having to use the crow all the time or take runes from your mid.
but then again popping a soul ring to use 1 rocket seems overkill
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Have your mid take bot rune or top rune depending on which off-lane you're playing and you split rune control. If one or neither don't get runes, simply bottle crow.
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Is there any farming hero who doesn't need either a farming tool (e.g. battlefury, radiance, maelstrom) or blink dagger who it is a mistake to get drum on?
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define "farming hero" and define "mistake"
wr is usually farming, so is storm, qop, brood, etc
and you can buy drums on qop/wr/w.e and it works okay but it's generally not that good
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On February 05 2013 14:14 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Is there any farming hero who doesn't need either a farming tool (e.g. battlefury, radiance, maelstrom) or blink dagger who it is a mistake to get drum on?
I'm assuming you mean heroes that can 'flash farm' without these farming tools and since you said farming hero I'll assume carries mostly.
Drow Ranger. lul. Luna(aura gives pretty good damage, think 44 at max, then glaives for aoe later on). Hmm. PL can still farm quite well with just tranq/aqulia or basileus/diffusal so long as you got the levels in illusions. Clinkz do pretty ok after level6 if you have decent mana regen. SF is pretty decent as well. Lifestealer don't need much items to farm well but I think he's not as good a flash farm hero compared to the likes of Luna PL imo. I guess huskar as well?.. Not too knowledgeable on huskar sorry. Centaur can farm pretty well if you have high health regen. Just spam that double edge everywhere(yea he's not really a carry or farm dependant hero but you can use him to farm pretty fast if noone else is doin it)
Edit: It might do well to rephrase your question, not really clear on what you're asking for
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Well I mean the question as generally as I asked it. From reading about item builds a lot it seems like drum is highly recommended on a lot of heroes, and I'm trying to understand the item (ie when it's smart to buy).
By farming I mean not 4/5 supports basically.
So of your examples: windrunner usually farms forcestaff and mek for her team and is used mostly for her utility; so I agree drum wouldn't be a great pick-up initially since she needs those items; but if she ends up with gold after buying them, is it still bad to get drum? Queen of pain almost seems to me like a hero who could benefit from drum. Why is drum not smart on her? Storm desperately needs regen, which drum doesn't offer; so I agree it wouldn't be smart on him. Broodmother is primarily a pusher, and drum doesn't really augment that functionality on her, so I agree there too.
edit: So I'm asking what heroes drum is bad for. A support who can't afford anything after wards/dust etc can't afford drum, so I'm not asking about them. A hero like antimage who desperately needs battlefury just to farm the manta he desperately needs to be useful also can't afford drum, so I'm not asking about them.
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On February 05 2013 14:14 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Is there any farming hero who doesn't need either a farming tool (e.g. battlefury, radiance, maelstrom) or blink dagger who it is a mistake to get drum on?
Sven or naix, for example, generally don't need any items to farm reasonably well. Most of the fastest farmers require a farming related item though (eg. am, naga)
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On February 05 2013 15:01 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Well I mean the question as generally as I asked it. From reading about item builds a lot it seems like drum is highly recommended on a lot of heroes, and I'm trying to understand the item (ie when it's smart to buy).
By farming I mean not 4/5 supports basically.
So of your examples: windrunner usually farms forcestaff and mek for her team and is used mostly for her utility; so I agree drum wouldn't be a great pick-up initially since she needs those items; but if she ends up with gold after buying them, is it still bad to get drum? Queen of pain almost seems to me like a hero who could benefit from drum. Why is drum not smart on her? Storm desperately needs regen, which drum doesn't offer; so I agree it wouldn't be smart on him. Broodmother is primarily a pusher, and drum doesn't really augment that functionality on her, so I agree there too.
edit: So I'm asking what heroes drum is bad for. A support who can't afford anything after wards/dust etc can't afford drum, so I'm not asking about them. A hero like antimage who desperately needs battlefury just to farm the manta he desperately needs to be useful also can't afford drum, so I'm not asking about them.
You have the wrong idea about drums. It's more of an item for roaming gankers/supports who need some HP/MS boosts plus it's 4x ability of extra MS speed. Carries generally don't need it unless they benefit from the extra HP/MS/AS they get from drums like probably SB, Invoker, BH and so forth. The thing here is that although those heroes can be classed as carries, they generally aren't used in that way. SB, Invoker, BH and other heroes that use drums usually need them for ganking and so forth.
Drums works quite well early on in the game since it's cheap and effective. You can't get drums on a hero like QoP because she would be better off spending that 1725 gold or whatever on something else like Perseverance which would work towards Linkins or spend that 1725 on working towards Scepter etc.
Back to the core question: There aren't many heroes who can flash farm without an item like BFury, Manta, Radiance etc since these items augment the ability to flash farm on these heroes (BFury AM, Manta Drow, Rad PL, Manta Medusa etc).
I guess Alcy is a hero who does good without any items due to his passive but yeah lol, he does so, so much better with Rad/Mealstorm or other items that augment his farming ability.
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iG.Zhou always gets drum on Luna, who is already fast. It gives health yes, but less than a vitality booster would e.g. for less gold. I don't disagree that the item is good on Luna; but I don't see how the explanations for why it's good on her aren't applicable to almost every other hero.
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On February 05 2013 16:12 Nightmarjoo wrote:
iG.Zhou always gets drum on Luna, who is already fast. It gives health yes, but less than a vitality booster would e.g. for less gold. I don't disagree that the item is good on Luna; but I don't see how the explanations for why it's good on her aren't applicable to almost every other hero.
Because every hero isn't the same therefore every item has a different value to every hero? Drums doesn't just give HP, it also gives MS and AS. But you wouldn't get it on an AM because he would need to get his BFury/Manta/Heart up first, neither would you on an SK because he needs his Armlet, BKB/Deso, or whatever else.
You really need to understand what drums does to certain heroes and how well the item compliments the hero in the time you get that item.
You also need to understand that every hero values certain items differently. Some items really compliment that hero whilst other items aren't exactly.. the best. You could say this'll eventually lead to cookie cutter builds, but with the patches constantly buffing or nerfing heroes, this reshuffles (sometimes) the way heroes value certain items.
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Is there a MMR system in DotA2 beta? WHen i hit play>matchmaking>find a match am I playing on some sort of ladder?
I'm getting matched with a lot of people who don't want to communicate or really better themselves and I want to know if there's a way to play with more serious players
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Playing with more serious players = winning more, performing good and have a good winrate. Probably best option is to play premades. And yes there is MMR system but You can't check it ^^
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On February 05 2013 18:36 Arisen wrote:
Is there a MMR system in DotA2 beta? WHen i hit play>matchmaking>find a match am I playing on some sort of ladder?
I'm getting matched with a lot of people who don't want to communicate or really better themselves and I want to know if there's a way to play with more serious players
Yup, it's all there. MMR and all that, but it's just hidden. Maybe in the future they'll release it but atm they've hidden it. If you want to move up in MMR then unfortunately you need to slug it out in the lower bracket games for a while till' the MMR thinks you're good enough for higher skilled game play.
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On February 05 2013 16:12 Nightmarjoo wrote:
iG.Zhou always gets drum on Luna, who is already fast. It gives health yes, but less than a vitality booster would e.g. for less gold. I don't disagree that the item is good on Luna; but I don't see how the explanations for why it's good on her aren't applicable to almost every other hero.
If that drums would be a Yasha, Luna would farm faster. If that drums money would go towards BKB her teamfight would be stronger but also a couple of minutes later.
Drums (and more specifically the Drums/Aquila combo) is a way to get super cost efficient stats very quickly, allowing you to pressure against greedy builds and stay on top of other similar aggressive builds. The big huge BUT to this build is that if you can't accomplish anything meaningful with it (towers, won teamfights) it would have been better to go for a more farmy item or a teamfight item that kicks in later.
If you sit on Tranq/Aquila/Drums and don't do anything meaningful with it for 10 minutes you might as well have been working on BKB and Manta instead. Or the Aquila/Drums could have been a HotD and you could be about to clear your 5 ancient stacks.
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On February 05 2013 15:25 tauon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 14:14 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Is there any farming hero who doesn't need either a farming tool (e.g. battlefury, radiance, maelstrom) or blink dagger who it is a mistake to get drum on? Sven or naix, for example, generally don't need any items to farm reasonably well. Most of the fastest farmers require a farming related item though (eg. am, naga)
Sven and naix should get drums tho. But i think you misunderstood his question :p
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Greetings my fellow dream builders of TL.
I am asking this because, I am always losing in pubs as Invoker, and trying to do something about it, to improve that.
While playing Exort Invoker I go this build early: Quas - R - Exort - Exort - Exort - Wex - R - Exort - Quas - Quas - Quas, for 2 forge spirits asap, then I max Exort and after that Quas.
Early I use Cold Snap + Sunstrike to try a kill in mid, or global gank with Sunstrike.
After level 11 I always have my spirits out, and still use this to initiate in team fights: Forge spirits out, I have ice wall and Sunstrike invoked, after I throw that I use cold snap? Is that correct, or I should alread use Meteor around level 11? How do you combo around level 11 in teamfights? Do I even have to use that 1 wex tornado for initiation?
Later in the game with maxed quas exort and some points of wex, I initiate like this:
Meteor - and throw Blast right before Meteor lands. I have my spirits out before fight. After blast I try to land Ice wall and than Cold snap. Correct play?
I think I should include tornado only If my teammates cannot initiate.
About the build: Is it correct to go max E, after that max Q and than wex, or should I max E, and level quas and wex at the same speed.
So Is it me, or I don't have luck with teammates?
My latest matches are here: http://dotabuff.com/players/60247682/matches
thanks
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EPT
