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On January 09 2013 15:03 theaxis12 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 13:37 TheYango wrote:On January 09 2013 13:31 theaxis12 wrote:
I feel that the denial of xp and gold from the creeps killing your wave is the most important part of pulling because their carry needs farm, and as a support you can get buy without it. Whenever I have a stack that mauls the creeps I just keep pulling until they die without auto attacking except for the last hits. I love it when a stack can eat 3 waves of creeps or more, but be careful because your opponents are almost forced to fight you for the creeps at that point (which is also really good because that is just about as far from their tower as they can get). The thing is, if you manage your pulls properly, it should never be either-or whether it kills the creep wave or you kill the stack. If you manage the camp's HP and the creep wave's HP properly you can always have them just about kill each other off at the same time. Never killing the neutrals and always having the creep wave die is also inefficient because the neutrals never respawn. The most efficient way is to have the two die more or less at the same time, which is definitely doable. I definately see your point, and I guess I just need to work on my pulling skills because I almost never have them kill each other. XD This reminds me of a question I had about how to go about doing multi camp pulls because I always seem to time the second pull wrong. Are there any tips or tricks to chaining your pull from camp to camp?
The best thing you can have is the neutrals respawn while you are denying your own creeps with nothing inside the neutral spawn box xD some luck involved but is doable on some type of creeps, tips is your aggro timing and killing those ranged little satyr at the right timing etc.
The trick in chain pulling is dont be greedy on last hitting the last two neutrals (just let them go bro~), stay in the exp range of the dying neutrals but in position to aggro the next creep camp, go aggro when your last creep is at around 60% hp, for smaller creeps you may even need to aggro before the second last neutral die (like the orange/blue trolls).
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United States47024 Posts
The timing is also slightly different depending on which camps you're pulling from/to based on the distance.
Personally I think the Sentinel double pull is easier, but this could just be because I'm used to it.
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The Sentinel double pull seems a bit easier to me too, because you have to pull the neutrals a shorter distance
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On January 09 2013 23:51 Qbek wrote:
For KOTL it's 100 per second of charge. For WR it's proportional to channel time, from 0 to max damage , each 0.01 sec of charge is 1% damage I THINK
Powershot damage maxes out at 60% charge time = .6 sec
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On January 10 2013 11:00 MSGHero wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 23:51 Qbek wrote:
For KOTL it's 100 per second of charge. For WR it's proportional to channel time, from 0 to max damage , each 0.01 sec of charge is 1% damage I THINK Powershot damage maxes out at 60% charge time = .6 sec
I think that's because there is a .4s cast time that is also counted?
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On January 10 2013 12:16 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 11:00 MSGHero wrote:On January 09 2013 23:51 Qbek wrote:
For KOTL it's 100 per second of charge. For WR it's proportional to channel time, from 0 to max damage , each 0.01 sec of charge is 1% damage I THINK Powershot damage maxes out at 60% charge time = .6 sec I think that's because there is a .4s cast time that is also counted?
It was in the most recent dota2 mythbusters. If you cancel it when it's 60% charged, it does full damage.
Ever since my first game of cm, I've been having trouble playing the other modes. I expect a courier and wards. If there are no wards on the map, I play like crap. It affects me psychologically to the point where I can't even get last hits. If there's no courier, I don't even know what to do, especially if I'm mid. Aside from playing support or buying your own set of wards and losing exp by placing them, how do you guys deal with the lack of organization in all pick and other modes?
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If your allies are bad enough to not get wards or courier then your enemies should be bad enough that you can still succeed as your team's mid hero or carry if you just buy them yourself. Just focus on individual improvement until you get your mmr to the point where everyone understands their role and the supports get wards and courier.
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They understand that we need wards: they don't buy any. It's not so much that I'm at a low mmr (I don't think I am ~800 games), the guy who supports is just a dick, or everyone randoms after I buy my items and no one gets wards.
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Ok, how the heck are you supposed to play Bfury carries? Getting a fast Bfury is not a problem, i can usually get it 13 - 16 mins in (varies with how many towers are down) if I have a decent support on lane, but after that I just can't seem to find the space to farm properly. My usual farm pattern post Bfury is:
-> enemies don't push => push lane -> jump to jungle -> back to lane;
-> enemies push => split push like a mad man since I feel I'm useless before I get up at least 1-2 more big items.
The issue is that somehow I lose momentum at some point due to a gank (lack of vision/smoke + somewhat greedy play) while farming my second big item, and the team does not seem to handle 4v5 situations after 20 mins in the game.
I would love some input please.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 10 2013 15:41 akatama wrote:
Ok, how the heck are you supposed to play Bfury carries? Getting a fast Bfury is not a problem, i can usually get it 13 - 16 mins in (varies with how many towers are down) if I have a decent support on lane, but after that I just can't seem to find the space to farm properly. My usual farm pattern post Bfury is:
-> enemies don't push => push lane -> jump to jungle -> back to lane;
-> enemies push => split push like a mad man since I feel I'm useless before I get up at least 1-2 more big items.
The issue is that somehow I lose momentum at some point due to a gank (lack of vision/smoke + somewhat greedy play) while farming my second big item, and the team does not seem to handle 4v5 situations after 20 mins in the game.
I would love some input please.
The biggest part that people screw up on Battle Fury carries is recognizing fights that they can actually TP to and win.
You can't choose to ditch your team on principle. While a lot of the time, pub teams get caught, it's just as often that the other team will get antsy from your split-push and initiate sloppily. While it is true that you are poor at defending pushes and are not that useful in the opening part of a teamfight, you still actually do a lot of damage, and once the initial round of spells have been blown, you often have a lot of room to start doing damage and cleaning up kills.
You have to be able to judge which fights to go to, and which ones you can't. It's not good enough to ditch your team on principle. Especially since playing that way makes you fed, but your team gets poorer and poorer, meaning you getting caught once means your team has no way back because no one else is farmed enough to bring the game back if you lose your momentum.
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I have no issue coming to a fight after the initiation and after the first round of AoE spells has been thrown. If I come before that the enemy team either disengages (if they haven't initiated yet) or get slaughtered by nukes due to my low health pool (if I go in before the first round of AoE).
The problem is that the team often gets wiped during that initial round and by coming in I do nothing but stop any possible trades and maybe even give away a kill.
Maybe I should be looking at more raw stats in my skill build, but strangely enough I don't feel comfortable going for a stat heavy build. It feels safer to just get another hero that peaks earlier (at the cost of late game power) and compensate for that with a doom push to get a gold advantage on the supports (since you won't be able to outfarm the split-pushing Bfury carry in any way shape or form).
Ill try to post some replays the next time I play such a hero if I do, maybe some advice on actual games would help more.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 10 2013 16:08 akatama wrote:
The problem is that the team often gets wiped during that initial round and by coming in I do nothing but stop any possible trades and maybe even give away a kill.
If this is the case, then what I said is true. The rest of your team is already so far behind that you dying once is essentially tantamount to losing the game.
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some more questions by me:
1. does reflect dmg (blade mail or nyx skill) go through bkb?
2. does stun/silence stop spells like batriders rope thing?
3. why is undying baned in almost every competitive game in the first ban phase?
thanks a lot 
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On January 10 2013 17:33 WladimirUN wrote:some more questions by me: 1. does reflect dmg (blade mail or nyx skill) go through bkb? 2. does stun/silence stop spells like batriders rope thing? 3. why is undying baned in almost every competitive game in the first ban phase? thanks a lot
1. Nope, when BKB is active you wont get damaged.
2. It doesnt stop the spells, once cast they are active. It stops channeling spells however, like enigmas ulti.
3. Undying has a massive slow & damage potential due to his skills, he can heal and gank very good, and when used by a pro player, is nasty to counter.
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On January 10 2013 16:08 akatama wrote:
I have no issue coming to a fight after the initiation and after the first round of AoE spells has been thrown. If I come before that the enemy team either disengages (if they haven't initiated yet) or get slaughtered by nukes due to my low health pool (if I go in before the first round of AoE).
The problem is that the team often gets wiped during that initial round and by coming in I do nothing but stop any possible trades and maybe even give away a kill.
Maybe I should be looking at more raw stats in my skill build, but strangely enough I don't feel comfortable going for a stat heavy build. It feels safer to just get another hero that peaks earlier (at the cost of late game power) and compensate for that with a doom push to get a gold advantage on the supports (since you won't be able to outfarm the split-pushing Bfury carry in any way shape or form).
Ill try to post some replays the next time I play such a hero if I do, maybe some advice on actual games would help more.
You know your stuffs there and is good that you have some rough idea what should you look at in future so keep doing some trial and errors until you find what hero/playstyle suits your better.
The other thing is communication with your team. Tell your team not to fight at X tower or go gank as 4 or just def until you get items etc. Make sure they know that you cant be with them 24/7 (because you need to farm) and they need to fight wisely by considering if you would arrive in time to help. Playing a carry is basically about being the 'big bro' in the team, you win game regardless how shitty the team does but in higher level game you cant win without teamwork.
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How as a team do we ensure that our carry has a free lane to farm in the mid to late game. I saw several gleague matches where this occurred I think around the 15 to 30 min mark maybe earlier. Do we threaten to gank and push? Why doesn't the opposing team go and kill the free farming carry?
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On January 10 2013 17:33 WladimirUN wrote:some more questions by me: 1. does reflect dmg (blade mail or nyx skill) go through bkb? 2. does stun/silence stop spells like batriders rope thing? 3. why is undying baned in almost every competitive game in the first ban phase? thanks a lot
Undying is very good in offensive trilane due to his tombstone and decay. Aka tanky hero capable of early towerdiving and punching your weak nuts (due to decay)
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On January 10 2013 20:57 taldarimAltar wrote:
How as a team do we ensure that our carry has a free lane to farm in the mid to late game. I saw several gleague matches where this occurred I think around the 15 to 30 min mark maybe earlier. Do we threaten to gank and push? Why doesn't the opposing team go and kill the free farming carry?
Threatening with trades is the best thing to do. Make them choose between chasing/killing your carry and protecting their own carry/towers. Always remember if they do kill your carry they should have to blow some big spells in order to secure the kill, so if you take the trade (again, it doesn't matter if it's towers or enemy carry) and then TP back chances are you will be able to catch some stragglers.
Still it is only a part of the full story. In the end it depends on team composition and how well each side scales into the lategame. Obviously the team with the better lategame composition will win if the game drags on. Note that it is not only about who has the hardest carry, but team synergy should also be considered.
A farmed up Void is scary not only because he is hard to kill and deals damage, but a great Chrono can turn a fight gone bad to a 5-to-nothing engagement. The team with such composition is better off being in a more defensive position (hold towers).
On the other hand AM is a weaker late-game carry on his own and does not have any interesting team synergy (maybe with Naix if we talk about them in a vacuum, but that is not the point). His greatest strength comes from his ability to quickly farm after he gets his Bfury up. If you are up against him I would consider slowing down his farm rate to be more important, since his niche role is to get a huge gold lead and then simply push with the team to end it before the other team catches up.
In the end the whole game revolves around trades. You trade farm (gold and xp) on heroes who do ok without it to those who scale much better with plenty. If you let the enemy get away with something without getting anything else in return you fall behind. There is no clear answer. That is why you sometimes get in these weird scenarios where both teams move around the map looking to catch the other team off-guard.
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Thanks for the answer.
Why do pros lane ward the safe lane?
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United States47024 Posts
On January 11 2013 02:58 taldarimAltar wrote:
Thanks for the answer.
Why do pros lane ward the safe lane?
In order to track the movement of the enemy off-laner and protect the safe lane from TP ganks.
The carry is going to be freezing the lane right in front of his tower, so unless you lane ward, you're not going to have vision of the enemy tower or the entrance to your jungle from the lane.
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EPT
