Request: Camp size & tower range

On October 06 2012 07:52 JeeJee wrote:
edit: you can play around in dota yourself, use the createhero <whatever> enemy command to make a controllable enemy hero, give yourself a bunch of wards (-item item_ward_observer), and -spawnneutrals your way to victory.

There isn't really any particular tricks to this, the neutrals you'll ward most often are the medium pull spots. Scourge has a large advantage here, because one deward can counter all possible ward places at the scourge pull. At sentinel this is not the case.

For scourge pull warding -- most of the time you either place it above the camp, so you can see into the lane and sideways,
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or you place it right below the camp at the light, so you can see the way from river
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Sadly, both of these, as well as any other ones, e.g. inside the trees to the right) are dewarded by this ward:
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which is just a bit to the left.

For sentinel pull, the situation is hilarious:
Firstly, there's the magic bush which you can use to block the hard spawn and the medium spawn at the same time
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Then, the spawn area for the camp is so huge, it's impossible to deward easily. Basically the borders are:
Magic bush on the left
Slightly below road on the bottom
The juke spot on the right
and the tree line at the top (very near to spawn)
Here's a shitty outline:
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Unlike scourge, here you also have the potential to usefully ward inside the trees (you can ward inside the trees on scourge pull too, but it will be dewarded by the same ward anyway, and you're just losing vision)
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And you can ward below the camp to see into the lane using the juke spot like so:
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It's impossible to deward magic bush + these 2 spots at the same time, that said, my favorite dewarding spot is this one:
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because it catches the tree ward, the usual "right-in-the-camp-spawn" ward, and the rune ward.

Good luck

On October 06 2012 10:41 castled wrote:
Thanks for the awesome post JeeJee. I was wondering how the mechanics work behind camp spawning.

As you explain there seems to be a manually defined "spawn block area" for each camp, and if there is a ward in that area the spawn will be blocked (and the area is unrelated to vision). Is this area the same for pulling creeps for stacking (i.e. creeps need to be removed from that area)?

Heroes in the area don't block creep spawns, instead that seems to be based on vision?

What's the deal with ward vision of camps blocking them? In some cases it clearly doesn't, but others it does? Maybe I'm just not sure of the limits of the spawn block area for wards.

On October 06 2012 16:35 BurningSera wrote:
Awesome post there JeeJee! I am actually write another guide that I am going to reference you for for warding part Also, is there a command to kill the created ward? I'd like to do some testing myself too.

On October 06 2012 21:38 MrCon wrote:
Ha, found it !

Radiant tower range clues :
http://imgur.com/a/tiQC1#0

Dire :
http://imgur.com/a/UMGYD#0

And there are also clues for most (all ?) creep camps, eg :

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