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United States47024 Posts
On March 06 2015 04:58 Varth wrote:
The primary weakness of shotgun morph is that you have to be mostly morphed into agi, leaving your hp VERY low and so you are insanely vulnerable to burst. Add that to being a short ranged carry and you die insanely quick to decent players. Linkens blocks the first disable or nuke that allows you to wave/ult/morph away when they focus you, that no other item offers except for bkb which is even more clunky on morph (still viable though of course, but you don't want bkb in your first couple items)
That's not really the primary weakness of Shotgun at all. Even keeping a reasonable amount of Str, you still have really high burst damage. Shotgun isn't going to unnaturally force you to morph more Agi than necessary.
There are other issues with EBlade first, but that isn't one of them.
On March 06 2015 00:09 nojok wrote:
You can't say no linken, no shotgun. Sometimes pros go straight shotgun and skip linken entirely.
Straight EBlade is really game dependent. It's really good if you're winning or the enemy team has targets that you can use the early burst damage to threaten and develop the game. But the weaker ability to take risky farm that Linken otherwise affords you hurts in games where you can't make that kind of threat.
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A lot of issues with eblade first...
You will have lvl 1-2 adaptive when u finish it...
no sustain whatsoever
everytime u shotgun a squishy guy (support or poor core) u go to 0 mana and have to ulti out or something and go base and come back... not worth
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 06 2015 07:58 ChunderBoy wrote:
A lot of issues with eblade first...
You will have lvl 1-2 adaptive when u finish it...
no sustain whatsoever
everytime u shotgun a squishy guy (support or poor core) u go to 0 mana and have to ulti out or something and go base and come back... not worth
So what about (midas)-travels/treads-eblade with bottle? I mean, the question is about you having a good start, where you can easily go for greedier build, and let's be honest, linkens utility is rather situational.
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midas + bots is really questionable
morphs a pretty mediocre laner so u really need a couple small items (treads, bottle/sr, roa generally) to actually win ur lane
morphs mana is pretty awful if u skip linkens, basically requires constant fountain trips
on slahser's build the wraith roa wand bottle help a lot with controlling ur lane and managing ur mana
and then he gets bots so he can go back to fountain constantly
im really liking hotd + sr + roa + treads > eblade. ive tried bots but treads are way too good on morph
bots are amazing too but it really kills ur laning unless u get a bunch of small items like slahser
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 07 2015 08:42 Dead9 wrote:
midas + bots is really questionable
morphs a pretty mediocre laner so u really need a couple small items (treads, bottle/sr, roa generally) to actually win ur lane
morphs mana is pretty awful if u skip linkens, basically requires constant fountain trips
on slahser's build the wraith roa wand bottle help a lot with controlling ur lane and managing ur mana
and then he gets bots so he can go back to fountain constantly
im really liking hotd + sr + roa + treads > eblade. ive tried bots but treads are way too good on morph
bots are amazing too but it really kills ur laning unless u get a bunch of small items like slahser
Well, i skipped mentioning small items, but yeah, i totally get roa or 2 wraiths before midas/BoTs . As for mana, bottle + some runes solve it.
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On March 07 2015 16:48 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2015 08:42 Dead9 wrote:
midas + bots is really questionable
morphs a pretty mediocre laner so u really need a couple small items (treads, bottle/sr, roa generally) to actually win ur lane
morphs mana is pretty awful if u skip linkens, basically requires constant fountain trips
on slahser's build the wraith roa wand bottle help a lot with controlling ur lane and managing ur mana
and then he gets bots so he can go back to fountain constantly
im really liking hotd + sr + roa + treads > eblade. ive tried bots but treads are way too good on morph
bots are amazing too but it really kills ur laning unless u get a bunch of small items like slahser Well, i skipped mentioning small items, but yeah, i totally get roa or 2 wraiths before midas/BoTs . As for mana, bottle + some runes solve it.
runes are hard to get, bottle crowing is not convenient in new patch
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Do you still get bottle, beesa?
Are there situations where you would skip Linkens?
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On March 08 2015 14:31 Belisarius wrote:
Do you still get bottle, beesa?
Are there situations where you would skip Linkens?
bottle depends on whether i think it wud be worth it or not in current game.
u cud possibly skip linkens but that means ure already losing rly hard
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Solo offlane morphling into support works when you have a dumb jungler pick. Their supports will probably rape with their early game rotations against your solo support. And few offlaners can win against jugg/troll anyway after getting zoned out early. So might as well go full greed, lose lanes, win game.
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This offlane max stun Morph thing is actually pretty stupid. Im winning more than losing with it, had another random in my team doing it to great effect too. Saw Bulldog try it once on stream too. Its too early to call viable/OP obviously but it's surprisingly effective. You dont have the issue of you being a shit support too if you try to run it as that. You can neither zone offlaners well nor gank. But in offlane you can just sit there and waveform/str-morph to survive, get Tranqs and you're good. Then from lvl 7-8 something you have a beastmaster roar every 10sec.
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I can see support morph being viable. LGD tried it but i think they played it wrong, you need to give lane space to get the basic items (tranq and soulring) and some xp with a carry that can transition into jungle after they get couple of lvls like Lycan or when your carry get MoM to transition into jungle for a while like most of them are doing it now.
Offlane support morph kinda seems like a waste in the current meta.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 09 2015 19:55 SkelA wrote:
I can see support morph being viable. LGD tried it but i think they played it wrong, you need to give lane space to get the basic items (tranq and soulring) and some xp with a carry that can transition into jungle after they get couple of lvls like Lycan or when your carry get MoM to transition into jungle for a while like most of them are doing it now.
Offlane support morph kinda seems like a waste in the current meta.
I mean, the thing is that you can probably do something like lane morph in offlane and then shift him into ward bitch role essentially, or use him to farm up blinks, hexes and stuff if you are playing against illusion carry. After all you need to give him some farm (as little as that is) and he does nothing to little useful in laning stage.
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On March 09 2015 19:55 SkelA wrote:
I can see support morph being viable. LGD tried it but i think they played it wrong, you need to give lane space to get the basic items (tranq and soulring) and some xp with a carry that can transition into jungle after they get couple of lvls like Lycan or when your carry get MoM to transition into jungle for a while like most of them are doing it now.
Offlane support morph kinda seems like a waste in the current meta.
Nah. They did it wrong by picking a lineup that doesn't make use of the 4s stun well at all.
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Just pick lycan troll with Support morph
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 10 2015 01:44 Thetwinmasters wrote:
Just pick lycan troll with Support morph
What about drow-visage strats? So, you automatically have a support being an actual core so offlane morph can easily turn into support after laning, solve no-damage problem of morphling and provide a way to push people away from drow.
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I've played this for the past 9 games and went 5-4. I would have done better if I didn't have imbeciles on my team all the time who give up when some hero is played in a unconventional way. I think it's actually more viable than playing it is a carry right now.
The pros of the build are pretty obvious. You get insane control and you are a meatshield for towers/spells. Having a hugely tanky support gives the enemy team one less person to pick off, so it makes snowballing harder for them. I think it's more important to note some weaknesses.
1. Your armour is ridiculously low so you die surprisingly fast to right clicks. I played vs sniper almost every game and it was hit and miss. He can destroy you but your long range 4.25s stun can also ruin his day.
2. Your early game is really bad. You can do waveform into knockback once before you're totally out of mana at which point you're just a barely-ranged creep.
3. You really want a fast euls, but you have no way to farm it. You can't even weaken creepwaves for waveform easily unless you morph a decent amount of agi, which requires a fountain trip. I think this is the biggest problem and the reason why offlane > support. Having an offlaner who does no damage is kind of bad though.
4. If your team is too passive you will miss your window, which is pretty much as soon as you hit level 10.
In an ideal world you get level 10 and then your cores come with you and wreck anybody who comes close enough to get stunned. I think this is the best time to get your euls gold by taking all the towers. You're then pretty useful for high ground pushes because you can tank the tower and disable 2 people straight away. Stun the one you want to kill and euls the most dangerous of the remaining targets.
Not sure what to build after euls also. I've been going for shotgun but it's so luxury that if you get it the game is almost certainly over anyway. Maybe a forcestaff for extra initiation range/messing up their carries positioning. Or a vlads if it suits the game.
Playing with drow definitely helps btw. As a support it's much better if you're laning with a ranged carry, and if you initiate with your stun it knocks them away from you so it's just easier for a ranged hero to follow up than a melee hero. Also gives you damage to harass or get creeps if you're offlaning.
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blink is far more important on supp morph than euls
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On March 13 2015 23:33 juracule wrote:
blink is far more important on supp morph than euls
Yup.
Basically after Blink you don't need any other items. If you do have gold coming your way though, you just get whatever utility items that fits the game. Eul is common. Halberd is an option. Force Staff is always good. You could get auras or whatever.
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Only way I'd go blink before Euls is if I had a reliable teammate who had arcanes, and I'm 3.6k. I've never had a reliable teammate in my life.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 14 2015 00:04 bardtown wrote:
Only way I'd go blink before Euls is if I had a reliable teammate who had arcanes, and I'm 3.6k. I've never had a reliable teammate in my life.
You go tranquils->soul ring->blink (first 2 are subject to swap). Soul ring and stick provide you enough mana for whole game, unless you actively farm with waveform.
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EPT
