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United States47024 Posts
On February 09 2015 08:05 FFGenerations wrote:
tread orchid bkb heart deso
If you're going 3rd item defensive, you may as well get Skadi or Satanic and then Crit/MKB after. Deso is strongest if you're in a position to get it quickly after a BKB. By 4th item it's already losing its luster.
Desolator is strongest midgame when enemy armor values are not high yet. As a lategame orb, it's not that effective in combat compared to other options, lifesteal in particular (though it retains effectiveness for hitting buildings).
In most cases though, you don't have to get a defensive item 3rd, and can get Sheep or a DPS item, since your BKB duration will still be high at that point.
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On February 09 2015 08:10 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2015 20:20 Jisira wrote:On February 08 2015 10:16 FFGenerations wrote:
edit: does shrapnel damage towers? i thought someone said it doesnt anymoer
edit2: never knew the ancient doesnt have backdoor protection... we just lost because a wisp portalled someone to our ancient and they just rightclicked it down, no creeps near our base...(only mid rax and towers was down) First off - Sniper's Shrapnel does not damage buildings. They changed that around. Secondly, the ancient does have BDP. However, BDP is off until ~15-20 seconds after the last opposing creep has died in your own base. Until then there is no BDP. It's 15 seconds. There may be some small amount of linger time based on corpses disappearing. .. holy shit who remembers when it was finally changed so you could stack while the corpses were in the jungle creeps? Was the worst feeling ever. Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 07:38 Darpa wrote:
How do you not make QoP useless in the mid-late game.
I find I have two stages.
1. Early game, where I wreck face
2. Late game - 5-6 slot, wreck face.
But i struggle with doing any damage in the mid game 20-30mins. I mean her auto attack does absolutely nothing until you stack damage or stats. I typically go for Linkens or Orchid first, then Aghs. This usually takes me until about 25 minutes. After this point, there is a good 5-15 minutes where my spells really dont do much damage because everyone has so much HP, and I cant auto attack for any damage until I basically completed a skadi + Chrysalis. I just feel like a walking Ultimate and thats it.
How do I make myself do damage? what should I be building? If you go for linken's your autoattack will be really weak on pretty much anyone (it's like 5k gold for ~20 damage). Aghs makes that condition even worse Treads +Orchid, then MKB or BKB depending on the situation with 1-2 null talismans just for the damage output. That was burning's 6.75 build for QoP, now that aghs doesn't even clear creep waves it seems like a poor item in almost every scenario. MKB's ministun is surprisingly good on QoP due to her good agi gain and the itemization path taken to it (treads + orchid is quite a bit of attack speed). In addition MKB's parts are actually surprisingly cost-efficient, and crit relies on your normal right click damage to be high enough to justify getting it, especially over MKB (it used to be 188 was the number, not sure since they nerfed it to 240 instead of 270%). And that's overlooking that mkb gives qop sniper's passive practically. Skadi doesn't suck on QoP, but a scythe before that is usually considerably better. And another reason why your right clicks would suck with the build you described is that skadi's buildup is atrocious with the 2 ultimate orbs. (Mid-endgame treads->orchid->bkb->mkb->scythe). I guess I'm basically saying make an MKB most games if you want to maximize QoP's right click potential (deso is probably going to be more cost-effective but if it does go late game then you will be against butterflies and want a skadi/lifesteal combo orb instead of the deso) The deso build is pretty good too, you can usually find out what is decent by browsing through some of the top players dotabuff history on a hero. Here's s4, a fan of desolator. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/41231571/matches?date=&faction=&hero=queen-of-pain&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration=edit - after reviewing some more players, the standard four items seem to be treads-orchid-bkb-scythe, then the other items all vary (i'm ignoring the dagon/eth blade players because you asked about right click) Also LD's qop thread is http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-strategy/460986-hero-queen-of-pain . It was a simple question but the answer wasn't really simple - this thread moves fairly fast and you will probably have better luck with your question in the official QoP thread
Thanks! This is an awesome reply. I didnt realize the implications of what I was buying.
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satanic sounds good, never thought about it. the heart made me invulnerable after steamrolling off the fast bkb (and hence huge damage since you just afk rightclicking forever) and the deso was fast damage to end the game fast. ill try satanic next time, should be the best of both worlds and even faster end to the game
oh it only gives +20 dmg, thought it was a lot more
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On February 09 2015 09:39 FFGenerations wrote:
satanic sounds good, never thought about it. the heart made me invulnerable after steamrolling off the fast bkb (and hence huge damage since you just afk rightclicking forever) and the deso was fast damage to end the game fast. ill try satanic next time, should be the best of both worlds and even faster end to the game
oh it only gives +20 dmg, thought it was a lot more
It gives that +20 damage really early though, that's a carryover from HoTD. Which is a pretty cost-efficient item even before being upgraded to a satanic, especially if you actively use creeps (HotD isn't quite as efficient as phase boots, but it's not that far off and adds 5 armor +3 hp regen and a useful active).
This is not to say that there aren't times when a heart is better than a satanic (vs lockdown + burst you probably need the heart), HotD/Satanic are much better vs physical damage than the heart typically is. Sort of slot efficiency - You need a 3.2k item to make either a heart or a Satanic, but in HotD vs Vit booster the HotD wins out quite a lot of the time.
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On February 09 2015 09:39 FFGenerations wrote:
satanic sounds good, never thought about it. the heart made me invulnerable after steamrolling off the fast bkb (and hence huge damage since you just afk rightclicking forever) and the deso was fast damage to end the game fast. ill try satanic next time, should be the best of both worlds and even faster end to the game
oh it only gives +20 dmg, thought it was a lot more
I feel like unless you're having problems with HP regen that 3rd item skadi is going to be superior to 3rd item satanic.
Satanic gives you +20 damage, 475 hp, 5 armor, and a lifesteal active
Skadi gives you +25 damage, +25 attack speed, 725 hp, 3.5 armor, and a slow active
My intuition is that with no items to boost your auto-attack other than orchid/treads, your right-click isn't going to be good enough to really make the satanic shine, whereas the bkb-piercing MS and AS slow from skadi seems very good for kiting and chasing down targets--also, the slow helps your entire team, not just you. In addition, Skadi gives superior right-clicking stats and comparable tankability.
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United States47024 Posts
I suggested both as examples, but really the situation where you want your 3rd major item to be a primary defensive item is pretty rare. Usually after BKB, it's more common to get a DPS item, Sheep, or Shiva's. The times where you'd be choosing between Heart, Skadi, or Satanic for your 3rd major item are sufficiently rare as to make it hard to generalize about which one is better. You'll pick between them based on the game.
The other point I was making was that if you did choose to get a defensive 3rd item, by the time you get your 4th item, Deso is usually not going to be the best one. Deso's relative strength is higher the earlier you get it, because -armor is more compelling against targets with lower armor. By the time you get to your 4th major item, it's somewhat unlikely for it to outperform MKB because most carries will already have high armor and potentially be getting an evasion item.
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How does being dead when you score a kill (e.g. with Leshrac's Diabolic Edict) affect the rewards you get from that kill?
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On February 09 2015 18:32 Hertzy wrote:
How does being dead when you score a kill (e.g. with Leshrac's Diabolic Edict) affect the rewards you get from that kill?
You get the gold bounty but no exp*
Any allies near the kill will get the full exp as if you weren't there
Allies near the kill will get the full kill assist gold as if you weren't there (your team actually gets more gold if the killer is outside the assist gold aoe, because although they didn't "assist", they still count as one of the heroes in the area when the game calculates assist gold)
*unless you have bloodstone
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Hello there !
Since I'm trying to get back into DotA2 after over half a year break, I'm looking for some answers. What were the big changes that happened recently? I've watched DAC so I know about the Roshan Pit change. I know about the heroes that got ported (Oracle, Phoenix and Terrorblade). Someone mentioned about the Economy Gold change? Also tower glyph change? Is there any place I can read about all of recent changes, instead of reading all of the patch threads that happened for the past 6 months?
Also why there is still no AA item set? :O
And one of the most important questions : Smartcasts. How do you set them in DotA2? Since I forgot, do you have to make your own config file, or is it doable in in-game options? I've played League Of Legends for the last few months, so that's why I'm asking.
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glyph resets after any t1 goes down. nowadays u get more gold/sec than u used to. U can adjust ur hotkeys in the game to smartcasts (quickcasts in game i think), no need for .cfg
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
So we're talking about quickcast that shots a chosen spell in the place/hero you hover with mouse, am I rite? That's good you can do it in game instead of editing .cfg.
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quickcast in options
you might want to set your autoexec file to this + Show Spoiler +bind "a" "dota_player_units_auto_attack 0;mc_attack"
bind "s" "dota_player_units_auto_attack 1;dota_stop"
bind "d" "dota_player_units_auto_attack 0;dota_hold"
dota_force_right_click_attack "1"
dota_minimap_ping_duration "2"
dota_minimap_misclick_time "0"
you now get insane xp/gold for killing a hero higher level than you
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Is this change making A-click being disabled and instead you just right click to AA?
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
you just assign a certain key combination to quickcast certain abilities/items, so for example you can hit Q to normal cast a spell, or Alt+Q to quickcast it. Both will work and it means you can use whatever you want without needing to toggle quickcast on or off.
It makes more sense when you look at it in the Options menu
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force right click attack allows u to deny without pressing 'a' first, like u last hit enemy creeps.
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Alrighty, I think I have an answer to most important questions, thanks a lot guys. Gotta play some normal games once I get back from work, installed DotA2 in the morning, let's see if I'm gonna play more than 1 game, lol.
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Actually I don't. I'm more into Axe than Jugger ^^
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
well you're in luck, axe is a pretty good check to the all-common pub jugg
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Also question about Oracle, because I've never played her/him before. Is it any good? Being played as support or other position?
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EPT
