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On June 10 2015 01:07 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 00:54 hariooo wrote:
well i enjoyed being able to split push during downtime but without the support of your blue background i really didn't wanna argue on the internet about it.
what's ur thoughts on maxing shuriken now? I kinda like just going 0421 if I'm chilling in their jungle since it's so much more sustainable. dunno if new bouncing shurikens are that valuable how can you not like new bouncing shurikens? it effectively lengthens the range of your shuriken toss by 1200 range as u can throw it at a creep and it'll still bounce to a tracked hero
of course I like it lol. just in terms of value.
if you don't get a kill it's a lot of mana wasted and while the upfront burst is good in conjunction with other nukes, dps over a 10-15 second engagement evens out or is in favour of the crit build.
it's highly dependent on the game of course but it feels so much smoother to never go back to the fountain and have a constant map presence
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On June 10 2015 01:19 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 01:07 ahswtini wrote:On June 10 2015 00:54 hariooo wrote:
well i enjoyed being able to split push during downtime but without the support of your blue background i really didn't wanna argue on the internet about it.
what's ur thoughts on maxing shuriken now? I kinda like just going 0421 if I'm chilling in their jungle since it's so much more sustainable. dunno if new bouncing shurikens are that valuable how can you not like new bouncing shurikens? it effectively lengthens the range of your shuriken toss by 1200 range as u can throw it at a creep and it'll still bounce to a tracked hero of course I like it lol. just in terms of value. if you don't get a kill it's a lot of mana wasted and while the upfront burst is good in conjunction with other nukes, dps over a 10-15 second engagement evens out or is in favour of the crit build. it's highly dependent on the game of course but it feels so much smoother to never go back to the fountain and have a constant map presence
You should get at least a value point for the ministun and the damage when it's maxed are huge. You should be rushing manaboots btw.
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On June 10 2015 01:33 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 01:19 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2015 01:07 ahswtini wrote:On June 10 2015 00:54 hariooo wrote:
well i enjoyed being able to split push during downtime but without the support of your blue background i really didn't wanna argue on the internet about it.
what's ur thoughts on maxing shuriken now? I kinda like just going 0421 if I'm chilling in their jungle since it's so much more sustainable. dunno if new bouncing shurikens are that valuable how can you not like new bouncing shurikens? it effectively lengthens the range of your shuriken toss by 1200 range as u can throw it at a creep and it'll still bounce to a tracked hero of course I like it lol. just in terms of value. if you don't get a kill it's a lot of mana wasted and while the upfront burst is good in conjunction with other nukes, dps over a 10-15 second engagement evens out or is in favour of the crit build. it's highly dependent on the game of course but it feels so much smoother to never go back to the fountain and have a constant map presence You should get at least a value point for the ministun and the damage when it's maxed are huge. You should be rushing manaboots btw.
Ministun is very situational. Like I said burst damage is fine but it depends on if you expect assassinations or drawn out fights. I still like phase more =| though I guess if you have no other natural arcane carriers you might as well.
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United States47024 Posts
Max Jinada can be fine if you're playing offlane BH vs. a melee carry, it's way more useful for laning than Shuriken.
On June 10 2015 01:19 hariooo wrote:
if you don't get a kill it's a lot of mana wasted and while the upfront burst is good in conjunction with other nukes, dps over a 10-15 second engagement evens out or is in favour of the crit build.
The big assumption here is that you get to use Jinada on cooldown, which is really questionable early game because your base HP is not that high and with offlane or support farm, you can't just run straight in and get Jinada attacks off in larger fights.
It really depends on the game but for the most part if the game moves to full-on fights, Jinada max ends up not being useful because unless you get farmed and can boost your HP or get a major item up you kind of just dance around the edge of the fight keeping Track on every enemy and throwing Shurikens from a safe spot. You only really get to use Jinada toward the end of the fight once spells are used and you can run in and safely use the Jinada slow. Otherwise if you just right straight in and start right-clicking someone, you're gonna get some random nukes thrown at you and instantly die without doing anything.
For games that don't move to larger fights that quickly, Jinada ranks can be worth it because it is a stronger laning skill and makes a significant contribution to ganks without using mana.
Also again, BH this version is mostly support more than offlane, so your level development usually isn't fast enough that you can afford to max Jinada first (because without solo lane XP, it's pretty certain that larger fights will break out before you can get level 10/11).
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Is there ever an offlane case where maxing E would be better than Jinada? I understand the level 2 value point but how exactly does E scale compared to Jinada?
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United States47024 Posts
Their scaling isn't really comparable. Jinada's outright better in combat situations (it gains more damage per rank at all ranks once you have 120+ damage), but the fade time/duration improvements for Shadow Walk give you more flexibility using it when moving around the map. You kind of have to exercise some judgment there.
For these kind of incomparable skills, you don't actually necessarily have to commit to maxing one before leveling the other. It's not uncommon to be 4-1-2 and somewhat rarely 4-1-3 before you level Jinada. 4-1-4 is really excessive.
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Lets say I wanted Skadi on my Shadow fiend at some point. Would it be bad to get it before Buterfly? I feel like I dont have enough attack speed to slow someone effectively with just Shadow Blade and Manta.
But maybe its just my imagination and Skadi just isnt as amazing on ranged heroes as it is on melee.
Edit: Nvm I overestimated skadi slow.
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the nerf to ranged skadi was intended to force you to attack one target continuously to keep that target slowed. That still works with treads skadi lol, much less with manta + shadowblade. If you really feel like you can't stick on a target, go sny instead of manta.
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for what it's worth, skadi used to be considered a luxury 6th slot item, after butterfly satanic
last patch, for reasons, it started becoming an early pickup, but knowing the history can inform your decision making. this patch a lot of chinese players have gone back to butterfly satanic (after sny, which used to be manta)
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whats a good way to get an ultra kill (4 consecutive kills)?
how fast do you have to get the kills?
im guessing i play pa
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spec is prolly most reliable
crit rapier kunkka, ember, gyro, dusa, sniper
zeus, huskar
18 seconds, but it refreshes each kill iirc
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On June 11 2015 06:28 FFGenerations wrote:
whats a good way to get an ultra kill (4 consecutive kills)?
how fast do you have to get the kills?
im guessing i play pa
My first rampage was with Witch Doctor
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On June 11 2015 06:28 FFGenerations wrote:
whats a good way to get an ultra kill (4 consecutive kills)?
how fast do you have to get the kills?
im guessing i play pa
PA sounds good
you can do it with just whatever carry like slark or spec or sven or something as long as you are farmed and deal the most damage of the team
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On June 11 2015 06:39 FHDH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2015 06:28 FFGenerations wrote:
whats a good way to get an ultra kill (4 consecutive kills)?
how fast do you have to get the kills?
im guessing i play pa My first rampage was with Witch Doctor
This mostly. Supports crap out damage at the points in the game where killing 4 heroes in a row is semi reasonable. I'm sure I've done that as Visage without trying too too hard.
It's either that or play the super late game hard carry and hope it works out.
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I remember back in the earlier days of dota when there were no ultra kills and rampages and the announcer would continue to say triple kill even at the 4th and 5th kill.
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when euls had 6 charges and built into sheepstick could you cyclone your allies?
part of me thinks that it was the case but I don't actually trust myself lol
(haven't set up my windows machine at my new place or I'd just load up Dota1 and test it..)
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I particularly remember a Shadow Shaman Ultra kill in one of my early games....
Which wasnt a rampage because I was being the good guy and and properly used Hex -> Shock+Right click -> Shackle until team finishes him off on the 5th guy and didnt get a kill on him. I didnt even notice my wards got an ultra kill meanwhile, too caught up in using my other spells. So 3/4 spells ended up being used on the guy who I didnt kill.
Lesson learned: Be that guy and shackle until low health and snipe the kill with your shock! 
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On June 11 2015 06:28 FFGenerations wrote:
whats a good way to get an ultra kill (4 consecutive kills)?
how fast do you have to get the kills?
im guessing i play pa
Play with a mag on your team, the good RP + empowered crit should occur at one point or the other.
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I'm still scratching my head on specific situations when you NEED to build Lotus Orb. Any ideas (other than reflecting Doom)? Linkens still seems to be more reliable since you don't need to cast it before use (and can still give the shield to allies).
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On June 11 2015 16:14 Velitation wrote:
I'm still scratching my head on specific situations when you NEED to build Lotus Orb. Any ideas (other than reflecting Doom)? Linkens still seems to be more reliable since you don't need to cast it before use (and can still give the shield to allies).
I don't really know. I'd love to use it against Bloodseeker though. I hear you like running around super fast? Well, check this out...
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EPT
